How many more Grafts for Widow's Peak ?

[Mickey85]

Spanker your comments always come as a respite :-) I will reply to mickey85 comments in a little detail later. But Frankly your comment brought a smile on my face :-)

 

Just be cautious as you may be taking my post on face value ie because it says what you want it to say, you like it. But delve deeper into it and you will see that I really do recommend people to try and be content with their lives and enjoy what you DO have. I really REALLY wish someone said that to me but I probably would not have listened anyway given that I am headstrong and think I know better.

 

Bottom line is, if you feel surgery will improve your confidence and life and that you need to have better hair, then a procedure with a great surgeon will not look detectable. If you are not too fussed about the whole thing, enjoy your life and spend the money on a well deserved holiday in a tropical destination.

[augustya]

Ok guys let me put this straight without beating too much around the bush. Yes I feel I need hair at the empty corners of my forehead I feel that will change my look and just fill in the gap which I have always felt but never really too much bothered.

 

I am most likely planning to do it with Dr.Bhatti what are my chances of ending up with a Artifical "Doll" like hairline ? Any straight confident answers to my this statement ? Dr.Bhatti = Artificial Hairline yes or no ?

[Mickey85]

If your surgeon uses fine single-hair grafts in the hairline, then the appearance will not be un-natural.

[Questionmark]

Hi Augustya,

 

just wanna say sorry I you felt offended or sth., I guess it was a prime example of a misunderstanding from beginning til the end! Forgiven?

 

To be quite frank, if I would have to critizise anything about Dr. Bhattis work, it would be the hairline design. Of course every doc takes his own approach, but I personally like the hairlines of Dr. Konior and Dr. Diep (to Mickey: It`s about the hairline here only ;-)) for example. Dr. Bhatti rather does a straight line, not a zick-zack-line or some little convexities or sth.

 

But I am sure, if you explicitly ask him to take an approach as you wish, he will be the last to ignore that and not put the patients wish into practice. Perhaps you can show him some example pictures or so. So again: Just talk to him, he won`t bite your head off ;-)

[augustya]

If your surgeon uses fine single-hair grafts in the hairline, then the appearance will not be un-natural.

 

 

This is getting interesting what do you mean by single hair grafts in the hairline ?

[augustya]

Hi Augustya,

 

just wanna say sorry I you felt offended or sth., I guess it was a prime example of a misunderstanding from beginning til the end! Forgiven?

 

To be quite frank, if I would have to critizise anything about Dr. Bhattis work, it would be the hairline design. Of course every doc takes his own approach, but I personally like the hairlines of Dr. Konior and Dr. Diep (to Mickey: It`s about the hairline here only ;-)) for example. Dr. Bhatti rather does a straight line, not a zick-zack-line or some little convexities or sth.

 

But I am sure, if you explicitly ask him to take an approach as you wish, he will be the last to ignore that and not put the patients wish into practice. Perhaps you can show him some example pictures or so. So again: Just talk to him, he won`t bite your head off ;-)

 

Not having a Artificial Hairline is the, the important thing for me, I thought you were the first very few supporters of Dr. Bhatti talking about Dr.Bhatti's good work and now you saying that Dr.Bhatti is not as good as others with the Hairline this is really making me very very scared and nervous about doing it with him now, Not Having a "Doll" like hairline is the very important thing for me !! Your this statement has shaken my decision which till now I had almost finalised in the last 1-2 days. It is giving me shivers with the idea of Hair Transplant now.

 

I was with the first Surgeon who I still think and feel is better than Dr.Bhatti atleast in India but is like Crazy expensive $ 3.5 for a hair graft, so even he adopts the zig-zag approach of placing the slits and hair grafts so as to not end up having a "Artificial Hairline" I am stone shocked when you say that Bhatti does not have this approach I strongly feel that is the key thing (The. Zig Zag approach) to avoid not having a Artificial Hairline and he does not have this approach ?? Whoa :eek: that is scary man ! that really is getting scary !! :eek: again making me confused !! You see now I am really getting frustrated reading and visualising all this, making me go mad on should I be even doing a HT or not there are too many complications guys, then to get the right Dr, who has the right approach blah...blah...:eek: I think I will go mad till the end of this.:rolleyes:

[Questionmark]

I`m out for good now, but will still be reading this funny thread. I mean, Augustya, are you trolling or really having all those fears? If so, I would advise you just to get into consultation with Dr. Bhatti to perhaps calm you down, if he won`t be capable to do so, I would advise you to visit anotgher surgeon or stay away from hair transplants in general. I wish you all the best!

[augustya]

I`m out for good now, but will still be reading this funny thread. I mean, Augustya, are you trolling or really having all those fears? If so, I would advise you just to get into consultation with Dr. Bhatti to perhaps calm you down, if he won`t be capable to do so, I would advise you to visit anotgher surgeon or stay away from hair transplants in general. I wish you all the best!

 

FYI I have already had a telephonic conversation with Dr.Bhatti but we did not talk about anything that you talk about here. I don't know every time you come here divert the topic and then say that we'll, you did not mean it and then you tell me I am trolling. I guess you will do me a favour not commenting here because you make things sound more sarcastic and complicated then be genuinely advising anything.

[Mickey85]

This is getting interesting what do you mean by single hair grafts in the hairline ?

 

Surgeons use the singlehair grafts in the hairline to mimic natural hairlines. The use of 2 or 3-hair grafts would result in an un-natural look.

[augustya]

Surgeons use the singlehair grafts in the hairline to mimic natural hairlines. The use of 2 or 3-hair grafts would result in an un-natural look.

 

I genuinely don't know this, may sound naive but clarifying for people who accuse me of trolling. So one hair Graft can have more then 2-3 Hair Follicle right ? (And hair follicle is different from Hair strand or is it the same)

 

So having one hair graft with one hair follicle is one approach of not having it but how about placing the slits isn't that also equally important like adopting the zig-zag approach and not placing the slits in one symmetrical line that is very important right ?

[Mickey85]

Champ, I advise you to read my Hair Transplant Basics thread in my signature, it explains alot of things in great detail.

[1978matt]

Your this statement has shaken my decision which till now I had almost finalised in the last 1-2 days. It is giving me shivers with the idea of Hair Transplant now.

 

Mate, why the big rush to book a Hair Transplant? Take your time. Most people research for at least 6 months. Many for a lot longer.

 

Just keep reading other threads and websites, looking at before/after photos, seeing what is possible etc.

[augustya]

Any idea if Dr Bhatti uses a single hair graft in the frontal area and if he uses a zig zag method of planting slits ?

[gillenator]

Any idea if Dr Bhatti uses a single hair graft in the frontal area and if he uses a zig zag method of planting slits ?

 

I cannot speak for Dr. Bhatti, but I can inform you that "only" single hair grafts are appropriate for the commencement and formation of a hairline. All we need to do is study any natural hairline and we will see nothing but single FUs. And chances are he would potentially stagger the design where the hairline starts when you ask about a zig-zag pattern.

 

Most of the top docs use precised sized blades to create the recipient sites and the sites must also be done with precise angulation. Single hair grafts that are precisely angled produce the most natural appearing hairlines. This is where the surgeon's skills are best noted, artistic design and creation.

 

I had a very small peak placed at the commencement of my hairline on my past procedure but it was very subtle and took only 18 singles. The doctor used a "stick and place" method to create my small peak. Did not lower the hairline, just reinforced it.

 

The number of grafts required are best measured by the method that matt explained. The patient and doctor must first determine the total surface area to be restored and then determine the level of density to be achieved. Both factors have a bearing on the total graft count.

[HairKlepto]

ok to clarify my comments... I had a typo... It should have said if you do not have proper density, you will have thin hair and right behind that super thick hair. You need to have proper transition... Since you mentioned having budget limitations and possibly not getting the graft count you want, this was relevant.

 

Further just because one person says no one can detect their hair transplant, it doesn't negate the fact that MOST hair transplants are detectable, even good ones. It depends who is looking of course. I was with my first wife for five years and she didn't know until I told her, but people who know others with them typically know what to look for and will be able to tell.. and keep in mind we are talking about favorable results... I'm talking about people who don't get favorable results... Yup there are tons and tons... Matter of fact most feedback you get on other sites is to not get a transplant and all the horror stories about it. This site is already biased in the fact that it's generally regulared by people who generally believe in transplants -- exceptions exist of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get them. I'm glad I got mine, but it's a lot of stress, money, upkeep, and risk.

 

If you can't look at the 1000s of hair transplant photos online and tell that most of them look like transplants, then I just don't what to tell you. I've seen 1000's from both good and bad surgeons -- most all have some sign of transplant.

 

So one could argue that as long as you go to the best surgeon it's cool... Yeh it ups your chances. Every surgery has risks, and creating a whole new hairline has more risk then doing some fill in on your crown or corners for example. It's not about whether you are level 1,2,3, etc. It's the same thing you would tell someone who has a tiny bump on their nose... Do you really want to risk having a concaved nose, just for that little bump.

 

I'm probably one of the few people on here who warn people about transplants and if you do your research you will see even good surgeons have bad results. If I was going to risk it I would go to Bisanga or Feriduni since you want FUE.

 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I have a hot young wife 10 years my younger and no complaints from her. I have another surgery again in july with Shapiro, so I do support it, but only for people who really want to take the risk because the reward will negate it. You have to decide that of course. My recommendation is don't do it or at least wait, but that's just me.

 

As far as naturalness.. using 1 hair grafts alone does not ensure naturalness... You have hairline shape, macro and micro irregularities, density, graft direction, hair groupings, incision size and depth (possible scarring/pitting) - all which can go wrong. Temple work is especially difficult to obtain natural results. You have other factors like hair caliber which is also a dead give away if you have don't have favorable characteristics. Unless you select the hairs from the nape or something, you are likely to have thicker caliber hairs in the front.

Edited May 9, 2013 by HairKlepto

[augustya]

I cannot speak for Dr. Bhatti, but I can inform you that "only" single hair grafts are appropriate for the commencement and formation of a hairline. All we need to do is study any natural hairline and we will see nothing but single FUs. And chances are he would potentially stagger the design where the hairline starts when you ask about a zig-zag pattern.

 

Most of the top docs use precised sized blades to create the recipient sites and the sites must also be done with precise angulation. Single hair grafts that are precisely angled produce the most natural appearing hairlines. This is where the surgeon's skills are best noted, artistic design and creation.

 

I had a very small peak placed at the commencement of my hairline on my past procedure but it was very subtle and took only 18 singles. The doctor used a "stick and place" method to create my small peak. Did not lower the hairline, just reinforced it.

 

The number of grafts required are best measured by the method that matt explained. The patient and doctor must first determine the total surface area to be restored and then determine the level of density to be achieved. Both factors have a bearing on the total graft count.

 

So are you saying Zig-Zag Pattern is not the right pattern while making slits ?

 

You said you had a small procedure done in the past where your surgeon used the "stick and place" technique can you tell me more about it ?

 

and also the other thing you mentioned is Most of the top docs use precised sized blades to create the recipient sites ? so what are these precised size blades ?

[Mickey85]

ok to clarify my comments... I had a typo... It should have said if you do not have proper density, you will have thin hair and right behind that super thick hair. You need to have proper transition... Since you mentioned having budget limitations and possibly not getting the graft count you want, this was relevant.

 

Further just because one person says no one can detect their hair transplant, it doesn't negate the fact that MOST hair transplants are detectable, even good ones. It depends who is looking of course. I was with my first wife for five years and she didn't know until I told her, but people who know others with them typically know what to look for and will be able to tell.. and keep in mind we are talking about favorable results... I'm talking about people who don't get favorable results... Yup there are tons and tons... Matter of fact most feedback you get on other sites is to not get a transplant and all the horror stories about it. This site is already biased in the fact that it's generally regulared by people who generally believe in transplants -- exceptions exist of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get them. I'm glad I got mine, but it's a lot of stress, money, upkeep, and risk.

 

If you can't look at the 1000s of hair transplant photos online and tell that most of them look like transplants, then I just don't what to tell you. I've seen 1000's from both good and bad surgeons -- most all have some sign of transplant.

 

So one could argue that as long as you go to the best surgeon it's cool... Yeh it ups your chances. Every surgery has risks, and creating a whole new hairline has more risk then doing some fill in on your crown or corners for example. It's not about whether you are level 1,2,3, etc. It's the same thing you would tell someone who has a tiny bump on their nose... Do you really want to risk having a concaved nose, just for that little bump.

 

I'm probably one of the few people on here who warn people about transplants and if you do your research you will see even good surgeons have bad results. If I was going to risk it I would go to Bisanga or Feriduni since you want FUE.

 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I have a hot young wife 10 years my younger and no complaints from her. I have another surgery again in july with Shapiro, so I do support it, but only for people who really want to take the risk because the reward will negate it. You have to decide that of course. My recommendation is don't do it or at least wait, but that's just me.

 

As far as naturalness.. using 1 hair grafts alone does not ensure naturalness... You have hairline shape, macro and micro irregularities, density, graft direction, hair groupings, incision size and depth (possible scarring/pitting) - all which can go wrong. Temple work is especially difficult to obtain natural results. You have other factors like hair caliber which is also a dead give away if you have don't have favorable characteristics. Unless you select the hairs from the nape or something, you are likely to have thicker caliber hairs in the front.

 

You make some very valid points and some that i dont agree with. I will reply back in more detail soon.

[augustya]

ok to clarify my comments... I had a typo... It should have said if you do not have proper density, you will have thin hair and right behind that super thick hair. You need to have proper transition... Since you mentioned having budget limitations and possibly not getting the graft count you want, this was relevant.

 

Further just because one person says no one can detect their hair transplant, it doesn't negate the fact that MOST hair transplants are detectable, even good ones. It depends who is looking of course. I was with my first wife for five years and she didn't know until I told her, but people who know others with them typically know what to look for and will be able to tell.. and keep in mind we are talking about favorable results... I'm talking about people who don't get favorable results... Yup there are tons and tons... Matter of fact most feedback you get on other sites is to not get a transplant and all the horror stories about it. This site is already biased in the fact that it's generally regulared by people who generally believe in transplants -- exceptions exist of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't get them. I'm glad I got mine, but it's a lot of stress, money, upkeep, and risk.

 

If you can't look at the 1000s of hair transplant photos online and tell that most of them look like transplants, then I just don't what to tell you. I've seen 1000's from both good and bad surgeons -- most all have some sign of transplant.

 

So one could argue that as long as you go to the best surgeon it's cool... Yeh it ups your chances. Every surgery has risks, and creating a whole new hairline has more risk then doing some fill in on your crown or corners for example. It's not about whether you are level 1,2,3, etc. It's the same thing you would tell someone who has a tiny bump on their nose... Do you really want to risk having a concaved nose, just for that little bump.

 

I'm probably one of the few people on here who warn people about transplants and if you do your research you will see even good surgeons have bad results. If I was going to risk it I would go to Bisanga or Feriduni since you want FUE.

 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I have a hot young wife 10 years my younger and no complaints from her. I have another surgery again in july with Shapiro, so I do support it, but only for people who really want to take the risk because the reward will negate it. You have to decide that of course. My recommendation is don't do it or at least wait, but that's just me.

 

As far as naturalness.. using 1 hair grafts alone does not ensure naturalness... You have hairline shape, macro and micro irregularities, density, graft direction, hair groupings, incision size and depth (possible scarring/pitting) - all which can go wrong. Temple work is especially difficult to obtain natural results. You have other factors like hair caliber which is also a dead give away if you have don't have favorable characteristics. Unless you select the hairs from the nape or something, you are likely to have thicker caliber hairs in the front.

 

And I cannot afford Bisanga or Feriduni :eek:

[Atticus]

I used the Calculate Grafts required mentioned in the sticky notes put here by Mickey85

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/mm/calc.html

 

and Boy was I not delighted by the results it gave.

 

It gave me a Estimate of Grafts required, exactly what the Dr I am planning to get it done from told me, 500 Grafts. However this is just to bring the hairline along the widow's peak to bring a 1 CM down so If I just incase even think about bringing my widow's peak point a little lower should I add what ? another 50/100 grafts more for this ?

 

Please see the attached picture, it shows the point that I am also thinking about ?

 

Thanks in Advance !

 

 

That's funny. I had 600 graft to the hairline in order to minimize my widows peak, which was VERY pronounced. It got to where I looked like dracula.

 

you'll get a kick out of this video.

 

 

 

See ya,

 

Atticus

[Mickey85]

HairKlepto,

 

The OP specifically asked if going through Dr. Bhatti, would he get doll-like/unnatural hair which I assumed he meant plugs. I was referring to the use of one-hair follicular units.

 

If you can't look at the 1000s of hair transplant photos online and tell that most of them look like transplants.

 

This is not as black and white as you imply because we would already have a preconceived notion and bias that we are looking at hair transplants. Show those pictures to most of the general public and ask "do you see anything strange about this photo" and most likely you will get a majority saying 'No". This is for the good results though I admit. For the bad results you might get "his hair looks a little thin" etc but I HIGHLY doubt you will get "He had a hair transplant".

 

If you do your research you will see even good surgeons have bad results

 

Totally agreed.

 

I actually like having you around here because it gives another side of the spectrum. I have been called negative before but I am pro-FUE and have slightly(or majorly) unconventional opinions but you seem to be on another spectrum to the one I am on! Hehe.

[augustya]

HairKlepto,

 

The OP specifically asked if going through Dr. Bhatti, would he get doll-like/unnatural hair which I assumed he meant plugs. I was referring to the use of one-hair follicular units.

 

If you can't look at the 1000s of hair transplant photos online and tell that most of them look like transplants.

 

This is not as black and white as you imply because we would already have a preconceived notion and bias that we are looking at hair transplants. Show those pictures to most of the general public and ask "do you see anything strange about this photo" and most likely you will get a majority saying 'No". This is for the good results though I admit. For the bad results you might get "his hair looks a little thin" etc but I HIGHLY doubt you will get "He had a hair transplant".

 

If you do your research you will see even good surgeons have bad results

 

Totally agreed.

 

I actually like having you around here because it gives another side of the spectrum. I have been called negative before but I am pro-FUE and have slightly(or majorly) unconventional opinions but you seem to be on another spectrum to the one I am on! Hehe.

 

And he is also a morale Dampener !!

[augustya]

That's funny. I had 600 graft to the hairline in order to minimize my widows peak, which was VERY pronounced. It got to where I looked like dracula.

 

you'll get a kick out of this video.

 

 

 

See ya,

 

Atticus

 

 

You are a inspiration to me now, your case is just like mine, infact you are at a better condition than I am, you have quite fuller and thicker even before your HT but you had the good fortune to get it done from Dr.Umar I wish I could do that !!

[HairKlepto]

And he is also a morale Dampener !!

 

Morale dampener? You really are delusional aren't you? I'm trying to do you a FAVOR. Maybe if you end up having a BAD result you will end up seeing that. I took a lot of time (my personal time I could be doing other stuff) to try to help you out and give you another perspective so you make an informed decision or possibly avoid a mistake. My answers were very detailed and I could easily back up everything I'm saying with tons of examples, but I won't bother at this point. I respect others like Mickey who can see where I'm coming from even if they don't agree on all my points.

 

I've had 5 procedures over the past 11 years. I know what this decision is all about and what comes with it. I gave advice based on research AND personal experience and realize my opinion is just to be taken along with others and not absolute, but you should weigh it if your desire was really for truth and not under confirmation bias.

 

You can't see that it's hard to go against the grain and tell someone something that they might not want to hear because you think it will help them. It was purely to help you. You started off this thread being rude and I answered anyways because this subject is too important.

 

You start talking about unnatural results and people get uncomfortable. They have to confront their own work and whether or not people really notice it. I'd say many people are wrong to think people NEVER notice. We tend to have a false sense of ourselves.

 

The reality is you want the yes answer... I see these people all the time.. They will ask five dr's until one tells them yes you should have a procedure. You want confirmation that surgery is a good idea and that it will solve all your problems. So to say I'm a morale dampener just shows your incredible ignorance to everything I've explained. You want to defeat my points, then do it logically. You should be thanking me.

[socates123]

Whoa.

[HairKlepto]

HairKlepto,

 

I actually like having you around here because it gives another side of the spectrum. I have been called negative before but I am pro-FUE and have slightly(or majorly) unconventional opinions but you seem to be on another spectrum to the one I am on! Hehe.

 

Thank you Mickey... I appreciate your perspective as well and enjoy following your thoughts on FUE.

 

As for photos... I'm not sure how much time people spend looking at photos other than from the very best dr's. If I were to only look at Hasson/Wong, i would think the average person had a really good chance at a great result -- their risk is minimal. But, I doubt that it is their average result -- I'm sure it's comparable but of course they will pick their best patients. Photos also don't reveal critical details that you simply only see in person.

 

Now when we look at results from some random clinic -- which people often pick because it's cheap or close to them -- the results are often poor or there are like 3 photos with poor quality. I also use the graphic design analogy because even crappy designers can have good results now and then. We tend to draw ourselves to the good results and ignore the bad ones. We think I'm going to be like THAT guy.

 

On a side note... I could show plenty of results where the patient is happy and proud of their work that looks 100% obvious it's a transplant. One could argue that what they got is still better -- but it's not always. How many people do we know (celebrities, etc.) that have gotten some surgery and think they look great, yet look horrible. I don't really direct any of these comments to you, but just saying on matter of discussion. I think part of our responsibility in this forum is helping others see both sides of the coin. Just like you warn people about strip... It's true... I have a large donor scar that I wouldn't have had if I did FUE. Now I have to worry about it showing even with longer hair. That is the nature of the beast. I plan to put hair in it (more $$$). With my upcoming surgery I will have spent around $20,000. Yet I could argue strip let's me get more donor and so on and so on. It's good to have more perspectives.