Senior Member hopefull Posted January 20, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 I ve been surfing these forums since 2001-2 (if i remember correctly).Thats about 7-8 years so guess i have seen the lot and it was quiet a ride so far. Once in these forums there were 100 different treatments that almost everyone was buying and trying..all of them proved to be nothing worthwhile and in the end propecia, rogaine and nizoral ruled and people gave up on these supposed treatments.In that times i remember when people were giving up on this crap and also gave a bad review there were always "the others" (i will call them that)...that were coming in the threads giving the speech "just because it doesnt work for you it doesnt mean that it doesnt work" or "you have to give it a full year" or "you dint stick to it" or "up your dose".Well no matter what they were saying people woke up to the reality and stopped trying and paying for these crap... It might sound bad but actually it looked like good times to us... Times full of hope. We were all there, trying,reporting things like "i saw 2 new hairs" or "i think its doing something" or "my scalp turned red" lol.Unfortunatelly this artifical "hope" climate was a fluke and the reality was that only two things worked enough to make some real difference...I guess we all lost some money back then in BS treatemetns and still do on lazers or whatever. That times also hair transplants were very cool!!!I mean H&W had megasessions, Armani was giving nw1 hairlines, DHI was experimenting with 10000 grafts FUE, Cole was using BHT and we thought that "even if i run out of donor...SO WHAT...i will have BHT ".Everything was positive and full of hope...and that was the fairy tale.A fairy tale that noone could spoil, especially or two critics or some failed cases... But this is 2009 and people are much more educated and they do not want fluke hopes.They question things,,,they question the totally natural result claims, the donor issues, the overall look of modern transplants...and as they do they know day by day that these transplants are not such a good solution for the vast majority of hairloss sufferers (for some it is) This realizations created the so called "negativity" in forums in contrast with the fluke hopes of the years before...its not the fault of some posters that have to be banned(the hairlosshelp case) is just the simple truth in my opinion... i hope that noone gets offended from my post is just my personal observation and what i think about transplants...maybe its the minority view in these forums but i believe that is because the majority that share it do not post in these forums or even considers the transplant option.So for the posters that still research i just want to highlight that what might seem as the majority view in hairloss forums might actually be a very small minority view in the real world...so just be carefull should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 20, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 20, 2009 I ve been surfing these forums since 2001-2 (if i remember correctly).Thats about 7-8 years so guess i have seen the lot and it was quiet a ride so far. Once in these forums there were 100 different treatments that almost everyone was buying and trying..all of them proved to be nothing worthwhile and in the end propecia, rogaine and nizoral ruled and people gave up on these supposed treatments.In that times i remember when people were giving up on this crap and also gave a bad review there were always "the others" (i will call them that)...that were coming in the threads giving the speech "just because it doesnt work for you it doesnt mean that it doesnt work" or "you have to give it a full year" or "you dint stick to it" or "up your dose".Well no matter what they were saying people woke up to the reality and stopped trying and paying for these crap... It might sound bad but actually it looked like good times to us... Times full of hope. We were all there, trying,reporting things like "i saw 2 new hairs" or "i think its doing something" or "my scalp turned red" lol.Unfortunatelly this artifical "hope" climate was a fluke and the reality was that only two things worked enough to make some real difference...I guess we all lost some money back then in BS treatemetns and still do on lazers or whatever. That times also hair transplants were very cool!!!I mean H&W had megasessions, Armani was giving nw1 hairlines, DHI was experimenting with 10000 grafts FUE, Cole was using BHT and we thought that "even if i run out of donor...SO WHAT...i will have BHT ".Everything was positive and full of hope...and that was the fairy tale.A fairy tale that noone could spoil, especially or two critics or some failed cases... But this is 2009 and people are much more educated and they do not want fluke hopes.They question things,,,they question the totally natural result claims, the donor issues, the overall look of modern transplants...and as they do they know day by day that these transplants are not such a good solution for the vast majority of hairloss sufferers (for some it is) This realizations created the so called "negativity" in forums in contrast with the fluke hopes of the years before...its not the fault of some posters that have to be banned(the hairlosshelp case) is just the simple truth in my opinion... i hope that noone gets offended from my post is just my personal observation and what i think about transplants...maybe its the minority view in these forums but i believe that is because the majority that share it do not post in these forums or even considers the transplant option.So for the posters that still research i just want to highlight that what might seem as the majority view in hairloss forums might actually be a very small minority view in the real world...so just be carefull should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PLEASE GROW PLEASE Posted January 21, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 21, 2009 Its 2009 and like Obama said things are gonna change . HT surgeons up your game or were coming after you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TheEmperor Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 I dont know if its any different. There are still some "hype" products in the mix. Have you been following acell's use in HTs? Or all the adds for lasercomb which are "FDA approved" and litter many sites. And what about BHT? About a year ago, people were talking like FUE would replace strip, and then we find the yield is not so great. I think maybe YOU have changed, having followed things so long are now savvy to the industry, and now you are here at the only site to provide a proven cure. . hair transplants. The docs shapiro, H&W, feller, and others have now been doing mega sessions for the better part of a decade. The excitement is over. Session maximum size seems to have been reached, and survival rates are high. We have seen the home runs and realize that not everyone can get those results. My Hair Loss Web Site - Hair Transplant with Dr. Wong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PLEASE GROW PLEASE Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 Theres always going to be snake oil remedies but there should also be a more consistent pattern of good results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 Theres always going to be snake oil remedies but there should also be a more consistent pattern of good results This is the best common sense response even possible. Well said. "That times also hair transplants were very cool!!!I mean H&W had megasessions, DHI was experimenting with 10000 grafts FUE, Cole was using BHT and we thought that "even if i run out of donor...SO WHAT...i will have BHT" And fast forward to today and the only thing left standing now that the dust has settled is...the megasession. They work, end of story. The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MrJobi Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 There is good and bad in every industry and generally it is the people who get "taken" who have the negative things to say .. A HT is like an investment, you need to do research and be sure on the percentages prior to "investing". Like investing there are many quick fixes ( snake oils and doctors making unrealistic claims) which upon further review are untrue.. So, do the research, talk to people in the industry, and then make an educated decision based on your situation. Generally it is a long term project taking 1-4 years.. LASTLY if you are not willing to take the risk, don't invest JOBI 1417 FUT - Dr. True 1476 FUT - Dr. True 2124 FUT - Dr. True 604 FUE - Dr. True My views are based on my personal experiences, research and objective observations. I am not a doctor. Total - 5621 FU's uncut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 22, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 Originally posted by Jotronic: "That times also hair transplants were very cool!!!I mean H&W had megasessions, DHI was experimenting with 10000 grafts FUE, Cole was using BHT and we thought that "even if i run out of donor...SO WHAT...i will have BHT" And fast forward to today and the only thing left standing now that the dust has settled is...the megasession. They work, end of story. you left out the Armani nw1 hairlines that i mentioned they also work, end of story...but at what price? I am sure everything that pushes the boundaries of hair restoration has a price...its not something magical that one doctor did ... and that includes H&W megasessions...there the price could a be the longest strip scars that go around the whole head!! and since i believe all clinics have good and bad and there is no perfect clinic I will tell you the bad that i see and you tell me what you think 1. It doesnt sound so good for a clinic to endorse a drug like avodart which is not approved for hairloss and its for another illness. 2. It doesnt saound so good for the strip to start and end so close to the nw6 borderline area...what if you nw7?What if you develop sides to the drugs one day and you have to stop them. 3. What percentage of people coming at your office have the laxity for these megasessions of 7000-10000 grafts? is it over 5%? Its not about H&W ofcourse i just gave you some examples.But generally i find funny when clinics give so many grafts and fill hairlines on youngsters or give scars so close to the nw6 area on the sides...and when we question these things people come and say the clinic takes your family history and hairloss pattern into account and blah blah blah. Just one question if every case is so different and it depends on the case the graft numbers the plan etc then why ALL THE STRIP SCARS ARE A SMILEY FACE THAT GO UNDER THE NW6 AREA???if the future hairloss or pattern or whatever is different and each approach is different then why we dont have different kind of strip scars...i ve never seen a strip scar not going under the nw6 area even in 20 years old with nw2 hairlines!!! ...and if you go nw6 then why not nw7 why not your scar to be completely obvious one day? should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mr. GQ Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 don't worry hopefull now that Obama is here things should and will change and hopefully soon there will be no scars in the back but only on top and covered with thick hair off course. if not legally - black market 4 sure, as long as trial and error period prevails. you'll be able to pick from few "fine" places like Russia, China, Bulgaria etc if bureaucracy happens to stand in its way again. so far humanity is limited to only two countries more or less. boy would i be pissed if i happened to live in a third world country. i said hopefully hopefull hang in there bud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Jotronic Posted January 22, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 I am sure everything that pushes the boundaries of hair restoration has a price...its not something magical that one doctor did...and that includes H&W megasessions... "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke, Three Laws of Prediction Seriously now, the "points" you made have been repeated for years. It's time for you to prove these fears. The Truth is in The Results Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 22, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 22, 2009 Originally posted by Jotronic: It's time for you to prove these fears. I dont have to do shit..i am not here on payroll and i do not sell anything to anyone or take business away from someone and direct them to me like consultants shills and salesmen might try to do by FUE VS Strip debates or whatever I am expressing fears and concerns for the future and when i do and get answers like "its time for you to prove those fears" i am concerned even more... because as you must allready know (yet you gave me this answer) its impossible to prove what we fear that will come in the future for patients that have their surgeries within the last 7-8 years. should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Chuckisduck Posted January 23, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 23, 2009 He is right, about the fears of the future. I haven't heard much from people +10 years out of a HT. My Hair Loss Blog - Hair Transplant with Dr. Keene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 24, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 24, 2009 Obviously we are right...propably thats why he is avoiding the issues raised 3 days now. Why dont you prove to us Joe that i am wrong since you are here promoting transplants?Show us a patient of H&W who had a transplant 20-30 years ago to see how he looks now... should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member dabuski Posted January 24, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hes got a point you know.....having said that todays techniques were not available 20-30 years ago...PLUGGINESS was the norm back then. Hair loss through the ages has proved to be a hard nut to crack ...but now if you go down the road of a HT then u potentially will get a far more cosmetically appealing look then baldness. I guess it will boil down to the individual how HAPPY they are with the result now and in the future.You pays yer money and takes yer chance. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MrJobi Posted January 25, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Guys , guys The science is proven , as the proper donor hair will last a lifetime. If someone takes the right strategy there is an extremely high percentage the hair will remain and aside form further balding( why I take propecia), it is a ling term approach .. Nothing is 100% in life & 4 years later I am veyr happy with my procedures JOBI 1417 FUT - Dr. True 1476 FUT - Dr. True 2124 FUT - Dr. True 604 FUE - Dr. True My views are based on my personal experiences, research and objective observations. I am not a doctor. Total - 5621 FU's uncut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mountinvan Posted January 25, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 I know this is the top forum--but are there are other active forums---and what are your thoughts about them--positive and negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 25, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally posted by MrJobi:Guys , guys The science is proven , as the proper donor hair will last a lifetime. If someone takes the right strategy there is an extremely high percentage the hair will remain and aside form further balding( why I take propecia), it is a ling term approach .. Nothing is 100% in life & 4 years later I am veyr happy with my procedures Its an approach with many flaws and its getting even more dangerous when clinics take it to the limit just to look better than others. Things are pretty simple for me the graft numbers make the whole difference the more hair you have the better you look.The most talked clinics the last years were two.Armani and H&W The first one stuffed thousands of grafts on people with very little hairloss and the after effect loooked spectacular. The second one took massive strips that go around the head in certain people who had the laxity and density and created these spectacular cases.Add to that avodart which is not approved for hairloss and you got the picture. the point is both these two clinics gave what we want which was...amazing transformations.But we have to keep in mind that given the nature of hairloss it self, the limitations of donor, and the unknown long term effect of hairloss drugs...how these transformations will hold up in the future. People are paying enormous amounts of money...what happens if suddenly you have to stop propecia or avodart to sides or other health issues?What happens then?Hairloss is progressive and it wont stop intil you become nw6-nw7 and your donor thins out also!You will go around with a massive scar and a bunch of odd hair? In my opinion no matter how difficult this is to happen...i think noone should have a transplant until he progresses to nw6 or see pictures of people who are nw6 and had transplants without taking any drugs.Thats how we will understand if we want to have a procedure or not...by seeing the brutal truth of transplants in the worst case scenario. should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hopefull, There is no doubt that there are risks associated with hair transplant surgery, and the risk of future hair loss is a serious one to consider. That's why I'm a firm believer that surgeons should leave a good amount of donor hair in reserve for potential work needed. There is some validity in that transplanted hair may not be as "permanent" as we hope for in a small percentage of patients. As we age, especially in later years, there are risks of donor hair thinning which also would result in transplanted hair thinning. The good news is, in most people, it's hardly noticeable. But for some, extensive donor hair thinning could result in extensive transplanted hair thinning. However, to say a hair transplant is permanent is somewhat incorrect considering life itself isn't permanent. Not to be morbid, but death is inevitable and therefore, so is the death of follicles. The key therefore is not "permanency", but longevity. Since most patients won't experience extensive donor hair thinning, as long as a surgeon and patient properly prepare for the risks of future hair loss and use donor hair wisely, the appearance of a patient's hair will look natural and fuller during the course of their lifetime with hair transplant surgery than without. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member dabuski Posted January 25, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Trouble is people think of the NOW in many scenarios in life and tend not to worry too much about the AFTER. A lot of these transformations have been driven by the misery and loss of confidence that hair loss can bring a person......i repeat as i said before you pays your money and takes your chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member dabuski Posted January 25, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Any guys out there that are 10 ..15 years plus wanna add comment here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted January 25, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 H&W's transformations -- amazing Armani's "transformations" -- not amazing ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 25, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:Hopefull, There is no doubt that there are risks associated with hair transplant surgery, and the risk of future hair loss is a serious one to consider. That's why I'm a firm believer that surgeons should leave a good amount of donor hair in reserve for potential work needed. There is some validity in that transplanted hair may not be as "permanent" as we hope for in a small percentage of patients. As we age, especially in later years, there are risks of donor hair thinning which also would result in transplanted hair thinning. The good news is, in most people, it's hardly noticeable. But for some, extensive donor hair thinning could result in extensive transplanted hair thinning. However, to say a hair transplant is permanent is somewhat incorrect considering life itself isn't permanent. Not to be morbid, but death is inevitable and therefore, so is the death of follicles. The key therefore is not "permanency", but longevity. Since most patients won't experience extensive donor hair thinning, as long as a surgeon and patient properly prepare for the risks of future hair loss and use donor hair wisely, the appearance of a patient's hair will look natural and fuller during the course of their lifetime with hair transplant surgery than without. Best wishes, Bill Hello Bill i agree surgery has risks and when clinics push the boundaries to the limits it might be spectacular at first but down the road is more risky.A conservative approach from a surgeon might not looks so spectacular at first and even draw negative comments but i find it more thoughtfull... Actually i think all surgeries should be at least planned with the assumption that the patient will end up nw6.Furthermore pictures of nw6 patients restoration without using drugs should be shown to prospective patients to explain to them what they most likely end up look like when they will loose all their native hair Actually when i want to see results like this i turn into the site of Dr.woods to get a reality check lol by the way you said that you moved my thread here because it was not relevant in the transplant section.I think it turned more than relevant now and maybe it should be moved there... should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hopefull Posted January 25, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 25, 2009 Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:H&W's transformations -- amazing Armani's "transformations" -- not amazing you dont seem to remember how everyone was drooling back then lol. Remember tsakalos case?Do a quick search...by the way he started using avodart after his transplant and he was the most amazing Armani transformation (coincidence?) should we believe everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member lost my swagger Posted January 26, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2009 seriously, hopeful your under appreciated in this community... ive seen you standing up the REAL posters,and for TRUTHS AND REALITIES about this business for years..... jotronic, i respect the work your clinic provides just as most do, but hopeful is correct that he does not have to prove s*** if you ask me.. the proof is out there that transplants are still VERY RISKY. at your clinic or not.. H@w DOESNT BAT 1.000. BUT THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT ONE CLINIC. the truth can be seen that there are LIMITATIONS in their final result as well as their future, that many patients are not made aware of. if one looks long enough on these forums it becomes more and more OBV..... on these forums, people are trying to decide wether or not to undergo a procedure that will ALTER THEIR LOOK, AND LIFE... well if you look long enough, like hopeful has YOU WILL SEE the reality of transplantation.... now this WOULD NOT BE A F**KING PROBLEM IF THE INDUSTY WAS SO DISMISSIVE OF THESE TRUTHS.. but hey its there job, its how they make money..... ive said alot that transplants are good things for SOME, especially those who TRULY know what to expect.. so before you well informed guys chime in, just know in not against all HTs.. they CAN be improvements..... are we really that blind that we dont see the many even today who STILL end up seeking repair?? wishing they would not have gone through with it?? do we not see the YOUNG guys being worked on nowadays By THE VERY 'top' docs we all talk about?? do we not see all those PRAYING for a way to fix their scars, do we not see clinics claming FUE scares are not visible, then posting a pic that shows us nothing and then saying "see, we told ya so"...and dont get me started on these BHT promises im seeing (especially by this sofarsogood shill).. if you decide on a HT with tons of native hair and go bald every where eslr your F**CED.... there are alot of people who are finding this out now, and there will be more and more do we not see that 99% of the great results we do see on the net are either IN LARGE PART DUE TO NATIVE HAIR AND MEDICATION, or they are a result of the SMALL % of patients with FREAKISH donor hair..... and STILL, they have their limitations, STILL these guys express the differences between their grafted hair and their native hair. do we really wanna be naive enough to think that this only happens to patient who dont do the proper "research".. like its somehow their fault things did not turn out like they had hoped, LIKE THEY WERE PROMISED.. do we really not think that this is happening even with "Top" clinics.... hopefull, sorry to go off in your thread about random stuff... it does not do your words justice.... as PGP said....... "best post of the ALL TIME" just wish you, and I werent so damn "negative" *** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member lost my swagger Posted January 26, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted January 26, 2009 ---"There is some validity in that transplanted hair may not be as "permanent" as we hope for in a small percentage of patients. As we age, especially in later years, there are risks of donor hair thinning which also would result in transplanted hair thinning. The good news is, in most people, it's hardly noticeable. But for some, extensive donor hair thinning could result in extensive transplanted hair thinning. However, to say a hair transplant is permanent is somewhat incorrect considering life itself isn't permanent. Not to be morbid, but death is inevitable and therefore, so is the death of follicles."---- ============================================ well put Bill *** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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