What can 2500 grafts give NW6?

[moopookoo]

I had a consultation with the HT doctor and he quoted 2500 grafts FUE and Im NW6, he advised that it will give me nice shadow/veneer and it will frame my face, with conservative hairline and I will be able to buzz it short, thats what i want

He added I can always go for more in future combining BHT/Beard but I will probably be happy with 2500

 

Im just a bit sceptical about the whole thing as 2500 cant do much on NW6 in my opinion, How thin will it look? Or is it common tht some surgeons do this just to get you in knowing you will be coming back for more?

Even if there is no transection is seems to be a small number to give me any respectable coverage,

 

What can that number really give typical NW6 when spread over the scalp with high hairline?

 

 

*Doctor is not recomended by HTN but is well known

Edited April 26, 2012 by moopookoo

[1978matt]

I'm no expert but I would think it depends on what's the minimum denisty you can get away with for your hair type.

 

Lets say you do 10 square cm at the front at 50 grafts per sq cm, then that is 10 x 50 = 500 grafts used. The rest of the grafts could cover 10cm x 10cm area at 20 grafts per square cm at towards the crown.

 

So 2500 grafts could cover about 110 sq cm which is about the size of 2.5 credit cards.

[Jotronic]

I had a consultation with the HT doctor and he quoted 2500 grafts FUE and Im NW6, he advised that it will give me nice shadow/veneer and it will frame my face, with conservative hairline and I will be able to buzz it short, thats what i want

He added I can always go for more in future combining BHT/Beard but I will probably be happy with 2500

 

Im just a bit sceptical about the whole thing as 2500 cant do much on NW6 in my opinion, How thin will it look? Or is it common tht some surgeons do this just to get you in knowing you will be coming back for more?

Even if there is no transection is seems to be a small number to give me any respectable coverage,

 

What can that number really give typical NW6 when spread over the scalp with high hairline?

 

 

*Doctor is not recomended by HTN but is well known

 

 

2500 grafts on a NW6 is a waste of time if you have to wonder how much coverage you'll get. By even asking this you are showing the coverage is important at least to some degree. Is this supposed to be spread over the top and into your crown or just the front? If it is supposed to be just the front then it might work under some conditions but you'll have to allow the hair to grow at least a few inches on top to get any coverage but this also depends on your hair style and hair color and type but from the sounds of it you want to buzz the top and that just won't work.

[chrisdav]

2500 grafts is not going to give you a pleasing result if you are a NW6.

 

Who advised you?

[moopookoo]

2500 grafts is not going to give you a pleasing result if you are a NW6.

 

Who advised you?

 

 

Not allowed to mention docs name on this forum.

 

I thought when you have less grafts and if you buzz it looks better then letting these few grafts grow out a few inches.

2 inches would look like you trying to comb over

compared to buzzed look which can give you marine look, crown wouldnt be touched and im thinkin I could use BHT to fill it out later on

 

Idea is to create an illusion with less is more aproach however it could be waste of money as like one clinic pointed out that cost cant be justified as there wouldnt be significant cosmetic improvement with that amount of grafts.,

 

I calculated and it would give me about 20 grafts per cm2, still better then 0 hair per cm2 but i would still be considered bald rite but not slick shiny bald.

Maybe this doc knows that ill be coming back for more after i see some hair on top, it is a way too conservative imo, scalp would still be visible and it would still look bald in broad daylight.

Whats respectable minimum density per cm2?( bare minimum shd never go less than)

[mahhong]

Not allowed to mention docs name on this forum.

 

I thought when you have less grafts and if you buzz it looks better then letting these few grafts grow out a few inches.

2 inches would look like you trying to comb over

compared to buzzed look which can give you marine look, crown wouldnt be touched and im thinkin I could use BHT to fill it out later on

 

Idea is to create an illusion with less is more aproach however it could be waste of money as like one clinic pointed out that cost cant be justified as there wouldnt be significant cosmetic improvement with that amount of grafts.,

 

I calculated and it would give me about 20 grafts per cm2, still better then 0 hair per cm2 but i would still be considered bald rite but not slick shiny bald.

Maybe this doc knows that ill be coming back for more after i see some hair on top, it is a way too conservative imo, scalp would still be visible and it would still look bald in broad daylight.

Whats respectable minimum density per cm2?( bare minimum shd never go less than)

 

Who told you that you couldn't use his/her name? I'm pretty sure you can mention any doctor by name on these forums and, if they have asked not to be mentioned here, I would take that as very suspicious indeed.

 

2,500 won't really do anything worthwhile for you. If you're NW6, even if you don't touch the crown, I don't really see how you're going to get get 20g/cm2 unless you pretty much just do the frontal half very lightly. This would give you very, very light coverage but wouldn't really do much cosmetically and for the cost/surgery involved seems ultimately not to be worth it.

 

More than that it just sounds like your doctor hasn't really come up with a solid plan with you and made you understand the limitations and practicalities. I'm a bit confused about the BHT thing. Unless you've had lots of work done in the past or have some other particular problem you should have at very least something around 4-5,000 hair grafts in your donor reserve (on your head) - most men have around 6-8,000. If you were going to have a second procedure it shouldn't have to be BHT and it seems a bit weird your doctor would recommend that above using the head donor up first. Can't imagine any plan that involved such a conservative first surgery followed by a BHT when there should still be donor left being a good one.

 

2,500 might give you some light coverage in the frontal third, but it would be pretty scant to be honest. I don't know, but I don't think you'd be happy with the money you spent compared to the result you got. Add to that the fact other clinics seem to have said the same thing and the fact it appears the doc doesn't want to be named and is suggesting BHT. The doc shouldn't be banking on you "coming back" - you should have a proper, effective plan worked out with them that you're happy with and that makes sense.

 

It's hard to say what density you "should" have transplanted as it depends on so many factors. If you imagine the average person has somewhere between 75-100g/cm2 in a non-balding head and you can see 20 is, at best, around a quarter of your hair back. I'm no expert but I would say people usually start around a minimum of 25g/cm2, especially around the hairline, where it's not uncommon to see 35-50+.

 

It just sounds, to be honest, like there's too much uncertainty to consider it seriously. You need a complete plan which takes into account future balding, if you're on meds, hair type, donor density, goals, ambitions, realistic outcomes, potential multiple surgeries etc. It sounds like this doctor is telling you "try 2,500 and come back if you want more". That's not going to cut it.

 

I'd say listen to some of the other clinics ahead of whoever this doctor is. I'm really dubious about doctors that don't want to be named at the best of times personally! Add to that the fact the plan doesn't sound wholly convincing and I'd say steer clear.

[RCWest]

If you "aren't" allowed to use his/her name on here, then something is wrong!

 

BTW, 2500 grafts would barely cover the frontal 1/3 of your scalp decently.

[moopookoo]

If you "aren't" allowed to use his/her name on here, then something is wrong!

 

BTW, 2500 grafts would barely cover the frontal 1/3 of your scalp decently.

 

 

 

Its not that doctor doesnt wanna be named, he doesnt even know Im posting here. HTN doesnt allow certain doctors to be mentioned for whatever reason and that doc happen to be one of them

 

 

he is a doctor that is known for his very conservative approach and does BHT

 

I went to 2 other docs, one of them was Umar and they told me between 5500 to 7 000 grafts is what I need which sounds more realistic.

[azazelgs]

if you want a full head of hair that you want to grow than 2500 grafts is a total waste of time and money.check out h&w or rahal in complete restoration for nw5-6 cases.

 

however, this dilemma is something that im thinking a lot. what if someone who is nw5-6 simply does not want a full restoraion and just asks for to have an hairline to buzz it really short and have the 5 o clock shadow effect? just draw a hairline with app 15 cm long and 1-2 cm wide and put it in a normal place like 5-6 cm abowe the eyebrows. i have not seen someone who has done that but some balding people just keeps thair hair "line" and nearly completely bald to nw6 level and when they buzz, it looks great. we all know the importance of the hairline so in this type of cases, can it work??

 

moopookoo,

i think you should first choose what you want; a complete restoration or a shade effect on a bald head? i think many of the people can inform you about the complete restoration but about the shading i never got an decent answer till this day which im seriosly considering of. god luck with your decision.

[moopookoo]

Azazelgs

 

Exactly that, it was never going to be full head of hair, as I said the idea is to have shadow, to avoid having slick bald head with no single hair on top, its always nices to have someting to buzz on top then cue ball look

So would 2500 grafts give me that or it wouldnt even be enough for 5 oclock shadow look,of course its always better to have more density

I would like to see case where theres 20 grafts evenly spread all over NW6, then buzzed. You cant argue that it is still better than no hair at all

[1978matt]

Azazelgs

 

Exactly that, it was never going to be full head of hair, as I said the idea is to have shadow, to avoid having slick bald head with no single hair on top, its always nices to have someting to buzz on top then cue ball look

So would 2500 grafts give me that or it wouldnt even be enough for 5 oclock shadow look,of course its always better to have more density

I would like to see case where theres 20 grafts evenly spread all over NW6, then buzzed. You cant argue that it is still better than no hair at all

 

Stephen at BHR might be a good man to contact as I think his case is quite similar to this.

[aaron1234]

Its not that doctor doesnt wanna be named, he doesnt even know Im posting here. HTN doesnt allow certain doctors to be mentioned for whatever reason and that doc happen to be one of them

 

I've seen plenty of surgeons mentioned on this site that aren't members. The only doctors not allowed to be mentioned are ones who have spammed the forums. Probably the only reason the doctor stated 2,500 grafts is because he isn't capable of doing more. Go elsewhere.

[mahhong]

2,500 in the frontal third will give you a very, very light 5 o'clock shadow, possibly. It comes down to personal opinion, but the question becomes whether the cost and the surgery itself become worth it. That is to some extent a personal decision but you have to be realistic and understand you're going to look like you have a very thin smattering of shaved hair in the front of your head.

 

So, less "5 o'clock shadow" and more just a sparse sense of a hairline. This might look fine; I don't recall seeing a case exactly like this but I have no doubt there are people out there who have had it done. Why only 2,500 though? Is it a financial thing? A doctor's recommendation? Don't go rushing into a procedure with the first doctor who tells you he/she is happy to perform one. 2,500 will give some cosmetic difference but it will be small and conservative with a high likelihood you'd want further surgery.

 

Also, regarding the doctor, I haven't checked the forum T+Cs in detail recently but I'm pretty sure almost any doctor is mentionable here. I personally wouldn't trust a doctor that was so dubious his name was banned on a forum! I hope this doesn't sound overly negative as I don't know the details of your case apart from what you've said, it's just a case of raising issues or ideas you may not have thought of to make sure you're prepared as possible for any decision you take.

 

Another possibility that may be worth considering is scalp micropigmentation (SMP). This is essentially a tattooing of the scalp to look like buzzed hair. It can be combined with FUE to create a more pleasing look in some cases. It has its drawbacks and its not cheap, but some people have had it done and are happy with their results. I know Dr. Rassman and NHI do it so you might want to research them if it's something you're interested in.

[Levrais]

You might want to take a look at this link from a previous poster Hair Restoration Site for Rewind

[moopookoo]

ive seen that case and it looks amazing with only 2000 grafts. Im actually something like this rewind guy.

I respect all your opinions but you cant say that 2500 grafts is not worthed and that is 500 grafts more than Rewind.

Doc i went to is related to doc that had done his HT, and im not sure why but moderators dont allow his name to be mentioned.

I know we are all used to hearing and seeing Nw6 having 8000-12000 grafts, but this is the proof that with fraction of that number you can still have major improvement.

Any doc on this website got case similar to this one with same amount of grafts?

[azazelgs]

mpk,

 

in the rewind case, the hairline is very very high. yes there is a significant iprovement but keep that in mind.

 

in my opinion the place and the shape of the hairline is the most essential part of the ht.first you need to research more about fue doctors , send them pictures , have a face to face consultations if you can and tell them your thoughts about 5 oclock shadow. we all can give you some ideas but none of us are experts and our knowledge is limited. dont stuck with one doctor.

 

chect out stephan at bhr like matt said. in my opinion he is a great case for fue buzz.

[mahhong]

Yes, the rewind case is a decent one for 2,000 grafts , but as other poster have pointed out the hairline is very high indeed. That's not to say it is bad or wrong because each case is its own thing, but it's clear this guy has opted for coverage and a very high, fairly sparse hairline over density.

 

It really does all come down to personal opinion. If you trust the doctor and have seen results you like with similar grafts and feel you can replicate them then go for it, although as most people have said make sure you've done your research, spoken to a range of doctors and come up with the best route forward based on the facts of your specific case.

 

There are lots of things to consider. For example, more important than number of grafts would be the number of hairs. Some men are lucky to have more 2 and 3/4 follicular units than others, meaning 2,500 grafts on one man will look very different on another. Add to that hair diameter, contrast with scalp and all the other variables and it's not as easy as to look at one man's procedure and say "mine will look like that", although of course you can get some idea of what you might be able to achieve.

 

It does come down to a personal decision. You sound happy with your doctor and the plan you have constructed with them and if that's the case and you feel you've done your research, go for it. I think most people would just be concerned that you won't mention the doctor's name despite the fact, with the exception of a few very dubious doctors, this is a public forum where any doctor's name can be mentioned freely. There are still hacks out there and whilst I'm not suggesting your doctor is sub-par, if you can't mention their name something seems amiss.

 

Whatever you choose to do best of luck with it! Every case is different and so in theory there's no reason you couldn't have a successful outcome; just make sure you've researched and made your decision based on facts and you'll be fine, I'm sure!

[moopookoo]

Well, it is Dr Wxxxx, from down under

 

he is known for his conservative hairlines and no of grafts

 

Im thinking him, Umar or the other guy in India that was Umars teacher

[Jotronic]

I think you need to decide on what hair style you are hoping for. In your initial post you said you wanted a buzzed look but you are saying you like what Rewind has and his hair is anything but short, much less buzzed. His hair is about two to three inches long and the only coverage he has is in the front which is where most of the grafts appear to have been concentrated. Look at this profile shot from his 12 month results.

 

 

This is a fine result for the number of grafts used but I want it to be clear that you should not expect a small number of grafts to do what can be a challenge for a larger number of grafts. I have seen dozens of patients in person that bought into the "less is more" approach and I can honestly say that "less is more" means less hair, more money, more surgery.

 

Stephen from BHR was mentioned as another example of FUE and keeping a short buzz cut. You will not have the same result as Stephen for a few key reasons. First, you are talking about 2500 grafts whereas Stephen has had north of 7000 grafts (if I recall). Second, Stephen's characteristics are perfect for that hair style because of the salt & pepper nature of his hair. It is this mix of shades that gives the result a better appearance but it also gives his donor area a less thinned appearance for the same reasons. The dark and white nature of his hair is the great equalizer. Comparing your future results to Stephen at BHR is like comparing someone that is a NW6 and gets 3000 grafts expecting the result to compare to my 9400 grafts. It just doesn't compute.

 

As long as you understand what the limitations will be and you are happy with the compromises, then more power to you and I wish you all the luck in getting the result that you want.

[Jotronic]

I think you need to decide on what hair style you are hoping for. In your initial post you said you wanted a buzzed look but you are saying you like what Rewind has and his hair is anything but short, much less buzzed. His hair is about two to three inches long and the only coverage he has is in the front which is where most of the grafts appear to have been concentrated. Look at this profile shot from his 12 month results.

 

 

This is a fine result for the number of grafts used but I want it to be clear that you should not expect a small number of grafts to do what can be a challenge for a larger number of grafts. I have seen dozens of patients in person that bought into the "less is more" approach and I can honestly say that "less is more" means less hair, more money, more surgery.

 

Stephen from BHR was mentioned as another example of FUE and keeping a short buzz cut. You will not have the same result as Stephen for a few key reasons. First, you are talking about 2500 grafts whereas Stephen has had north of 7000 grafts (if I recall). Second, Stephen's characteristics are perfect for that hair style because of the salt & pepper nature of his hair. It is this mix of shades that gives the result a better appearance but it also gives his donor area a less thinned appearance for the same reasons. The dark and white nature of his hair is the great equalizer. Comparing your future results to Stephen at BHR is like comparing someone that is a NW6 and gets 3000 grafts expecting the result to compare to my 9400 grafts. It just doesn't compute.

 

As long as you understand what the limitations will be and you are happy with the compromises, then more power to you and I wish you all the luck in getting the result that you want.

[azazelgs]

joe,

 

as far as i remember you recieved 2500 grafts in your first procedure with h&w that gave you a great frontal covarage. if to talk about this case, applying 2500 completely to the front and buzz cutting it does not make any difference?