Want HT--but no Propecia--Help!

[dan3to]

Hi guys, I'm go glad I just found this forum! So here's my issue, I'm 28, I'm not completely bald, my crown has thinned, and so has my hairline. So basically, I'm not completely bald. I currently use nioxin, rogaine foam, and hair n nail vitamins, and I never leave my house without toppik, lol.

 

My donor hair is very thick. I want to get a hair transplant, problem is I do not, and will not, take propecia. I have heard from many people its a lot better to take propecia, before, and after a hair transplant, because it will strengthen the transplanted hairs. My other concern is, since I'm NOT completely bald, and if i get a hair transplant now, what do I do if the hair I currently have on my top, falls out years from now?

 

So again, to sum it up, I want to get a hair transplant, but my 2 big issues are not taking propecia, and that I'm not completely bald, so theres a good chance the hair i now have on the top, can fall off.

 

Thanks in advance!

[aaron1234]

If you're not even willing to try Fin then you are probably not serious enough in your fight against hair loss. If you get a HT without Fin you are also risking permanent shock of native hairs leaving you more bald then before the HT. For some who dont take Fin they luck out - but it's a dangerous proposition.

[chix]

I suggest you consult a recommended HT doc or your dermatologist and ask him the pros and cons of doing an HT without Propecia. In any case, you should be ready to have more than one procedure in your lifetime. IMO, if you keep your goals modest and are financially and emotionally prepared for more than one HT, with proper planning,you might not need propecia - but only with careful planning in conjunction with your doc. However, no one knows whether you will experience any side effects till you give it a try, but I totally understand your reluctance. There are tons of Propecia fans on these forums and no doubt it works well for them and they experience little or no sides or even if they do, they continue to use it and live with the sides. Personally, I wonder how its still on the market!!! I feel its going to be just a matter of time before it's recalled or plastered with even more severe warnings of side effects - the scope and variety of side effects are breathtaking to say the least (and not all of it has to do with sexual sides) and all evidence points to sides being experienced in more than 2% of men. Just google "propecia side effects" or check out propeciahelp.com (accused by some of being fearmongerers) or propecialawsuits.com. Don't believe everything you read on these forums - make an informed choice only AFTER consulting a doc. There are a lot of people having had transplants who are not on propecia. You could also explore the FUE route or not opt for an HT at all and just shave down.

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Dan3to

Welcome to forum. I'm gonna approach this from a different angle. You absolutely can do a transplant without taking meds! There have been many people on this site do the same thing and look great. Examples on this site, Tao and hairthere. Thier hair looks great. YOU WILL however continue to lose your native existing hair. It might take a while but it will certainly happen. You will just wind up spending more money on transplants in the end and I'm not sure that is such a bad thing if you are totally opposed to finasteride. I would strongly suggest getting on rogaine though. My personal experience, I've been on finasteride and rogaine for 10 months and I can tell a MAJOR difference. I'm glad I'm taking the meds a year before my transplant! Good luck to you buddy!

[aaron1234]

NEWHAIRPLEASE is right. There are some examples of patients who have had very successful transplants when not being on fin. With hairthere though, he at least tried it for an extensive period and when he stopped he didn't experience a massive shed. Not every patient will be so fortunate.

 

I remember reading where a doc mentioned that most of his patients who experienced side effects with propecia were the ones most tentative to go on it in the first place. The placebo effect is well documented - I wonder how many of the men experiencing side effects would have had the same sensations with a sugar cube disguised as fin. I'm not trying to discount every patient who has had a bad experience with Fin - God knows many men have had great success with Rogaine and it practically destroyed my scalp. I just think those who claim to be so worried about their hair and don't even try the drug are doing themselves a great disservice.

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Well said Aaron!!!

If Im gonna spend 15K on a cosmetic surgery, Im certainly gonna at least try to keep the rest of my hair for $10 a month!!

[dan3to]

Thanks for the replies guys. I know the whole propecia debate is sensitive to some. Don't get me wrong, I've seen it do miracles, even on my own friend. It literally grew back his crown and front, so I'm not discrediting that it works, I know it does. My philosophy though, is anything that can have any effects "down there," then I'm not going to risk it. I respect those of you who disagree, but that's just me.

 

As I mentioned, currently I use rogaine foam twice a day, use nioxin, and take hair/nail vitamins. Just last night, I ordered Nizoral, and I ordered 10% minoxodil. You guys are the best, so I would love your insights into both Nizoral, and 10% minoxodil. Thanks!

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Dan

I think you got a pretty good grasp on things..just out of curiosity where did you order Nizoral from? I thought it was very difficult to find right now..I stocked up on it a few months back! I love Nizoral, it is definitely one of my favorites!

[dan3to]

Thanks Newhair. I got it amazon.com. I probably way overpaid, but oh well, I've been reading a lot of good things about it, so I just had to get it. Can I ask you why everybody says to use it 1 to 2 times a week? And should I just use nioxin the rest of the days I shower? Thanks!

 

Dan

I think you got a pretty good grasp on things..just out of curiosity where did you order Nizoral from? I thought it was very difficult to find right now..I stocked up on it a few months back! I love Nizoral, it is definitely one of my favorites!

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Using more often may cause your hair to shed or tryout really bad...

[mahhong]

It's quite a passionate subject, propecia is!

 

The truth is simple. Your balding pattern is determined from the day you're born and nothing is ultimately going to change that. Propecia might slow it down, even halt it, for years and perhaps decades - but it cannot change the way you bald or ultimately stop it.

 

If you're lucky enough to not have a severe balding pattern and you're willing to have as many transplants as it takes to get a good head of hair, then there is every possibility you could have successful surgery without drugs. You'd more than likely need several procedures or more, but if you have the right donor and a manageable balding pattern it is possible.

 

Of course, nature's cruel trick is that there's currently no way to tell what your balding pattern will be precisely. There are ways to guess it better, but it's possible that a man with a full head of hair at 35 will end up a Norwood 7 at 60, and a man who looks Norwood 3 at 22 might end up still being Norwood 3 by the time he's 70. The general rule of thumb is that the earlier the balding and the more severe it is the higher chance of it ending up advanced NW6 or 7 - but there are exceptions and that's not an absolute truth by any means.

 

So the logic with propecia is that it's better to take a pill that costs not much daily than buy more procedures that cost thousands of dollars and takes time and recovery. Also, if you are going to have advanced baldness, propecia is your best chance at holding on to anything and making any procedure worthwhile.

 

But the simple truth is many men have had successful procedures without drugs because their balding has stabilised and they've had the donor to make a suitable cosmetic impact in the bald areas.

 

Of course, even if you do have the balding pattern and donor available to make surgery successful without drugs, you absolutely have to be willing to have multiple procedures over the course of years or decades because it's almost certain you will continue to bald and lose the hair you're destined to lose. The only way around that is to wait until the balding stabilises (or seems at its limits) and then get a procedure done - but most men don't really want to wait it out like that!

 

There are lots of men on here who think hair restoration without propecia is idiotic, and similarly there are lots of men who think propecia is Satan's own drug! But I think the truth is in the middle; propecia is a useful drug if you can or are willing to take it, but it's not absolutely necessary in hair restoration under the right circumstances. But it's the best insurance for your HTs, so it does make sense to use it if you aren't too averse to or can't for any reason.

 

But, to also bring some balance; finasteride is not a guarantee to keep all your hair. Most men report it holds their balding stable for years, some two decades or more. But long-term effectiveness of propecia at maintaining hair is not accurately known and some men report propecia losing its effectiveness only 4 or 5 years after they started it. In addition, whilst some men have a fantastic response on the drug, most have at best a stabilisation, and some little effect at all (though it's overwhelmingly the case that it usually works to at least some degree).

 

Ultimately, propecia is the best insurance you can get for keeping your hair, but even propecia is not 100% successful - certainly not over 4 or 5 decades.

 

You just have to decide for yourself what's best for you - but there are options whatever you choose to do and some people can have HTs without drugs and make it work for them!

[aaron1234]

Thanks NEWHAIRPLEASE and great post mahhong.

 

I guess my passionate pro-Fin views stem from that I know without a doubt that I'd now be a NW6 without it. I pray that I'm one of those lucky guys who the drug works well for over 2 decades.

[fortune11]

I had my first HT in 04 and was adamant on not taking any pills (propecia) -- my hair loss has progressed since then and now recently I had HT#2.

 

I have finally given up and started propecia -- and the difference is noticeable on my crown area within 3 months. That area needs a heck of lot more donor to look anywhere near good and medication I think may be the only way to keep those hair and economise on oveall $$ cost of HT as well. Hell, there is a chance I may not ever need an HT #3 given the way its going (fingers crossed of course).

 

Concerns regarding side effects are genuine and you should have them, but ultimately it boils down to -- HOW BADLY DO YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR HAIR, simple as that.

[wildflowerwildflower]

Since I'm currently in the process of making a decision on a HT surgeon, and because I share similar views to some of you on here that are reluctant to rely on meds for hair loss, it has been one of my top questions posed to all the hair docs I've interviewed. I've interviewed about 7-8 so far, top docs highly discussed on this board. I thought you might be interested in what they've said.

 

All have basically said the same thing (some with more or less varying degrees of intensity on their opinion): it is NOT required or needed to take propecia/fin with the HTs, and if you experience any serious side effects definitely stop taking, but it's worth a try to see how it works for your system. When pressed, they all agreed they don't require their patients to take it. Most seemed to generally respect my concerns - and like any good Dr. still suggested their proposed treatment plan, with the assurance that I was in control over my own health care choices.

 

I've studied pharmaceuticals and herbs for many years now. I've lived in Asia and Europe where herbs and other remedies are used much more extensively and alongside western meds. I'm sure there is good research out there about herbal approaches to hair loss that just haven't been validated in this country. I wish I was more interested in this when I lived abroad, but it'd be worthwhile to explore - especially China and India - for their medical approaches to hair loss. I know many folks on this forum discount the herbal approaches that are pushed commercially in the U.S, and probably for good reason - but what I'm saying is that there most likely are less-invasive approaches to treat hair loss medically.

 

Based on my research most pharmaceutical meds have side effects, many quite serious (just watch a viagra commercial - and yet I totally get why people risk taking this med). When you're altering the body's chemistry, there is bound to be side effects in other regions of the body. It's a very serious subject in my mind. That's why it's been one of my top questions to Drs.

 

I think it'd be great to hear from more guys who have had HTs without the use of meds and hear their observations. I guess I'll probably be one soon unless I cave and decide to try Propecia again, which is doubtful at this point.

[wildflowerwildflower]

Oh, I also wanted to respond to someone's post about meds and placebo effect. It might be true that Drs see a connection between those who are wary of the meds beforehand being the ones with the side effects after taking them. But that doesn't discount the fact that these medications alter your hormonal balance, which basically means it effects brain chemistry which regulates your entire body. If you research medical history, you will find long, long lists of drugs that are no longer used now due to the long-term, serious side effects they caused - many after being deemed safe and used for many years.

 

So I just feel that Drs or even folks on here that use the placebo effect to minimize the potential risks are being disingenuous. I completely respect folks that choose to take the meds despite the risks. I just don't think it's fair to act like there are no risks involved and if someone reports having side effects, they are grouped in as being paranoid, overly-sensitive, frantic, psychosomatic, etc.

 

I prefer honest debates.

[biscuit]

I think it'd be great to hear from more guys who have had HTs without the use of meds and hear their observations. I guess I'll probably be one soon unless I cave and decide to try Propecia again, which is doubtful at this point.

 

The forum search section is kinda hard to find:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/search.php

 

Try searching for "meds" or "propecia" in the Hair Restoration Questions & Answers section. Select "Search Titles Only" to narrow down the threads.

Edited October 5, 2011 by biscuit

[dan3to]

Believe me guys, its not the $ that's stopping me from taking propecia, as I said before, I know it works, I've seen it work on 1 of my best friends, and it did wonders for him. But again, anything that can have any effects "down there", i may be in the minority on this, but I just refuse to take it. Which I must say, kills me! Because finally there's something that truly works, but it has to have those major side effects.

 

My top is thin, but im not completely bald. And I have great donor hair, my sides and back are very thick, but again, whats the point of getting a HT, if (1) im bound to lose my thin hair on top and (2) if the transplanted hairs go thru shock loss. It almost makes me wish I was completely bald. But for now, my saving grace, is Toppik. This is so pathetic to say, but I would be depressed, without it. I'm just praying the Nizoral and Minoxidil 10% I ordered over the weekend helps me out. I've been using nioxin for about 6 years and Rogaine foam for about a year or more.

 

Of course, I have a very hairy chest, which I'd love if a HT surgeon can do a chest hair to scalp transplant...that way, kill 2 birds with 1 stone, hair on my head, and no more hairy chest! lol

[Lewis71]

I know the decision to take propecia is not an easy one. In fact, I took just about every herbal and vitamin product I could find to treat my hairloss before I took the propecia plunge. Those herbal products, including saw palmetto did nothing. Ultimately, propecia is the best thing you can do without getting a transplant. My advice would be to try it for a month. If you notice any libido issues discontinue it. I have been taking it for 3 months and have had no unwanted effects.