Scalp laxity question

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

I wanted to start a new thread on this. I stated in another thread that I do 5 min in the morning and 5 min in the evening and Jotronic told me I needed to do way more- which I appreciate him telling me. However, how does great laxity actually help you? What I mean is once the doctor removes the strip, if it's easy to close will the doctor actually remove another strip sliver for more grafts? This is where I'm confused a little.

[hairthere]

NewHair, No, the doc will only take one strip. The better your laxity the bigger the strip. I would do the exercise when I woke for about 10 minutes and then at night I would just do it for as long as possible while watching TV. I have no idea if it made any actual difference although Dr. Feller did tell I had very good laxity, so who knows!

[Jotronic]

Newhairplease,

 

Yes, sorry if there was any confusion. The scalp exercises do help to make the scalp more loose thus giving two direct benefits. First, if going for "the max" then a wider strip can be removed while allowing for less tension. This means more hair is transplanted. Because there is less tension removing the strip then the upper and lower edges of the wound can be pulled together easier with less tension thus making the recovery more comfortable.

 

Of all demographics the Spaniards that come to us (in droves) tend to be the most diligent with scalp exercises and when they appear to have some genetic indicator that allows for more natural laxity to begin with then you begin to see some of the biggest cases in the world. We had one Spanish patient come to us after doing the exercises for 30 minutes a day for six months straight. Dr. Hasson easily removed a 3cm wide strip with almost zero tension. He was another 8000 graft patient like the other Spanish patient I posted here... http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/161678-dr-hasson-8402-grafts-one-session-4-months.html

[mattj]

The doctor will be aiming to remove a strip that includes the number of grafts that it was agreed you would be having transplanted in the session. Unless (like Joe said) you decided to go for the maximum, which is something guys with a lot of scalp to cover might opt for.

 

 

I wonder what it is about the Spanish... :confused:

[Jotronic]

Mattj,

 

I don't know what it is about the Spanish. I know you have Spanish patients as well. Has Dr. Rahal noted the differences in laxity between Spanish patients vs. others? When we were in Barcelona and Madrid earlier this year I went in knowing that we'd have a lot of patients with high laxity and that was exactly what happened.

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Thanks for clearing it up, so when Dr Rahal starts to remove the strip, I'm going for 4000 grafts, he will start the incision width based on what he feels in CM width will give me 4000 grafts??

[mattj]

Mattj,

 

I don't know what it is about the Spanish. I know you have Spanish patients as well. Has Dr. Rahal noted the differences in laxity between Spanish patients vs. others? When we were in Barcelona and Madrid earlier this year I went in knowing that we'd have a lot of patients with high laxity and that was exactly what happened.

 

I asked Dr Rahal and he knew exactly what you meant. Very intriguing.

NEWHAIRPLEASE, you've got it. That's it.

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

Thanks Matt

I'm so pumped!! I wish it was January.

[bonkerstonker]

Newhair them exercises are good and i have heard many people over the years say that they have gained laxity quickly by doing them but you could also do what i have been doing for years by accident.

 

I did no exercises at all before my surgery other than the following throughout my life, Dr Hasson took 5300 out in my strip and said he could of taken 7000 or 8000 in that strip if needed. The back of my head is quite tight on the top side now so i'm probably maxed out there but the bottom side still is visibly baggy like a fat mans stomach and come to think of it since i've not trained for 5 months probably mine too lol.

 

Anyway what i do is lay down in bed or sit on the sofa with my hand behind my head supporting it whilst watching tv and it seems to constantly push up the scalp which must be the reason why i have good laxity so you may as well try it as it's really simple i had no idea i was doing it. Obviously i don't do it now as i don't wanna stretch the scar!

[azazelgs]

Lets assume this; a person does his scalp exercises very well and get the max amount for the procedure. What happens in case of 2nd or even 3rd procedure?

 

I mean after the 1st, can a person gain the same laxity as at the beginning of the first?

[azazelgs]

Anyone here to reply???

[mattj]

Lets assume this; a person does his scalp exercises very well and get the max amount for the procedure. What happens in case of 2nd or even 3rd procedure?

 

I mean after the 1st, can a person gain the same laxity as at the beginning of the first?

 

I don't think so as there is a limit to how much a person can keep stretching their scalp. I think it's more important to think about your total available grafts though. Obviously laxity is tied into that, as in a tight scalp won't allow higher numbers to be reached, but using your example: if a patient got maximum grafts in his first procedure due to good laxity, he does only have X amount of donor grafts available 'in the bank', no matter how stretchy he gets his scalp the second or third time.

 

Maybe that helps a bit.

[azazelgs]

he does only have X amount of donor grafts available 'in the bank', no matter how stretchy he gets his scalp the second or third time.

 

 

 

I really don't get that. If a person lets say gets 5k grafts in his first ht and 1 year later, he gets the exact same laxity prior his 1st surgery. You say that he can't get 5k?? If so , could you explain me why?

 

English is not my native so sorry if this reply seems aggressive, I'm just really really curious and find out about this!!

[Jotronic]

Lets assume this; a person does his scalp exercises very well and get the max amount for the procedure. What happens in case of 2nd or even 3rd procedure?

 

I mean after the 1st, can a person gain the same laxity as at the beginning of the first?

 

Once the strip is removed and the donor area has healed laxity will naturally return on it's own. This does not mean however that the same amount of laxity (pre-sx) will return but enough to allow for normal mobility and then some. This alone will allow for additional work to be performed albeit with a strip that is not as wide. With the exercises additional laxity can still be had but usually not as much as before. For instance, if a patient had 4500 grafts in one session, and this was the max available during the procedure, he would not be expected to have as much laxity to get another 4500 grafts in a second procedure. I believe that generally, assuming as many grafts as possible were taken in the first procedure, approximately 70% of the previous harvest can be taken in the second and then 70% of that taken for a third procedure if needed. I call this Jotronic's Law of Diminishing Harvesting:)

[azazelgs]

Wow hi there Joe,

 

It's been a while and thank you for your reply!!! While I found you now , I want to ask some of the questions (I asked them through mail but I think you were busy or on a holiday:D))

 

1-Do you think laxity exercises are more useful for 1st procedure or 2nd ,3rd??

 

2-I send you some pictures to get an idea of my laxity and now I'm putting here it again for other members to see. Do you think this is a good laxity and can I increase it with the exercises??

 

3-What do you (not only you Joe ,everyone) think of my donor?

Edited September 23, 2011 by azazelgs

[mattj]

I really don't get that. If a person lets say gets 5k grafts in his first ht and 1 year later, he gets the exact same laxity prior his 1st surgery. You say that he can't get 5k?? If so , could you explain me why?

 

English is not my native so sorry if this reply seems aggressive, I'm just really really curious and find out about this!!

 

Well, if he has 10,000 grafts available then he has above average donor supply to begin with. Remember that the donor hairs aren't growing back once they are taken. The supply is limited and a strip of scalp is being removed with each operation. There is a point where it simply isn't safe to remove any more because a patient needs hair (and skin!) on the back of his head.

 

Edit: Good info from Jotronic there.

[Jotronic]

1-Do you think laxity exercises are more useful for 1st procedure or 2nd ,3rd??

 

I think that anytime a patient is going for amap (as many as possible) then the scalp exercises are important to do. This can include the first session for advanced NW patients as well as the 8th surgery for repair patients and everything in between.

 

2-I send you some pictures to get an idea of my laxity and now I'm putting here it again for other members to see. Do you think this is a good laxity and can I increase it with the exercises??

 

Ummm, yeah you could say that your laxity is good. It reminds me of the Italian patient we had in here yesterday. He got 7800 grafts.

[azazelgs]

Ummm, yeah you could say that your laxity is good. It reminds me of the Italian patient we had in here yesterday. He got 7800 grafts.

 

7800?? Are you serious or are you just mocking with me? Do you think my laxity is that good??

[azazelgs]

Ummm, yeah you could say that your laxity is good. It reminds me of the Italian patient we had in here yesterday. He got 7800 grafts.

 

7800?? Are you serious or are you just mocking with me? Do you think my laxity is that good??and what do you think about my donor density?

[Jotronic]

Why would I mock you? Yes, I'm serious, the patient has 7800 in one session. More could have been taken but it wasn't necessary. His laxity was that good.

 

And I didn't say you could get 7800 as I will never tell anyone they can get that much, whether I think so or not. I said your laxity reminds me of his. I will say this though, with your laxity and the density, which is also quite good, you should be able to get a session bigger than average if it was necessary. You look like a really good candidate.

[azazelgs]

Thank you Joe , I know an actual graft count is not something that can be said through a photo.

 

I know I am becominn a bit annoying but last thing; what is the above average for H-W since you daily go above 5k:)

[Jotronic]

No, you're not annoying. You're asking sensible questions. First, we don't go above 5000 daily. That's a bit much. The high end of what the average patient can get is about 4500 grafts. Once over that then it becomes "above average".

[RCWest]

Now this is a loose scalp!http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163145-lose-scalp.html