I'm New Here (NW6) - So Here We Go!

[Cant decide]

This is concerning. I do think dr. B is one of the best but his overly conservative nature does present a problem in my opinion. I have no issue with a doc having a conservative philosophy but in my opinion, he is over the top. I see so many of his nw 5 to 6 patients going in and getting 1800 to 2200 grafts in the first round. Why? Certainly, in some cases, this makes sense when donor is an issue but these types of patients need more in less surgeries if possible. I think conservative docs certainly have their place but they MUST tell patients that other good docs are out there who WILL give them much more the first time around if their donor will allow. I am a NW 5 and if I just went with my first consultation advice, I would have gotten 3000 grafts instead of the 5000 plus that I ended up with going to dr rahal (and a very small scar) and I would have been back in the chair a year later. I am not trying to debate conservative vs aggressive philosophies since a balance is best but conservative docs turning guys away and leaving these guys to think that's it, it's over, is not right.

 

Bottom line, advanced NW should not waste their time with Bernstein. He is a very good doc and knows his stuff but he is just not a good fit for the guys who need allot. I also think charging for consultations is fine provided it is in depth. Charging for 5 min is not right.

[hairthere]

Dr. Bernstein told me to hold off on surgery too for a year and to start meds. This was after I had a procedure with Karamikian and clearly needed hairline repair. I'm very glad I went to Dr. Feller, otherwise I would have lost another year of my life to hairloss. I don't want to turn this into an anti-Dr. Bernstein thread, but if I were you I would definitely ask for my money back.

[JPGR5]

Well Hi Everybody -

 

First off, thank you for all of your feedback. It's really helping me make some decisions about what I can do and what I need to do. Here's a follow-up...

 

The more I thought about how I was treated by Dr. Bernstein here in NYC - the more mad I got. . So, I wrote him an email last night telling him how upset I was for the way he brushed me off and treated me so poorly with the consultation. I basically told him how traumatic it has been for me to deal with my hair loss and how I felt brushed off like a 'lost cause' and a waste of time - and to be charged $175 for a 5 minute visit.

 

Dr. Bernstein left me a voicemail this morning apologizing for his behavior with me - telling me he didn't mean to come off that way with me and asked me to call him back so we could discuss my case further.

 

I was hesitant at first - I mean, what can a doctor tell me to make a 'no hope' case feel any better? But I did call him back and we had a long conversation about my situation. Again, he apologized for his comments saying he did not mean to come off that way - and he was going to refund my $175 office visit.

 

Next, he talked about my situation. He feels I'm a NW7 - and any attempt for me to get a full head of hair back with my donor supply is not worth the effort. Especially if I wanted to just have the front third of my head done and leave the crown for a hair piece. That would be more maintenance and a problem for me. I told him I understood that and that the consult I had with Bosley over 10 years ago up to the one I had a couple of weeks ago with Dr. True - I was pretty much told the same thing - my crown can't be treated and just to concentrate on the front.

 

Here's where the confusion happened between us...

 

Originally all I wanted to have done what to have my front hairline back. I'm realistic and know that the crown cannot be treated with my level of hair loss. The place where I have my hair piece serviced has many clients who just had their front hairline done (maybe an inch or so) and they wear the hair piece behind it. Gives it a much more natural look. I've seen these clients up close and they look great - nothing beats a natural looking hairline. I used to have my hairline when I started wearing hair systems and it was great. Now my hairline is gone and I don't like the way the front of the system looks.

 

I explained this to Dr. True and with his evaluation, he said he could recreate my front hairline and even treat front third of my head. I told this Dr. Bernstein and he thought I wanted him to do the same thing - (the front third of my head) and he doesn't recommend I do that.

 

All I want to do is to get my front hairline back. I don't care about the top of my head, front third or crown - I know those are a lost cause until a cure for baldness is discovered or if cloning is perfected. Just give me my front hairline back for now and I'll wear hair systems until I can get my natural hair back.

 

Dr. Bernstein thought I wanted to totally ditch the hair piece and get a full head of hair back. He didn't know I just wanted my front hairline back. That he said he could understand and made more sense.

 

Here is his email to explaining himself...

 

Nice speaking with you. Again, I apologize for your unpleasant

experience here. That was not my intent.

As we discussed, I will refund your consult fee.

If you like, please return for another consult so that I can show you,

with a videoscanner, what your donor supply looks like. There will be no

charge for this visit.

 

I have attached the photo taken at the time of your consult (with your

face cropped) so that you can use it on the net to get additional

opinions. Please keep in mind, however, that density measurements are

important if you want to do more than just soften the edge of your

hairpiece and that these cannot be determined from the photo, so please

take all opinions online in that context.

 

So attached is just one photo of the top of my head. I am still waiting for T&D to send me the other photos they took of my head - but this can give everyone here an idea of where I am starting off.

 

Basically this is where I am at now. Now I am going to double check if the 6000 graphs that T&D told me I have is an accurate number (Dr. Bernstein doesn't think it is). But the main thing I want to take care of right now is my front hairline. That's it. Dr. Bernstein thinks that I have enough of a donor supply to recreate my front hairline and give me about a half inch in the front - matching the density of the rest of my hair which will flow nicely to the hair piece system - plus the donor scars will not be that big at all. Also, he can place my hairline where it originally was on my head - I have a few hairs left to show where it was - and since I'm only doing a half inch of hair, he doesn't have to place the hairline higher up on my head. Also, he thinks he can give me a natural soft look with enough density so when I put the hairpiece on, everything will look right.

 

So now the question is do I take Dr. Bernstein up on his offer for another consultation to go into further detail on how I can get my front hairline back...?

 

[hairthere]

Firstly, I am glad Dr. Bernstein did the right thing by you. I did find him to be a nice enough guy and very knowledgeable in my consultation with him.

 

Now, with your level of balding I would want to be as aggressive as possible with HT surgery, if that is indeed the path you decide to go down. There are some really good doctors who do megasessions on NW6-7s, but one name you will hear repeatedly is Hasson and Wong. This clinic has a very large staff and does sessions like this regularly. You should definitely consult with them as well as the other doctors previously mentioned (Feller, Rahal). You want to get as many opinions as possible for a case like yours. Now, you will not achieve a full head of hair (until cloning becomes a reality) but I think your plan is a sound one, and I think with the right doctor you may be able to achieve even more than your expectations.

 

Good luck and keep us in the loop....

 

P.S. Check this guy out http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159577-i-had-my-3rd-hair-transplant-dr-sanusi-umar-5-035-grafts.html

 

He had a similar situation as you and went to H&W and then went to Dr. Umar. He had two megasessions with Dr. Wong and then went to Umar for third mega.

Edited June 6, 2011 by hairthere

[JPGR5]

Thanks HairThere.

 

That guy's 'before' photos look very much like my hair. I would almost use them as a referral to any of the doctor's who do an online consult. In fact, I may have a little less around the edges - but that may be due to the hair piece.

 

As far as 'megasessions' and aggressive doctors, I can see where that would be beneficial. However I'm not sure I want to be that 'aggressive' right now. Dr. True and Dr. Bernstein seem to be on the same page with using body hair for HTs (they're not 'fans' of it) and I have to say neither am I.

 

I personally would like an inch of my front hairline back (including temples) as a start. Give me back my hairline. I can wear the hairpiece behind it for that more natural look until better options and technology comes my way.

 

I will check out Hasson and Wong as well.

[TC17]

JPGR5,

 

Do you have any other photos? How old are you?

[hairthere]

jpgr5, Yes, sorry not suggesting you go the BHT route at all. Imo, BHT should be used as a last resort for repair work. I was pointing you more towards the megasession results from Dr. Wong.

[JPGR5]

Here are my other pictures that I will be sending out for online consultations...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael5577]

You're far more advanced than I was. Still, 6000 grafts would kill the bald look. Talk to Dr.Rahal.

[JPGR5]

And here are the photos of my donor area. Sorry that a few are a little blurry - I'm working alone here!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aaron1234]

JPGR5, I'd have to agree with Dr. Bernstein. I think you are pretty much a NW7. Not only do you need to cover the top/frontal third but you'd have to recreate the lateral humps as well. But like Hairthere said, any NW7 should consult with H&W. If anyone can turn someone in your situation around it would be them. But I think it's a stretch given your level of loss and your donor doesn't look the most dense either. I'd shave down and get a tan... it'd be quite liberating.

[JPGR5]

I realize that there was little hope for me - thus my only wanting about an 1/2 inch to and inch of my front hairline and maybe some temple work. Beyond that, I don't think anything else can be done so I will have to stay with my hair piece until hair cloning comes into play.

 

I sent my photos to H&W and to Dr. Rahal just to get my third and fourth opinions.

 

Basically I'm looking for someone who can give me a great front hairline. That's all I can do for now.

[aaron1234]

Well, if you just want hairline work then add Shapiro Medical Group to your great list as well. All the best to you!

[corvettester]

JPGR5,

 

So you have seen other men in person, in your NW category do what you want to do and it looks good? If so, how many? Did they have similar hair characteristics?

 

I hate to sound pessimistic, but I've never seen anything like what you're talking about... it seems so risky. I mean, you will effectively forego any chances of ever being able to shave your head and get a tan like Dr. B suggested because you'll have a scar.

 

Also, even with half and inch of hair creating a hairline, will it really be that much of a difference? Yes, I'm sure it will soften the transition from you hair system, but will it be noticeable to anyone besides yourself and the very few people who know about your situation? An HT is like opening a whole other can of worms.

 

I think that a lot of guys like us run the risk of over-analysing our situations because we see it up so close and so frequently that it becomes something that it isn't. I recently told a few friends about my HT and they were shocked to learn that I had any recession whatsoever.

 

I didn't believe them at first, I thought that everyone had noticed, but apparently, they hadn't. Don't get me wrong either, we bust on each other for anything. My friends aren't the types to be polite and sensitive about one another's insecurities. To know that it was all in my head, for the most part, was a real eye-opening moment for me, to say the least.

 

After seeing your pics, I just have to wonder how much good a mere half inch in the hairline will really do you. Is there any way you could also post some pics of what you look like with your hair system in? I'd like to see up close what your hairline area looks like with the bonded hair or whatever else you use.

 

I apologize if I sound skeptical or depressing, I don't want to be THAT guy. But it's just that this sounds so risky to me and it seems like such a huge price to pay for such a small victory. And from what I've seen, I'm not a fan of BHT either.

 

Either way, I'd take Bernstein up on his offer for a complimentary consultation. He seems genuine and you might learn something. Good luck to you my friend.

 

Corvettester

[Michael5577]

I find it hard to believe that you have 6000 grafts. That's how much I have and I was never in your category.

[JPGR5]

See - this is all the honest feedback I need when researching all of this.

 

I don't believe I have 6000 grafts either!

 

If worse comes to worst, I'll just have to keep waiting for hair cloning to start happening and keep wearing my hair piece.

 

I've always had a problem with the front of these things though. I have seen others with their own hairline while wearing a hair system and it looks so much better that way.

 

All I can do is keep asking questions and researching if it's worth softening up my front with a hair line or not. Dr. Bernstein said their would be very small scars from where they would take my donor hair to do this.

 

Right now, I think it's worth it so I can go back to the way I looked when I first had my hair system installed while using my natural hairline. Tomorrow, I could wake up and think "I look just fine with my hair" and not do anything.

 

I did see a strip procedure on YouTube (very graphic) and I honestly freaked out! It made me think, "forget it - even if I do have enough hair, I do not want them doing THAT to me!" So I admire and respect all of you who have gone through this procedure!

 

There is an old man in my grief counciling support group at church (my wife passed away a year ago). and he has his front hairline and nothing behind it - bald except for the horseshoe pattern. I thought to myself, 'all he needs to do is put a hair piece behind that and he'd be set!'

 

As far as this being too risky - that's why I'm getting all of these opinions from surgeons and other HT patients. I want to get all the answers and make a reasonable and smart decision about this.

 

Still playing phone tag with Dr. Dorin - so hopefully I can touch base with him tomorrow. Then again, it was Dr. True who told me he thinks he could get 6000 grafts from my head. I honestly don't believe I have that much.

 

After I talk to Dr. Bernstein again and have my other consultations, I'll figure out what to do next.

[RodG]

Hi,

 

You need a personal consult to determine whether a surgeon is able to take 6000 grafts from your donor area. Determining available donor grafts depends on your hair density i.e. grafts per sq centimetre and your scalp laxity. 6000 grafts would be at the top end of what you have available imo.

 

A further point is that not everyone obtains a great result with high yield from a hair transplant. To obtain the illusion of density you need to have the grafts packed 40 - 50 grafts per sq centimetre. A good result appears to come down to physiology of the patient and good quality work from the clinic. Check out some of the no grower posts on the discussion forum.

 

There are no guarantees with a HT but I wish you well.

 

Kind Regards

 

Rod

[JPGR5]

By request, attached here are two hairline photos with me wearing the hair system. One of the pics you can see the front lifting up a little bit (the second one - on the right side of the picture (my left). One of the many times where I don't get all of the bonding in the right places. Also, the bond will get lose and gooey within a week and I'll have to clean the front and try and re-bond it making it look natural. There's also a picture from a few years ago that was taken with me wearing my hair. Keep in mind that this was under professional lighting with a professional head shot photographer. In other photo situations, the front of my hair always looks a bit 'fake' to me. I was thinking if I got my natural hairline back that I would look better in pictures and not worry so much when cameras are out and about...

 

CORRECTION - Just spoke to Dr. True - he said he would give me my hairline back and go back 3 to 4 inches on my head to give me proper density and fullness to match into the hairpiece.

 

Dr. Bernstein said he would just do a half inch for my hairline - so I'm taking him up on his offer for a second (free) consultation. His office even called me this morning to ask when I would like to schedule my consult with him.

 

Still waiting to hear back from Dr. Rahal. Have an appointment with Dr. Feller next week and sent my photos for an online consult with H&W.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2011 by JPGR5

[mahhong]

I don't know much about hair pieces and systems but my honest opinion is that your hair piece looks great.

 

I have to agree with what Corvettester said regarding a HT being a whole new can of worms. As you know it'll require taking a strip out of the back of your head to give you a little bit of hair in your hairline. It may well soften the transition between your hairline and hair piece, but I'm not sure the sacrifice would be worth the result.

 

Your hair piece has a very dense look to it (I mean that in a positive way) and having a few inches of natural hair at a lower density (which it almost certainly would be) seems to me like it might look odd. Even if it does soften or help with the transition I don't think the net benefit will be worth the procedure, which would leave you permanently stuck with both the scar and the transplanted hair (save a repair).

 

From the way you were speaking I thought I'd spot the hair piece a mile off if I'm honest but it looks fine to me. I know you say in ordinary situation it doesn't look quite as natural but I'm sure it still looks great!

 

Although I can see how the HT might help your overall look, the cost and commitment seem to me too high just to improve slightly the overall look of your hair. In addition, as much as I'm sure you have no intention of shaving down your hair at the moment, if that does ever become an appealing option to you an FUT procedure would make it impossible (unless you'd be happy showing the scar).

 

With your level of hairloss my advice would be to stay with what you have and wait out better options. Even if you do have 6000 grafts and you use them all the best you can hope for is a thin layer of coverage over your frontal and mid sections or a denser but much smaller rim of hair for your hairline and the hair system continuing to do 80-90% of the work.

 

That having been said it's definitely worth continuing the consults! You may find an option that works great for you and the doctors you are talking to are the best at large sessions. But my feeling is, with such a dense and professional looking hair piece, the results you'd get from a transplant would not compare, and the hairline option doesn't offer as many benefits as it does cons.

 

To balance this post out, however, your hair piece photos look great! I'm sure 99.9% of people see your hair as very natural and complimentary to your look and I reckon you can rest assured the hair piece is doing a great job of presenting you how you wish to be seen!

 

Hope you find a solution you're comfortable with and best of luck with all the consults and decisions coming up!

[Michael5577]

If I were you I'd just shave my hair. What do you tell a girl when you get intimate? As well, there's the potential of losing your piece through some accident.

 

Can you do sports with the piece on?

[JPGR5]

Well Hi Everybody -

 

Thanks for all your input and feedback.

 

So I've made a decision. Although I like the idea of getting my hairline back, through the consensus here online and from my additional complimentary consultation with Dr. Bernstein yesterday (him making up for the 'quick brush off' he gave me last week), I think it's best that I just sit tight and be patient and wait for something that will benefit me in the long run and more long term in the future and any type of hair transplant for me - whether just the hairline - or plucking every other body hair off of my body for my head is just not worth it.

 

Reasons...

 

1) I'm a NW7 - not a 6. The hair on the sides and back of my hair is good, but fine as far as density. In fact, in the 'very detailed' consult with Dr. Bernstein (he took a lot of time with me this time around) he showed me how I'm still thinning on the sides and back of my hair. Even though I thought things were status-quo for the past 10 years, apparently not and I'm still not done with my hair loss.

 

2) THE SCARS! Everyone has mentioned to me how I will have that permanent scar on the back of my head that I will need to keep covered. If I keep things the way they are now, I will still have the option of wearing a hair piece system - or just shaving my head when I get older and just accepting it. I'll be stuck if I have a scar. I have seen people who have gotten bad hair transplants and still shaved their heads - and you can see the bad scar OR the holes where they plugs were pulled out all scared up on the back of their heads.

 

3) Probably a good thing I saw this, but it is still giving me nightmares - I saw an actual hair transplant surgery on YouTube that was very graphic. I admire and respect all of you who have gone through this surgery because DAMN!!! This surgery I saw was the third surgery this guy was going through and they were taking two strips of hair off of the back of this guy's head. VERY graphic!!! So I was like "NO WAY ARE YOU DOING THAT TO ME!!!" Even if I had enough hair to give me complete coverage, I had second thoughts after seeing that surgery. I would probably still go through with it IF I had enough hair to cover my head - but not for just a few inches to re-create my hairline.

 

4) A lot of people like my hair! Even though it's a hair piece system, overall it's looks pretty good. I complain about the maintenance of it, but it's nothing compared to what I would have to do if I just got my hairline back. Like I said, I would be stuck having to wear something all the time and make sure the scars are covered.

 

As far as being intimate with a woman - since my wife passed away, I've had a couple of intimate moments - where one woman was running her hands through my hair and said "what's that" - I told her and she was cool with it. The second time, the next morning a gal asked me..."so how long have you been wearing that thing?" That one hurt because I thought she could tell by looking. She then said she was trying to be funny and just noticed it when she ran her fingers through my hair. She didn't notice it when looking at me - in fact, she always complimented my hair. The women I do meet (whether intimate or just being friends) usually tell me they like my hair, so I guess I'm just paranoid wondering 'what if they notice' because I know it's there.

 

Michael5577 - I won't shave my head because I'm one of those guys who looks worse with no hair at all. I have to have something there. And yes, I can play sports and work out at the gym and what not with no problems. My only 'worry' is swimming because the front can lift up. The rest of the hair bonded on my head will stay on, but the front is the part with the most maintenance. That's originally why I wanted my front hairline back.

 

Okay - so the way I left it with Dr. Bernstein is I'm not going to do anything now. He said I would be a perfect candidate for hair cloning - where they will take some hair samples from me and clone as much as I need to give me exactly what I want - with no scarring. The only problem is - hair cloning is not a reality yet. Dr. Bernstein said the research is moving 'very slowly' so it's going to be a while. I'll check back in 10 more years but until that technology is reality - I should stick with what I've got.

 

Dr. Bernstein also complimented me on my 'hair' and said he would never know it was a hair piece. I guess that's saying something.

 

So to keep this youthful look I've got going for me (I'm 42 - yet people think I am between 27 and 32 - because of my my 'hair' and I get compliments on it) and without it I look my age or I will probably look older, I'm not moving forward with any type of transplant.

 

I told Dr. Bernstein that when hair cloning becomes a reality and it is perfected, he can give me a call and we'll talk about what I can do then...

 

...but for now, I'm keeping what I have.

 

Thanks everyone for listening and giving me your feedback. I'm going to keep active on here so I can stay up to date on the latest technology and maybe give some input for fellow NW7's who feel like they have to do 'something' - and not make any mistakes!

[biscuit]

I think Dr Bernstein gave you good advice. There's just too much area to cover and not enough donor. A strip would be risky if your donor area thins out in the future. I personally think you should try the shaved/tanned look. You might be pleasantly surprised by the feedback.

[JPGR5]

I personally think you should try the shaved/tanned look. You might be pleasantly surprised by the feedback.

 

I personally know - and see in person - because I am this actual person - that I stated I DO NOT LOOK GOOD BALD and it makes me very uncomfortable having no hair - something I think everyone on here can relate to.

 

From the compliments I have gotten on my hair piece - it's enough to keep it going. So like I said earlier I'm going to stay with what I've got for now.

[biscuit]

No worries, always go with what you like.

 

I'm just saying the pics you posted on pg3 show a nice noggin. Completely shaved, tanned, with a goatee etc and you'd look pretty good.

[bonkerstonker]

Your system looks amazing i'm not sure why you were wanting to go through a ht just to put a little 1 inch hairline in front but i'm glad you've seen sense now.

 

Just to add if i was you and gonna have a ht i'd of done my full head with the biggest strip possible and used toppik every day but as i said i'm glad you're not going down the ht route for now.

 

Also women running fingers through your hair issue....Maybe you could tell them not to touch it because it makes it scruffy and hard to style after being messed up. That is what i've always said to girls even at school before my hair started thining so the excuse is real for me. when my hair started thinning it became even more true so i just acted as normal with new girls and they always got used to it. I suppose with you it's a little harder because it would be not good to see someone regular and get caught as a deceiver but it's good for 1 night stands.

Edited June 11, 2011 by bonkerstonker