prp injections DONT DO IT!! its a potentially negligent and criminal activity!!

[nemo.shark]

i hope this palce gives me the fredom of speach to say this to people!!

 

Im a scientist, I came across the fact that prp (platelet rich plasma) injections are being used by hair transplant surgeons to treat male pattern baldness, im also suffering hair loss my self and I want my situation fixed! So ive looked in to prp and it took me very little time to come to the conclusion that anyone who injects prp and calls them selves a medially qualified “dr” is potentially committing gross negligence!!!!!!!! If they are injecting this into some one suffering from male pattern baldness!!!!!!!

 

Blood plasma is the part of the blood that suspends the sex hormones!!!!!! In terms of male plasma we are talking DHT & TESTOSTERONE!!!! Enriching plasma in a centrifuge will concentrate those sex hormones!!! And DHT, now we all know what DHT does to your hair follicles now don’t we!!!! So do you think its good idea to have concentrated TESTOSERONE & DHT plasma injected in to your male pattern balding areas!!!!! To give you a visual representation of how much hormones are in blood plasma there is an occasional occurrence in blood banks where plasma from donors is green due to components of oestrogen, this occurs in women who give blood that are pregnant or are on the contraceptive pill. Heres a link with a picture of this occurrence and it demonstrates the hormonal concentration of blood plasma

google "green blood plasma The journal of the American society of anaesthesiologists" for a visual representation of sex hormones in blood plasma

Green Plasma

 

Do not tell me that anyone who calls them selves a doctor does not know this!!! And do not tell me that a doctor does not know about circadian biological rhythms of sex hormone plasma concentrations!!!! So yeah book your appointment with your physician at some time in the afternoon when your 5ar activity is at its greatest so the blood they draw and centrifuge has the highest concentration of TESTOSTERONE & DHT and pay lots of money to have it injected in to your scalp and bind to your hair follicles cells!!! And go bald sooner then you can loose more hair and be sold a strip surgery!!! Any one who calls them selves a doctor who has done this to anyone with out taking blood tests to determine DHT levels in blood plasma in my opinion is negligent and potentially criminal!! The blood should only be taken and centrifuged at a time of day when TESTOSTERNAE & DHT blood concentrations are at there lowest circadian rhythm and only taken from people who are temporarily taking the best and strongest 5ar inhibiting drugs!!!!!!!!!!!! This is without question and should be the very least that is done!! And even then TESTOSTERONE will always be present and T binds to the same receptors!!!

 

If prp contains growth factors then and platelets are beneficial for hair loss then T & DHT needs to be completely removed from the plasma!!! Look in to dialysis to see if this can be done!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now!!!!!! If you want prp to work!!!!

 

It was extremely worrying when I listened to this radio broad cast and this surgeon was saying if you have got hair then come and get these injections!!! Are you telling me that hair transplant surgeons don’t know that plasma contains the highest concentrations of DHT & TESTOSTERONE!!!! and centrifuging plasma concentrates it even further still?? Yet they want to inject a concentrate of those two known hormones that actually cause mpb in to peoples existing follicles that are already undergoing miniaturisation from DHT & TESTOSTERONE and charge people money for it!!!! under the pretence that its beneficial. Totally inexcusable!!!!!!!

 

(promotional link removed)

Edited April 21, 2011 by nemo.shark

[nemo.shark]

i came across the information that plasma is the carrier of sex hormones and discussed this with a friend who worked at a blood bank in the uk, who told me about the green plasma issue from women taking hormones and that where pregnant, injecting this concentrated in centrifuge is crazy for male pattern baldness!!! when i seen the pictures of the green plasma it confirmed visually the amount of hormones contained in plasma!!! the beneficial factors contained in plasma for hair growth if there are any need to be further processed for this to work as it might for mpb!! membrane filters even further centrifuging and isolation of the exact beneficial factors in the plasma for hair growth and maybe even cultivation in of those factors in a medium are what is needed for this to work at any level to grow hair in mpb!!!!!

Edited April 20, 2011 by nemo.shark

[nemo.shark]

its pretty interesting to me that 90 people have looked at this and not one has commented on it, unlike what happened in another thread i started where it was jumped on by all the paid representatives of clinics in the defence of them and their actions and attempting to discredit my comments, why has the same thing not happened on here? hmm could it be that im totally right by saying what i have said in this thread and all of you lot on here are exercising your right of "no comment" for legal reasons?? well i think it must be!

 

come on "bill managing publisher" are you telling me that this does not concern you in the slightest and you have nothing to say on this issue?? i have even seen some surgeons injecting this in their own mpb heads on you tube and one of the guys in the other thread you all jumped on came up with the argument that "surgeons are incredibly intelligent" yeah these guys are geniuses i bet they don't have much time because they are all competing with each other on the Mensa web sight.. these guys are really up there with einstein, Micheal Faraday and Leonardo da vinci.

[bonkerstonker]

Most of think it's a load of bull crap anyway and in my opinion so is acell. There's only a very small amount of surgeons using it which are mainly fue drs. Prp and acell is very old news and most Drs have stopped using it.

[nemo.shark]

well the fact they started using it and promoting it and charging people for it when it was unproven to have any beneficial effect, in my opinion is totally unethical practice and the fact that it contains an enriched form of the two most scientifically proven hormones to cause hair loss is indefensible gross negligence as well as malpractice if they did not take in to consideration the content or concentration of male hormones in plasma and not try to rectify or reduce it any way by drugs which are freely available to them and that they fully understand! or even take in to account what time of day they made the appointments to draw blood so it was at a time of day when your dht and testosterone were at there lowest, anyone given those injections with out this being done or taken in to account and was not made aware of the dht and testosterone levels of plasma before they had the injections is perfectly entitled to claim compensation and sue them as it is totally indefensible.

Edited April 22, 2011 by nemo.shark

[Blake Bloxham]

Nemo,

 

Are you certain that the centrifugation process doesn't appropriately separate said hormones from the platelets? In your 'green plasma' example, it didn't seem like the blood was centrifuged (there would be no reason to centrifuge whole blood for transfusion) and thus taking it from a female who was at a hormone enriched point in her monthly cycle and not separating out any of the blood elements doesn't quite seem to correlate to a process where platelets are concentrated through a double centrifugation process??

 

Furthermore, I'm asking you, respectfully, to not specifically 'call out' other members in this thread. This type of behavior is a violation of the terms of service you agreed to when signing up for an account and will not be tolerated. If you've provided sound scientific fact here, then there's no reason to resort to any sort of inappropriate behavior to make your point.

[nemo.shark]

hey future if its wrong to call out for other members to comment on a thread i was unaware of this, but dont see why its that much of a big deal to do so?? i was only trying to get someones opinion on the subject and dont see whats wrong that, but i will refrain from doing this again now i know its not allowed.

 

as for the centrifuge it all depends on molecular weight of the hormones in question and the specific centrifuge procedure and equipment used, molecular weight of hormones would be quite light com-paired to plasma its self and while suspended in plasma and the ""harvest"" system i have seen them using firstly spins the blood fast to separate the red cells from the plasma and then slow for a shorter duration of time where centrifugal force is less where the blood container tips the plasma in to the second compartment and as the platelets are heavy they sink to the bottom, but still a greater percentage of plasma goes into this section of the container than platelets, where it is then mixed together in a syringe for injection. as the hormones are light they would most probably be at highest concentrations at the top and middle of the plasma and this exactly what falls in to the collection compartment and is being injected into peoples head, so yeah im sure whats being injected isn't only platelet rich plasma but dht and testosterone richer plasma and should not be injected in to mpb areas with out an attempt at least to limit its concentration through making the patient take strong high dose 5ar inhibitors at the time the blood is drawn and also having it drawn at a time when bio rhythms of t and dht are at there lowest daily blood concentrations. this is really the least which should be done. i recommend testing each level of plasma for hormones t and dht to confirm where they are in highest concentrations.

 

regardless of whether the hormones in plasma are female or male again it depends on molecular weight the plasma in the photo is green from female hormones yes but i think im right by saying males have an equivalent amount of male hormones in blood to what women have for female hormones. they have high estrogen's and derivatives of compared to men and men have high testosterone and derivatives of testosterone's compared to women so the green plasma is a fairly good visual of what testosterone's would look like in plasma if they were visible.

Edited April 23, 2011 by nemo.shark

[Blake Bloxham]

Nemo,

 

I've used centrifuges countless times, and while I understand what you're saying with regard to molecular weight, I'm simply unsure that this is just unaccounted for when creating a sample for PRP. As I'm sure you're well aware, PRP has been utilized for various other therapies in medicine for a good number of years, and I can only assume that if you were using the treatment for something like advanced wound healing, you would not simply concentrate every other substance in the plasma with a similar molecular weight to the platelets and inject it where necessary. I'm fairly certain they centrifuge the material twice, and I'm uncertain if any other type of reactions are done to specifically isolate the platelets, but I don't think it's unreasonable to see how this type of isolation treatment could exist.

 

Second, again, I'm not so sure that male hormones fluctuate at the level of female's during certain phases of the menstrual cycle (I don't think you'll find shifts in the concentration of testosterone in phasic levels like you would estrogen and progesterone before something like ovulation, for example), and my point regarding the 'green plasma' was as follows:

 

You're stating that the plasma turning green is a result of hormones in the blood - specifically androgens such as estrogen and testosterone. This may be true. However, in the whole blood (plasma + hemocrit unaltered) sample stored at the blood bank, the blood has NOT been treated with any sort of centrifugation or concentrating mechanism and thus, it's not a good model for the level of any type of hormone, especially a comparable androgen, in a sample treated with centrifugation.

 

Frankly, I'm not advocating the usage of PRP as a hair loss treatment whatsoever. I'm simply curious as to some of the assumptions you're making here and, with all due respect, I'd be absolutely shocked if you were the first person to consider some of these issues before PRP was utilized by many physician scientists in various medical fields.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Future_HT_Doc

[nemo.shark]

Future your right they have been utilised in other therapy’s but that implies the centrifuges they are currently using have been specifically developed for treating mpb or hair growth and nothing could be further from the truth, they were developed for speeding up healing in injury’s and an aid for phsysio therapy and not specifically for treating mpb or hair growth and that’s why I am totally sure that NO scientific thought has gone in to the development of the centrifuges currently being used by hair transplant surgeons in regard to what they are using them for and no scientific thought has gone in to the development of the centrifuges in terms of this specific treatment. It’s a fact the plasma contains high amounts of the hormones dht & t and it’s a fact that centrifuging plasma will concentrate them further still.

 

Yeah you’re right men don’t have a menstrual cycle like women, but all mammals including humans have a biological circadian rhythm, where androgen concentrations in blood plasma are high at one point of the day and lower at others. these concentrations are quite pronounced they can be double or treble the concentrations at one point in the day compared to what they are when you go to sleep at night and im sure NONE of these injections have been done at midnight! They have been done at a time of day when the androgens known to kill hair follicles are at their highest concentrations and then they concentrated further still in the centrifuge and injected right in to the place where they will do most harm in terms of hair loss in mpb.

 

Future the photo of the green plasma is a good indicator of the hormonal content of plasma, you say it isn’t because the blood plasma in the blood bank has not been centrifuged. I ask you this then, how do you think they removed the red cells from it to then make it into plasma? There is only one way to do this and that is to centrifuge it! The picture of the green plasma IS plasma that has been centrifuged to remove the red cells and that is what it looks like after it’s been centrifuged and ass you can see it still contains hormones. If you wanted to remove those hormones from the plasma using a centrifuge, I guarantee there isn’t a centrifuge in existence that is powerful or fast enough to do it effectively; it would have to be huge and extremely powerful! I estimate it would need around 100000000000000000000g force or more to do it.

 

What you say at the end of your post I will say this to, if im not the first to realise this then surgeons have used it for mpb not negligently but deliberately with the knowledge that they are injecting people suffering from mpb with a concentrated form of the exact hormones responsible for the condition of mpb, which could be considered criminal.

 

If they didn’t know the hormone content of plasma, then they are guilty of gross negligence.

[Blake Bloxham]

Nemo,

 

For some reason, when you mentioned the 'green plasma' and said blood bank, I was thinking (and as you can tell from my original post) that this was whole blood (hematocrit and plasma) not separated plasma that was still showing elevated hormone levels. I don't know why I didn't see this when it was titled 'green plasma' (not green whole blood), but that's my mistake.

 

Additionally, I do think it would be interesting to see if PRP prepared for hair restoration injections was done differently (even simply at the centrifugation level) than for wound healing, orthopedic purposes, et cetera.

 

Unfortunately, I knew of a practitioner in the U.S. who was working with PRP injections for hair loss in a clinical setting, but it appears as if he's moved on to strictly researching hair loss and PRP for a biotech company and I can't find the references he used to have on his website.

 

I'm uncertain how many physicians who frequent the forums utilize or have used PRP in their practices, but it would be interesting to inquire how they prepare the solution and whether or not they believe the hormone concentration levels in the injected plasma are an issue.

 

Again, at this point, it seems as if PRP does not fall into the category of proven hair restoration treatments (like minoxidil, finasteride, and, when appropriate, surgical intervention), but it will be interesting to see how its usage progresses and whether or not the issue you bring up has been considered before OR if it's something that was understood and compensated for much earlier in the process.

 

Until then, feel free to keep the community updated on what you find, but do remember to keep things civil and fact-based!

[nemo.shark]

It would be interesting if you could get in touch with the scientist you mention and find out where he got to in his research, I do think there are merits with prp but not how it is currently being used, there needs to much more purification of the growth factors that may be beneficial like vascular endothelial growth factors and in terms of mpb the total removal of androgens before its injected as a minimum consideration before its used in this regard.

[Bronte]

Hey nemo shark,Thanks for the good information.I was thinking if having prp treatments,but after reading your post I'm not going down that road..In the back of my mind I was feeling something isn't right now I know the truth..Thanks again.

[jetfan11]

Please don't do this. I had prp with Dr Niedbalski along with 1600 grafts. I had permanent shockloss of existing grafts in areas he didn't even graft. All the areas he injected prp caused massive shockloss that never grew back a year later. PRP and Niedbalski destroyed my 2 perfectly good hair transplants.

 

This stuff doesnt cure baldness. Its complete BS. Just another way for HT surgeon to sound smart and charge more money. Ashamed I fell for it. Dont be next.

[greatjob]

I doubt nemo.shark will reply to this old thread, but in the off chance; nemo you say you are a scientist, what field do you work/study in?

[m0dthispny]

wait is PRP same as a cell?

[abcd0000]

I am reluctant to read, let alone take seriously, posters who use that much exclamation points and that little paragraph breaks.

[Anonymous]

can I honestly take this seriously ? There's some pretty well known HT doctors out there that are still offering prp therapy.

[KD2020]

For what it's worth - I had my surgery done by Dr. Cooley in April of this year (2014) and he used both PRP and Acell, and I'm VERY happy with my results. I'm at 5 months, which by the growth timeline I found on this forum says I should be around 40%, and even if that's all that happens I'd be happy with it - but I believe I have even more to come.

[hairweare]

Utilizing an unproven experimental treatment is not unreasonable as long as the patient has provided informed consent and understands the alternatives. Charging for it is a whole different matter and not something I would do myself.

[hairweare]

Utilizing an unproven experimental treatment is not unreasonable as long as the patient has provided informed consent and understands the risks vs benefits. Charging for it is a whole different matter and not something I would do myself.

Edited September 24, 2014 by hairweare

[glocktop]

Im a scientist, I came across the fact that prp ...

 

What kind of scientist are you?

[Blake Bloxham]

I think studying the usefulness of PRP and ACell as a graft storage medium would be helpful. In my opinion, this would probably be the best way to integrate these products into practice.

[hairweare]

I agree, but the patient should not be funding that study. Without evidence establishing it's efficacy the physicians who currently employ it are primarily enjoying the revenue stream but have no incentive to prove whether or not it is useful.

[KD2020]

A good overview by Dr. Cooley here, scroll down:

 

Highlights from the 2013 ISHRS (International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery) Scientific Meeting in San Francisco, California

 

Highlights from the 2013 ISHRS Scientific Meeting | Hair Loss Q & A

[gillenator]

Here's my two cents on the subject.

 

I have never supported the use of PRP injections for the purpose of treating MPB. IMHO, it's absurd. There was a thread that came up several months ago where an individual was considering paying a HT surgeon over $6,000 for one treatment, and I immediately posted my comments and warned him against it for two reasons.

 

The first reason was that there is no clinical substantiation nor any scientific proof that PRP injections are appropriate or effective in treating MPB. Second, that I truly felt that he was being taken for a financial ride...:rolleyes:

 

PRP is primarily used for facilitating injuries, (mostly athletic related), in the joints like a knee, shoulder, elbow, etc., and the average cost for one treatment is between $1200 and 1800 is the US. It is not covered on most health insurance plans as a stand alone treatment. From what I read, most of the HT clinics offering PRP were charging an average of $500 to $700 for each treatment, providing they used their own equipment.

 

I know roughly one year ago that PRP was being tried and tested for healing benefits in the HT surgery process but again, I do not advocate the use of PRP injections for treating MPB whatsoever. It is also being tested for stimulating hair growth yet there is still nothing that I would consider "concrete" to substantiate the treatments and the expense of those treatments.

 

It became another buzz in the forums and since has died out undoubtedly because enough consumers realized it was a waste of their money...:rolleyes: