New guy here, going in tomorow and Im terrified.

[orlhair1]

I feel bad for you.....2500 grafts done right should have yielded a nice result for you. The top surgeons make sure your expectations are in line with what they believe they can achieve for you.

[orlhair1]

I feel bad for you.....2500 grafts done right should have yielded a nice result for you. The top surgeons make sure your expectations are in line with what they believe they can achieve for you.

[aaron1234]

To answer Aaron, I went back for only one reason, I dont have the money to try again with another clinic and it was free, figured it could only get better even if marginally and not likely worse.

 

Not good. Ask TTDS if he's glad he went back to Epstein for a second round. I'm sure as heck glad I didn't return to my first surgeon who f'd me up.

[Bucksred]

I had FUT strip, didn't feel a thing. The injections are the worst part. I think it looks brutal.

Regards

Bucks

[Bucksred]

The above was in reply to you being worried about FUT (on page 1)

Did not notice the other pages, ooooppss sorry.

 

In reply, I hope the results are good for you.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Stevilkinevil,

 

Welcome to Hair Transplant Hell! The game show where contestants let hacks (masquerading as doctors) slice flesh from the back of their heads in exchange for a short-term relief of their long-term insecurities!

 

Now you too can spend all your future years and money trying to correct a colossal mistake! No doubt about it. You will continue to have procedures and undergo treatments as you try to keep up with your future hair loss. As opposed to just having shaved your balding head and being happy, you will now be constantly obsessed with your hair and, as an added plus, constantly be fretting about the scar in the back of your head. Not just for a month or a year or a decade, but for the rest of your life. It’s just bang for your bucks thrills and chills and excitement!

 

But wait, there’s more! Your hairs are going to go thin and grey. As they do, they will provide less and less coverage to your thinning dome. And there’s even a high likelihood that you thin out in the donor region, making the scar visible to everyone around you. Isn’t that fantastic?

 

You now have the amazing opportunity to regret your hair transplants for the rest of your life. All the while your friendly hair transplant surgeon lounges around his mansion watching the giant flat-screen that you helped pay for. And as you suffer over the years, he won’t care. And even if he does, there will be nothing he can do about it. Isn’t that just super?

 

Thanks for playing the game. Sorry it didn’t work out. And as a parting gift, we’ll give you a bottle of Toppik and a month’s supply of minoxidil. Good luck to ya!

 

But seriously…

 

You screwed up in buying into the lies and deceit of the industry. Welcome to the club! For every hair transplant success story out there, there are ten guys just like us that didn’t get what they signed up for. And the majority of success stories play with camera angles and use concealer to mask the fact that hair transplants really aren’t the answer to the problem. The best cases like Bill and Joetronic have gone in for 9,000 plus grafts. To get all the way out there, you take tremendous risks. Some make it. Most don't. The ones that make it become cheerleaders for the industry. The ones that don't live out their lives in regret.

 

The simple facts:

 

1. There isn’t enough hair ( maximum 25%-40% of the original density trying to fill in 100%)

 

2. Transplanting every single one of those hairs is extremely difficult and risky. There is ZERO margin for error. Even one failed or mediocre procedure means the war is pretty much over.

 

And they’ll always give you some reason why it went wrong. (For you, it was smoking. For TTDS, it was his wig.)

 

3. More procedures means more widening of the donor scar and more pain. This one I have first hand experience with.

 

4. In the long-run the transplanted hairs are going to go thin and white. In that state, they will not provide adequate coverage. There is nothing you can do to stop them from turning that way. It’s only a matter of time.

 

5. The combined effect of all of the above points is going to leave you looking like you have a few weeds on the top of your head. You’ll be lucky if : 1. the sides and back don’t drop further down; 2. the entire donor region doesn’t just thin out, making the scar visible.

 

Please read all of my previous posts, if you want to get the complete unvarnished truth about what you are going through. Don’t delude yourself into thinking this had any other outcome than what you are going through now. You just get a chance to deal with it now in your 30’s than later in your 40’s.

 

So another one bites the dust! Welcome to the nightmare!

 

Get ready to waste a lot of money, time, and mental energy on a lost cause.

Edited May 5, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[Stevelkinevil]

good lord, that really brightens a fellas day. Now I am crossing my fingers as my scar healed very well the first time to the point I could buzz it down to a 2-3 clip and not see it, hope this new one heals as well. I honestly got caught up in the photos ect. and am now obviously quite regretful. I can tell you this I don't have the money or the inclination to continue messing with this dream of having back my once great hair. I already had a large hat collection and its apparent to me at this point it wont exactly be collecting dust.

[the-bald-reality2012]

Stevilkinevil,

 

With respect to your scar, I can speak with confidence. I base this confidence on my own experience with a widened scar. In addition, I have read extensively on scar widening and have spoken with several plastic surgeons and dermatologists on the issue. I have recently done scar revision surgery (with fractal laser and Botox treatment following it) so my knowledge is up to date and first-hand.

 

You have done two surgeries. The width of the scar should hold if you stop here. I was fine on surgery #2. It was only when I proceeded to surgery #3 that the scar started widening (I remember feeling extreme pain for months after surgery #3). Surgery #4 was the breaking point, where it went from somewhere around 6 mm to 2.5 mm (1 inch!). I read extensively on the issue and my experience was pretty common for those that push for the higher ends of the transplant limits (7,000+ grafts). It's only logical. If you keep cutting into the back of the head and scalp laxity disappears, the scar will widen as you move your head and stretch that pliable scar tissue. How HT doctors get us to believe otherwise is a marvel of industry marketing.

 

Your long-term prognosis is like everyone else's prognosis here: you just don't know. In addition to the hair continuing to fall out, your hair will change texture, color, and overall general quality over time. All of this will impact how you choose to comb and style your hair. However, after 2 surgeries, you can still cut your hair quite short and the scar shouldn't be visible. So at least you have that.

 

It seems the most important positive for you is your psychology. You are willing to stop and go no further. That is a huge plus. A lot of people here (like myself) got locked in and couldn't stop. We ended up with huge donor scars or poor results long term. You have a scar back there but it will be small and you will have styling options. You're smart to stop here and go no further.

 

In the end, HT's are a scam because of the triple threat of lies. These are: (1.) Propecia will stop your hair loss (a lie, it won't really work in the long run); (2.) the pictures they show us are actual (a lie, they are shot in controlled lighting and setting); (3.) unrepresentative examples (we are shown a handful of the hundreds of surgeries a doctor does each year and not all of them).

 

It took me years to figure out what a scam HT's are. And not only to figure it out but to accept it. For years, I thought I did something wrong. I blamed myself and refused to blame my doctor or the industry at large for lying to me. You accomplished this realization in one year (You're right. That smoking excuse they gave you is just more BS. And if smoking was a problem, they should have warned you beforehand). I congratulate you on being smarter and more realistic than I was.

 

You've learned to accept. That means you're more than halfway home. You slide and touch home plate when you let go of your insecurities and concentrate on the other areas of self-image (money, intelligence, a good personality). I'm still trying to round third base on that one myself.

 

Good luck to you.

Edited May 6, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[the-bald-reality2012]

I posted this pictures in a running discussion with another member. I got them off of the Hair Transplant Network.

 

These pictures really show what a scam HT's are.

 

One of the recommended doctors on this website (Carlos Wesley) transplanted 2200 hairs on this 57 year old man. As you can see, the cosmetic result is practically nil. How can anyone look at this and think this is worth so much money and physical scarring? Was this man satisfied after his procedure? If so, then he has got to be delusional.

 

Hair transplant doctors talk about the "illusion" of density when they should refer to it as the "delusion" of density.

 

If these pictures don't make the case against hair transplants then none will.

 

This is what awaits so many of us down the road when we are older and the hairs have all died.

 

So many people here are so screwed and they don't even know it yet. Vanity and insecurity have steered too many of us down an eventual catastrophe.

 

 

Truly, hair transplants are pure evil and hair transplants are merchants of suffering.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2012 by the-bald-reality2012

[Time to do something]

While I am not happy at the present time with the density of my hair transplants I need to say I've had four and my scar is minimal. I can't see it unless I look for it. I asked my stylist if she could see it and she said it was thin. I think the outcome depends on the individual and the surgeon involved. I do agree that I beleive the majority of patients are not happy with their results unless maybe they are low on the NW scale and those guys are usually young and their hair loss progresses further over time.

[TakingThePlunge]

the-bald-reality2012

 

I have been following your posts with interest and I know that Bill has already responded to one or two of your comments.

 

I understand that you have had a bad experience and you have a justifiable reason to be unhappy with your own hair transplant. However, you need to understand that your experience is not shared by everyone. Your posts are heavily biased and accusatory. You are making accusations against some doctors with immaculate reputations based not only for their skill but also for the care and concern for the patients they treat. Some of the doctors recommended here are also hair transplant recipients themselves (Feller, Rassman, Alexander to name three). Thus, they know all too well what we are going through.

 

You have taken it upon yourself to pull an example of Dr. Wesley's work not once but twice and repost it out of context in order to support your agenda. I have supplied the link below presented by Dr. Wesley himself. At the time this result was presented, the patient was only 9.5 months post op.

 

I have no doubt that Dr. Wesley adequately explained to this gentleman what he could expect given his donor supply, degree of hair loss and hair caliber. Evidently he chose to go forward with a very small procedure with the aim of reframing his face. The question here is not whether or not you or I would judge the result to be worth the money and time but rather what the patient thinks. From a technical perspective the procedure did what it was designed to do. A photo of the very fine surgical scar is also presented here.

 

For the record, if I were this patient, it would probably not have meant much to me to move so little hair but I understand fully if he feels better. That is the point behind cosmetic procedures of any kind. I may get a nose job to make a minor change in my appearance and feel tons better for it. Others may look at me and think I look virtually the same as I did before. Again, we are here to judge technical results and not the motivations of the patients behind the results.

 

"Frosty" Hair for the Holidays

 

I'd also like to comment on some of the statements you've made throughout your various postings and thread hijackings.

 

"The truth is that hair transplant as a science is a failure and hair transplants are a collosal risk."

Only partially correct - the science of hair transplantation is tried and true. Follicular unit hair transplantation in the hands of a skilled and experienced physician has a success rate between 96% and 98%. Yes, as in any surgical procedure (cosmetic or not) there is risk. The purpose of this site is to minimize risk by helping patients make informed decisions. Eliminating risk is not possible.

 

"The truth is that a man can look great bald. Ask Jason Statham, Bruce Willis, or Andre Agassi."

The truth is that some men look great bald. Others do not. Some want hair regardless. If you've spent enough time here then you know that most veteran members will advise those seeking hair transplantation to give shaving a try first. I tried it. I hated it. I am happy with my decision to have surgery. Shaving is the cheapest, safest and easiest way to go. If it works for someone, I think that's great.

 

"I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I'm sure you can understand why I find the entire hair transplant industry to be deceptive.

This statement makes it perfectly clear that you are not simply here to share your own experience and also consider the experiences of others with an open mind. You have an anti-hair transplant message to spread and along with it quite a bit of misinformation.

 

"I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I'm sure you can understand why I find the entire hair transplant industry to be deceptive.

 

There is no shortage of unethical hair transplant surgeons in the world willing to dupe people into their chairs. Again, that is the purpose for this site. Perhaps you have not read the some of the postings by members who have visited a recommended physician eager to undergo a procedure only to be turned away because they are not suitable candidates.

 

The bottom line is that hair transplants work for many men. They will not work for many others. Choosing a skilled and ethical surgeon is the single most important factor to receiving a quality hair transplant. Whether or not a given patient will be pleased with their results will depend in part on having realistic expectations given their current degree of hair loss, possibility for future balding, donor supply density, hair caliber and scalp laxity. No one here is making any attempt to hide that fact so perhaps you should do a little more reading and a bit less ranting before making such claims.

[Stevelkinevil]

My guess is its somewhere in the middle. My experience obviously thus far has not been a good one, lots of money and discomfort and very disappointing results. You would think 2500 supposed grafts packed into 1/4 or less of hairline would yield a good result, sadly it has not. It was something I couldn't afford to do in the first place and a bad decision. The techs are young girls and likely inexperienced (as evidenced by repeating the words "shit" and "damn" every couple minutes while working) and all the reassurance in the world from the clinic doesn't put hair on my head. So in the end it was a $3300 mistake, and I will have hopefully a mild scar and still have to comb my hair the same way, cool? certainly not, not even close, but is this going to ruin my life? nah. Hell, im still a decent looking fellow, got a GF for the last 5 years who's 11 years younger and attractive so I will be just fine. I am angry and I will make sure my experience is out there with this clinic assuming the results of this touch up are a failure (again its painfully apparent already they will be) but that's that. I think I have learned that I should not "chase the dragon" so to speak. I am sure there are great docs out there as evidenced by one of them giving free work to a patient who wasn't even theirs to begin with and I really commend him not only as a Doc but as a man, kudos to you sir!.

Really in the end I have myself to blame, I got a used car salesman feeling from the place right away but was so obsessed with having the hair of my youth back that I made a rash decision. I knew better, deep down but went for it anyway, such is life I suppose. I will take some pics here later and show you guys, but you really can see where I was in the OP and where the original grafts went in, and like I said all I accomplished was going from receded hairline look to "oh man that guys really going bald!" unless I carefully comb it to conceal the new hairline.

[orlhair1]

That is unfortunate.....no doubt a terrible experience for you. For others reading this thread however, it is important to realize that is not the experience at a top clinic.......in fact, just the opposite. Yes there are risks with any surgey, but as David said the success rate it's extremely high with reputable, ethical surgeons. Additionally, the entire experience is positive with top clinics. It is too bad that there are so many bad eggs in the industry. That is why research is so critical and this forum is a great place for that.

[Time to do something]

My experience has not been favorable either other than the fact I was offered two free surgeries from Dr. Shapiro. I have hair but look like a severely balding guy with very low density hair. I don't understand how that can be after 9000 grafts and only the front 2/3 of my scalp addressed. My only hope if I ever want to ditch the hair piece is SMP and concealer.

[TakingThePlunge]

I've shared this before elsewhere but I'll say it again. I began losing my hair around 18 or 19. I had long hair and literally no one knew I was receding unless I shared that with them but it ate me up inside. I wanted desperately to be able to pull my hair back in a ponytail and have a low, straight hairline like all the other guys I saw my age. In the early 90's at the age of about 22 or so I traveled with a balding buddy of mine from Phoenix to LA to consult with Bosley. I was young, desperate and poor but would have done almost anything to make my wish come true if they had offered me a procedure. But, to their credit, they turned me away. They told me I was not yet a candidate and that I simply had a mature hairline. The funny thing is that I can remember the doctor or rep being in his 50's and having a super, Brad Pitt style hairline that made me green with envy.

 

Not content with their answer, I later consulted with Dr. Shelley Friedman. Remember, this was still the early 90's. There was no Internet, no HTN, no good way to evaluate docs or even hold them accountable. Dr. Friedman told me the same thing Bosley told me. He told me I was not yet a candidate and to come back in about 10 years to see how things developed. He took some polaroids and sent me on my way.

 

Still not happy and desperate for my juvenile hairline, I next went to a really shady looking dump in a questionable part of town. Here they told me I needed $10,000 worth of work. If I remember correctly, they wre charging about $12 to $15 per graft in those day. I readily agreed and asked them if they had financing or a payment plan to which they replied in the negative. I was totally deflated and went on to learn to live with my hair as it was for the next two decades.

 

I always wonder what horrors I would have endured if I'd actually had the cash for that procedure. I would probably be a repair patient today with a very bitter taste in my mouth toward the industry. But, instead, I can now understand and respect the ethical doctors that turned me away and also understand that there are always unscrupulous individuals in every field ready to exploit you. Ultimately, we have to be responsible for our own decisions. We cannot rely on others to have our best interest in mind. This is especially true where money is concerned.

 

Yes, I am compensated for my work here but his is a part time job for me and not how I make my living. I would not be part of this community if I did not believe that its intentions were pure and honorable. I'm here not to promote hair transplants but to ensure that anyone considering them has all the information they need to make an informed decision. I can say the same for Pat, Bill and Blake as well.

 

Hair transplants are not a cure. They are a compromise.

[aaron1234]

So in the end it was a $3300 mistake.

 

$3300? Man, I hate to keep dumping on you but you get what you pay for. Cost should never be a factor. It was for me and I also made that mistake. I could have went to an amazing doc for $10K my first round, instead I went to a mediocre doctor (still one recommended on the site at the time) for $6K. I didn't have the money at the time. I should have waited and saved for an extra year. This latest procedure you got from them again probably won't turn out well either. Start saving up for a repair job with an elite clinic. Hopefully you will still have enough donor left to turn this bad situation around.

[Time to do something]

We may not all agree with each other but I find it concerning that the Baldreality2012 was banned from here. How do we know we are getting all viewpoints if some are not allowed to speak?

[TommyLucchese]

I'm no expert on the matter but does the fact you did not go to a reputable clinic explain for the unsatisfactory results? I saw on another forum this clinic was mentioned as having a "winter discount", which they said was the warning sign right there. Again, no expert, but I've read here countless times about not letting cost make you settle for a lesser clinic.

 

Sad to hear about your situation anyway, good luck.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ttds,

 

There is a big difference between stating a point of view and spreading misinformation based on a clear agenda. This poster made it clear that his mission was to persuade people from undergoing hair transplant surgery. In order to accomplish his mission, he posted knowingly false comments even after he was corrected on several posts. This is in violation of our terms of service.

 

Peddling misinformation for one's own agenda is a detriment to newbies looking for sound information. This is just as true for spammy salesman type posters we've removed touting their product as a miracle cure. This would also apply for those trying to sell a hair transplant to everyone when not everyone is a qualified candidate.

 

The Bald Reality had some likable qualities and realistically, we can all feel badly for him for having a poor experience. But this doesn't give him the right to peddle knowingly false information and become a poison in the well for those looking for legitimate input.

 

At the end of the day, our goal is to protect and preserve the right to free speech and genuine information. But free speech isn't free nor is it protected by US law if a poster is making untrue and knowingly false statements.

 

I wish the Bald Reality the best in his future endeavors and hope he can move on with his life.

 

Bill

[Time to do something]

I must have missed some of his posts or not known there was misinformation in them. If that is the case then I understand. I’ve been honest about my results and not always a cheerleader for hair transplants and you never kicked me off. I can relate to him. He is bitter and devastated after what he went through. I hope everyone here sticks to facts though so everyone is getting a clear picture of the industry, good and bad.

[Bill - Seemiller]

TTDS,

 

I know you and he connected which may be why you've missed some of his posts containing misinformation. But ultimately, he did admit that his sole purpose here was to persuade people from ever undergoing hair transplant surgery, criticized a number of members and their results and constantly made a number of misleading comments even after they've been refuted by several members of our community.

 

All members are welcome to share their genuine experiences and opinions. But making knowingly false statements and peddling an agenda that's harmful to those seeking legitimate information is unacceptable, thus, he's been suspended.

 

Now I think it's time that we bring this thread back on topic.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Time to do something]

Bill-I understand your position and why you did what you did. We need to stick to facts. It breaks my heart that I still receive private messages from guys who have gone to Dr. Epstien and had poor results. Guys who have drained their bank accounts and 401K with nothing to show for it. He has offered them "repair" surgeries just like he did with me but no refund. This is so sad and tragic.