A result as close as possible to nature - who can give it to me?

[CopaSurfer]

Hello, my friends,

 

I am new here and deeply moved by all the personal experiences I have already come to read.

 

Let me describe how I found this forum: I have been "planning" to get a HT for nearly eight years now, i.e. I started to gather information shortly after I had some massive hair loss at the age of 22.

 

My hair loss has then reduced significantly and only progressed slowly, but with a visible change over the years. When I used Minox for about six months some years ago, the hair loss stopped and I actually saw the hair strengthening. However, I discontinued use of Minox and only re-started to use it some days ago.

 

My hairline has only slightly receded in the middle, but the temples have receded more or thinned out considerably, especially on the left side. I would consider myself be close to a NW 2.

 

That may not seem so "dramatic" for many people on this board, but it has indeed changed my appearance very dramatically and caused me lots of psychological problems. I had very dense hair before and was even asked to work as a hair model shortly before the hair loss started. I used to wear or style my hair upwards at the front and people always made compliments about my hair and so on. Since the loss started, I have to put my hair forward to hide the receding hairline and the thinning temples, and it has completely changed my appearance, for the worse. It looks somehow strange and people might not even notice I have MPB, but it has really destroyed my whole visual! People's reactions are now very different than they used to be when my face was beautifully framed by my natural hair.

 

Over the last years, I was very busy with my studies and with starting my own business, so it is only now that I finally want to get things done!

 

I would like to state it very clearly: I have set my personal goals for the possible HT and I am not here to discuss those goals. Many people here might not agree with my goals, but I want to ask everyone to respect them and help me with the most important question on my mind: How can I achieve them, with the lowest possible risk of disappointment?

 

So, what is my goal? I have come to the conclusion that a hair transplant is only worth the effort, if I get my hairline - in terms of appearance (I know that the actual density will be lower, but the appearance has to be as close to the original state as possible) - just as it was before the hair loss started, with maximum density and the most natural look. Anything else is NOT of interest to me!

 

I have seen many fabulous results of candidates with a similiar starting point as mine, and nearly all of them were from Dr. Armani. That's why I was actually convinced to get my HT from him. My main source of information over all those years was another forum where only recently someone posted two very poor and terrible results from Armani's clinic, and the whole thread was closed immediately.

 

That was kind of a shock to me and I did some Google research, which led me to this forum, with dozens of very shocking threads about Dr. Armani.

 

I have now serious doubts about my choice of the best possible clinic to achieve my goal and would really appreciate the opinion of more experienced forum members.

 

Who do you think will be the best choice for me to get my hairline restored to where it was, with the maximum density possible - and at the same time minimizing the risk of shock loss or very poor yield, as it has obviously occurred to a number of Armani patients on this board? A special concern for me is the fact that I have a very sensitive scalp (as sensitive as my facial skin) and I wonder if that makes me more vulnerable for possible complications?

 

I am wondering if FUE is really the best choice for me?

 

What bothers me is the fact that I have actually NOT seen a single result from another clinic than Dr. Armani's that is as I have described and as I want it for myself. If you do have other examples of the hairline being restored to its original state with maximum density, please let me know.

 

For this is the only thing I am interested in!

 

On that other forum I mentioned, I have seen a series of very good results coming from Dr. Armani's clinic recently. Is it possible that they have improved their (FUE) methods over the last two years, maybe taking consequences of some very poor results that had been reported?

 

Thank you so much for your thoughts - and please remember: I don't want to discuss my goals, because I have taken the decision that a perfect hairline is THE thing to achieve and that I am willing to take the risks that come along with using a high number of grafts only for the front. I am 31 now, there is no NW 4-6 in my family and Minox totally stopped hair loss and even made some hair grow back. Also, I prefer to have a perfect hair line (which in my case, as a the North/Central European type, wasn't that low anyway) and a thinner part behind, should my hair loss continue more dramatically in the future.

 

What I am not willing to take, however, is a high risk of getting a terrible result such as those that I have seen from several Armani FUE patients on this board.

 

So, what do you think: WHO is the one who will give me what I want?

 

All the best,

Sascha

 

PS: Sorry for my English, I'm from Europe and NOT a native speaker.

Edited August 10, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[FinHairLoss]

I'm in the same exact boat; massive hair loss at 22, want full hairline back (people say you look ridiculous with a full "teeage" hairline, tell whoever says that to ask their wife what they think about old george clooneys hairline) and I want to know what will give the most natural look etc.

 

 

 

so your best bet is to not get a hair transplant. Wait for histogen, Histogen - About Histogen - Latest news, upcoming events at Histogen , to come through with a treatment. it'll be available in asia around 2013 hopefully and then 2015 in the US if all goes well.

 

 

or you could wait and see what aderans research does, http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_ournews. , they're aiming for about the same time period maybe a little sooner? they're in the second phase of three i believe.

 

 

 

I've been all over the internet and if you start losing your hair in your early twenties you'll probably be pretty bald later, NW6 or 7 which makes a hair transplant hardly worth it. so just wait for them to clone hair or regrow it with stem sells. The next three years will Fin suck, but we'll have hair like greek gods

Edited August 10, 2010 by FinHairLoss

[CopaSurfer]

Hi there,

 

thanks for your prompt feedback!

 

My hair loss was actually caused by an acne treatment with Accutane I did at the time. Never had hair loss before, it started exactly during the period I took those pills, and I had severe scalp irritations, seborrhoic eczema after finishing the treatment.

 

I have been told by others who made the same treatment that it can initiate a MPB that you would otherwise not have experienced so early in your life! My family history supports this assumption, as there is no man neither on my father's nor on my mother's side who was / is a NW4 to NW 6.

 

Also, as I described above, my hair status has been quite stable since then, with the hairline receding a bit more year by year, but currently I think that I have not even reached a full NW 2.

 

"Waiting" is not an option for me, because the rest of my "youth" is here and now, and I want to enjoy it as long as I can. As far as I know, there have been many announcements of the big "breaktrough" in other treatments of MPB, but I see HT as the only realistic option for many years to come. Others may have a different view and I respect that (it's very possible that I am plain wrong with my perception), but I have decided for me that HT is the way to go. At least, if there is a surgeon who can give me what I want.

 

I would be really happy about suggestions and some more specific feedback about the concerns that I have raised above.

 

In any case, thanks a lot for taking the time, FinHairLoss!

 

Best wishes,

Sascha

Edited August 10, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[EpilepticSceptic]

Go to Armani then, delay no further !!

 

If you don't have MPB then ask him to do a strip and he'll give you exactly what you want and you can live happily ever after and take a trip to Disney World.

 

However, if you DO have MPB, then he'll give you what you want and in 10 years time you'll look like a circus freak with a densely packed $15K mustache on the front of your head, and a hideously balding noggin behind it with 0 donor hair left to fix it.

 

The choice is yours; are we ready to gamble ?

[CopaSurfer]

Hi EpilepticSceptic,

 

thank you for taking the time.

 

Did I get it right that you are warning me against the possible consequences of a too "aggressive" approach for the restoration of my hairline / temples?

 

I have really thought very intensively about it over the years and am willing to take the risk, because I have - as far as I can see - a very dense donor area and also very thick hair.

 

So, I believe that with respect to my family history and the progress of my MPB (yes, it is MPB!) over the last eight years, I have a very good chance to maintain my existing hair using Minox as long as possible, still having enough grafts to cover other balding areas later on, if needed.

 

Probably, we will also see further technological progress over the next ten years.

 

That's why I have taken the decision to enjoy my life over the next ten years, while I am in my thirties. I totally understand that others might come to a very different conclusion for themselves.

 

The most important question for me is: Who is the one who can give me what I want? I am quite worried after seeing some of the less than favorable results of the Armani clinic.

 

You also pointed out, however, that those poor results were mainly FUE results and that Dr. Armani had lots of really outstanding and dense hairline and temple results doing strip procedures.

 

Do you think it would be possible to achieve the same results with FUE? And WHO would be able to do so?

 

Thank you once again for posting your thoughts - it's a great help for me!

 

All the best,

Sascha

Edited August 10, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[mattj]

To me, your wishes don't sound unrealistic. You understand that getting back your original density is not possible, but you want to re-frame your face by filling in the temples.

 

Do you have any photos?

[Sparky]

At 31 your not likely to progress to a NW6-7 at any point in your life, especially as you dont have a family history of it. You wont really get any people on here promoting Armani, as bad results have been posted on this site, but I have seen a lot of dense hairlines from him, i've seen more good results than bad results lets put it that way.

 

Another Dr that could do this for you would be Dr Rahal but he only does strip, I also think that Dr Umar would be able to do this no problem and he only does FUE.

[Sparky]

Add Dr Keser in Turkey to that list

[Dr. Alan Feller]

I also think your goals are quite realistic. But perhaps I can help to boil down the issues for you to help make an informed decision.

 

The very first thing you need to make sure of, no matter who you choose for the surgery, is that they use ONLY single hair FUs in the hairline. That is a non negotiable point. As long as stay with singles, it's hard to go wrong. If it's not thick enough for you, you can always add more grafts as needed in the future.

 

Second, make sure the hairline is appropriate. That is NOT too low. Be conservative, you can always drop it later.

 

Third, if you want FUE that's fine, but remember that you may have lower growth yields because of the additional trauma of it being FUE. Also you MUST make sure that all these hairline grafts are single hair follicular units. Not all clinics check their FUEs under the microscope to make sure they are true singles. The very last thing you want are multi hair grafts on your hairline. (Sure, you'll get a few here and there, but I'm talking about signficant quantities).

 

Now that you have the breakdown of what you want, simply ask the doctors your interested in to sign off on these concerns. If they do to your satisfaction, then you know where to go.

[FrankyKnuckles]

I have seen many fabulous results of candidates with a similiar starting point as mine, and nearly all of them were from Dr. Armani. That's why I was actually convinced to get my HT from him. My main source of information over all those years was another forum where only recently someone posted two very poor and terrible results from Armani's clinic, and the whole thread was closed immediately.

 

That was kind of a shock to me and I did some Google research, which led me to this forum, with dozens of very shocking threads about Dr. Armani.

 

 

 

being as i was in that thread as well i dont think i will go back to that site anymore. can you post links to the bad results you have found? i only know of one asian guy that had a bad result and would like to see all these unsatisfied patients i keep hearing about.

[Sparky]

Dont think this thread is about bad Armani results, there are quite a few of threads regarding this if you use the search fucntion.

[CopaSurfer]

To me, your wishes don't sound unrealistic. You understand that getting back your original density is not possible, but you want to re-frame your face by filling in the temples.

 

Do you have any photos?

 

Hi Matt,

 

thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

I would like to get as close to my original density as possible.

 

Or more accurately: I'd like to have my original appearance again and style my hair in any way I wish, especially upwards (actually, my hair was so dense and thick that it stood without any gel or wax etc.), but without that "see through" appearance that I have seen so many times on so many photos.

 

I'm going to post some photos of my current hair status soon and would be very grateful to get some more feedback.

 

Thank you once again!

 

Best wishes,

CopaSurfer

Edited August 12, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[CopaSurfer]

being as i was in that thread as well i dont think i will go back to that site anymore. can you post links to the bad results you have found? i only know of one asian guy that had a bad result and would like to see all these unsatisfied patients i keep hearing about.

 

Hi Franky,

 

I did a search when I arrived here at the forums and found lots of threads where people commented on less than favorable results from the Armani clinic.

 

It was kind of a shock for me, because I was so impressed by some of the results from them, especially in terms of density and how Dr. Armani framed those patients' faces absolutely naturally.

 

I must say that I have yet to see results that are alike from other clinics, and that's my whole dilemma.

 

On the one hand I still believe that Dr. Armani could give me exactly what I want, on the other hand I am now afraid that I might be one of those cases where people experienced lots of shock loss and one patient even reported having small lumps all across his hairline (I saw it on the photos he posted in one of those threads you can find in the archive).

 

As I have a very sensitive scalp (in terms of oiliness and tendency towards seborrhea) I wonder whether I might have a higher risk of complications?

 

Many people have stated that Dr. Armani had much better results with his strip procedures (exactly the kind of result I'd like to have), but I've seen some very good FUE results recently, too. So might it be that his poorer FUE result were only a temporary issue - they were mostly about two to three years ago - when he had just changed from strip to FUE? And maybe now he is getting closer to his former standards again?

 

Well, those are many questions and I admit being a bit confused and irritated right now. So thanks a lot for weighing in!

Edited August 11, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[CopaSurfer]

Hi Sparky,

 

thanks for your comments and recommendations. I really have to get more information about other doctors in the field because I have been focusing on only one doctor all the time.

 

All the best to you and looking forward to reading more from you!

 

Hello Dr. Feller,

 

thanks a lot for taking the time and giving me such valuable advice.

 

You helped me get aware of a very important aspect - that only single hair follicular units should be used for the hairline.

 

Actually, I'm not so sure anymore whether FUE or strip is more suitable for me, because the kind of result I'd like to have seems to be more achievable with strip. On the other hand, if I found a surgeon who could give me a hairline with maximum density by FUE, I would certainly prefer it.

 

So, with regard to my hairline, my goals are obviously not so "conservative", although my hairline has never been so low, since I am the fair-haired, Central/Northern European type. But I want to get it back to where it was (in the middle it has not even receded 1cm, but the temples have receded considerably more and thinned out behind).

 

From my past experience I know that I can strengthen the existing hair considerably by using Minox, so that the HT would probably consist of just putting the "new old" hairline with maximum density in front of the existing hair, without much need to fill in areas. That's only my personal impression, though, and you as an expert might get to a different conclusion.

 

I'll try to make some good photos within the next two weeks and am looking forward to your feedback.

 

Thank you so much for your detailed comment.

 

All the best,

Sascha

Edited August 11, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[Sparky]

Your goals are more achievable on here than most who want their young hairlines back, as you are in your thirties now, so have less chance of going to a NW6-7 like most of the young lads on here who are NW3 at 20.

[mattj]

While strip is still the standard, and is likely to remain so, if your hairloss is as minor as you say it is then it might be below the level where you'd want to undergo a strip surgery. It will be easier to tell once you provide some photos.

If you look around you'll see that the doctor you mentioned is not the only one creating the kind of results you're looking for.

[CopaSurfer]

If you look around you'll see that the doctor you mentioned is not the only one creating the kind of results you're looking for.

 

I assume that I'll need at least 2000 or 2500 grafts to get the density and original hairline I want.

 

Could you indicate some examples of patients that have had such results? With maximum density, i.e. such density that you don't see the scalp shining through in the front / temple area?

 

Frankly, I haven't seen such results from other surgeons, and that's my whole dilemma right now. Or should it be that such results are not really achievable, in terms of density?

 

Probably, I'd need dense-packing of up to 80 grafts per sqcm to get the result I want, but, then again, I wonder if that will "materialize" with FUE, where the yield often seems to be substantially lower?

 

Is there any guarantee that I'll get a certain number of grafts per sqcm?

[mattj]

Here's a result that I think represents the maximum density that hairlines are being planted at.

 

Before: http://i37.tinypic.com/5f23xz.jpg

 

After: http://i34.tinypic.com/24pxugk.jpg

 

There are other Dr Rahal results around. He's not as forward as some doctors in seeking permission to use patient photos.

 

The thing is, you see, is that some of the examples you've seen in the past might not be as dense as you think they are. I've seen photos of transplants (and I'm talking about from all doctors) that in one photo might look incredibly dense and then in another shot might look quite thin. Also, some of the poor results that have emerged could be at least partially a result of packing grafts too close together. It is thought that this can affect yield.

 

If you talk to a doctor or doctors, you can ask them what they can do for you regarding density. My own personal view is that high density is great, and with minor hairloss it can be something to aim for, but fundamentally a transplant is about filling empty space and creating a hairline which is more aesthetically pleasing than one ravaged by male pattern baldness.

[CopaSurfer]

Hi Matt,

 

I can tell you that my appearance has been destroyed totally by receding temples and thinning behind the hairline, although everything is limited to the frontal part.

 

That's why I am definitely aiming for restoring my hairline and temples with the maximum density possible. It's the only thing I'm actually looking for.

 

And I need a doctor who understands that for someone feeling bad about his hair and losing lots of attractiveness, and therefore self-confidence, he doesn't have to be a NW 4/5/6!

 

Someone who will give me exactly what I want.

 

The result you posted looks good, though I would like to see the hair "standing" without the hand in front of it.

 

I have seen some very amazing results from the Armani clinic, with top quality photos, very light conditions, sometimes directly in the sunlight, who to me are simpy the best results I have seen so far in terms of hairline density and design.

 

I am now trying to figure out whether those results are the rule or the exception.

 

You wrote about the possibility of grafts being packed too close, which could cause lower yield. Do you think that this is a general risk or can it be minimized by an experienced surgeon?

[Surfarosa]

CopaSurfer - I have had nearly 3000 single hair graphs in my hairline over 3 surgeries (1 baby one of 500-600 when I was 25). I starting receding in late teens I think. 2006 & 2008 I had the hairline restored. I'm 36 in a few months.

 

If it sounds like my case is close to yours (I have not read all your stuff yet) let me know if I can help.

[CopaSurfer]

Hi guys,

 

I have finally taken some photos and hope that they are good enough for you to evaluate my situation.

 

On the first photo, you can see how I normally wear my hair. It is an effective way to hide the problem, but it has really destroyed the appearance I had before.

 

Thanks to all of you who make this forum such a unique place, I have already got some extremely valuable information over the last two weeks and am now going to consult the top favorite surgeons on my list.

 

My goal is absolutely clear: I want to restore my hairline as it was, with maximum density and all styling options (especially upwards, which requires a perfect hairline design).

 

And I want to have it done as soon as possible. After all, I have been waiting and preparing for more than eight years now.

 

In the middle, my hairline has only receded about 0.75 cm. Its original position there was in the middle between the round scar (the result of an injury I had at the age of 11) and where it is now.

 

The area 1-2 cm behind the hairline has thinned out, too - not so much in the middle and on the right, but very much on the left. That's why I believe that we can virtually put all the grafts in front of the still existing hairline from the middle to the right temple, but will have to go further behind on the left.

 

As I am so glad that I've found this forum and feel that I'll make much better decisions thanks to the contributions from all the members of this wonderful community, I am going to post regular updates of my hair loss and, very soon, hair re-growing success story.

 

Any comments regarding my case and my goals and how to achieve them are always highly appreciated!

 

Thanks a lot and have a wonderful Sunday!

 

PS: Special thanks to @Sparky! I just noticed that it was your comment in this thread that helped me get aware of an extremely skilled surgeon that I had never really paid attention to before! Let's see how the consultations work out!

Edited August 22, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[Surfarosa]

How old are you now ? Do you have any thinning in the crown ?

[CopaSurfer]

Hi @surfarosa, as mentioned earlier, I'm 31 now. I have, at the most, very minimal thinning in the crown that is not noticeable. As I'm also a very good responder to Minox (though I haven't used it for some time, but will start again after getting my HT) and my hair loss has advanced only very slowly over the last years as well as with respect to my family history, I'm very optimistic I can maintain the hair I still have for a long time. Should the necessity of another HT arise, there will be plenty of hair left in my donor area which is very dense. I guess that 2000 grafts should be about right to achieve my current goals - what do you think?

Edited August 22, 2010 by CopaSurfer

[Surfarosa]

I doubt 2000 would get you the result - but you have more corse hair than I do so maybe. I have had 3000 in my hairline. As Doc Feller said, singles is the only option for someone with your goals. I'd also drop the FUE option. Strip will give you the best quality & yield. Unless you want to clipper cut your hair then what's the point (I actually wanted to clipper cut my hair so am really bummed this option is off the table).

 

I started properly at 31 (small procedure at 28 - 500 FUs) & had a second at 33. I'm 36 in a couple of months. Looks like I'm very close to you in terms of age and goals. If I can help I will. The whole thing was and remains an incredibly difficult journey emotionally most of all because I had no person to relate to. Even on the forums it's v. hard to find input that actually pertains to your case.

 

If you need a hair buddy I've been researching this stuff for 14 years. 1st advice is get back on the Minox asap. I made that mistake. Just use the foam at night. The twice a day thing is a pain and not necessary IMHO.

[Surfarosa]

BTW - I tried to get the result (a more modest result than you seek I think) with 1500 & was back for another 1800 asap. Wish I had done that in one shot. A waste of recovery time and emotional energy. The time after surgery is truly awful - get it right first time Copasurfer.

 

BTW I'm having consults again now as I'm concerned about what is happening on the rest of my head. Had PRP 3 months ago. I've just become so paranoid that 3000 in just the hairline was a mistake. I think I'm totally wrong (let's hope so) but am seeking reassurance to calm my fears. People think my hair looks great but the fact I know I had surgery & I am on meds makes me paranoid. I also have a slight imbalance that could be fixed with a few hundred graphs but I'm too over the whole process right now.