FUE vs FUT

[Danielkiwi]

Hello everyone

 

I have a FUE vs FUT question. If one person were to only do only FUE, would that person be able to get a similiar number of grafts as compared to if he were only to do FUT procedures..I am not talking about one procedure but multiple procedures over the course of a lifetime..

 

Thanks

[Sparky]

I think you can get the same amount from both procedures, but fue would take longer. I prefer fue as you dont get a strip scar, and if it had been widely available in 1998, I wouldnt have a strip scar now.

 

I'm sure the anti-fue crowd will be on here soon.

[Danielkiwi]

thanks for the reply sparky and i know there are a lot of anti FUE people over here as well..so hope to hear from them as well..

 

I am fine with using multiple procedures as i think of this as a long term solution rather than a short term one..there are drawbacks with FUE and i am doing research to address them..the most important thing is to find somebody who has done 5000 + FUE in multiple procedures and look at the donor area...everybody says that the scarring is minimum but i think you truly have to see someone in person...i beleive you have had a procedure with Dr. Bisanga and i know he is not recommended on this forum...i have consulted docs in this forum and they dont seem to be too confident about the FUE tecnhique..hence, i am extending my research beyond this forum...how was your experiuence with him and would be able to share some light on the scarring situation on either yourself or any of his patients you might have met

[TC17]

Danielwiki,

 

I'm certainly not anti FUE, but for most people you will get more grafts from the strip method alone than from FUE alone. I say most because I'm sure there are people with great density but poor elasticity, and for those FUE would probably offer more grafts. Also, if your donor area is really big because of something like minimal balding, then you have far greater surface to harvest FUE grafts from, and you might be able to get more from FUE alone than from strip alone.

 

When I measured my dad's donor area I figured that if his density was an average of 80 throughout and a doctor only took 30% of his grafts, then he could have around 6400 from FUE alone. The average for strip is between 4,000-8,000, so if my dad got equal growth and was able to harvest 30%, then he'd be right there. As it stands right now though, for the vast majority of patients strip alone will get you more grafts than FUE alone.

 

Personally, I can't go the strip route because I have no idea how bald I will become and I think having a 30cm strip scar on the back of my head would severely limit my future options.

[TC17]

One other thing Daniel. I saw a person who had FUE done a few years back with a doctor in Cincinnati. I have no idea how many grafts he had, but judging from his level of baldness prior to surgery, I'd say he got about 3,000 grafts and there was NO evidence of scarring. He had his shaved with a razor and you couldn't see a thing. Now, this was years ago and I didn't study it nearly as closely as I would today, but I do remember looking to find scarring and seeing none.

[wb280]

This debate has been going on for a long time but as both sides have said, there are pros and cons to it

 

I gather that ultimately, its YOU, the patient who dictates whether FUE is suitable for u, with your NW being the priority, and of cos finances.

 

I was hoping to undergo FUE but a couple docs felt my hair loss could be worse down the road and i need to conserve. Hence FUE was prob not a gd choice for me if i indeed do lose more down the road. Yield is the criteria here ( according to them ). Just simply search in this forum and u will get plenty of info of FUE vs FUT

[Danielkiwi]

Thanks for the reply TC 17 and wb280

 

 

TC 17..I am in the same boat as you...I dont have any idea how bald i will be and hence am not very comfortable with an ear to ear scar...Plus, i have noticed some surgeons take a higher scar these days and what would happen if you loose further down in the crown..it pretty much means to stay on propecia for life and also then pray that is works..

 

BTW - how did you come up with that number of 6,400....6,400 is 30% of 21,333..did you mean to say that your father has 21,333 grafts in the donor area and if yes, how did you get that number...that is awesome about the scarring....What clinic did he go to? If i decide to shortlist a doctor, i will definitely see a patient before taking the plunge...I also dont want to limit my options as far as the doctor is concerned...If a doctor is confident and shows good results, i will go to any corner of the world to get this done..

 

Wb 280 - I have been following the debate closely on this forum but i think a lot of it is skewed towards FUT because docs in this forum are not comfortable doing FUE procedures even after charging the big amount of money..I remember Dr. Feller who charges $10 per graft say something like "If you want to spend $30,000 for 3000 grafts and not get a good yield - be my guest"..now, he might be right as he is a very reputable doctor...but why would anybody get a procedure done when the surgeon in not confident..and i beleive he is the best for FUE on this forum...money should not be a consideration coz this is your head and you deserve the best for this....i think the key is to find a doctor who is confident and also has results to show for it..i really hope that someone leads the way in FUE and i am confident it will happen sooner than later..

[RCWest]

One other thing Daniel. I saw a person who had FUE done a few years back with a doctor in Cincinnati. I have no idea how many grafts he had, but judging from his level of baldness prior to surgery, I'd say he got about 3,000 grafts and there was NO evidence of scarring. He had his shaved with a razor and you couldn't see a thing. Now, this was years ago and I didn't study it nearly as closely as I would today, but I do remember looking to find scarring and seeing none.

 

 

Dr. Wolf is in Cincinatti. He is real good.

[wb280]

I saw that thread too! Actually I did ask spex to conduct an online

consultation with doc feller n he felt I m

not suitable for fue due to potential losses in future n I might exhaust

too much donor too early

 

dude,nobody likes a ear to ear scar but some hair loss folks like myself

we ve got no choice as we r not suitable fue candidates

 

it's recommended u consult online with a couple docs recommended here to gauge

if u r indeed suitable for fue

 

gd luck!

[Sparky]

I know someone who has had 8000 fue, 1k of these are from the beard and chest and the rest from his head. He shaves his head every 2 days and you cant see any fue marks at all. He did however have an average density of 110 pr sq cm. He went from a very diffuse NW6 to a fairly thick NW1.

 

This is someone that I know, and prefers not to be indentified, but i'm sure you will be happy to take my word for it that i'm not lieing.

 

It has taken him 4 years so far, and he still wants a few hundred more in his crown.

 

This is the highest fue case I have ever come across that is predominatly scalp hair. Hes a very lucky guy!

[Sparky]

It would be nice if we could make this the FUE vs FUT thread that doesnt desend in chaos, I make not bones about the fact that I prefer fue, but i'm not gonna start making sarky jokes about strip. If we can keep this thread clean, i'll happily discuss this for ages.

[TC17]

Dr. Wolf's license is currently inactive in the state of Ohio. That is why I didn't mention his name earlier.

https://license.ohio.gov/Lookup/SearchDetail.asp?ContactIdnt=2969045&DivisionIdnt=78&Type=L

 

I understand where doctors are coming from when they advocate for strip surgery. I don't believe it's because that type of surgery is easier on them, I truly think they believe it is in the best interest of the patient. However, that doesn't mean that the doctors are right. I've personally thought long and hard about strip v. FUE, and I've weighed the pros and cons of each. For me, I believe the benefits of FUE outweigh the benefits of strip.

 

I understand the limitations of FUE as it exists currently, but I'm consoled by the fact that FUE has come a long way in the past few years and it still has much more room for improvement. On the other hand, I believe that strip has reached its apex, and save for minor tweaking, it is what it will always be. Do I really want to have a strip scar at 27 for the REST of my life if it's not absolutely necessary? I don't need 4,000 grafts right now, I only need about 2,000. If in the future I require additional grafts, I can always then turn to strip and I will not have lost anything. Now this all assumes that my growth rate is comparable to that of strip, but in the right hands, it will be. I'm confident that SMG would not ruin their well deserved reputation if they weren't comfortable in the results of FUE.

 

Whenever a doctor, clinic, or patient that rails against FUE posts on here, the focus moves away from which plan of attack is better, and shifts to which surgery is more consistent, easier, cheaper, etc.. FUE loses that latter argument, but won't always lose the former. I stand firmly convinced that FUE is a BETTER approach for almost EVERY young hair loss suffer for the same reason that many clinics believe strip to be better for the young patient, because nobody knows just how much hair that guy is going to lose.

[Danielkiwi]

wb 280

 

I have been told that by a couple of doctors too that i am not a suitable candidate..but please remember this is a cosmetic surgery and it is important what you want also..

 

with FUE, one has an option to buzz to no.2 and you dont have to have a real dense mop of hair to pull it off...on the other hand i have seen a lot of FUT cases with thin hairlines and more receeding as time goes by...in this case a no.2 buzz would def be a better option and you can get away without wasting all those grafts at the temple areas...

 

Have you already gotten your surgery with Dr. Feller? I am interested in some of Dr. Bisanga work and i beleive he does consultations in Washington DC...He seems to be confident and well worth a consult..prices are competitive too!!!

 

 

Also, how is FUT going to help you if you have potentail losses any better than FUE...you will have to go thru multiple procedures for FUT as well

[Danielkiwi]

Sparky

 

Yes. lets keep this thread as clean as possible...I understand that you dont want to disclose your friends identity..but i trust you and am sure you are not bluffing...can you tell me who the doctor was?? also, can you share your exp with Bisanga..

 

guys, i think you can really counter the cons of FUE if you are prepared to buzz your head at no.1 or no.2...that way you are not wasting a lot of hair on the hairline and the crown does not have to thick either..just think about it rationally...lot of doctors have told me that they will give me a dense hairline but not go into the crown area because of future uncertainty of hairloss...but damn..i dont want a dense hairline and live with half a head of hair.. i dont care about densepacking in the hairline..i want an uniform smattering of hair that i can buzz to no.2 or even no.1

[Danielkiwi]

thanks for your reply spex

 

why would the total number of grafts via FUE would be different that total no. of grafts via FUT (if somebody were to do the procedures exclusive of each other)...As i understand, in fut you remove the strip and harvest the grafts from there..in FUE, you are removing the grafts straight from the head...hence, i am assuming that the surface area remains the same..i have heard people say this before but i am not sure why unless you need to keep a certain amount of distance between grafts under a FUE procedure..

 

Also you mention "There will be a point that an individual will run out of FUE supply (safely)"...Wouldnt that same person run out of FUT as well...what is the difference...and what happens when you do a FUT and you reach Norwood 7...how would one takle the scar at that point...a lot of doctors have told me that they do not recommend a HT if i dont want to be on propecia all my life..and i surely dont want to do that..hence i think i am not a FUT candidate at all....atleast doing a FUE, i have the option of throwing in the towel and buzzing the hair for the remainder of my life..i dont want to shave to the skin but i would def love the option of buzzing it neat and short!!!can you share some expereince regarding scarring from FUE??

[Sparky]

You dont run out of fue supply anymore than you do with fut, its just the effect that they both have on the donor area. With super thin fut scars, you arent thinning out the donor area like you would be with 1000's of fue being extracted, because you are removing a piece of scalp and then drawing the edges toghether instead of taking grafts from a bigger area and not stitching anything back together.

 

I personally would prefer the donor area being depleted via the fue method than having my strip scar, as your never going to get the coverage on top as thick as the coverage is round the sides anyway, so you could end up with the coverage being similar all over.

[Danielkiwi]

thanks spex...there certainly is a lot to research and ponder over..

[EpilepticSceptic]

Ahhh, the old never ending FUE vs. FUT debate !

 

IMO FUE is NOT as new as many here would like to believe. Yes, it is newer than FUT; but it has been around for a good number of years now.

 

The first forum I joined was HLH, and that was back in 2004. At that time the prevailing opinion of most forum members was that in 5 years FUT would be an outdated procedure, and that FUE would have abundant proof of successful outcomes and that the price would be driven significantly down.

 

It never happened -- as a matter of fact, the opposite happened! I can name 3 clinics/docs who were IMMENSELY popular at that time on HLH, but who all took MAJOR nosedives as a direct consequence of their miserable failures at attempting to do FUE on a large scale: Cole, DHI, and Armani. These were clinics who switched their entire practices to FUE, not just as an adjunct to strip surgery.

 

IMO the evidence after 5 years suggests overwhelmingly that FUE is a big crap shoot for the patient. Many here will argue that these clinics/docs were simply too unskilled and beligerent, but they DO (at least Armani and Cole) have some very impressive FUE results on a MINORITY of their patients. Are we to believe that they did good quality work on some, then just decided to hack up the others ? Or is it that the technique will just not work for everyone ?

 

I waited out 5 years not once bothering to look at any of the forums, after 1 solid year of research. Why ? Well, I wanted to see if FUE truly did advance and become more consistent, and maybe even less expensive. To say that what I found was extremely discouraging would truly be an understatement.

 

One needs to see patients in person as a MAJOR part of one's HT research! If you haven't done this then IMO you are about 25% done with your research. What I found looking at patients in person was that (when a virgin scalp and done by a top doc) the strip scars were suprisingly insignificant -- so much so that it made me laugh at the level of fear i had associated with it, which I later realized had mostly to do with OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS on forums. I've seen guys who had a #2/3 buzz and you still had to go searching for the strip scar to find it; in normal everyday circumstances it was such a non-issue that it was laughable to me.

 

Then again, these were tricho closures on virgin heads done by whom I consider to be the very best docs out there, and the patients had great laxity. If you don't have good laxity then FUE might be the ticket for you.

Edited July 13, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[Sparky]

that mean you had 194 into the scar in all?

[Sparky]

That link doesnt go to your scar m8

[Sparky]

soz my bad

[TC17]

Your scar looks great, spex.

[Danielkiwi]

Your scar looks great dude..no visible sign of it...BTW, i think you have a pretty good HT as well....just a quick question....in you exp, do you know what is the success rate of FUE in the scar..i have heard in the past that the scar tissue does not always yield optimum growth

[Danielkiwi]

Cheers - i'm happy with the end result - took me a while to get there.

 

Success of FUE into scar depends on how vascular the scar is (how much blood supply)

 

Regards

Spex

 

and how can that be determined

[Sparky]

stick it with a knife and see how much blood comes out I guess.