Dr. Lawrence Shapiro review and questions for other HT Dr.s

[Scrounge]

The Questions:

To get the possible doctors viewing this thread out of here quick, I'll start with the questions.

 

Is it possible for a patient to hear every/most of the follicle incisions being done during a Dr. L. Shaprio type of procedure?

 

Is there any other way to prove how many transplants were done?

 

What can I do from this point forward?

 

I'm very curious due to my most recent experience with Dr. L. Shaprio. I'll explain below...

 

A little about me:

Let me start by saying that I am 39 years old and have had 3 HT sessions with Dr. L. Shaprio over the last 3 years. Unlike some, I've been relatively happy with my improvements. My head hasn't been mangled nor do I have a hideous donor scar as a result of the three procedures. However, his ability to provide an undetectable hairline needs work. It is very possible that my 4th and hopefully final procedure will be with a Doctor that can provide a better hairline.

 

My gradual hair loss started in my late 20's. By my mid 30's I started using Rogain based products and achieved positive results. However, those results weren't good enough and I decided to do HTs. I did some research of a few local doctors on the Internet and found very little (probably because I was searching specific doctors). I did several consultations as well. All of the doctors were using the same procedure and offering the same results. With that in mind, I chose Dr. L. Shaprio because his prices were better ($3 per Vs $8 per).

 

The Doctor visits:

During all 3 pre-surgery consultations I was able to speak to the Dr. as long as I needed. He spent time answering my questions and addressing my concerns. I found him to be quite friendly and knowledgeable. His staff was very friendly as well. They explain everything they want you to do to prepare for the procedure (messaging the scalp, no aspirin or alcohol, etc.) I also didn't find the initial sales pitch to be high pressure at all. But they do press quite hard for a deposit. When you return for the procedure is when they turn up the sales pressure in an attempt to get you to do more HTs.

 

The Procedures

When you get to there office, the staff signs you in and moves you into a consultation room. This is where the hard sale for more HTs happens. Once that's done the Dr. comes in and speaks with you. In my case, he again spent as much time as I needed answering questions and discussing the procedure each time I was there. After the Dr. visit I am dressed for the surgery, bombarded with paper work to sign and given the pre-op drugs. Next I am taken into one of the 3 procedure rooms(he is usually working on 2 other people at the same time). My lunch order is taken, my movie choice is put on the TV and the numbing shots are applied to my head by one of the Dr.'s nurses. Once I am numb the Dr. removes my donor strip, sews my up and makes the multiple HT incisions. After that it's not likely I'm going to see the Dr. again during the procedure. Unless he makes a request of me to allow him to bring in some (potential client) to see the procedure. Otherwise his assistants finish up by placing all of the implants.

 

1st HT

I started out as a 3 or 3A. I was told that 1,000 was the least amount of HTs I should do. I chose to do 1200 at $2.50 per graft and was up sold to 1350 on the day of the procedure.

 

2nd HT

Unhappy with the thickness of my hair (thinking I needed more HTs) and wanting to reduce the linear look of Dr. L Shapiro's hairline, I chose to do 1800 more at $2.50 per graft. The Dr. assured me that he could fix the look of the hair line and I would be happy.

 

3rd HT

Still unhappy with the fullness and disappointed with the seemingly thicker/more visible linear hairline, I was back for more. During my consultation I asked the Dr. exactly what the max amount of HTs he thought I could do on my next procedure. I also told him that he must fix the hairline with the next HT. He told me that the reason my hairline was so defined/noticeable was because my hair was so dark and my scalp was so light.(I'm calling BS on this) But he swore that he could blend it in and make it look more natural. He was also very reluctant to give me the quantity of max HTs. However, he did end up telling me that 2000 (@ $2.00 per graft) was the max he could do. (This is what brings me to my original questions.) When I returned for the procedure, I was once again taken into the consultation room where the consultant started in about more HTs. I told her that the Dr. already said I was at a max of 2000 for this procedure. She "the consultant" then tells me, "no you could do more". I'm thinking WTF. I told her to go argue with the doctor. She then leaves the room and returns with the Dr. Dr. L. Shapiro proceeds to tell me that because I messaged so well he could do up to 500 more. This didn't sound right to me, but this is a "doctor" telling me and I want as much hair as possible, so I agreed to 200 more for a further reduced price of $1.50 per graft.

 

Suspicious about the up sale because what the Dr. told me during my previous consultation, I decided to count the incisions during the procedure. I remembered how I could hear a crunching sound each time the doctor made an incision. I figure count those sounds and I'll know (within reason) whether or not I got the extra 200 grafts. Well the Dr. began and I started counting. I only got to around 870 and he was done. Needless to say I was confused and unsure if my count was accurate, so I didn't say anything.

 

The here and now

It's been less than 2 weeks since the HT and I've been beating myself up over this, wondering which way to turn. I started doing more research into this doctor and not liking what I've found. I can understand that some people aren't happy with their results. But my quandary involves being cheated out of money. This isn't a question of talent anymore. It's a question of whether or not this guy is selling you 2200 transplants for $4300.00 and only doing 870. Which coincidentally mean he's getting the average going rate of almost $5.00 per transplant.

 

Please refer to the questions at the beginning and offer any assistance you can.

 

Thank you for taking your time to read all of that.

[the B spot]

It is often the practice of unscrupulous clinics to charge for a particular amount of grafts and not do them.

 

This is often one of the reasons they can keep the prices so low.

 

Another red flag is the "up sell" to more grafts once your in the chair.....it is the practice of most ethical clinics to agree on a set graft total and gift these to the patient if they go over.

 

I can tell you that maintaining a proper clinic, equipment, staff and administration is expensive, period.

 

I suggest you see a Coalition doctor in your area, have them examine your scalp and attempt to estimate the amount of incisions and area covered. You could then take this information back to your clinic if there is any issue.

 

Here's the deal with your HT....be calm, wait it out. See how it turns out. Once it grows in, then we can see what your hairline looks like and go from there.

 

I hope this helps!!!

 

Take Care,

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

Is it possible for a patient to hear every/most of the follicle incisions being done during a Dr. L. Shaprio type of procedure?

 

Scrounge,

 

The answer is yes. As long as you're attentive, you can usually hear (but not feel) a slight crunching sound after each incision is made.

 

In short, if you are concerned about whether you received all the grafts you paid for, you should confront your physician about it. You may also want to consult a reputable Coalition physician for a second opinion.

 

Feel free also to post photos of your scalp before your last hair transplant and then immediately after surgery. It should be pretty easy to tell based on the photos whether you had 870 or 2200 grafts since there's a big difference.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Scrounge]

The only person that has those photos would be the Dr. I didn't take any. I don't even recall the Dr. taking any "after" photos.

 

The idea that someone calling themselves a Doctor would cheat you out of money is rather upsetting. I can see being charged more for a procedure or having a bad result. But simply not doing what you charged for is sickening.

 

I think I was pretty alert during the procedure and my count of 870 is really close (+ or - 10). I don't know why I didn't say anything then. That's just not like me. However I'm seriously interested in pursuing my allegations regarding this matter. If anyone could suggest a doctor who would assist me I'd be very grateful.

 

Thanks again

[Bill - Seemiller]

Scrounge,

 

You may also want to read "Getting the Hair Transplant You Paid For" which addresses unethical graft counting and ways to avoid the scam. Note that I'm not saying Dr. Larry Shapiro cheated you, but I do think you owe it to yourself to ease your concerns.

 

I'm not sure where you're located, but here is a list of the surgeons we've prescreened and have been approved for recommendation in our community. You may want to set up an in-person consult ASAP before your scalp heals too much and it becomes harder to spot the newly transplanted sites/hair. Admittedly, depending on how you've healed, it may already be too late.

 

If I were you, I'd have someone take as many high resolution and clear photos of the transplanted area today. Then set up a consultation with one of our doctors and garner their medical input.

 

I've found that physicians typically don't like to comment specifically about other physicians or their work. Thus, I'd also suggest leaving your physician's name anonymous so as to not promote any bias and acquire the most objective feedback.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Scrounge]

I live in the south Florida area. I was really hoping that a doctor may read this and offer some assistance. Do many doctors in my area read this board? Given the area that I live, could you suggest a doctor that would help?

 

Thanks again

[Bill - Seemiller]

Scrounge,

 

A physician would at the very least need to see high some high resolution photos if not see you in person to provide a graft count estimate. And what can be determined at this point will depend on how well you've healed, how many grafts have already shed, and whether or not there's any natural hair in between the grafts.

 

To see a list of physicians we recommend in Florida, click here.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Scrounge]

Well I set up a couple of appointments for Monday. That's as soon as they could get me in.

 

I want some other doctors to see me in person. I can only hope that they will be able to tell me one way or the other. Though one would think that an experienced doctor could tell the difference between 870 and 2200 implants less than 3 weeks after the procedure.

 

I let you guys know more Monday.

 

As always, much thanks.

[Scrounge]

UPDATE

 

Today I scheduled two consultation with two different HT clinics. The first was with Dr. Glenn Charles in Boca Raton, FL and the second with Dr.Ricardo Mejia in Jupiter. FL.

Let me start by saying that I scheduled these appointments last Friday and both Dr.s made time to see me today (the following Monday). Both Dr.s were extremely helpful given the situation. I was up front with both docs., explaining that I was at there office for 3 reasons. (1) They came highly recommended by this board. (2) I am questioning my results of my HT (no Dr. names or HT amounts given). (3) I am looking for a more qualified Dr. to perform repair work on my hairline and possibly provide more density in the future, since I haven't been too pleased with past results. They both personally spent a lot of time examining my scalp and sharing their opinions. To say the least, they were both amazingly helpful, beyond my greatest expectations.

 

1st Appt. Dr. Charles

I arrived at 9:15am for my 9:30 consult. I filled out the paperwork to the level I felt comfortable (no S.S. #, no work info, no insurance info). My paperwork was taken without question and I was told the doctor would see me shortly. About 9:40 am I was asked into the consultation office by the consultant to review my condition. I explained my situation, she wrote everything down and then went to get the Dr. The Dr. came in about 10 mins later. He went over my situation thoroughly. Dr. Charles even brought in Dr. Jeffrey S. Epstein, his partner, to get his opinion as well.(So I got two professional opinions) Dr. Charles spent over an hour with me, explaining the hair density of my donor area, the length of my donor strip, the amount of area in my recipient area and how many implants that could have been done.

 

2nd Appt. Dr. Mejia

I arrived at about 11:10 for my 11:00 appt. (Takes a bit of time to get from Boca to Jupiter). Everything went about the same up until the Dr. came in. Dr. Mejia went over everything that Dr. Charles went over, but then took things quite a bit further. He got out his microscope and examined the donor and recipient areas, making note of how many FUs were implanted per sqr cm. He then got out his camera and took multiple pictures of my overall scalp. He also took magnified pictures of 1 sqr. cm. sections of the donor and recipient areas. Dr. Mejia spent and amazing 2 hours with me, doing all of this without my request. He also said that I could come by and pick up the pictures he took at no charge. WOW!.

 

Results.

ALL of the doctors agreed that there was NO WAY I got 2200 implants for two reasons.

(1) There is no way that a 14 to 15 cm donor strip at 1 to 1.5 cm width (including removal of donor scar) and 50 FUs per sqr cm, that Dr. L. Shaprio could have got 2200 implants. Here's the math, given on average. (14.5 cm. L. x 1.25 cm. H.) x 50 FUs per sqr. cm. = 906.25. Best case (15 cm. L. x 1.5 cm. H.) x 55 FUs per sqr. cm. = 1237.5.

(2) There is no way that my recipient area would have taken 2200 implants given the size of the area and the number of implants Dr. L. Shapiro put in. Based on the size of my donor area Dr. Shapiro would have had to put in 30 to 40 implants per. sq. cm. Dr. Mejia personally counted an average of 6 to 15 implants per sqr. cm.

 

ALL 3 Drs. estimated that I had between 900 to 1200 implants, without knowing how many I counted or how many were supposedly done by Dr. L. Shapiro. ALL 3 of the Drs.(on their 1st guess) were able to tell me (after their assessments) who the Dr. was that did my HTs.

 

I can't thank these doctors enough for there efforts and time. They all went above and beyond. I can only surmise that this is part of the reason that they are recommended by this site. I'd also like to thank everyone on this site for helping. Without you guys I wouldn't have made it this far.

[Scrounge]

Given the above information I would like some suggestions regarding what I should do next. Has anyone had to deal with or dealt with this situation?

 

I hear/read that Dr. L. Shaprio is famous for dismissing these situations and pushing them off on to his attorney. The attorney then issues a cease and desist.

 

Any advice would be great.

 

Thanks again.

[Scrounge]

I'm going to try to pick up the pictures from Dr. Mejia tomorrow and post them here along with other progress photos.

 

Is there a place to upload here or do I have to provide my own host?

[Guest wanthairs]

scrounge ---

 

my advice to you is to try and get the Dr's opnions in writing about your graft count. I would then demand a refund from The original Dr who performed these procedures. I mean a full refund of everything you have ever gieven him. Start the complaints process through all available channels---would help also to threaten them with putting a website up deailing all your experiences with the clinic. At the leats you will be helping other sufferers out there.

 

I live in Florida too and have had 2 procedures, the first of which failed. I must tell you, not to let distance be a factor in this life changign decision. I ended up going to Hasson and Wong in Vancouver to sort my head and hairline out which they did to the highest levels of skill in the proffession.

 

In anycase--you need to wait about 12 months before you do anything else to your head.

[Scrounge]

Here are some photos.

 

May 09 06: The day after my 36th birthday when I started using Rogain.

 

October 17 06: Approx. 5.25 months after starting Rogain.

 

September 07: My 1st HT, 1350.

 

January 08: Approx. 10 months after 1st HT

 

October 08: My 2nd HT, 1800.

 

September 09: Donor Scar areas of the supposed 2200 HT procedure, 2 weeks after.

 

September 09: Various shots of the recipient area shown in 1 cm. sqr. blocks, 2 weeks after.

 

September 09: Two overall shots of my hairline roughly 2 weeks after my procedure.

[Scrounge]

I'm curious. Is this where the support ends? Hasn't anyone pursued their botched/bogus HTs beyond posting their complaints on a forum?

 

There seem to be so many upset people here. You'd think at least one or two would have advice/experience with regards to what course of action they took.

 

Anyone?

[aaron1234]

Scrounge,

I think you did exactly what you needed to do. You met with a couple other top docs to get an assessment. I would wait for a year after your last HT until you get some repair work done. Legally, I really don't know what to say. Maybe some of the lawyer members on the board could be of more service. I hope this gets sorted out for you.

[Scrounge]

That's what I'm wondering and looking for input on. Did anyone here ever take the next step beyond posting their complaints on a message board? Did anyone ever approach their doctor with their problems? If so, what happened? Did anyone go the legal route?

 

It's just hard to believe no one here has done anything about their failed procedures. Especially since the majoirty's first responce to a botched jod is, "you should sue" or "get your money back".

[Severn]

Originally posted by Scrounge:

That's what I'm wondering and looking for input on. Did anyone here ever take the next step beyond posting their complaints on a message board? Did anyone ever approach their doctor with their problems? If so, what happened? Did anyone go the legal route?

 

It's just hard to believe no one here has done anything about their failed procedures.

 

I know that SMG makes good on a procedure. If you get less than the expected results(scar, yeild, etc.) then they take care of it free of charge. I've read of other coalition doctors giving full refunds on low yields. Others doing repair work at a substantial discount.

 

I think the thing that impressed me the most about SMG is they occasionally do pro bono work.

[Scrounge]

I guess that's great for SMG patients.

[Drew35]

Originally posted by Scrounge:

That's what I'm wondering and looking for input on. Did anyone here ever take the next step beyond posting their complaints on a message board? Did anyone ever approach their doctor with their problems? If so, what happened? Did anyone go the legal route?

 

It's just hard to believe no one here has done anything about their failed procedures. Especially since the majoirty's first responce to a botched jod is, "you should sue" or "get your money back".

 

 

 

Scrounge,

 

wanthairs has already answered your question. You should threaten to sue Larry in order to get your money back!

 

Did Dr Epstein, Dr Charles, and Dr Mejia put their assesment of your hair transplant in writing?

 

Make copies of Dr Mejia's photos to send to Larry Shapiro.

 

You can have an attorney write you a professional letter for $150.

 

Send the assesments and photos with the attorney's letter demanding a REFUND in FULL.

 

 

 

I hope others read your story and understand that when a Dr act likes a used car salesmen that you need to get the hell out of his office before he touches your head!!!!

 

Who gives a crap if he offers you a "deal"...just walk out before he touches your head!!

 

 

Send Larry a link to this thread, also. This should get his attention.

[DDD03]

I always come out of the woodwork to do some L Shapiro bashing

 

Your story sound way too familiar. I experienced EXACTLY the same upsell on the day of the procedure a few years ago. 500 grafts extra. I obviously agreed because I felt if I didn't I wouldn't get the results achieved. And I would be willing to guess he gave me less than half the grafts promised. What a sham.

 

5 years later and I've gone through 2 operations to try to hide the pluggy grafts he gave me. Dr. Feller has photos of grafts in my hairline that had over five hairs in them. Excuse my french but Larry Shapiro is a piece of sh*t and I hope karma delivers him the Mack truck treatment one of these days.

[Scrounge]

Hello all...

 

Well if everything goes how I think it will, I should have a juicy update for all of you in early March.

 

Unfortunately that's all I can say for now.

 

Just thought I'd check in.

[Scrounge]

Well it's been a little over a year since my last procedure with "Dr. Lawrence Shapiro". The passing of that year has left me with a great story to tell and even a better ending.

 

Since I'm freshly off my corrective surgery with Dr. Gleen Charles, I'm not really in the best frame of mind to be documenting the past year. But I promise it will be soon.

[Scrounge]

This is the update. Maybe I should start another thread I'm not sure. But here goes.

You should probably start by reading the (4) letters below. I got the first one 12-14-09 after posting here. I then sent a response 1-4-2010. I got the attorny's next letter 2-15-10 after posting here that I would have an update. I sent my final response 2-27-10 and haven't heard a thing since. But by the content of the letters it is pretty obvious that Dr. Shapiro patrols these forums.

 

You'll notice that I've removed the attorney's information and my name from the letters. Even though Dr. Shapiro's attorney's name is public record, I felt it was best to keep him out of the mix for now. However, if I am challenged to provide documentation to validate my claims I can.

 

Attorney X's first letter to me.

My response...

This is Attorney X's second letter. It came with 66 pages of BS that didn't offer much if anything to substantiate his/Dr. Shapiro's claims. All of this information can be provided if necessary. It will just take me some time to edit for anonymity, upload and post.

This is my second and last response...

 

Please feel free to ask questions. I have photos that I plan on posting as well. I just wish I had a better file host than photo bucket. I am also going to start another thread regarding my last procedure with Dr. Glenn Charles. ( Night and Day difference, BTW)

Edited October 10, 2010 by Scrounge

[Scrounge]

Here are some pictures of my past and present procedures.

 

The first picture is of my scalp after my first procedure with Dr. Shapiro the second is of my scalp after my most recent procedure with Dr. Glenn Charles. You'll notice several major differences between these two pictures. Shapiro's placement is quite linear, which leaves you with what I would consider a unnatural looking hair line. Charles' placement is more random and uneven, like I think a real hairline would look. Shapiro appears to use a lager blade, which was more tramatic to my sclap. My scalp was numb for months after the Shapiro procedures. But I had very little numbness if any right after the Dr. Charles procedure. From what I've read, since Shapiro uses a larger tool there is more of a chance to shock surrounding hairs. A larger tool would also prevent dense placement.

The next three picture are of my hair line after my third procedure with Dr. Shapiro. The first is two weeks post op. and the next two are one year post op. Before my second and third procedure with Shapiro I specifically requested a softer, more natural looking hair line. Both times he assured me that I would get those results by the placement of single hair grafts on my front line. As you'll notice by the pictures his staff placed multiple, multi-follicle grafts on my front hair line.

LEFT PROFILE

LEFT PROFILE

RIGHT PROFILE

Something else you'll find interesting is the placement angle that Dr. Shapiro uses. Shapiro places the grafts on the front of the scalp straight up and down. From what I've read, typically the hair grows forward on the front of the scalp. Which is how Dr. Charles places his grafts.

The next two pictures are one year post op. of the scar I had after my third procedure with Dr. Shapiro. Now I know some will say, "Hey shouldn't you expect a significant scar after three procedures?". Well after Dr. Charles was done with my transplant and scar revision, I say no. The scar I was left with after my third procedure with Shapiro was awful. As you can see in the picture below, it was nearly one full centimeter wide. If I used a #5 guard on my shaver to cut my hair you could still see it. After a fresh hair cut I would have to use a topical to cover it.

Not only was the scar wide, but it was also deep. Deep enough to leave an indent in my skin to the point it was clearly noticeable with my medium length hair. The indent caused the hairs to be misdirected. (See diagram below). It looked odd, kind of like I had been wearing a hat without ever wearing the hat. I actually had several hair stylists try to comb it out and they ultimately realized what is was once they noticed the scar's width. Needless to say, getting a haircut was aggravating and a bit embarrassing.

I'm not sure what causes this indent. However, I'm going to guess it's caused by Dr. Shapiro's closing method. He uses, or at least on me used a single layer closing. Where he pulls the two top layers of skin together and stitches them. Dr. Charles uses a two layer closing that pulls the flesh under the skin together and then the top layer of skin together. This I imagine leaves no gap under the top layer of skin for an indent to form. I can also tell you that the scar already feels different. There is no dip/indent and it is already less noticeable.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Scrounge

[Gandolf]

Wow! That is one crazy experience you had with those letters! I always saw Larry Shapiro's prices and wondered how he could undercut the competition so badly, I guess if you're going to charge for a number of grafts and not actually deliver, that explains it.

 

Did your last letter to the attorney end things with them?