Is it time we become more responsible??

[rp1979]

.

 

 

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/00/Dec00/121800/pav0001.pdf

 

 

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/nda/97/20788_PROPECIA%20TAB...%201MG_BIOPHARMR.PDF

 

 

.

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

So the first study states .5 could be as effective as 1 mg ?

 

Elborate .. dont have time to read the 2nd

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bezane,

 

I apologize...I was under the impression (don't know where I gathered this from) that you tried Propecia and had side effects from it. My mistake.

 

But yes, i am an advocate of considering Propecia in their regime, of course, since this can only be prescribed by a doctor - it's up to the doctor to prescribe or not prescribe them if they are a "candidate" for the medication, if you want to call it that.

 

I am not anti-medication - though I hate that side effects are always possible with every drug.

 

I prefer a cure, but we aren't there yet.

 

Anyway...

 

I feel similarly to Mrjb on this thread.

 

Whereas presenting concerns about medication is COMPLETELY VALID, I believe one should be objective when discussing the data - discussing the PROS as well as the CONS.

 

Stating there is no need to present the other side of the story basically states "I have an agenda". What is that agenda? I can't say with certainty....but it SOUNDS like a tactic to scare all people away from trying medication.

 

So when I advocate researching or considering medication, do I have an agenda? I sure do! My agenda is to help, to the best educate people on how to restore their hair, to the best of my ability. Maybe I can be accused of not sharing both sides of te story when I mention people to consider/research/take it. Perhaps I should be more mindful of that by sticking to words like "research" and "consult a doctor about..." etc.

 

But...for those who are selling the other side of the story...

 

So should we all become bald and live with it? There are risks with surgery too - moreso than medicine sometimes...should we stay away from that too?

 

Heck, I would rather be content with a bald head and not have gone through any of this - but at the same time, I look better with hair, and am glad that I went through 3 HTs. And I'm glad I MIGHT be keeping my existing hair below my crown with finasteride. If I start experiencing side effects from the medication, I will stop.

 

Believe me...I understand your points - but I still believe medication is the best line of defence and should be CONSIDERED when researching how to keep or regrow your hair.

 

AND YES, BE WARNED: SIDE EFFECTS, THOUGH SAID TO BE MINIMAL AND REVERSIBLE, ARE POSSIBLE!

 

 

Bill

[calvinmd]

I think something is being overlooked here:

 

Does anyone really think that Finasteride is still gonna be the only real MPB treatment decades from now? I don't, and I'm pretty pessimistic about the timeframes of medical advancements in general.

 

With the advice to the younger guys to "skip the HTs, take the Fin," I don't think we're necessarily pointing them at a lifetime of Finasteride, so much as a few years of it. Maybe 5-10 years, but probably not 25 years. And dropping Fin may not be great for your hair, but I'll take a few years of Fin usage (assuming a gradual tapering-down upon quitting) over no Fin usage at all.

 

I really think that a college kid starting Finasteride for loss prevention right now is gonna have other options (that actually work well) by the time they hit 35. Maybe even a little earlier.

 

 

------------------------------------------------

[AndrewYoung]

I haven't heard anyone talk about the other side effect....lack of morning wood. I think we should be responsible enough to discuss why it does that and what are the ramifications there. Also, finesteride-ridden semen causes birth defects. That can't be good, can it?

 

I am on the meds now but how long? I am not sure. I understand that coming off them might mean more loss and perhaps the need for an additional future HT. But I've often wondered if another 5 or 7 grand isn't worth being done with it in the future and not taking any more meds. Plus, I'd like my morning wood back!

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

At this point I think all of the possible side effects have been mentioned. The conclusion is

Yes, there can be side effects as with any chemical we put in our systems.. With that being said, it does not mean you will get any as everyone is different..

 

As any medication goes, do the research and make an educated decision with your doctor.. See if it affects you negatively or not..

 

I agree, there certainly will be additional treatments in the years to come ( i hope)

[chibbler1]

I'm 50 now but when I was around 40 I started taking propecia . At the time my girlfriend was somewhat of a "rabbit" we were doing it at least 10x per week . The propecia pretty much stopped my hairloss from progressing - but my sex drive was cut way down and my "woodys" were'nt as good . After a month or so I made the connection between my decrease in "romantic times" and the propecia - I quit takeing it and within a couple of months my drive was ALMOST what it was before I started taking the drug . But my hairloss continued as before .

I have never taken propecia again , I could only imagine what that drug would have done to me after 10 years or so . I have'nt heard alot about Propecia and cancer but I have heard and read about decreased sex drive , and connection between taking and having ambiguous babies - remember it is a hormone and the principle it works on is that women dont lose thier hair so that by men taking it - it will curtail hairloss but really what else may it do ? Think about it ....

chibbler

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

Again, yes, side effects are possible and decreased sex drive is a possible one. Personally, there has been zero change in my sex drive.. But again, look at any chemical you but in your body. Do a search on any chemical and the possible side effects. You won't want to drink, take , or put anything in your body..

Alcohol,smoking,& recreational drugs can cause serious damage to your body..

 

all drugs should be really looked at in a serious light.

[Janna]

This is a great topic and both sides have valid points. There's one thing I wanted to interject from the following quote from bezane:

 

"So my point is not "it's all about money and they're all corrupt." I know they have a business and I know they have bills to pay and I for one never asked a surgeon for a discount. But the average doctor makes $75 on the initial prescription. It's huge when you tally it up".

 

When our doctors write prescriptions, whether it's for Propecia, painkillers, or antibiotics, etc., they do not make any money from them. We do dispense Propecia Propaks (3 months supply) from our clinic; however, our profit is less than $10 per pack. We provide the propaks more as a convenience for the patients than as a money maker. When you weigh in time and man power to ship them out, it's pretty much a wash out.

 

I personally don't like Merck (they overcharge) and would love to say Propecia is pure junk. But then I would be lying because I have seen great results from its use. It doesn't work on everyone, but when it does, it's been tremendous.

 

Let's face reality, whether you're 22 or 42, who wants to take medications forever? I'm hopeful like Calvinmd. There's bound to be other treatments for hairloss sufferers in the not too distant future.

[finnari]

I laugh when I read posts that say doctors dont make any money off the drugs. Drug companies send doctors on posh vacations and give all kinds of perks for using their drugs.

 

What else do you get when you go see a doctor. They know nothing about nutrition. They write you a script for drugs. Their whores for the drug industry.

 

I see their training every day. You get a report of symptoms, make a diagnosis, order expensive tests and then write prescriptions.

 

Western medicine is excellent for trauma and surgery. For most illnesses it is very limited.

 

You must decide when you put a pill in your mouth how much more of a benefit you recieve vs. the possible damage the medicine might cause. Your responsible not the doctor.

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

Last point.. Making money is not a crime.. We all get paid for a job we do ( most of us).. Does this mean we do it just for the money and we are dishonest.. No... Doctors can be a hell of a more dishonest in other area's in order to make money.. I do not think most docs prescibe Propecia for the massive amounts of money they make..

 

I think this thread has really focused on some of the "wrong" reasons. My whole stance on this thread was every point that is brought up can be relavant to anything from Diet cola's to aspirn..

 

If you do not want any potential possible side effects or support a drug caompany who spends billions on advertising do not take Propecia.. With the same reasoning, do not smoke, drink, drink diet coke, go in the sun, or do anything which is supported by huge marketing dollars which may lead to a fatal outcome indicated by some people's side effects..

[Gorpy]

Originally posted by finnari:

Western medicine is excellent for trauma and surgery. For most illnesses it is very limited.

 

 

So, God forbid you become ill, but if you do are you going to head East and try their medicine?

[NervousNelly]

Gorpy,

 

Interesting question. My wife and I are creating a living will and it is going to outline different things about healthcare. I don't believe that we will opt for western medicines methods of treating cancer and definitely don't want any artificial means of life support.

 

Ofcourse both of us practise to stay healthy and exercise and eat healthy and have read many books and journals about natural health. It is our choice and what we believe but respect others for their choices. It is a very challenging topic and one that I think people should think about prior to them having to.

 

NN

[Gorpy]

It is an interesting discussion. I'm not one to "throw out the baby with the bath water". By that I mean, there are some extremely good things about western medicine and wester drugs created by greedy pharmaceutical companies. On the other hand there is value in holistic approaches. I think a balance is the best approach.

 

I personally take Lipitor, as cholesterol reducing statin created by those evil western pharma's that are only interested in money. Believe me, I resisted this for a long time. I tried diets, including adding this and that. But guess, what? I am just one of those people who creates a lot of cholesterol. I can eat nothing but lettuce, exercise my butt off and my cholesterol will not go under 230 (I've tried). It's in my genes. So, it was either take the medicine or most likely suffer an early heart attack.

 

So, let's go back to the Finasteride issue. Is it a no-brainer decision to ingest a drug - no, it requires some thought. In my experience I've found that if I drink a little too much, it can have a negative effect on the ol' "morning wood". Yet, I've never experienced any negative effect from Fin. So which is worse? Hmmm... interesting stuff. I don't know all the answers, but we all ingest "stuff" that's proabably not good for us.

 

On the other hand, you can eat a normal diet, not be on any medication, not smoke or drink and die at 35 of cancer like my father.

[calvinmd]

Picture this: What if Finasteride were NOT an official hair loss drug?

 

Then this would be a whole different discussion. There would probably be TONS of posters all the time saying that the stuff is the cure to hair loss with virtually no side effects, but the evil Pharma industry is just keeping it from us so we'll go bald. If it weren't available, the feedback around the 'net would probably be that it's the cure-all with hardly any more side-effect instances than Advil.

 

Just look at the side effect numbers for Dutasteride, and then look at how much inquiry there is about why it's not available for MPB yet.

 

 

Finasteride isn't perfect and it isn't without risks & sides. That's why it's only sold with a perscription.

IMHO people just need to do some research and decide for themselves about it.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest]

Its funny how Rogaine started out as a prescription drug then the FDA deemed it safe enough to buy over the counter.

 

I got a prescription of rogaine when it first came out. I quit soon after because of heart palpatations.

 

I wonder how long before finesteride is sold over the counter?

 

Although my general doctor told me that the side efeects of finesteiride reported by guys on the anti finesteride forums are crazy, I'm still convinced I have had some sides with propecia.

 

Everything still works ok but IT seems a bit more rubbery if you will.

But after quitting for a day, I decided to muddle through & have now been on it for 5 months.

 

It seemed like it was working at first but now I think I am experiencing some shedding & my crown seems worse off than before I started using it.

 

Again, I will give it more time, probably 7 more months, that will be 1 year & see what happens.

[DitMartian]

Thanks for this discussion.

 

I am planning on going on Propecia sometime soon and would like to give it one year - just to see.

 

I've been using Rogaine for a couple of years and have found my situatin just getting worse and worse, but I'm too paranoid to stop using it for fear that things will REALLY get disastrous. ???

 

I'm usually wary of drugs - I DON'T aspirin and things like that (maybe a sinus pill if I'm desperate.) But I wanna try everything.

 

Thanks for mentioning sex drive and morning wood. I have a pretty low sex drive as it is, and I've wondered if I'd become some sort of eunich. I HOPE NOT! lol

 

But I have a question:

Does finasteride affect body hair at all?

 

Can anyone report their experience?

[NervousNelly]

DitMartian,

 

I guess all you can do is give it a try and hope that you don't get any side effects. In regards to Rogaine, that is where these drug companies have us by the short hairs. We become paranoid to quite even though it may not be working. Personally what I would do in your case is stop and try to supplement with something natural that increases blood flow. Even if it has no evidence of ever helping ones hair, it is a mental thing you do to play with your mind and make you comfortable in quitting.

 

Finasteride has been known to increase body hair or make it healthier looking.

 

 

NN

[Guest]

DitMartian, Don't you think if you try the propecia for a year that you will fall into the same trap as you did with the Rogaine?

[youngsuccess]

I thought DHT is partly responsible for the growth of body hair? In that case, how would reducing the level of DHT in the body stimulate more of it?

[NervousNelly]

youngsuccess,

 

You're correct, it is a matter of how his question was interpreted.

 

 

NN

[Rick055]

First of all, as it has already been said, the decision to use any prescription medication for any purpose is an individual one and I don't judge anyone for their decision either way. I myself have used finasteride a few times but discontinued primarily because of fear.

 

I think on some subconscious level, we are all a bit wary of the drug. I can rationalize to myself that it is safe (after all, there are studies and FDA approval, right?), but I have a nagging suspicion that it isn't. I hear too much anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.

 

At the end of the day, the questions I am left asking myself are whether it's worth altering my hormones to *possibly* save some hair. For me the answer is no, and I will never again use the drug (unless directed to do so by a physician for a prostate issue).

 

Interestingly, I am about to begin hormone replacement therapy (testosterone - for legitimate physiological need)and my doctor is reluctant to use finasteride even for it's original purpose - to control serum DHT. He has also indicated that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular action / conversion in the scalp.

 

At any rate, I truly hope all of you who have made the choice to use finasteride have safety and success with it, but I think we would all do well to remember that, in the final analysis, we are more than the sum of our follicular units.

 

The human body God (however you understand Him) gave us is a beautiful and unique gift.

[calvinmd]

I don't think it's a question of whether or not Fin is "safe." We all know it's not 1000% safe, almost nothing that we use for medication is totally problem-free. (And if it was, then it would be sold OTC.) It's just a question of whether the side effects are significant enough to make it worth using or not.

 

Technically speaking, I'll bet that Fin's side effects are probably present in every user and it's just a question of severity. That's how it goes with all kinds of other drugs that we consider relatively "safe."

 

 

------------------------------------------------

[Dr Rajesh Rajput]

I would introduce the members to a unique approach of Cyclical medicine followed by me over past 8 years. Finasteride in used 1mg only once in 3-days and not everyday. You see dose trials on finasteride, a minimum dose of 0.2mg per day was effective in achievivg 60% DHT supression whereas 0.5mg had 2% more efefct and 1mg per day had 64% effect with 5mg per day being only marginally better. Finasteride has excellent receptor binding property. I have sucessfully used finasteride 1mg only once in three days to achieve good hair growth with no fear of side effects and also no loss of sensitivity on long term treatment and no hyper or rebound loss if discontinued after long time use. When combined with supportive supplements of iron, calcium, antioxidants and essential aminoacids for buiding up hair. I have seen 20 - 30% new hair growth and improvement in thickness measured in microns on a computerized folliscope, plus rise in the hair counts with just 4 months one single telogen cycle. Results can be seen on my website www.hairlossindia.com. I have applied for permission to have double blind trials which will commence very soon. As of now this Cyclical approach is a good answer to the present problems. Hair growth is seen at any age and at any grade of hair loss. Medicine can act only on living roots it cannot grow back th edead roots. But not all roots are dead. 30-40%Roots that are miniaturized are just dormant. You give them proper support and protection to grow and these will respond withion one cycle of 4 months.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Dr Rajesh Rajput:

I would introduce the members to a unique approach of Cyclical medicine followed by me over past 8 years.

 

I cant believe you doc.

Not only do you cheat patients like Sahil of their hard earned money (remember Sahil), you have the gall to talk about some mumbo jumbo like cycle medicine.

 

Is there any published paper on your cycle medicine or do you want us to belive it on blind faith just the way you wanted Sahil to believe the 800 grafts you put were 2400?

 

Be a man, answer Sahil first. Better still, return his money. And issue your apology, before you start to sully the rep of this ite with your cretin remarks.