NYC doc-- Feller or Dorin?

[Dewayne]

I disagree Bruceman. There are some docs who actually stay in surgery all day, and barely have time to eat lunch much less be in tune with the net. My doctor was in at 6:45 and only left the room for about 15 minutes during the whole 11-hour procedure, excluding a 30-minute lunch. Maybe he thinks someone is posting his stuff, I don't know. But I'm 100% satisfied so I figure that's all he's concerned about.

 

Some understand it, but not to the degree of someone like Dr. Feller; who has no doubt used it and his skills to become legendary.

 

Heck, I figure Dr. Feller already has plenty of patients booked so I was suprised he would dual it out online with Aaron. Kind of brings him down to almost a mere mortal in my eyes...

[Guest]

Nah Dewayne. I can't agree with you. Are you saing that doc epstein can find the time to fly to NY, chicago, and London, but can't find 5 minutes to post some quality photos of his patients? Sounds like a cop out to me. Whats more is that he has a salesman who he pays to handle that stuff for him. Can't he just post the pictures for the doc? I don't buy that he doesn't have the time. Maybe he just doesn't have the results. That's my guess.

 

Feller was clearly p.o.ed and he reacted harshly, but that was only after epstein purposefully interfered with him showing his photos. If I were attacked that way by a competitor I'd be a little peeved too. Why should epstein care how many photos feller shows? He should just show his own photos everytime feller shows his and the individual can judge for himself who is best. Doc epstein tried to block doc feller from showing his results and succeeded. When the ban was lifted, looks like feller wasted no time steamrolling over doc epstein with excellent photos. High quality and quantity.

 

I don't get the sense at all that doc feller was soliciting for business in his post, it looks like he was trying to make a point and he succeeded very well in doing it in my opinion.

 

I would like to see many more pictures from other docs. But I usually only see the same few docs posting regularly. Hasson, wong, shapiro, and alexander. I'm sure these guys are booked out for months as well, but they have the time to show their results regularly. Nah, time isn't the issue here. I don't buy it.

Bruce

[condoguy]

Bruceman, I find your attacks on Dr. Epstein uncalled for.

 

Dr Epstein is a respected member of this coalition and an excellent surgeon with proven results. his website is one of the most extensive of any HT doctor's out there with page after page of before and after photos as well as videos.

 

Dewayne is correct to suggest that many coalition doctors either don't feel the need or don't have the time to post here constantly, but that is not to say they are not good surgeons.

 

So to say that Dr. Epstein is "jealous" of Dr. Feller because he has no results to show for himself is laughable. I don't think any doctor on here should be "steamrolling" over anyone as you have stated. In fact,Bill has correctly asked Dr. Feller in this thread to calm his aggressive attitude toward Dr. Epstein and staff.

[Dewayne]

I read that old thread Spex posted above and it's pretty clear something else must have happened between October and now.

 

I agree with what Dr. Feller posted back in October that clinics shouldn't be posting in "which doctor is best" threads, but it appears his opinion may have changed.

 

It seems Dr. Epstein was a little quick to jump to the offensive back in October, but I also can agree as I wouldn't pay to be on a patient educational site if it turned in to a big commercial competition.

 

If you read the original thread Spex has posted and then read this one it looks like there are a few contradictions so who knows...

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Education and information dissemination is and should be the main focus of this or any forum. However, there are also rules and procedures that must be agreed upon and observed in order to present this information in a useful and sensible way.

 

I have always worked within the rules and focused on being a "positive" poster. The only time I have gone negative is when I've seen results of work so poor or illogical that it was my ethical obligation to speak out to help patients protect themselves. But even then I didn't just throw out negative comments, I gave long explanations, usually accompanied by photos, to demonstrate my objections.

 

I have always observed the rules and regulations of this forum. For years I've posted my results, answered questions, and got involved in threads where my input was requested or advisable. I've worked posting into my daily routine as it only takes a few minutes every few hours. It's a joy to show ones accomplishments to the world and receive feedback. The positive comments are reassuring, and the negative comments tell me which areas I'm weak in so I can firm them up. No doctor is above criticism. No tool is better for receiving it than the forum.

 

Bruceman was right in pointing out that I was harsh in this post. It stung when a "point of parliamentary procedure" was raised against me a few months ago for something I and other doctors had been doing for years. Charges of unfairness and "evil marketing" were leveled unfairly against me. All doctors on this site are marketing themselves. That's what drives this and all other communities. Pat and Bill have to eat, and so do all the doctors, including the one who leveled the charge at me himself. But I NEVER looked at this site as just a marketing opportunity and I certainly never saw it is an arena for head to head competition.

 

Of course me and the other doctors are competitors. But there are MORE than enough patients to go around if more doctors post good work and keep working together to upend the top heavy visibility of the large chains and lousy results of independents. I view this kind of competition as an endless foot race. I run my race, the next doctor should run his race, and so on. Head to head competition doesn't apply.

 

So you might understand my frustration when years after running my own race that all of a sudden a competitor runner screams to stop the race and points his finger at me accusatorily. Then, after making his appeal on grounds of unfairness that is beyond my comprehension he actually convinces the administration to penalize me. I think that would outrage anyone. I felt such a "rule" limited the openness of the forum and just a few months later I was proved right and the rule was reversed.

 

Dewayne, I do agree that we docs can all agree to be "hands off" when it comes to posts that ask for comparisons. I've always disliked those kinds of posts because I thought answering them was distasteful and embarrasingly self promotional, but NOT answering them makes it look like the docs under consideration are ignoring the poster and AFRAID of competing. A very uneasy position.

 

Had all the docs or the HTN administration put the issue up for consideration BEFORE I was singled out as some sort of cheater, then I would have voted FOR the rule voluntarily WITH certain exceptions. But having a new, restrictive, and unfairly broad "rule" created as a response to a nebulous charge leveled against me for supposed and unsupported "unfair play" made me an all out opponent of the rule and resentful of the doc who brought the charge.

 

As Spex pointed out, this is a tempest in a tea cup and will blow over. Dr. Epstein contacted me and we will talk to resolve the issues ourselves and keep HTN updated.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller and Spex (and other forum members),

 

I want to make it clear that Dr. Epstein was not the reason that I originally enforced a rule that physicians and consultants should stay clear of doctor comparison threads. Yes, Dr. Epstein did discuss his thoughts with me, but this was something I was already toying with before I even spoke with him. His words only reinforced my feelings on the matter.

 

We try to maintain a delicate balance between running an open forum and keeping this forum educational in nature. The "spirit" of the rule that I created was to protect the patient and keep it educational and free from blatant promotion. However, I changed the rule when I realized that some quality educational content was being missed when consultants and physicians couldn't involve themselves. But since there is no rule, it is YOU physicians and consultants that have to be vigilant and respectful toward one another and ESPECIALLY the patients seeking!

 

In my opinion, plastering pictures and links all over a doctor comparison thread is highly promotional and plain and simple, I don't want to see it again. In my opinion, this shows a lack of respect both for the seeking patient to make up their own mind without bias and for other physicians who don't make as much time as others to post.

 

The "find" feature on our forum community is very user friendly and patients can easily find patient photos posted by each clinic. Patient photos are often regularly updated when physicians submit them to our webmaster. They can be viewed on the doctor profile pages on the Hair Transplant Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center.

 

These types of comparison threads should be more like a "consumer report" for seeking patients rather than an "advertising campaign" convoluted with physicians trying to grab any business they can get.

 

Physicians, have faith in your own work posted around the forum. For those of you not as involved, I encourage you to be. You can't increase your online visibility unless you get involved and show your work. On the flip side, don't be excessive and don't be greedy. This is not the "Dr. X forum", this is the "Hair Transplant Network Patient Forum". As Dr. Feller rightfully said, there are plenty of patients for everyone. So let's encourage them to do their own research without shoving results down their throat.

 

I am not going to reinforce a rule again at this time, but I am going to ask respectfully that if physicians and consultants feel that they MUST address these types of "which doctor is best" type threads, that they do it in the interest of EDUCATION and RESPECT for other physicians. Work together and respect each other!

 

And now, it's time to move on!

 

Bill

[MORE_HAIR]

Hey Dr.Epstein.

 

Glad you enjoyed the Horse race.

 

I think all the docs mentioned in this thread are great Docs.

 

I will tell you though...Dr.Epstein is a total class act.

 

This fact is not only reflected in this thread but if anyone meets him in person you will leave the consult realizing not only have you met a passionate Doctor who's not full of himself...but also a regular guy..MD or not.

 

MH

[dakota3]

MORE_HAIR,

I COULDNT AGREE W/ YOU MORE! NOT ONLY IS HE NOT FULL OF HIMSELF, BUT HE IS ALSO VERY MODEST CONSIDERING THE INCREDIBLE WORK HE DOES! PEOPLE DONT BE FOOLED, DR E. IS ONE OF THE BEST DESPITE HIS LACK OF ONLINE VISIBILITY!

[Guest]

You guys have to start getting real. doc epstein may be a nice guy but he has shown little in the way of great work. When I look at his latest pictures I see a beard transplant on a transexual and a reverse chest hair transplant and eyebrows. Where are the real hair transplant results?

Look at the picture gallary of doc (paul)shapiro, now that's great work. I have not seen anything put up by doc epstein, his salesman, or any of his patients that even comes close to matching that.

 

Where's the beef?

 

More_Hair and dakota3 post a link to any recent doc epstein photos that even match doc shapriro's. Don't just SAY that he is a nice guy, back it up! You say he has great results, where are they? I went to his website and I went to hasson and wong website and theres no comparison at all.

 

Being a nice guy doesn't get him out of his requirment to show updated results. And if ever he should show them off it would be now.

 

Bruce

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by Bruceman:

You guys have to start getting real. doc epstein may be a nice guy but he has shown little in the way of great work. When I look at his latest pictures I see a beard transplant on a transexual and a reverse chest hair transplant and eyebrows. Where are the real hair transplant results?

Look at the picture gallary of doc (paul)shapiro, now that's great work. I have not seen anything put up by doc epstein, his salesman, or any of his patients that even comes close to matching that.

 

Where's the beef?

 

More_Hair and dakota3 post a link to any recent doc epstein photos that even match doc shapriro's. Don't just SAY that he is a nice guy, back it up! You say he has great results, where are they? I went to his website and I went to hasson and wong website and theres no comparison at all.

 

Being a nice guy doesn't get him out of his requirment to show updated results. And if ever he should show them off it would be now.

 

Bruce

 

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/Share-Info/patient...rID=36&PatientID=765

[dakota3]

Dewayne,

Thanks, you beat me to the punch! How's everything working out w/ you? Dr. Cooley doesnt post here alot. Does that mean he's not as good as others who post here? I dont think so!

Bruceman,

Just because Dr. E doesnt post 10X a day doesnt mean he doesnt do quality work. And yes he is a nice guy! Thats a bonus to his work and not the only reason people choose him! Do some more research and dont just go with the popular concensus.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I also agree Epstein does good work. I think his conservative approach is why you dont see many jawdropping results like others on here.

His results are always nice but not exciting.

[hairthere]

I think equally important to seeing good online results is finding happy patients, or unhappy patients. for example, i couldn't find a single happy patient of karamikian online but did find 4 unhappy ones. conversely, i found many happy feller patients. these forums are a great resource but prospective patients shouldn't use this as the ONLY resource.

[MORE_HAIR]

You nailed it Please Grow Please.

 

 

 

MH

[Fact Hunt]

Some of you guys should chill out a bit.sorry

[richie48]

haahahhahaahahhaha

 

fact hunt hahahaha say it fast ! say it fast !

mint !

 

cool name hahahah

richie

[Guest]

pleasegrowplease you make the most sense. I have not seen jawdropping results from epstein and your reason satisfies me.

 

dewayne and dekota, are you two the bobsey twins? When ever one shows up, the other is never far behind and you two say the same exact things.

 

doc epstein may be a nice guy, but there's a reason irish homer went to doc feller after he already had surgery with doc epstein. No playing on words or ganging up is going to let you twist around that reality. And he didn't have to go to feller. he's not the only great doc out there. He could have gone to hasson or wong or either (paul) or (ron) shapiro. No matter which, he chose not to go back to doc epstein and that says alot without saying anything.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bruceman,

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but let's keep it real: it's your opinion. Many others obviously disagree with you.

 

Many patients are enamoured with hair transplant megasessions of over 3000 and even 4000 grafts, and in many cases, rightfully so, but these aren't appropriate for every patient. The majority of Dr. Epstein's displayed work here on the forum is between 2000 and 2500 grafts which certainly isn't going to "wow" anyone who is only "wowed" by larger sessions. Dr. Epstein however, does do larger sessions of over 3000 grafts when appropriate for the patient. He has never been in the practice of posting results on a regular basis and now since Aaron has just come on the scene, hopefully we'll see more of these.

 

But none of this means that he doesn't perform high quality work. In my opinion, he is consistently producing high growth yields and cosmetically pleasing natural results.

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bruceman,

I appreaciate your position on docs showing lots of honest pictures. I get it and support it. But please don't make comparisons like the irish homer one. They serve no purpose and only polarize the people on this site, which in the end makes coming on here unpalatable.

 

Furthermore, your comparison is an invalid one as my work was in addition to Dr. Epstein's prior work and as such benefitted from it. Who knows what my transplant on him would have looked like if he were a virgin head? It might have been exactly the same.

 

I've read your posts and you seem to be very "show me oriented",but I must say that some of your opinions are bit beyond the pale of the industry's abilities.

 

Please keep posting and contributing constructively to this community, there are many newbies out there who are not as knowlegdable as you and may become confused by some of your writings. Please try to keep that in mind in the future. You would have my sincere appreciation as would this community.

 

Thank you,

 

Dr. Feller

[the B spot]

Interesting thread.

 

I see nothing wrong with anything posted here whatsoever.

 

It is any doctor or doctor representatives right to use this forum to display their results---- We WANT the results as patients, We clamor for more doctor participation and in order for doctors to do this, most need to hire someone to take care of this for them.

 

It seems there are those who want more doctor involvement as long as it does not overtly benefit the clinic--- that is not a proper train of thought, especially given the time necessary to maintain an online relationship with the various communities.

 

Pat is 100% right that clinics who provide world-class results and maintain an online presence continue to have patient after patient mentioning them, whereas other docs who do great work are not.

 

It is not the clinic who is proactive who should be castigated for this, rather, like Pat said, it should be the clinic who is content to share very little and subsequently never face true criticism who should be called to task.

 

Additionally, we are very critical of new doctors and their work, which some doctors are unwilling to face--- A good example of how to begin a relationship with this community is Dr. Lindsey-- who has been very involved and open to questions about his work and general questions.

 

It has been pointed out that Dr. Feller is very active online.....and why not? When you have a good product--a consistent product that is able to provide the transparency necessary to withstand the criticism of laypeople, it is educational AND good business.

 

On another note: The criticism leveled at Dr. Epstien is unwarranted and not correct. You don't make it very long within the online community without being very good at what you do and making sure you take care of your patients.

 

There are many results that I see that I say, "Well, the guy could have gotten more grafts," or "Maybe higher density would have served this patient better" --- that can be said about even the greatest doctors from time to time.

 

What sets the BEST doctors apart is the FINISHED product AND whether the patient is happy with the results.

 

Helping patients find a great doc is what this site is all about---as long as that is the end result, there should be no problem.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Well said B.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dear forum members,

 

The difficulty we face is maintaining a delicate balance between running an open discussion forum and keeping it from becoming strictly promotional. Where should the line be drawn if one should be drawn at all?

 

On one hand I firmly believe that clinics who get involved online are an asset to this community. I also have no problem with promotion as long as honest results and information is being shared. After all, patients are seeking information and want to see real results.

 

But is there a point where too much clinical involvement will overrun patient involvement? Do we want a patient driven community or one that is mostly clinic based? How can we maintain a delicate balance between them to be fair both to our recommended clinics and patients?

 

I have tried to help maintain this balance by asking physicians and clinics to stay clear of "who is best" type threads. Though some agreed with this, others did not. And in the interest of keeping things as open as possible to everyone, I have lifted the rule.

 

At the same time, in my opinion, it is in poor taste to promote on these types of threads for a number of reasons. One, it may drive doctors to feel that they must compete against one another for patients which can lead to a lack of respect for one another, and two which in my opinion is even worse, the prospective patient is forgotten and lost.

 

Case in point, what ever happened "kiss" who started this thread? Has he been completely forgotten? I'd love to hear from him as to whether or not this thread has been helpful or harmful to his research.

 

Generally speaking, I don't think there is a perfect answer to this conundrum. So for now, I encourage doctors and consultants to feel free to post, but do so in the interest of patient education and be respectful to your peers.

 

Feel free also to add your thoughts on the topic posted by Pat entitled: Getting Leading Physicians Active on this Forum.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[dakota3]

Posted by DR Feller .Please keep posting and contributing constructively to this community, there are many newbies out there who are not as knowlegdable as you and may become confused by some of your writings. Please try to keep that in mind in the future. You would have my sincere appreciation as would this community.

 

The very fact that bruceman is ripping DR.E's work proves that he is not very knowlegable. Anyone w/ any sense at all would relize that he is more conservative than other docs which will not win any prize in the picture catagory. However graft for graft I'd put him up against the best and feel he would hold his own! Im sure that he wouldnt still be a member of the coalition if he had numerous unsatisfied patients. As far as pictures go maybe he doesnt post here as often as we would like to see, but do you really think it's because he's not proud of his work?

originally posted by B-spot. It has been pointed out that Dr. Feller is very active online.....and why not? When you have a good product--a consistent product that is able to provide the transparency necessary to withstand the criticism of laypeople, it is educational AND good business.

If this is in referance to what I had said a few posts back I would like to make it clear that I have no problem w/ the fact that DR Feller is very active here. In fact I find him very knowlegable and interesting to read. I was simply saying that if someone shows interest in your services I feel as though they should take presedense over posting and to not respond to request's for consultations cant be good for business.

[dakota3]

dewayne and dekota, are you two the bobsey twins? When ever one shows up, the other is never far behind and you two say the same exact things.

 

Who's the Bobsey twins? Maybe a bit before my time!

 

Your turn Dewayne, Just Copy and Paste! LOL

[Dewayne]

Who are the Bobsey twins? Must be after my time!