FacelessMan

MAK, I'd second the emotions of... * At "NW5" stage, even 3000 grafts might not give you as much as you'd like (do you have photos?)...depending of course on your hair color and other characteristics. * Numbers don't lie (well, maybe not in this particular context)...for the price you got, you can get far more hair "redesigned" with a clinic that -- no offense whatsoever to Dr. Vogel -- has many, many photos of its patients available on this and other forums, and the reputation to go with them. * With respect to megasessions...the term varies, I suppose, from person to person/doctor to doctor, but in my case, at least, I started at NW...maybe 3V or 4, I don't know exactly...and got 4200 grafts in one day, with Dr. Feller, who has a relatively small clinic; what he did was have his techs come in in shifts, and of course does only one patient per day. My point being, every doctor of course has his or her style and preference, in terms of how many grafts to do in a session, but I don't think that the size of a given clinic necessarily determines the size of the session. * Keep in mind, not to restate the obvious, that each session means another round of shots, another cut into your donor area, another recovery period. To an extent, this is about your personal level of patience, but perhaps a doctor can weigh in here on the multiple-incision aspect. I do remember Dr. Feller posting, somewhere, that he prefers to do an HT in one session, where in the best interests of the patient, for partly that reason. In general...I'd say, at the very least, get some other opinions; talk to patients, talk to Jotronic and Spex and other consultants, who are generous with answering questions about their own questions and about the clinics they represent. If you are looking at Dr. Vogel because you're in/near MD, I'd say, definitely don't let the geography be a factor...this is after all a big decision..and you have the advantage that in NYC you have several excellent options, none of which would require an insane level of expense. I'd be glad to share any tips on travel/hotels you may desire. Good luck in your search! Ask any more questions, anytime... Benjamin

That is a sad story. What makes the one I shared sad as well is that the surgeon related to it is reputed to be, in fact, quite skilled and talented, enough so that such harshness and litigious tactics seem unnecessary...did he really need to squeeze another $4 grand out of some guy? All I can say is...thank you, Dr. Feller, firsthand, for being the doctor and professional you are...and also to the Hassons and Wongs and everyone else who treats their work and their patients with dignity and respect. Not to mention you, Pat, and people here who take time to try to help the rest of us sort this HT decision out... I'd also like to thank Hair Cuttery for sucking enough that I was finally driven to find a competent stylist Benjamin

Here's a scenario for you...and the most I can say about it is that it's a) contextually relevant to this thread and b) factual but anonymous, to protect the person involved. My friend "Spoonman" (cool guy...all his friends are Indians...er, never mind) was researching HT options, and at the start of his search: in other words, he knew little or nothing about them, or who the best doctors were, and had only discovered one of the forums that exist. He was also in a particularly anxious state regarding his hair loss, which, coupled with the above, put him in a less than optimal position to make a sound, informed, level-headed choice. Spoonman schedules a consultation with a particular firm, which we'll call Bad Hair Day. He pays $50 for said consultation. Approximately a week before said consultation, Bad Hair Day tells him that the consultation will be, not with the surgeon, but with an other member of the staff who though not the surgeon Spoonman will use, is nonetheless qualified. Spoonman is slightly pissed, particularly given that he is being charged for this, but is, as mentioned above, eager to get things going and therefore overlooks the matter. The consultation proceeds well enough and the person is pleasant, not a salesman, and seems knowledgeable, and the suggested graft count sounds reasonable (based on the aforementioned lack of knowledge), so Spoonman feels pretty good about it. Shortly thereafter, Spoonman schedules the procedure. Bad Hair Day's policy, he discovers, is to require, not only a deposit, but the entire cost of the procedure, before it is performed. Spoonman ignores the little alarm bells going off in his head -- even the guy who remodeled his bathroom didn't get his fees before the job was done -- but, again, ignores the quiet voice of his gut instinct, because he really really wants to get this done and over with. So he signs a form, agreeing to pay the deposit along with the cost of the procedure, and mails it to Bad Hair Day. When talking the situation over with a friend, who is far more objective, as well as knowledgeable about contracts, his friend strongly echoes Spoonman's suppressed concern: "What, are you nuts? So what if you signed a form, that doesn't even sound legal!" And to make matters worse, Spoonman's financial situation takes a downturn around the same time, making the expenditure not only dubious but risky. And now he is in a bad situation, having hastily and emotionally agreed in writing to pay the amount, which by this point has already been charged, with his permission right there in black and white, to his account electronically. He contacts Bad Hair Day to ask for a refund. He knows that at this point, he will have to lose the deposit, given that he is cancelling within a short time of the procedure, but assumes that this is all he will lose; how can any reputable company, and a medical one, no less, charge someone for serviced they have not provided? Bad Hair Day, however, refuses, claiming that they cannot schedule another patient in time. He protests. Finally, another person from Bad Hair Day sends him a long, legal-ese document that informs him, in essence, that he will receive half of the money he paid, and that he will be liable for damages if he discloses any details of this refund to anyone. He chooses to sign it at this point, thinking that getting back half of his money is better than losing all of it and figuring that hiring a lawyer to fight the matter in court would likely cost him as much as what Bad Hair Day was keeping. So my question is...taking into account the obviously fabricated elements here, and the slightly facetious tone, and acknowledging that signing such a payment form as "Spoonman" did, without running it by more knowledgeable eyes, or for that matter without comparing such payment demands to those of other clinics, was highly unwise, does this sound way out of line? Has anyone here encountered such payment policies? And what about the threat against disclosing the refund terms, what do you think that was about? Could Spoonman have fought this policy and challenged the terms of the payment agreement, even though he had signed it? Neither "Spoonman" nor I are lawyers, so although this sounds highly suspect, if not outright unethical, to me, perhaps there is something I am missing. To be even-handed, I can see Bad Hair Day's position: the cancellation was more or less last-minute, even if it was done for more than capricious reasons, and in theory the clinic had lost a slot that another paying person could otherwise have taken. My problem with this whole thing was that... a) People cancel appointments all the time; that is what deposits are for. "Spoonman" wasn't asking for his deposit back; he was only asking that he not be forced to pay for something he didn't get. b) Why the hardball? Yes, Bad Hair Day had the right to make money for their work, but it was a case of one somewhat scared, naive, and emotionally charged guy up against an intimidating and openly threatening legal document, and for what? See a). CAVEAT FOLLICULI EMPTOR (or something like that)...indeed... Benjamin

Neptune, I hope that my input is welcome here; I have knowledge of neither Dr. Lehr nor of any clinics out West. What I wanted to share, however, was urging you to take the "nearby" from your "top nearby choices." If you're concerned about the added cost of travelling to, say, NYC, or anywhere on the East Coast, or H&W in Canada, then I'd recommend simply factoring in the travel in your overall HT budget, and basing your choice on reputation and quality alone. It's far better with such a long-lasting and permanent decision to wait, if necessary to save $$$ for a more expensive job+plane fare scenario than to take a more local risk...assuming, of course, that you can't find a comparable doctor nearer to you. Forgive the rambling...best wishes to you in your research...! Benjamin

Hi...I'd agree, regarding the inflammation; I too think I had a little shockloss near the scar (very little, and I had to hunt to find it), all of which grew back quickly...but I'd be more concerned about the soreness; health trumps aesthetics... Benjamin

FullHeadofHair, Welcome to the self-improvement journey! FYI, if you're starting from "almost bald," my understanding is that you'd need to be looking at least in the 3000+ range to get decent coverage...other people have already said this, but I thought I'd put it out there. Good growing to you! Benjamin

So...since we're on the topic, when do these sheds normally (if one can generalize) occur? My understanding was that the implanted grafts shed initially, within a month or so. Is this part of the normal HT growth cycle, or is it related to other products (Rogaine, Propecia, etc.)?

Dr. Feller, Thanks for the rapid reply! And, thanks again for the great work...definitely looking forward to future developments. Will talk to you in person in December! Benjamin

Thanks, everyone, for the good words...! One growth/density question, one perhaps best left for Dr. Feller at my 6-month checkup...but I thought I'd put it out there. At this (just-over-5-month) point, there is definite coverage all over the recipient region, and noticeably more "body" overall, as all the hair grows longer/fuller. What I'm seeing, though, is that the temples (or whatever those regions on either side of the forelock are called), while definitely covered with hair, are still very thin. Should I expect notably more density in the next several months, along with thickening? At the risk of jumping the gun, I'm thinking that, having seen such a happy step forward after my "before" photos already, down the road it could be worthwhile to bring the hairline down a little more -- mostly the temples -- and maybe even add more to the top, if that's medically prudent. That said, I have months to go, so patience is a definite virtue here... Benjamin

"Disclaimer:" Dr. Feller hasn't paid me to speak glowingly of him or his work; I'm just a satisfied customer... And I'd agree that pictures speak more loudly than words. I think you'll find a good assortment of comprehensive photos of a variety of doctors' work...Feller, Cooley, Hasson, Wong, et. al. And, while I don't think that advertising and an excellent doctor are mutually exclusive (word of mouth isn't necessarily always enough), false or misleading advertising, and an excellent doctor, definitely don't go together. Benjamin

Hi all...5-month pictures are up on my blog. Feel free to ask any questions! Grow fast, grow well, grow like hell! Benjamin

IrishItalianGirl, Here's $.02 from a recent and satisfied HT patient... * First, no, I don't think you've been scammed; getting a deposit is a standard part of actually scheduling a procedure. I would say that the per-graft price sounds high (certainly higher than Dr. Feller's), but that's not necessarily scamming, just expensive... * ***DON'T*** let geography affect your choice. Even if you go as far as Hasson and Wong in Vancouver -- as others here have said, this is a very personal and very lasting surgical step you're thinking about, so factor in whatever your travel/hotel costs are, against the many years you'll be living with the results! If you're talking NYC or, as I mentioned, Vancouver, take some extra days (before the procedure) and hang out and see the sights... I assume that you're in the MD/DC area...as am I. NYC is only a train or plane ride away, and there are several well-recommended doctors there, including Dr. Feller, whom I'd recommend to my own family. In my case, going to NY added about $600 to my overall procedure cost, which was to me well worth it...once you get into the thousands, another several hundred, if it means getting access to a far better doctor, is incrementally pretty much insignificant. * The picture thing would raise an eyebrow, for me, partly because most doctors seem to offer patients the eye-blackout option when posting or otherwise showcasing their photos. And because I have seen photos of women who have had transplants. I would say emphatically that how willing and able a doctor is to show you the results of his or her work is a valid and important clue... * Are you/have you been actually losing hair, or do you simply have a naturally high hairline? I'd suggest discussing this with any doctor with whom you have a consultation. When Dr. Vogel said your hairline was "too high," what was his standard of comparison? Too high based on your bone structure/features? Too high compared to genetics? Best wishes in your search...this and other boards are excellent resources, I encourage you to make extensive use of them! Regards, Benjamin

Interesting question... Medically -- no comparison, I think it is safe to say. The risks, short and long term, with a HT are infinitesimal (with a competent surgeon) with an HT, as opposed to what I have read about with breast implants...infection, rupture, and for that matter even if they succeed otherwse, I read recently that the most popular ones actually have to be replaced after a certain period of time, requiring invasive surgery yet again. Morally...depends on your frame of reference. I suppose that someone who felt strongly that vanity to any degree was wrong would have an objection to either kind of procedure. Personally, I don't object to either, but I guess you'd say that to me there's a line in the sand between risk and reward -- I don't think it's worth risking one's health or, certainly, life, for a cosmetic improvement. That said, that's my own choice. Were the risks of a HT, for instance, comparable to those associated with female breast implants, or for that matter scalp reductions, I wouldn't have done it. Aesthetically...I think it's a matter of the eye of the beholder (or, er, breast holder...). This may sound irrational, but I would be turned off by implants, just knowing that they were fake...I'd honestly have difficulty getting past the knowledge that they were essentially plastic sacs filled with some liquid. Perhaps many women would feel the same way about a man wearing a rug...I honestly don't know. I'd also feel weird if, say, medical technology allowed us to implant fake hair successfully; somehow the thought of "nanohairs" or whatever in my scalp would kind of freak me out. Which probably sounds odd, because in a sense a HT is not "natural;" yes, it's our own hair and follicles with our own DNA, but it's only where it is because a doctor and staff physically moved it there. The fact that it can be done so skillfully, for me at least, is why I pretty much forget how the hair I see growing, right now, got there! Some more or less random thoughts...and a good question... Benjamin

It works out well that H&W covers part of your travel and the hotel...and I think you have all the expenses covered. You might want to factor in... a) Blood test (this cost me about $150) b) Vicodin (or whatever they suggest) prescription c) FOOD! Once the pain leaves, hunger will rush in... Wishing you well...not having seen any photos, in the most general of terms, it sounds like 4500 grafts should make a noticeable difference for someone in the "NW6" stage...at a minimum, finances and donor area permitting, you can come back for more later if you like! You've made a great choice; I've read consistently effusive praise for the hair artisans at H&W, and Dr. Feller recommended them to me as well. Benjamin

Mark, Glad to hear that your affair of the hair has begun with, er...a flair...! I too have heard many favorable comments about Dr. Cooley, and seen some impressive results along with them. This is indeed the start of the waiting game...I remember feeling the slightest "pang" as the transplanted turf shed, leaving me with bare scalp and that red outline to keep in mind as the site of good things to come... Good growing to you! Benjamin

Interesting...I read another post recently, where the poster saw his original hair growing in thicker and stronger after the HT (and I do not remember whether he described using any meds). Dr. Feller posted as well, and believed that it could in fact be that the transplanted follicles somehow enhanced the blood flow to the area (if I understood him correctly). Or that something else very good and physiological was happening. For me, it seemed as if the re-growing hair on top was fuller and thicker than I remember it being, originally...wishful thinking? I prefer to think not Benjamin

Hey "Cooleyfied", I'm "Fellerized", welcome to the online community...let me introduce you to "Hassonated" and "Wonged "(they're brothers). Oh, that pissed-off looking dude? That's "Bosleyed..." OK, not that funny...to answer your question, I know where you're coming from, because I've wondered the same thing about my own HT; my impression has been that the growth has been something like front hairline --> right hairline fills in --? left hairlione fills in --> right temple fills in --> left temple fills in...etc.. By "temple" I'm referring to the area of the head on either side of the widow's peak; I may be using the wrong word. Anyway, from what I've read here and on other forums, it's entirely normal for growth to happen unevenly; not all the moved follicles are on the same growth cycle. Which is likely why the word on the street is, wait several months before seriously evaluating your results. Good growing to you! Benjamin

John_in_NC: Actually, the most recent shots on my blog (the "progress" shots as well as the ones from my NYC trips) are the best temple point closeups I have, now, but I'll make it a point (no pun intended) to aim my amateur camera-holding hands in that direction next time! Hairbank, Garageland...and for that matter everyone...thanks for the good words! Benjamin

Spex...hey, who is that dude on the left?? Thanks for posting that pre-photo; it brings back memories! I was definitely nervous... It's cool...remarkable...to see that purple line, and see now how that area is hair-filled...! It also shows how the temple points area is so significant...I hadn't realized it, really, until they started growing in more, and longer, recently, and blending in better with the sides. What was odd about the temples is that as far as I could tell, those were the only transplants that didn't seem to shed, at all...at least, not noticeably, or as completely as the rest. Very cool! Benjamin

The lasercomb is a technological wonder...it can transform hundreds of dollars into beams of light in mere seconds... Smart-assitude aside, from what I have read, it has minimal results, at least in proprtion to its cost. For my part, even if there were to appear on the market a "LaserComb 2.0" that were somehow actually able to cause hair regrowth, a la the claims of Rogaine...I'd still rather have done an HT, gone through the recovery and growth ONCE (maybe twice, if I get greedy), and have hair that will remain where the good doctor put it without my performing a daily preservation ritual But that's just my preference... On a side note, MichaellovesNYC -- your results are looking great; I'm sure you're happy. Benjamin

Hi all...4 and 4.5 (ish) month update on my blog, for your blog-reading enjoyment. Benjamin

Bushy -- looking great! Benjamin

Hi, Yep, had that too...though thankfully not that extensively. They stopped appearing at about the two-month point, and before that would only appear here and there. Part of it could have been my wearing a hat quite often (all day at work, whenever I was outside) during the warm summer months. Benjamin

Three-month pictures finally posted; sorry for the delay and hope they are of use! Grow well, everybody... Benjamin

Three-month pictures finally posted; sorry for the delay and hope they are of use! Grow well, everybody... Benjamin