InTheSix

I am planning to book my first HT procedure with H&W (after consulting with the clinic) I realize both Dr Hasson and Dr Wong are great, so this is certainly not meant as a who is a "better" doctor.  Wanted to get peoples perspective as to which doc may be better suited for my specific situation (NW6, FUE, approx 3000 graft to the frontal third.. conservative hairline) ?

Update: after a few more months of pondering, very close to booking an HT. I have narrowed down 3 options (some quite different) and hoping to get some insights

Recap:

Advance hair loss (NW6). I understand how starting with FUT will most likely yield more lifetime grafts. I also understand strips scars can be managed expertly, and even filled with FUE/SMP later on. But I am not comfortable with FUT, and have ruled it out. I like shaving/keeping my back and side short and would like to keep that option. In addition, to mitigate the potential “lost” grafts by not going down FUT route, I am willing to fill the crown very sparingly or not at all. I am fine with a conservative hairline also.

Narrowed down options:

-       H&W: Although, I didn’t initially follow up with them after contacting them previously, I changed my mind, and got the following recommendation from Dr. Wong via James (consultant). Dr Wong initially recommended that for my first procedure, I go with 4000-4500 graft FUT that will address the hairline and half of the head. I refused the FUT option. He then recommends an FUE with 3000 grafts that will address the hairline and frontal 1/3

-       Dr Nadimi: I flew to Chicago to meet her in person. She typically doesnt do above 2000 grafts, but was willing to do a 2500 (2000 scalp + 500 beard) first procedure. She said my donor were of good caliber, and I can come back after 8 to 10 months for follow up procedure

-       HLC: They said they can do a 2 or even 3 day procedure, that will address the hairline and give me ‘light’ coverage over majority of the scalp. This would be done using scalp and beard hair. I realize many will argue that Nadimi/Wong are in a different league (which they probably are), but I am keeping HLC in consideration as I believe they have more BHT experience, and are a better option in Turkey (bit cost effective too.. which is not the main criteria, but still a consideration given my potential multiple future procedures)

Notable clinics that I consulted but didnt add to final list for various reasons that I will skip for now:

Eugenix (I realize this may be the best option, but I cant travel to India, even minus the pandemic) Bruno F, Bisanga, Hattingen, Rahal.

Decision:

I am leaning towards H&W. I realize this may be a slow and steady (and expensive) approach, but hoping I can do a FUE/BHT as my second procedure after a year.

Question:

-       Is this a decent approach?

-       Should I be asking for Hasson, as I read that he is more experienced with FUE ?

Thank you

On 1/4/2021 at 11:43 AM, juanjs84 said:

Thanks @SLA I was not comfortable with the idea initially, but the people in Eugenix were very supportive and it turned to be a good experience. I am still in touch with them and I hope to meet them by the end of the month so the doctors check my progress in person.

I am thinking about getting a haircut, any advice?

do you mind sharing a link to your video bud ?

On 11/24/2020 at 11:57 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Alright guys, 

Christmas came early, I’m currently trying to set up a time and date for our live session. But I want to get some questions from the community. Once I have a concrete time and date I’ll announce it here.

As an industry leader, Konior is widely regarded as one of the very best in all of the world. Dr. Nadimi is proving herself to be a real top notch doctor in her own right, apprenticing under one of the best. I’ll choose the best 5 questions and ask them for you guys. That said, everyone of you guys can join the live session and ask him/her questions in real time.

Thanks for arranging and hosting the session.. it was very informative and good insight into each of the doctors position on different topics.

1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You have to follow our page @thehairtransplantnetwork on Saturday, at the time listed above, you will see our page is live. You just need to click on the circle with our name that says live. 
 

Thanks

On 12/9/2020 at 8:01 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

We have confirmation this Saturday at 1 pm don't miss out

 

Pardon the social media ignorance.. but how does this work? (I have never used instagram) 

After signing up for insta, then what?

On 11/24/2020 at 11:57 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Alright guys, 

Christmas came early, I’m currently trying to set up a time and date for our live session. But I want to get some questions from the community. Once I have a concrete time and date I’ll announce it here.

As an industry leader, Konior is widely regarded as one of the very best in all of the world. Dr. Nadimi is proving herself to be a real top notch doctor in her own right, apprenticing under one of the best. I’ll choose the best 5 questions and ask them for you guys. That said, everyone of you guys can join the live session and ask him/her questions in real time.

What are the main reasons why many clinics (perhaps excluding Eugenix namely), including CHI, dont have a lot of high NW 'before and after' photos on their website:

- Is it simply a case of probability. Statistically speaking there will always be more NW 1 than 2, 2 more than 3, and so on.. But even taking that into consideration, the proportion of high NW photos posted is disproportionate

- Is it because the end result of high NW HT are not aesthetically pleasing i.e not great marketing

- is it a reflection of the types of cases entertained by clinics

- something other than mentioned above or combination of

thanks for putting this together @Melvin-Moderator

2 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

If you are dead set on a FUE mega session with BHT you should book Eugenix. They are by far the clinic with the highest count of successful mega sessions. 

Whats you definition of "mega session" ?.. So far the approach that 'feels right' to me is a) 1st HT: aim somewhere  between 3k-4k grafts to target frontal and midscalp  b) 2nd HT (potentially after a year or so): aim for crown (if possible)..

I like what I see about Eugenix, but have 2 reservations:

a) I dont want to do the whole scalp (if possible) all at once

b) getting paperwork to go to India will be very difficult..

On 11/22/2020 at 1:19 PM, elicochin said:

As a Norwood 6+, I was always leaning towards an FUE. However after years of research, I finally decided to go with FUT for maximum yield and choices it provides in the future. I am currently 4 months post-op with some decent growth. If I had to redo this today, I will still go with FUT first followed by FUT or FUE as a second surgery. I think the FUT scars are much better than what they used to be in the hands of an experienced FUT surgeon. Assuming I get decent results from my FUT, I am currently thinking of going ahead with FUE combining BHT as soon as I can. Link below to my surgery and post-op details with pictures for your reference. Hope this helps; Good luck.

 

 

Thanks for sharing... Good on you to go ahead with the HT and change your strategy based on your research.. Look forward to seeing your progress pics..

On 11/22/2020 at 1:03 PM, deitel130 said:

@InTheSix if you are starting with 3000 grafts perhaps start with only scalp. Did Dr. Jones provide some cases of BHT he performed? If you are sticking within Canada Hasson and Wong also has great FUE cases. There is also Dr. Rahal who performs FUE exclusively however, not sure if he performs BHT.

I am sure Rahal/H&W are good, but dont believe they are big on BHT. So I am not considering them.Dr Jones did share a photo (which seem acceptable) but he didnt sound too big on BHT. 

5 hours ago, Gatsby said:

This is just my humble opinion, but if you are psychologically ruling out FUT, then I really think that Eugenix could be your best option. They have a lot of experience in the use of beard grafts and knowing where to place them to optimize your results. Also no matter who you do choose, ensure that they have an accurate assessment of just how many grafts you have available. There would be nothing worse than rocking up to an overseas clinic and to be told that you have 1,500 less grafts available than what you were told initially. Would you cancel? Still go ahead with the surgery? You need to have a life long plan with hair transplants. If you are realistic with your goals and they reflect what your surgeon can do then you will have a successful surgery. One last thing on finasteride. Even though you state yourself as a Norwood 6, etc, there has been a lot of anecdotal evidence that finasteride can strengthen the donor area (and the transplanted hair) so it's worth a thought in terms of the longevity of your results if you choose to go ahead with surgery. All the best!

Totally agree with everything you wrote. And I am considering taking Finas, however we are currently in the process of IVF (another expensive roller coaster) and all doctors that I have asked have advise to wait for IVF to be over before I jump onto Finas. 

Coming back to your point, what is the best way to avoid being in that situation where you end up in a clinic with totally different possiblities ? 

In my case, the only doctor closest to me (Dr jones is 20 mins away) is not meeting patient in person due to covid. On our call he said the first time i meet him will be for the surgery, asked him if that increases the chance of a surprise, he told me the number of cases  and years of experience he has and said he was confident in his assessment (he suggested a 3000 FUE (all scalp donor) and said a lifetime reserve of maybe 6000 grafts)... i got the feeling that although he has performed BHT, he doestnt do it as often) Dr Nadimi offered an in person meet in Jan (there is $200 charge, which I dont mind) but I will have to fly to US (which i can figure out)... One positive I see is that all recommendations so far have been pretty close to each other.. I am not sure if that is because of assessment accuracy or a template response .

11 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

I've had some communication issues with them. Kinda worried about that if I experience any issues post-surgery.

Like what ?

I do hear their post surgery etiquettes are a bit lacking

Questions for all:

- When you guys do online consultations, how detailed are the recommendations you receive i.e do you get proposed plans drawn out ?  (So far, the only doctor that drew out a proposed plan on my own photo was Dr Bruno F.. I asked HLC for a drawn out plan, but didnt have any luck.. the rest of the consultations, I never asked, they never provided.. so just trying to find out what is the norm ?

- Eugenix: I see and read a lot of positive stuff about them and hopefully its all legit and all power to them. The one reservation I have is that are there a lot of long term Eugenix patient out there, that have shared their stories post several years of their HT with Eugenix ? the reason I ask is because I feel they do stretch the boundaries to help their patient (no saying that a bad thing) but wondering what are the results long term. If I recall correct, in one of their patients youtube vid, I believe he mentioned that the clinic used not just scalp and beard but also chest and sideburn hair... again, wondering how all these fair over long term (5-10 years)..

4 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

That's completely fair.

At least from what I've seen (wish it was a little more), that HLC is an excellent clinic. I'm considering going there myself.

I do worry about clinics that never seem to turn down clients. HLC also copy pastes their on-line consult responses, which I REALLY don't like.

I too am leaning towards them, given that I feel they are good with BHT, something I "have" to rely on.. I spoke twice with their consultant.. and he said they are booking Feb 2021.. told them I was hoping Dec 2020, and he said I will let you know if their was any cancellation.. frankly, there has been no pressure to book dates, and both calls were requested by me. There has been no hard sell tactic at all, almost to a point where I wouldnt mind some lol..

14 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

I was implying that Bisanga was apprehensive about your case, with more realistic expectations. This seemed more ethical, especially since he hadn't seen you in person. I also think it might be telling that the most experienced surgeon you consulted with was also the least thrilled about performing surgery on you.

HLC is baiting you with the best case possibility. Car dealerships do the same thing. I'm not saying that I know if HLC is unethical, but I don't think they're on the same level with Dr. Bisanga.

I dont completely disagree with what you said but I also think the reality is not that linear... In my short experience, I also feel certain Dr/clinic have a certain clientele/density/end result that they want to cater too... especially some of the more recognized and well know clinics I feel tend to become more "selective".. Some can argue its because they are "ethical" (not sayin they arent) but others can equally make the case that they are simply looking for more poster cases... 

I just spoke to a consultant from one of the most highly recommended clinics in the world today (will avoid naming them), and the consultant basically said, our clinic looks to achieve a 'particular density' and I cant get that for you across your entire scalp, so cant help you (the only clinic so far that said sorry no can do)..... but frankly, I am not looking for their 'particular density', I am looking for the density and coverage that works for me...  so you can be the judge if they are 'ethical' clinics or good businesses or a blend of both...(kinda like a boxer who after fighting their way to a championship, only fights mediocre contenders in the hope to hang on to the title.. no doubt they are a good fighter, but certainly not a champion... I feel a lot of "TOP" clinics fall in this buckets)

Conversely their are clinics willing to take challenging cases (i.e high NWs).. and by same reasoning some may call them "unethical" while others will call them brave.. Once again, the truth probably lies in between..

5 hours ago, PizzaWolf said:

Please be careful with clinics that just tell you what you want to hear, especially without having seen you in-person.

I did a "consult" with HLC, and I get the very strong vibe they would do a hair transplant on a car door if it could pay them. That isn't to say the results I've seen from them aren't very good, but how many aesthetically pleasing results have they documented for norwood 6/7's?

Dr Bisanga stretching out his shirt collar and making a loud "gulp" noise during your virtual consult isn't a good sign.

Please see a top surgeon in-person for a consult, and make sure they do a real microscopic examination of your hair.

At least personally speaking I did not get that feeling from either HLC or Dr Bisanga.. Both were measured and conservative in their approach... HLC only gave me a high level idea of what I can expect, but repeatedly said that an in person meeting will confirm things accurately.. Dr Bisanga, was not even willing to give a high level idea after I shared photos.. Only after I did a zoom call with Dr Bisanga, did he provide his opinion, and still said it can change once he meets in person.. Neither HLC nor Bisanga or for that matter any doctor/clinic (you can see the list in my orginal post) pushed for business beyond initial consult..

Although, you do raise a good question. Do people know where I can find some good norwood 6/7 cases out of HLC ? (I know they have a few on their website, but obviously, trying to find some beyond those.. My understanding is that they are shared more frequently on other forums ?)

10 hours ago, James C said:

I think he means just the fact there’s a linear scar back there mentally doesn’t sit right. Especially being a nw6-not having the back up plan to shave your head if a HT fails. That can cause anxiety.

Spot on..

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You can get strip with a #4, even a bad scar would be covered. If you want max coverage and grafts FUT first. 

The physical scar is my secondary concern.. the mental one from having thinking there is a physical one back in the back from head, is the main concern.. Unfortunately I gotta live with myself..

22 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

Here you go.

thanks bud.. I have had this in my back pocket since I got onto this forum a few months back.. thanks for compiling 

17 minutes ago, Zoomster said:

Just curious...what type of dough is 8000 grafts at H&W ...in the neighbourhood of 30K ??

Theyre the Big Daddy of mega FUT for sure ....but that's a big number 

Personally I have refrained from asking cost from most clinics yet, dont want that to skew my final decision.. Of course, $$ is always a consideration, and I will cross that river when I get there... but I would imagine 8000 from H&W can not be cheap (aka super expensive)

2 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@SLA I fully agree with @Melvin-Moderator and urge you to try to get a 8000 graft surgery with Hasson&Wong thus saving your FUE & BHT donor area for any future intervention.

If you are dead set on FUE then go for a 8000 grafts FUE+BHT megas session at Eugenix but that might depleat your donor and then - no more FUE or FUT for you! 

Can I ask why you recommend a mega 8000 FUE+BHT ?.. isnt it prudent to do it in steps, in case the 1st procedure have some drastic shock loss or other set backs... Thats actually one thing that puts me a little off about Eugenix, since they (from what I see) go for mega sessions... again, interested what the medical reason behind mega sessions is ?

5 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

I would forget about FUE+BHT and book a mega session FUT with either H&W of Hattingen Clinic Dr. Muresanu. You will need 8000 grafts and both these clinics can handle 8000 grafts in just one surgery if you chose FUT.

You will have more remaining donor area available for future FUE surgeries if you start by depleating your FUT donor area like I did.

Although I dont refute the efficacy of what you are saying (frankly, I havent researched on the topic to form an opinion) I am not personally open to FUT (even if that is based on incomplete info).... If the choice was between FUE+BHT that would not cover crown vs FUT, I will choose the former.. if the choice was to not do an HT altogether vs FUT (this one will be much more difficult to swallow, but I will still choose no HT).... Maybe I will evolve my decision, but thats where I stand for now..

Again, all power to the folks who go down the FUT  route first, just not my cup of tea ....... for now

1 hour ago, SLA said:

As you have seen, Eugenix produces unbelievable results with FUE+BHT filling entire heads on those who have been turned away by other clinics.

Given the evidence presented on the forum, in your situation, I would strongly consider opting for them if FUE is your choice.

I have spoken with Abhinay, their representative and it didn't seem as if it was a year wait, more like a few months. Our world situation may change quickly with Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines.

Really like to go there, but as I mentioned, I wouldnt be able to due to paper work (visa)

1 hour ago, SLA said:

 Portugal gives good mainstream advice, however, I am so confused by the FUT 1st debate in expanding the # of lifetime grafts. While this seems to be the most popular opinion from reputable HT docs, there are other well known HT docs (Cole, Vories, Bhatti, Bansal) that say just the opposite with some even bold enough to say that you can get more lifetime hairs with FUE since you don't need extra hairs to cover an FUT scar, how some hairs are transected with cutting the strip and how some of the grafts in the strip are unusable since they are not in the right phase of growth.

One might be skeptical being that these are FUE only practitioners, however, of the 4 I mentioned, 3 that I know of gave up their FUT practice to focus on FUE. 

I am not disputing what Portugal is saying at all, but rather expressing how I, myself am so confused by the difference in opinions.

....so perplexing!

 

In my conversation with all the doctors (who I realize are mostly FUE clinics) the only time FUT came up was in my conversation with Dr Nadimi... She said she performs both and will leave the decision to me which one I prefer.. She did not propose one over the other...

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I will ask you this, does hair length matter to you? If the answer is no, definitely go FUT first. FUE procedures can still be done. FUT and FUE are not mutually exclusive. You will by far get more hair doing FUT first. My choice for mega sessions would be Hasson and Wong. Afterward, you can still get FUE+BHT. 
 

I always keep my sides and back short (3, 4)... as it offers a better balance

Given the above (H&W and Eugenix out), what is everyone's thoughts on HLC... ?

Hi Everyone.

This is my very first post on the forum. Like many, I have been quietly reading, learning and greatly benefiting from this great collaboration of opinion, ideas and suggestions. I have been contemplating getting an HT for a few years on and off, but only recently have begun to seriously contemplate going ahead with it. Below is quick background of my hairloss and where I stand currently.(Hoping I can get suggestions from the community here to help select a good Doc)

Background:

-       I am currently 39 years old.

-       I first started noticing some thinning in my crown when I was 24 years old. Although I still had a ton of hair back then (I remember my hair were so thick and dense, that I once got turned away from a barber saying that I should go to a women’s salon to get a hair cut) I first met a doctor in Toronto (Cam Simmons) when I was about 28 years old. At that time, he told me I was an excellent candidate for an HT and provided some options. I decided to not go ahead with an HT and only started using Minox

-       Minox grew hair for me in the first year and then it just didnt do anything (I realize that not growing hair, doesnt mean it not working, as it may be stopping further loss). I continued to use Minox for about 4 to 5 years, and then simply stopped. I did not and have not taking any other medication beyond Minox (although in hindsight, and after reading comments here, I feel I should have given Finas a try) But alas, hindsight is 20/20

-       When I was 37, I met with an Hasson and Wong consultant in Toronto, who simply said that I was a good candidate for HT and asked when I would like to arrange a surgery. Frankly, I had not done much research at that time and still wasnt ready for an HT, so never followed up.

-       Fast forward to now, I have an extensive bald area and would be a NW 6/7 (pretty much no hair on top). I would say that my balding has been fairly stabilized over the last 2 or 3 years (no meds). Even though there isnt a huge amount to lose anymore, I know it can get worse over time.

-       Given that I have been WFH since Covid started, it has given me an extra incentive to get an HT done now, as I rather recuperate at home, then going into an office (I work in a corporate environment, and unlike some of the many brave folks here, would rather not make my HT story too obvious at work)

-       To this effect, over the last 6 to 8 weeks, I have narrowed down a selection of doctors and reach out for evaluation. Below I will share what I have heard from each:

Expectation:

I realize I have an extensive case of hair loss, hence I am open to have realistic expectation (assuming that I can even be considered a candidate for HT). In terms of expectation, below is what I expect, starting from the :”very least” to the “very most”:

-       Not be completely bald

-       If I can get more, I would like to aim for a hairline and midscalp that can frame the face somwhat. I am ok to aim for a mature hairline, and I am fine with the density can not be too high

-       If I can get more, next it will be good to have some minimum coverage in the crown, which can allow me to use fibers

-       If I can get more, it would be nice to have a more denser crown (I know this is now absolute wishful thinking)

-       I also realized that I will almost certainly rely on BHT, which I am open to

I have seen some phenomenal NW 6/7 transformations here ( @Zoomster,  @Portugal25, etc) and I totally realize those are exception to the norm, as so many other factors are involved (doner, hair quality, head size, etc).. Hence I dont expect phenomenal transformation (how great would that be) but willing to have realistic expectations:

Below are the Dr/Clinics I have approached:

-       HLC: (I am really inclined to go with them).. they said they can perform an HT for me. They can give me a new hairline that will cover the face and use body and scalp hair for the rest of the head for light coverage. The communication is all through consultants and not directly with a doctor. I spoke over phone with their consultant Engin, and he basically said that we can aim to do 2 days of surgery with about 2000 graft each day. The first HT will aim to do hairline and midscalp and then I can come back after 6/12 months, for a 2^nd procedure for the crown area. I asked if he can send pictures of the proposed plan using one of my photos, but he said they dont do this. He also said that my ‘final’ plan will only truly be confirmed when I meet the doctors in person. I asked for a december 2020 date, but currently they are booking Feb 2021

-       Eugenix: I am really impressed from what I see from this clinic and what I read on the forum. I am waiting for an assessment from them. However, unfortunately, due to travel reason, I will almost certainly not be able to travel to India. But again, their results seem very impressive, and I feel for a high NW, they might be one of the best

-       Dr Bruno Ferreira: As some of you have pointed out here, his was the most detailed and personal assessment (very impressive).  Below is what he suggested:

1. Start medication: ( He thinks I am too advanced to expect too much improvement. Not taking it does lower his expectations in terms of long term results, but not much. The goal is to get stabilization and some improvement in the lateral humps if possible. He really doesn't expect it impacting beard hair)
2. First surgery: 2500+ grafts (Front and temporal peaks)
3. Donor area recovery: 5 months
4. Second surgery: 2500+ grafts (midscalp)
5. Evaluate possibility of more surgery
6. He thinks my best doner is ocipital

-       Dr Konior/Nadimi: I got a reply from Nadimi. She said that my donor density seems average, but my hair quality looks good. She recommended 2 procedures. In the 1^st procedure “2000 grafts to produce a good frontal/midscalp restoration although a session of 2500 grafts would be preferred for achieving good density (she said we may use more grafts, but that can only be confirmed in person). Then if my donor still allows, I can come back for a 2^nd procedure to do the crown. She too thinks Finas can have only minimum improvment, not a lot. She is currently booking surgery into Spring 2021. I didnt ask for Dr Konior availability

-       Dr Bisanga: Clearly the most hesitant of all evaluations. At first, they would not give an assessment and said I have to do an in person. I almost did meet the doctor in New Jersey, but his schedule didnt allow. Then he finally agreed to do a virtual session. In the session he said he can probably do hairline and midscalp and probably leave the crown empty (but depends on donor after the 1^st procedure)

-       Dr Robert Jones (Toronto): Recommended a 3000 graft FUE. And then a future surgery if possible. He said he estimates, I might have around 6000 graft in total. Although he said he has performed BHT, I didnt feel like he was too big on it, and his recommendation above does not include BHT. Some of the photos he shared as possible outcome, were quite acceptable.

 Already ruled out:

-       Dr Pekiner: I was tempted to reach out to this Dr also, but after reading about some aborted HT, I decided not to. (No offence to any of his admirers, just a personal opinion)

-       Asmed: (I reached out to them during the start of my search, but at this point, I have ruled them out irrespective of their recommendation, which I am sharing for context) They provided a rough drawing, which suggested covering the hairline and midscalp with approx 3500-4000 graft. They said they dont do BHT.

-       Dr Keser: Said he cant cover the entire head, but suggested I reach out to BHT clinics as he feels they can help me (I appreciated the honesty and suggestion)

Question for everyone:

-       I am certain I will have to leverage BHT. Hence I am looking for a Dr/Clinic that is really good with BHT. Has my list above accommodated all good options for BHT, or am I missing someone ?

-       What is your overall suggestion of which Dr/Clinic I should focus on ?

-       I am leaning towards the following plan of action (I am only considering FUE): 1^stHT (aim for hairline and midscalp), 2^ndHT (maybe after 1 to 2 years) aim for some improvement to crown (if possible).... if I have anything left in the donor bank, I can re-evaluate in 4 to 5 years (hopefully they are cloning hair then).. What do you think of this plan of action ?

Thank you all in advance.