scar5

I don't know anything other than just what I just looked up online.. ..and guess what? Slits too small/narrow FUs purchased too low on the unit with forceps and rammed in. Result: hooked graft, inflammation, swelling, out pops the hooked graft! Some docs make wider slits for FUE for this very reason. FUE implanter pen avoids this problem.

The key is that you leave yourself an exit strategy. It doesn't matter if your strip scar is fine, if you buy one, and then buzz or shave you will look like an insecure person. You will have to answer for it, and your answer will never be good enough. Trust me. Buzzing or shaving is the one and only way a balding guy can get 'self-respect'. (Self-respect and 'self-respect' are different beasts, and its the latter that counts) Think carefully about this. Don't let the rep or doc decide for you, and remember FUE can be bought cheaper if you look in the right places.

I want to retract some of the comments I made from my own quote below. Sorry to hog the flow, so to speak, but some of it is clearly reactionary and boorish. I was pretty dissed at Blake for blowing smoke at us, IMO, with figures about FUE economics. The key economic stat is this, It takes a strip doc about 40 minutes (max) to pull out 4000 grafts in a strip. The same doctor needs two to three days to pull out the same through FUE. The rest of FUE is the same as strip from the doc's end, give or take. The tech picture is completely different, but it is the doc that is the golden goose and it is the docs' time and energy that is front and center. I apologize for the childish, insulting and butt hurt tone of the rest and I don't recommend everyone fly to Turkey because I don't know about Turkey. On this board there are plenty of members who who about it. My Last HT My last FUE was a tech driven, rotary job and the results were poor. I'm not completely sure about how much of the result was caused by the techs, the tools, the protocol or the doc himself,because the docs placement of slits was atrocious, tardy and completely unacceptable. My gut feeling is that he didn't give a damn . He was one of the most experienced HT docs in the world. I am one of the most experienced HT recipients in the world. Guess we are both jaded. Research and think about current circumstances, and that means laws and the economic reality that the clinic is compelled to work within first, then look at the choices they are making within that reality, and then the spin they use to justify it. Finally, don't rely on 'legends' or reputation. Things can change.

BaldKen, My experience is that SMP looks poor at certain lengths, but once you grow through the bad zone, it is fine. But my case maybe different. My SMP is light. My 'dots' are not really visible, even when buzzed. It is just a vague grey hue. If you put some magnification on, you can see distinct dots. I don't know whether this is ideal or not, but it means I am fine as long as I grow through the grade 2 and 3 length. I agree about the scar stuff. I have pounded my strip scars with various SMP over the years (as well as lasered it) in a bid not match the scars and patches of it are blueish. But it is not a deal killer. It is the indented nature of strip scars and the changing plane of skin where the scars join that screw me. I don't mind hairthere and I like his comments. Of course he is running a business and if he couldn't come here and do it, there would be no forum and I'd have to find something useful to do in my life. :confused:

Exactly! This is the one thing we must get into our balding heads!! If you take only one thing from your research, take this!! Bless Dr. Vories. What punch does he use? If it's all manual, I'm sorry to say, it won't be long before he either gets fed up or injured. I expect to an admission similar to Blake's, when all of a sudden, he begins to doubt FUE! People are getting wiser.

Hairthere, You could have PM'd him. You are advertising. Fair play to you and good luck with your business! I am excited for you, and I hope one day, that I can make my own business too.

Bilbo, Just ignoring Hairthere's spam for a minute. You know what. I rarely post pics. My profile is empty, and sometimes I wonder, why shouldn't I just give it all away. (And in a way, I already have anyway) On this very forum there was a guy who persistently PM'd me for details about names and clinics. I made it extremely clear that he was very lucky to get my news and he should respect my views about maintaining privacy on these forums. NOt dissing on testimonies, but once you show your colors, you have only two choices IMO, to say 'Totally awesome experience' or the opposite. Anyway, cut a long story short, this guy kept saying, "we are all in the same boat" I just need to know a and b. It didn't take him long to shit all over me. In another forum, I popped up to comment once, and he immediately replied on teh open forum , I "I know you went to Dr so and so, etc" I was being real, offering real advice based on real experience, and that little c&'K sucker who I helped, just blew me out. That is the way it goes. So I am shy.

- temp is constantly changing and very fragile. It is safe though. You could try once and check, but.. - permanent tone base gives you something to plan the ht with or try out different hair lengths - I'm not advocating either particularly because SMP is still a dodgy industry imo- but it has helped me - my results are far from perfect. Don't like hairline, blotches, silver hue. - do like how it has blended areas, covered pink and white scarring due to extraction holes of badly angled micro grafts. - love what does for my buzzed head, but scarring and poor hairline mean I grow at present, and look better. Still I wish I could buzz it completely one day but scars are not smooth and must say the longer look works well for people's perceptions of me. I was positively ugly shaved, but liked it somehow. (Possibly a mental hangout?) - I appreciatte you wanna see pics. Sorry but I'm not feeling like much of that. You are perfectly right to doubt me!! - if you feel doubtful, then perhaps do the temp first, but don't get hooked in by them.

Bald Ken How so? As long as he has not got a shiney bald patch with no hair on it whatsoever. I grow my hair as long as I like and SMP still provides an enormous benefit. Unless you mean for the purposes of the transplant itself. To the OP I didn't blow up your pics but judging from the thumbnails I'd say you could have long hair, with SMP but it is essential to have some hair. You can transplant over the SMP and the transplanted follicles are unaffected, however transplanting on a fresh SMP hairline isn't recommended because the ink can move according to my sources and personal experience. Another reason to wait is to let the SMP tone settle so that the HT doc(hopefully) can make a better call on the required density. Also, as I always say, keep an exit strategy in mind. With a good permanent but soft SMP tone you might just end up buzzing it down one day in the future. As for the blue stuff, yes, a grayish hue is noticeable under certain light conditions but it is also possible to be too picky. Your overall perceived hairtone will change slightly too. By all means consider temp, but it won't do you much and will be tricky to plan an HT over.

You are far from square zero; (Although there is a great psuedo-punk song called, 'Square One Here I Come' by The Hives which could have it's lyrics adapted to the poor HT guy who gives his savings and future dreams to wealthy HT docs, without missing a beat) IMO You get on meds, take great pics, send 'em to Turkey or India, get SMP, then start filling up your crown with FUE and beard, cut your hair the right way.

I'll let Ko respond, but Bisanga and Lorenzo are extremely expensive FUE compared to the options you now have in India and Turkey. Also be aware, Bisanga may try, rather his reps may try, to suggest strip. But really, in your situation, money should not screw up the basic rubric you need to stick with. Recognize the situation for what it is, if you don't have enough money then accept it, but don't just give what little money you have to a strip clinic only to cause further future complications. You saw Rahal, you got a typical front loaded North American strip job and now you are dealing with the consequences. But you have choices. Use them.

Sorry about the long winded answer, too much coffee...I am particularly aware of your type of problem and the dilemmas, but not so sure about the perfect answer. Please get this clear. FUE is cheaper than strip. You are worried about the scar, so why give your money to North American strip docs just because the laws and economics prevent THEM from doing FUE at your budget? Just get your ass on a plane...OK, planes are expensive, but it is not an excuse to get strip. There may be valid reasons to get strip, even so, but be brutally frank with yourself. Yes, I've done SMP, and it is good if you have some hair. If you have a strip scar, you must have hair, so get yourself some!

Starr, You are limiting yourself in your way of thinking. About Rahal, and all the other strip docs who are smart and technically good, remember, they got you in this situation. That said, I think Can't Decide is almost home (and good luck to him) , but I think, crucially, he has/had more and better hair in the donor than you. You are in a similar situation to the one I found myself in in the late 90s. I will tell you how I handled it - and I tried lots of things. Same: 1) stellar hair line, big shock of hair I could comb back. 2) not taking meds because of concern with sides. 3) a thinning crown 4) strip scar The differences: 1) My scars were much worse. My crown was much, much better. Scar(s) Me: one ear-to-ear smiley (fair) + two half strips, above and below opposing sides of the smiley, one of these poor and wide, the other excellent and thin. All scars same doc You: one 'excellent' thin strip scar Crown : Me: Obviously thinning, and you could put a penny down there and not touch any hair. Minaturized zone spread about and inch, inch and half all around. You: Your crown is pretty much gone. It is a big area and more concerningly, it seems to have really eroded deep down into donor zone on the right side. But essentially, it is the same problem. We both paid the price for getting a front loaded strip job. (I won't tell you how wrong I think this approach is!!, you know that, let's just move on) First, there is no way in the world your crown will close with 1500 follicles, so you are right in assuming you'll have to combine permanent SMP (forget about temporary, you'll be going crazy with the 'floor' constantly disappearing). You need the SMP to form the base, then texture it with a lattice of good quality head hair, fed by medications, augmented by beard hair to give yourself a fighting chance. But what is the best way to get there? That is the question. You also need an exit strategy, something to give you hope that, if it all goes south, you can buzz it down. You are lucky you have a thin scar, but don't assume it will be excellent next time, and even if it is, that won't get you out of dodge. Your exit strategy would include hair and ink in the scar. Then you would wear a piece for your acting career and just be the cool guy with a buzz on the street. So what, no big deal. That is dignified. I see two tracks One 1) Meds 2) SMP 3) FUE All done in three years Piece(s) for the acting roles, fauxhawk (lowish) buzz for the street. Adjustment options and prognosis: Good and solid going forward without that beautiful front on look you are now accustomed too. Best option if doubtful about meds. Looks Unbalanced? - take out a small number of front grafts and put them in the crown. Expect a 50% casualty rate. Expect scarring as you move away from the hairline. Fill it with SMP. At hairline itslef, scarring is better, but aesthetically worse. Remember illusion of density at buzz level. Check out Cant decide's pre-op two pics Two 1) Meds 2) Strip 3) FUE 4) SMP All done in at least five years. Smaller Piece for the acting roles, fauxhawk (bigger, higher) and 'products' for the street. Adjustment options and prognosis: I think you are married to comb-overs and products as you continue to lose hair. If meds start to fail, it will be grim, but having said that, if you have good self-esteem and inner congruence, you'll be more handsome than in option one. (Hopefully it won't rain) I'd go track one, but I'm biased A note about hair greed and the HT business I don't want you to give any more of your money to Rahal or any strip doctor, but if you can't resist another whack at 'big hair' you could strip again, after the FUE. Both stripping first or last has benefits. Don't listen to any of their nonsense about strip being more difficult after FUE. They will still take your money. Let THEM worry about it. Your donor is in bad shape, so make sure you medicate first. My experience These days I am not good, but far from a disaster. I have two choices. Fauxhawk or buzz. Believe you me. I am so, so much better than I was ten years ago, but it was a long road back. My experiences with trying to shift a front loaded HT to the back were like this. I had a linear front excision, which basically removed 60% of my hairline, and had the hair redistributed further back. Scarring was excellent, result was ugly and poor. Poor clinic in poor HT environment, (seller's market) Not recommended. I had large misangled mini and micro grafts punched out and replanted from zones between the temples and the crown. Scarring was evident, many of the hairs were butchered in the extraction. Doctors wouldn't plant near the extracted zones. Excellent well rated doctors Result poor. Empty red and white scarred zones, difficult to cover. Now I would not recommend this except, for two crucial differences you and I have. I wanted the hair re-planted nearby, but flat and they just wouldn't do it. You don't want that. You want yours put miles away, so it could work. And regarding scarring. That is where SMP comes in. It has helped a lot, although is far from perfect. I had one of my strip scars opened up again - having had it already filled with body hair, to get more hair to fill the mid region, and plant in front of the blunt line left by the linear excision. Not recommended. The tricophytic scar, done by a AAA rated doc, was poor. It was made worse. Definitely not worth it for me. Should have just FUE'd around the scar. oh....AND CRUCIALLY I WENT ON FIN< FINALLY!! in 2006

Sanchoy I know it is easy to say and hard to do, but I think you will have to wait it out. If you feel embarrassment you could wear a hat. If it so bad that it needs laser, you'll still have to wait...how long?- check this with someone who knows and cross-check their answer. If you are like me you will have notices several dark blotchy areas as well oversized dots that 'pop' out when you look closely. In my case these popped out dots entirely disappeared. I put them down to residual ink left in the epidermis as the needle was pulled out. Anyway, no problem at all after about 6 weeks. The darker blotches were simply too much ink, or so I gather after my discussion with the Shapiro temp SMP. (Mine is not temporary, although it has faded considerably. It really faded by almost 50% after 4-6 weeks and then has started to fade over time as well. I wanted it to fade a little too although I'm glad I didn't get temp SMP or else I would be back to square one already. So steady as she goes there. Take plenty of pics with different cameras phones etc. (they can drastically reflect different tones) After 4-6 weeks re-asses. All the best. Oh..and Hairthere Sorry about the harsh tone of that reply a few posts back. No need for that and wisely ignored. .

Pretty good value when you think about it. Ear-to-ear scars are always usually invisible as you continue to bald.

Nice, What a load of bullshit, One week, optimal??? lol And then you get one year of glory? No color change? You have defeated science? There is only one way forward..itis the Nobel Prize.

The OP was about techs performing hair transplants. Techs are anonymous. They have to be, for the benefit of the HT industry. I used to think they wished they were well known, after all, they have egos, don't they? But a smart tech is a smart tech and a tech that knows his/her secrets. They fly in to clinics as a mobile work force and part of the deal is discreteness. They know all the stories, all the doctors, all the scandals and they know which way their bread is buttered. They know state laws, law suits, dodgy DAs etc.. And they 'aint gonna spill the beans on these web sites. So are techs bad, or as bad as the doctors? I think it is compulsory reading for anyone interested in HT clinics to read the Long Island Clinic's trial of 2000. (just google, 'A city sanitation worker performs surgery on hundreds of men') (that is HTs) It is an unfortunate situation that reflects terribly on the NY docs, but actually, in reality, it might not be that bad considering that we happily fly to Turkey nowadays for a tech transplant rather than get talked into strip. Consider it in the light of ISHRS's statement on tech driven HTs. Consider, Blake's comments. Consider Dr. Feller's comments in 2013, whom Blake will work with soon. (Dr. Feller points out his investigations into the legal status of techs in NY, way back in '02, and tells us how he confirmed how illegal it was for techs in New York to cut the skin. Yet the above case will confirm that the New York Department of Education's medical Board knew all about tech skin cutting for years without acting in the late 90s. That is, if you believe the 'Daily Mail'. It reveals a lot about the industry, state laws and especially it reveals how the HT industry, (take a bow reps) has been negotiating the icebergs of the legal technicalities for decades. It is not a new sudden phenomena courtesy of Turkey or Neograft.

If you have white/grey/silver coming through perm SMP will highlight those tones, on the other hand, it works well in disguising the scars. Good luck with the SMP. I'm sure it will help. I get the idea about doing temp to avoid bleeding damage but I think ultimately, you'll need something more permanent - although the silvery hue is inevitable as it is usually monochrome. Thinking of a 2 year temporary, you get the benefit of a color but those colors change, which thankfully is cancelled out by the temporary nature of it. But how much value is it? Call 100% the ultimate result for color blend of SMP,scalp, hair and scar into seamless veneer to the eye at say, one inch of hair length. Think of a 24 month fade curve where the SMP guy/gal gets it perfect on the first try - or subsequently at a 'touch up 3-4 weeks later. Your first 6-8 weeks it is too strong Then there is a small patch of time ( a few months at most) where you would get ideal cover. Pretty soon the decline must set in, in order to fade in two years. Anyway, you pay a lot for a few months of cover. Perhaps that crucially, is just enough time to figure that SMP works for you? Remember your original idea was to do temp to 'test' the waters. But temp SMP and perm SMP are not the same so it is not a test. You might just find yourself paying for more and more temp and this is the business model the temp operators work on I suspect. Perhaps you can get a test patch with a permanent SMP provider, although that will cost you too. Good luck.

Is that your black hair？I think it will help immensely. My hair is a mixture of white and brown and the grey/blue hue of SMP still helps me, but if your hair isn't brown, then I think it will help. I c no point in temporary as u won't be able to judge as your hair changes and the SMP constantly changes under it. Be aware that putting SMP over recently transplanted hair is not recommended at the hairline because the ink runs in the skin more, perhaps it is not as important for a scar.

Congratulations Blake. Dr. Feller is one of those docs (was one?) willing to risk discuss things down here in the animal enclosure with us miscreants. And he was a reasonably early FUE adapter in the US too. He made some very frank remarks about HT and FUE that impressed me at a time few would discuss it. I certainly disagree with the 'FUE-is-for-small' jobs. But it begs the question. Now that you are in New York, and now that larger and larger FUE jobs are the norm (except in the states where laws and economics don't allow it) perhaps you could attempt to answer this question. In 2015, in the state of New York, what is the legal status of technicians performing extractions with some thing like the 'Feller punch', the 'Harris punch' or any other hand held mechanical or manual extraction tool other than the Neograft (or its predecessor) ? (I am not referring to ARTAS or robotic stuff)?

Rooney's doing very well, judging by the 'Daily Mail' and that channel 4 program , called 'Embarrassing bodies' Daily Mail from 2013, England striker, 27, has new bald patches following first operation

No, I expressly forbid you to be happy. I think you are sort of in the category I was suggesting. I went into the HT world with nothing but youth (which I thought was being prematurely stolen from me)hope and fear, on the other hand were older, married, a father, a job. A more settled man, and yes, you are entitled to your happiness. And I think your hair looks pretty good too. As far as being duped, I think people get strip because the doc does it routinely and that is about all.

No, I expressly forbid you to be happy. I think are sort of in the category I was suggesting. I went into the HT world with nothing but youth (which I thought was being prematurely stolen from me)hope and fear, on the other hand were older, married, a father, a job. A more settled man, and yes, you are entitled to your happiness. And I think your hair looks pretty good too. As far as being duped, I think people get strip because the doc does it routinely and that is about all.

I bet that guy is in an infinitely better position than he would be with a strip scar. However, I suspect he has strip scars too. Otherwise, he could buzz it off. If he has a moth eaten look, he has to go shorter. If at zero he still looks pock marked, he can SMP into the dots and he will be OK. This is a warning for those who follow American docs spin about 'strip' first and then FUE to 'Max Out' I have been terribly overharvested with FUE - and budget FUE, drills, techs etc. but it is only the strip scar(s) that are a giveaway. I don't condone overharvesting, but I think a NW5 / 6 shouldn't get talked into a scar. Having said that, I've seen NW5 and 6s get dramatic results from strip. Massive change. Huge shock of hair from the front, big smile on their face, perhaps they genuinely don't care about the crown? These are older guys (40s +) Perhaps they are already mature and confident individuals in their own right, with kids, careers etc., and perhaps they really don't give a damn. BUt if so, why get the HT?