scar5

IMO, as a white boy, the social value goes like this 1. NW1 with age appropriate contemporary fashion sense hair style 2. NW2 with age appropriate contemporary fashion sense hair style 3. Shaved head with NW1/2 4. Shaved head with NW3-7 5. Buzzed head with NW1/2 6. Buzzed head with NW3-7 7. Receded hair line combed back without crown baldness 17. Receded hair line with balding crown 77. Bald top, thick sides 7,770,700 Perfect hair with public knowledge that you had hair transplant

If you are NW5/6, why do you want a strip scar? Do you realize that FUT does not stand for Follicular Unit Transplant on these forums, it means (in industry sleeze language) 'STRIP TRANSPLANT'? So you want a strip job? Then yeah, just go to the big famous strip joints. Remember that strip doctors have a different philosophy about HT design. They tend to ignore the crown and plant densely at the front.

They are recommended because they agree to pay the fee to HTN. Don't expect too much.

SMP is full of rouges. This outfit no different. Stolen pictures on their website. Misleading claims. Recently changed name to 'Revive'. Seems to be linked with Bangkok Hair Clinic which has branches elsewhere, which gives them a link to a real doctor. They probably aren't much worse than most, but how do you get a touch up if you are not in the area?

For goodness sake! Don't bash FUE for scarring. This is poor extraction protocol. The doc was frightened by the miniature state of the 'rump' hair and thus went 'down' like a pilot flies under turbulence. Decision probably made in a fraction of a second. Techs/doc then had to extract from a constricted zone, under time pressure and economic pressure (get 'x' no. of grafts)..result, patchy The key take-away from this is that docs act impulsively and quickly because time is money! This is not scar tissue. This is not a reason to change your mind and get a strip scar! The clinic booked a patient - they expected 24 bananas. They got 12, and six were sickly. The local king said, peel 'em anyway, but just pick off the bottom ones.

Luckily, I am an expert.lol Seriously, understandable and natural to share this stuff with your significant other but remember, Vanity for men is uncool. Having said that, I think you can use the HT as a bargaining chip. It's like a confession, a sacrifice. But it is a gamble. You are burning a valuable card but just once or twice, maybe OK, even bonding. But when you have to book HT operation number 3 and 4, because Dr. Ear-to-ear Scar leaves you with no option, it is time to remember the mutual friend of you and your wife's. The guy who 'bravely' shaved it all off because he 'Didn't give a ....', See what I mean?

Not much knowledge, but I would suggest that any skin puntures should be hidden from the sun for a while - 2-4 weeks. There will be-should be- significant change after 4-5 weeks, as the surface ink dissapears and the deeper ink tales a more opaque tone. You might notice some blueish/silverish areas or blotches. Some will go away, some are an indication of the unevenes of SMP and might stay. Lets say they add character to your SMP.

This respectfully is BS. It doesn't matter what WE think...! We know getting an HT takes balls, but that counts for nothing, worse, it reeks of desperation. And if she runs, itd not her fault. She isnt bad. Men are programmed and women are programmed. We can't do anything about it.

Why tell her unless you have to? Every relationship coach is gonna say the same thing, 'Don't give a f&%k what other people think of you" By doing a HT you are showing weakness. You are showing neediness. You can still turn that into an advantage if you play it the right way, but you have to really ready for the arrows and curve balls. I have won over girls because I have admitted I had an HT, but only because the guys in the immediate area were insecure and gobsmacked. All it would have taken, would have been for some shaved guy to say, 'I think, you should accept baldness bla bla bla' and he would have immediately assumed the alpha male role. Sometimes, there is not that kinda guy around. If you are in love, wanna get married, are funny and think you can play the joke through all the scenarios that might come your way, go ahead. If you wanna buy her love with humility and submission, go ahead, you could still win. If you are on the border, look for ways to bullshit your way through it. IMO

If creatine works in changing muscle mass and definition it works through changes to the hormone mix. Hormones regulate muscle growth, fat accumulation etc. There is no question that test levels rise after workouts, so there is one change. Creatine intake has been scientifically proven to change CONVERSION of test to DHT too. The South African Rugby Study Results: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01). Conclusions: Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition.

I want to continue discussing the (nominal) theme of the recently shut down tread about FUE pricing, laws, ethics and a multitude of other useful things that help our understandings mature. Unfortunately the thread stuck an iceberg and became tussle between the interests of the forum owners and the advocates of a particular clinic who felt slighted and unfairly shut down. I don't particularly care about names, clinics, testimonies etc., - all docs are perfectly wonderful people as far as i am concerned. I do care about the realities docs and clinics work within, industry momentum, innovation, changing consumer awareness etc. i want to copy an paste a comment by a poster named Delancey, that was posted in as the thread was in its death throes. ...............Delancey's bit................................................................................................................... Firstly, marketing expenses are just as expensive in Western Europe as in the U.S.. In fact, many clinics advertise online; therefore, the expenses are exactly the same. Secondly, the cost of labor in Western Europe is very high. Have you ever lived in Sweden or in Norway? I highly doubt that techs in the U.S. are earning more than in Belgium, Sweden or Denmark. Thirdly, malpractice insurance is a fixed and variable expense that is held in case a contingency occurs. It's smart business and surely it is just a fraction of the total earnings from 10 dollars per graft that some FUE surgeons are charging in the U.S.. I've lived in 5 countries and I can assure you that running a business in the U.S. is not more expensive than in Europe. Quite the opposite, in fact. European countries can be very expensive, depending on the country. Finally, I will note that supply and demand will determine what U.S. surgeons can and will charge, but I surely couldn't afford to pay $80,000 for two FUE surgeries. Most people can't! Hence the large supply of FUT in the U.S.. .....................end of Delancey's bit...................................... This is what it is all about. Will Costs Come Down? The only way FUE pricing will come down is with tech extraction. Artas, Neograft may help, but not to anything like the extent. What About in America Where Strip Rules? Blake wants to tell us that US docs stick with strip because they have a good conscience. I want to say US docs stick with strip because of economics and legal issues. Ethics of tech-extraction - a question to ponder If you are appalled at the ethics behind FUE tech-extraction protocols in in Turkey, how can you take the ethics of a US doctor putting a strip scar across a 28 year old's head and sending him away with a bottle of meds? For Brit and 66 etc. Of course I care As a strip victim/beneficiary and FUE advocate I had to watch the three biggect FUE clinics that I thought might have made a positive impact, banned from all the major US forums for many crucial years whilst the guns of Hasson and Wong, Feller etc. and their willing shills controlled the territory, laid down the ground fire, telling a whole generation of us all about the horrors and deceitful nature of FUE. And no, FUE docs are not good guys either. I dislike several prominent ones but that means nothing useful to anyone here IMO.

(1) Neograft is one thing. Artus is robotic FUE, lets call it RFUE We must be careful not to lose sight of the goal of discussion. Let us capture and ensnare the very object of it. It is groups or teams of techs welding hand-held devices and the doctor in 'the other room'. And this arrangement can work! I am living proof of it. But how well? I can't tell you. Footnote No one trusts Neograft, rightly or wrongly. Let's assume that techs can weld the extraction gun (or whatever they call it) but my ignorant ass suspects that docs won't allow Neo to do anything but extract - perhaps I'm wrong. The whole dig it, suck it up and place it routine - well, who knows, perhaps it is nobel prize in the waiting, and cudos if it is, perhaps it is a croc of sh&T. Will we ever know? (2) Of course CA and NY. Why not? They influence not only the States, but the world. Even the Red Hot Chilli Peppers say so. If a case goes down in California, some strip surgeon in Iowa contemplating tech-FUE will listen, and so will her/his insurance company. (3) What a load of absolute garbage!! Strip costs more? How much will it cost you in rehabilitation of your fingers and wrists - not to mention lost income you could have been making doing 90 minute strips (40 minute strip extraction) + (50 minute - and that is generous- incision sites? You must be joking, except, unfortunately you are not. You know these punks here are desperate and they will listen to you - a young star doctor - more than a poor lonesome little twat like me, pat his prime, over 50..oh, how I cry! lol Folks...never, ever, ever let docs tell you manual FUE is cheaper than strip for a clinic.

Thanks for reply,Blake. I didn't think so..rather u said u suspect that some members think so, which is quite differerent. And to re-iterate, you said that US clinics employ techs for extraction - quite catergorically. And yet when asked to explain which and where, you said it would be very difficult to poove. And would take extensive research. You said that rules are lax in some states. You also said that US docs preference for strip cannot be grounded in the economic or legal considerations because laws vary from state-to-state.. (and yet notably, details are vague anddifficult to determine-which undermines the force of your reasoning IMO.)

Blake, No chance, no chance you believe it! I've consulted HT surgeons since 1983, so many I can't remember the number, lost count. Every single one of them, without a single exception, presented with a package of views - like a set of default arguments - by rep then doc, or just doc. And they pointed clearly in the direction of a particular procedure they were keyed up for. It started with 'I can do t all' and finished with 'I recommend this' - and guess what 'this' was? Their 'default' procedure. Now, if I took the initiative (read: responsibility) many would happily oblige and that included certain procedure changes. But the key point is that you get a 'default' set of options that you either go with or fight against them. As time changed it would have been hilarious to observe their 'opinions evolve' except it was sad to realize that the same docs had told me a different story (since forgotten by them) and that what they were telling me would/could be different five years on. ....next point....... You said that techs extract in the states. Now you say, it would be difficult to tell and that it would take deep research. So which is it? They do or they don't, or we don't know? (Thanks KO for the tip about Michigan) I suspect that techs don't extract because it could expose them to the predatorial instincts of the litigation industry in the states, which is famous!! You even suggest, or allude to the notion that some states are lax - so right there you are admitting that vulnerabilities or cracks exist. Enter litigation! Strip does not persist because US docs are kinder, more honest. It persists because of momentum, economics and legal factors- it can't be anything else. Arguing that it is state by state isn't enough. California and New York are at the cutting edge of most trends in the states. The momentum they create influences everything else. So many states are strict and malpractice charges await, others are lax and so malpractice awaits like a time bomb there- even more so! Just imagine the insurance premiums you guys will be paying to cover a bunch of techs accidentally drilling into some ones melanoma? Imagine creative insurance brokers calculating your risk? The disclaimers the industry is notorious for could be threatened if the media in the states got hold of a story like that! ..another point.. We love the jargon, no problem. And you will get very tired of doing manual FUE. All the best do.

What are you guy talking about, you think you are doctors, or something? Really, this is a hair transplant forum! If the hair grows I'm all good, but anyway, we were not talking about fat per se. I think the fat is a good for forceps to hold and I think fat is good for strip clinics to hang on to too. It is their last hope. Really, the OP, will FUE prices fall has got be based on the widespread use of tech extracted FUE and Blake has dropped A BOMBSHELL here on this very thread. We are now covering it with smoke by talking about fat. Blake said here, in the good 'ol U S of A, clinics are performing tech-extracted FUE. We are hair transplant guys, right! This is a forum ab out HTs, so where are the clinics doing tech-extractions in the US? What are they charging? I think Britboy is on the mark. I think all of you talking about fat are off the mark. I think Blake saying, 'Hey, I don't mind either way - I'll do both' is just fine and dandy and completely useless, worse, it misleads you to thinking that you come to an HT clinic with a clean slate and that the determination to have strip or FUE is entirely independent of the context within which that particular clinic operates in and the momentum surrounding its marketing, and set-up. You WILL mind Blake. If you have to do manual FUE day in day out, week in , week out, you will be in a mess soon enough, and you sure know that! Now, can US clinics do tech-extraction? If so, where? Which states? Which clinics? How much do they charge? Are we not allowed to talk about them? By the way, FUE started in 1988. Strip, before. This FUT acronym is really BS and just typifies the bubble that US HT operated in then. Calling it FUT and contrasting it to FUE which is, and always was FUT itself. But that is a minor quibble.

The argument that american docs stick to strip because of their conscience is twaddle IMO. It is no slur on them as individuals to say this. I respect any doctor, and I don't mean that sarcastically. But to ignore how legal and economic realities influence outcomes and then marketing is just naive. Docs are also legally and economically trapped in their states, not only in the US. If tech extraction is a big thing in the US, or even a thing at all,, then we, at HTN, as a community should be all over the facts and the details. So bring them on! Buzzing my head was the last thing on my mind in 1988. In 2002, I could wish for noting else.

Well, it is a nice theory. I think the idea that they can help a doctor work effeciently and safely is appealling. And then there is the wonder-weapon aspect of it. And that should frighten us, or at least give us cause for doing due diligence (go figure what that means) These devices insulate people from the law, and an army of nameless techs swapping drills all day while the good doctor attends to other affairs can be rationalized if the results are good. Are they?

They won't last. The better they get, the more they destroy their own bodies.. Manual FUE takes a terrible toll - speaking as an expert, you must realize! Seriously, they won't do it for a sustained period- at least most will not, which will encourage the odd maverick to suck it in and reap the short term rewards. Even if they suffered no long term damage, what sort of mood is Dr X gonna be in when she/he comes home to see his/her kids after having spent six hours crouched in an awkward position, toggling a tiny but heavy thimble between her/his fingers. The only time it makes sense, is when one is building a reputation, and then once that is established, we switch to techs.

You still believe it:confused: Haven't you heard? It is a scam!

American docs are in a pickle at the moment with the impending demise of strip. The problem for them is that techs can't extract. But they can't go and work in Europe or a land where their medical licenses are valid - they can't even cross State lines in many cases. Going to Europe means thy have to re-do their residencies. For a while they held back the waters by blasting away at FUE, calling it a scam etc. but in doing so they shot themselves in the foot. In bashing FUE, machines like Neograft and Artas, t(he very things that might make FUE economical for them) were so maligned that they now almost have to hide the fact they use them. There is no way a doc can sit there manually extracting 5000 FUE grafts a week for a living. It is crisis time for them and I think we will see a number of them diversifying into other areas of plastic surgery.

I hear you there KO. For me, I wanted to hide going bald, then I wanted to hide having a hair transplant, then I wanted to hide that I even cared. Too late for that. No donor left. You are far more realistic than I have ever been. Good for you. That said, I don't think all HT punters wanna get the 'balding look' in preference to 'the bald look'

I hear you there KO. For me, I wanted to hide going bald, then I wanted to hide having a hair transplant, then I wanted to hide that I even cared. Too late for that. You are far more realistic than I have ever been. Good for you. That said, I don't think all HT punters wanna get the 'balding look' in preference to 'the bald look'

Congrats on ripper hair there Sam. Would love to have that volume. No doubt Konior is one of the best, but let's take a look at what he said because what Konior is saying here is the same 'ol same 'ol stuff Feller etc. have told us for years and (IMO) nothing to do with what they are capable of delivering for YOU! It should be no surprise that Konior has few FUE results. It should be no surprise that FUE wannabes get talked into strip. and Sam, I suspect your crown will be thin if meds don't carry on and so you will need more down the road. Enjoy it while you can. While there are still people sitting on the fence, you outta know, when you get to know the lie of the land and the economic/legal picture for surgeons in the states, the picture becomes clearer. The standard road block for the FUE wannabe in the states looks like this... 1) Both FUE and strip cause scarring. 2) You can't shave with FUE or strip. 3) FUE actually creates more scar tissue. 4) More success with hair with strip. 5) You can't afford FUE anyway 1. Who cares. What counts is visible scarring 2. Conflating the scar issue when it is really a binary 1 or 0 situation. 1 = FUE gives retreat option. 0 = strip, no retreat 3. see one 4. Yes, of course you will have more success if you 1) define success as lush volume in the frontal zones, 2) rarely attempt FUE by telling customers to do strip, or pricing customers out of FUE 5. You certainly can afford FUE, but not in The States. ..and we all know that strip follicles have more fat and hence are robust. Just saying, you shouldn't be 1) overly surprised as to why so few FUE results are forthcoming 2) shocked by these amazing strip results. Clearly this Sam result looks great and more power to him, but educate yourself about the reality for US surgeons and you can join many dots.

I've always assumed they don't die completely - they are, after all, still living tissue, else they would rot in your skin. So the story I've believed is that, 1) They shrink and move upwards toward the dermis where they stay as useless pieces of archeological junk. But perhaps they go some where like hair heaven? Could they be caniballized by neighboring cells and flushed out of the body through the lymphatic system? Sounds like BS? In any case, caffeine does not make them spring back to life. I always wonder how people believe that stimulating them through blood flow is going to help them. These cells died because of DHT, so increasing blood flow just means more DHT!

Loags, I couldn't refute or agree with you. That would be a matter of you and your intuition. I would be interested, for the sake of argument, to ask where I am misguided. It almost suggests that I have been misled by something or someone. I am gullible if that is what you mean, and I have rationalized many HT decisions based on grasping at some idea, fact or assumption without looking at the bigger picture. Something an HT doc/rep takes as gratis in their business. However, looking back in this case, I think about how BHT works in the bigger scheme of things. As Dr. Bhatti says, it is ancillary but on the other hand, using beard in the areas he suggests might not be the best, and I definitely disagree with the 'Gold Standard' and empirical argument. Yep, sure you can. Sorry for not being clear. Will you have enough hair for it? I think that crowns require a lot of hair and that is why you need to match the density to other areas of the scalp, or else it will look thin. I think beard might help, especially for older gents with white/grey mixed in and a short cut. Buzzing down areas to match the density of a thinning but well transplanted crown requires you to be able to cut the back short. If you have a strip scar that may be complicated, however, once again, beard hair and old age may help. also don't forget that although facial hair comes and goes with fashion - the 90s goatie isn't that fashionable for younger people now, there is still something to be said for keeping some of them whiskers if you are a baldie. But yes, you can cover the crown. A lot of strip docs concentrate on building the front up at the expense of the crown. It is a pragmatic approach, but leaves many with a balding crown. Meds complicate it (favourably) but still, I think it is a shame to have a balding crown after years of HT surgery. Others don't give a damn, just throw some product in there, comb back, and drive their porche off into the sunset.