MachoVato

54 minutes ago, lowkey said:

Dear @MachoVato thank you for your message and sharing your experience.  Actually it is not numb anymore it has started to normalize. 
 
What I mean with black heads is; the new hairs sticking out. I am asking because I don't have too many of those instead I have thin hairs (like miniaturized hair). If you think my progress is good I won't question "why I don't have grafts that are sticking out from my scalp" 

Good observation yes. Unfortunately, hairs that are lower than what is designed in HLC are the persistent hair grafts with wrong direction from my previous transplant.  Dr. Özgür insisted to cover all the area with a lower hairline (similar to my failed transplanted) but I didn't want to lower the hairline to cover more grafts for the future and I decided to have a more conservative hairline.

I am planning a small improvement on my temples (similar to your case), maybe I would prefer to punch them out and re-use in the temples. Since I had multiple laser removal session those hairs are quite thin right now.

Ok, I think I know what you mean about the black tips. I think it means that they fell out when you shed. The thin hairs are the NEW hairs coming out. They start very thin, like miniatured hairs. They will continue to grow, get darker and thicker. This is why your hair will get better between month 8 and 12. Because you'll get hair cuts and the thin hair will be gone. 

In my opinion, you want some native hairs below your hairline. This creates a softer appearance and helps it look more natural. But yes, I like your plan to start conservative. Let it grow and go back for temples (which make a huge difference!). Then you can remove the last bad grafts and improve the hairline.

Most people don't realize that a great hair transplant requires more than one visit. I think you are on a journey for a great result! 

I like the guy well enough. Interesting content. But he's a big user of fibers. I think many of his videos are sponsored by one brand. 

Not sure if he has enough grafts available. I'm not really a fan of his hairline, but he pulls it off.

In Mexico there's Dr. Nader and there's HCM clinic with Dr. Cortez in Tijuana. They'll pick you up from San Diego, I believe. 

There's also Dr. Camacho in Bogota, Colombia who does nice work. I hear they take nice care of you there, too. 

There's a couple in Brazil, too.

Are you expanding your search? You'll want to consult with doctors that can do high density in 1 pass. It's hard to do so you want top level doctors. 2000 grafts is a significant amount of grafts and most will go to your temples. A transplant that yields medium-dense temples will look like a failure, because they surround your high-dense native hair.

Look up Ferreira in Portugal and De Freitas in Spain. They have long waiting lists and may take a couple months to get online evaluation feedback, but they are worth the wait.

There is a difference between "needing" a transplant and "wanting" a transplant. Very few people need it. 95% of us get one because we don't like our hair, it makes us feel old, someone commented on us going bald, mid-life crisis, or whatever. 

You're not a high norwood, which are difficult and expensive cases. Most high norwoods should shave it and be done with it, but their "want" for hair sends them down the rabbit hole. 

I think you're a perfect candidate for a homerun transplant.  Tons of donor, mild recession, and curly hair. With Bisanga, there's pretty much no chance of it not coming out amazing.

5 hours ago, lowkey said:

@MachoVato May I ask you a question about my situation; I know it is early to expect a full result at the moment but I don't have this feeling/sensation of tingling do you think it is a bad sign? + I don't also see small black heads of the graft in my close up photos. I will appreciate if you can share it based on your experience because between month 4 and 5 your progress was amazing from the photos. 

I am not sure about the tingling sensation you are talking about. I think it is normal for the recipient area to be numb (no sensation) after procedure. I would say it is a good thing that you don't have a tingling sensation. But I think everyone responds differently, based on the amount of nerve damage. Sometimes, my scalp would feel sharp pain, like someone poking me with a needle. It's normal part of the healing process.

And I'm not sure about the black heads on the grafts. Are you talking about scabs/crusts?  Do you have an example of that? Your photos look exactly as they should, imo. 

For me, my growth started around 4.5 months or so. It got better every month after that. I would have been happy if it stopped improving at month 9, it was such a big improvement. And I know everyone says you have to wait 12 months for results and it really is true. It gets better... the hair continues to get more thick and natural looking. 

Your case is very interesting because it is a repair. You still have hair lower than where Cengiz implanted your hairline. Are you going to continue to get those removed? Or just shave them down? 

I don't remember helping you, but I'm glad to hear I made difference. 

It never is easy to learn about botched transplants. They are getting real good at marketing, social media, and some even steal before/after photos from other clinics to mislead patients. And it's hard to recover from a depleted donor. 

This is going to be an interesting case to follow. I'm sure all the scarring complicates the repair. But it look like it's on track for a great result!

4 or 4.5 months is VERY early! Most people wait for 4 months to see the beginning of the new hair growth. Your new hair is just beginning to grow. Give it time.

Yes, I agree that it looks like shock loss, unfortunately. That can take a couple more months to recover. Minoxidil may help. Maybe even start taking low dose of cialis, which can improve blood flow. Thanks for sharing!

Have you had your bloodwork checked? Have you considered checking your testosterone and estrogen levels? 

Hormone imbalance can cause all kinds of issues. 

5 minutes ago, Apon said:

Prices are too high.

My budget is usd 3500.

Not sure how many grafts I need

Well, based on your photo and other evaluations, you need at least 3500 for your hairline and mid-scalp, nothing on your crown for now.

So about 3,300 Euro. That *really* limits your options. I think Turan is 4000€ for up to 4000 grafts, something like that.

You are in the Cinik/Cosmedica all-inclusive technician-led options. You have to be careful here and truth is you won't find a lot of support on this forum for this level.

59 minutes ago, Username22 said:

As someone who is in the early stages of their research, could I ask if you could recommend any alternatives to Dr Bicer for consideration?

My advice is not to approach your research this way... Bicer vs everyone else. haha

Realistically, you need to have a general idea of how many grafts you need and then have a budget. So let's say you need 2500 grafts and you have a budget of 5000€. Ok, so that limits you to 2€/graft. There's no reason to limit yourself to Turkey, although it's likely the best option. You can go to Mexico, Colombia, maybe Brazil for that price, too. 

Ok, so find the clinics in that range and start looking at patient cases with similar hair goals and see how they came out. In Turkey, under 2€ is hard. I already mentioned Turan and Gur. Maybe Yaman, not sure of his prices but he wouldn't be on my recommendation list. Besides them, there are Cosmedica, Cinik, Smile, Sule, etc. etc. and these are your so called "hair mills" and are generally avoided here. 

If you can stretch to 2.5 - 3.0€, many options open up. In addition to Bicer in Turkey are HLC and Pekiner. But you can go to Portugal and talk to Pinto. Ferreira increased his price to 3.5€ (I believe) so he's out. In Spain, I believe you can go to Dr. Vila and BHR Malaga (BHR is part of Bisanga's network). In Greece is BHR Athens. Cyprus has Dr. Maras at HDC, I believe Dr. Christina also at HDC is under 2€. 

Eugenix has options in this range, but the best work is at the top packages and I believe they are around 3.5€. Still, the packages with Dr. Bansal are worthy of consideration (just watch out for VAT). Belgium, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Poland are all out of range. Personally, I'm not a fan of the UK options.

If you have up to 5€/graft, which would be 12,500€ for 2500 grafts, the world opens up. Very few are higher than that, mostly US doctors.

17 minutes ago, Username22 said:

In fairness you appear to be the only critic I can find of Dr Bicer at the moment and It is only constructive if there is balance of opinions. Sometimes someone may have discovered something which others may have overlooked. 

Please correct me if I am mistaken , but you have suggested in your view that she hasn’t produced the best results across the forum. However, as far I am aware you haven’t quoted any cases to support your opinion and or elaborated with any sound reasoning.

It would be interesting if you could propose any cases which you think could have been done differently and or in a better manner?

First post, huh?

I am absolutely not the only person to have this opinion. Read the first page of this thread.

If you want evidence of her results, you will have a hard time finding it. For someone doing this 20 years, there are not many cases that show 12 month results. Almost no YouTube videos of patient cases, although many of her being interviewed. The same could be said for Dr. Ferreira, who until Mr. Rolandas was completely unknown. But the cases I've seen from him are brilliant.

No, I won't call out members here and pick apart their results. I also don't want to talk badly about the lovely Dr. Bicer. I am not in any way suggesting that she is a bad doctor and I have never said that. All I am saying is that she isn't the best in the country (as 2 or 3 people on here say) and that I can't recommend her at 2.5€/graft when there are equally talented doctors at half the price.  

7 minutes ago, Eran said:

You can think whatever you want, no issues with that.

I know enough. No need to comment further.

from here, anyone will decide to whom they want to believe.

Hang on, my friend. You're challenging my integrity and ethics. I'm not hiding anything, I'm not anonymous. My identity is easily found. If you think you know something, share it.

On 6/15/2022 at 8:43 AM, Eran said:

It will be easier for the discussion if @MachoVato will tell you also he is an agent of some Turkish surgeon. I won’t say who, he will say if he wants.

at that point, his “advices” worth same like ad.

You think I am an agent for someone? I'm guessing you mean HLC, since I believe, and have stated, they are the best in Turkey. If I was an agent, why would I go to Bisanga and pay double the price for my second transplant? That makes no sense. 

I am not an agent/rep/undercover spy/affiliate/counselor or anything like that for any clinic or doctor anywhere and have never been at any time. 

And because of that, I am free to voice my true opinion. Bicer is easily the most over rated doctor on here. No one heard of her 2.5 years ago and now she's the best in Turkey. She's on Spex's top 25 doctors in the world list (never mind that Konior isn't even on that list), which is also ridiculous. I'm offended you think I'm being paid for my opinion just because you disagree with me.

She's a good doctor, sure. Very ethical, whatever that means. Seems lovely and nice. I've seen 1 or 2 "excellent" results from her. She's a doctor that needs two transplants to get great results, which most good doctors can do. She's a safe option, I don't think I've ever seen any failures. At 1.5€/graft I used to recommend her.

Now she's 2.5€/graft. As far as I know, that makes her the 5th most expensive clinic in Turkey, behind Keser, HLC, Pekiner, and maybe Erdogan? And in my opinion, she's not at that level (although I don't recommend Asmed). 

Here's the real problem.... she's twice the price of Turan and Gur, who have just as much experience as she does And that's the level she is at. Good... not great, not elite.

It's easy enough to make a guess. Measure the length of your current hairline, from temple to temple. 

Let's say it's 7 inches, or about 18 cm. If you lower your hairline 1cm and want high density of about 50 grafts/cm2... that would be 18 x 50 = 900 grafts.

If you want to lower it 1 inch (or 2cm), double it. 

29 minutes ago, Apon said:

No I m not...I went to a hair club in USA Which is a non surgical treatment. They were saying my follicles are closed

Most people will agree that you should try a non-surgical solution first. Specifically, finasteride, minoxidil and ketoconazole shampoo. I would say for at least 6 months before contemplating surgery. More than stabilizing your hair, it will likely reverse some hair loss. Which will allow  you to need a smaller transplant in the future, if you decide to do that.

Looks great at this length. I would think the scars would be more obvious when you grow out your hair a little, maybe? The dark hair might accent the scars. 

That said, I agree with everyone else, no one would notice the FUE scars unless you know what to look for.

23 minutes ago, Cantstandya said:

What's wrong with that price? Her work is consistently great. She's got almost a 1 year long waiting list. 

I disagree with you that her results are consistently great. Good, yes. Great, no. 

She was a great value at 1.5, but she's increased her price twice in a year. There are many other doctors I would rather recommend in the 2.5 - 2.7 range. But that's just my opinion.

Agree with above.

And please, whatever you do, don't Google "best transplant clinic in Turkey". It's all paid content and 90% of the clinics in the lists are garbage. Really!

33 minutes ago, Egy said:

In fact, I also think like you, its strong point is post transplant assistance and its ethics, rare to find in all surgeons, but in reality, in my opinion it is overestimated.  It's just my opinion.

I saw that Bicer increased her price to 2.5€/graft recently, too. For me, it's tough to recommend her at that price.

Good job!

Definite improvement over your starting point. But it does look like many grafts didn't survive, for reason unknown. I'm hesitant to point the finger at your hair thinness. If your hair was that thin, Bicer should have dense-packed accordingly. If not, the result would be thin, as we have here. I also think the area is too large for 3800 grafts, so that surely contributed to the lack of density.

I'm sure you were planning on a second HT to cover your crown anyways. Before going back to Bicer, please shop around again. Get evaluations and recommendations. 

If you don't have the beard/chest donor available, it may be best to leave your crown alone and just double-up in your front/top. That's tricky work and I would look at Ferreira and De Freitas just as examples, who have some nice cases of increasing density in a second pass.

2 hours ago, hope everything is nova said:

Zarev seems to be the best in the world for high Norwoods. 

Pitella and Hattingen are pretty close too. 

Eugenix has some worldclass results but also some botched jobs on easy cases. 

And Zarev's results on high Norwoods seem  denser than Eugenix's. 

No argument here.

And Zarev donor management is arguably the best I've ever seen. That vacuum-assisted extraction thing he uses... I believe changes the FUE game. The donor looks healed by the end of the day!

1 hour ago, EricD said:

I haven’t considered Cialis, but will look into it.  Started finasteride a week before surgery.  Kicking myself for not starting years ago, but what’s done is done I suppose!

 

BTW, I checked out your thread on your HLC experience.  I hope to get the results you achieved.  I see many similarities in our cases.

The big difference between cialis and viagra is the half life. Cialis is 36 hours and viagra is like 4 hours, I think. So taking cialis (a vasodilator) once a day may improve the blood flow in your scalp. With the density they are implanting, you want to improve your graft survival. Blood flow will be tricky.

Here's an interesting case of high-density where he took viagra and cialis.
https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/61031-very-high-density-forehead-reduction-3361-grafts/

Yes, I think there are similarities in our cases. There is a small possibility that I go for a third transplant to close my temples a little more, maybe. If so, I'll go back to HLC. Good luck! 

Whoa that's some serious density!

Have you considered taking tadalafil (cialis) for a few months? Even microdosing, the improved blood flow would be a good idea. At minimum, ask the doctors about it.