MachoVato

27 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

As it is told to me, and you can find many videos from doctors like Bisanga saying that, when the donor area depleted is many of the blood vessels that suply this area are damaged too. The hairs that are left are not with blood well supplied and that causes this hairs to become smaller. 

It is their obligation to check and examine every patient before hairtransplant to see the Donor-Capacity and if there is any miniaturization. And i mean really EXAMINE the donor area, not just touching the donor area or see from behind how it looks. This is not what professionals do. 

How can you say you trusted these guys to perform your hairtransplant, but you don"t really know what kind of doctor operated on you? Would you be fine knowing that the doctor who operated on you, he was before unemployed in turkey and because he could not find anything else to do he started doing HT? I have questioned myself too you know and that only shows one thing, lack of research.

No, o don"t take any finasterid or minoxidil now.

I've never heard that hair gets thinner from a depleted donor. Miniaturization is caused by DHT. And with respect, I don't believe you've been over-harvested. Still recovering from shock loss, maybe. It doesn't look great 6 months post-op, but it doesn't look botched.

This isn't about me. But HLC doctors are not technicians from off the street. I don't know what university they went to but I trust completely that they are doctors with medical degrees. What's equally important is that they have been there for years, as I've seen Dr. Elif and Dr. Cengiz patients from many years ago.

Perhaps the ethical concern I have is that they operated on you without being on finasteride. They have turned down patients without that. At minimum, I would recommend minoxidil, oral version if possible. Medication is part of the hair transplant protocol for most people.

You've made very negative statements about HLC, and you're free to do that. Some people agree with you and that's totally fine. I offered a different view point and you called me unknowledgeable and dangerous. I'm not your enemy here but I'm allowed to not agree with you.

2 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

It gets worse over time brcause the new hairs that grow there have a smaller diameter. That is not said by me, but from one of the top doctors that are recommended here. The multiple grafts on the hairline are the kind of work they did to me.

How do you know everything about the kind of work they are doing every day? i have asked you before, the doctor that operated on you is he a Dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? 

If you are saying that you have miniaturization in your donor area, how is that HLC's fault? A transplant may cause some shock loss, in which case your hair starts a new anagen phase (I think that's right). The hair should thicken over time.

Have you started finasteride or minoxidil, which may cause shedding? That could cause your hair to get worse but it always gets better with time.

No, I don't know the exact medical degree of the doctors that worked on you. 

1 minute ago, michael hofmann said:

I have high expectations that i wanted to look normal after a hairtransplant? I have spoken to 3 different doctors by now and they all told me that a depleted donor area like mine is very hard to fix, this is permanent damage and Disfiguration and you are telling me this is ok, not botched? I have already said that with the time it has only gotten worse, the guys from the HLC told me that i had to wait for 6 months, but you know better. 

As i have written before they have implanted multiple grafts on the hairline with wrong angles, that is why i have cutted my hair short. And it has not gotten any better.

I think i have every good reason to believe that these doctors are more than scammers, they are criminals. Do you know anything about the doctor who operated you there? Is he a Dermatologist? Is he a plastic surgeon? 

 

I don't believe they implanted multiple grafts into your hairline or in the wrong angles. The photos don't show that and that's not the kind of work they do. 

How on earth does donor area get worse over time? That makes me not believe anything you say. I'm not going to argue with you. If they are criminals, call the police. 

7 minutes ago, ITA said:

Listens I have already written that I was one of those who considered HLC one of the best choices a patient can make to undergo a hair transplant in Turkey (along with Pekiner and Bicer), but with @michael hofmann HLC behaved like one of many mills for hair that is in that country, not taking into account, possibly the Dermatitis or Ekzema that the patient has on the face and above the ears, which in my opinion, has influenced the success of his transplants, the OP says no, but he will never know for sure.  Ethical surgeons (and I gave the example of H&W who rejected a patient for a second procedure, seeing a scalp irritation, could have done it, earning their money, but they didn't), don't just think about money, HLC, here he thought a lot about that.

I'm ok with you, really. I try not to get defensive with HLC or Bisanga because I went to them. I get most frustrated with the groupthink on here, but that's just the way I am. 

I'm not convinced HLC behaved as badly as they are portrayed here. HLC has declined a patient before. Anything is possible, but naturally I take notice of every HLC case and this unethical behavior is out of character.

14 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I really think you don"t know what you are talking about.

12 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

And you are dangerous too.

Oh, I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're the one calling doctors scammers. These are YOUR photos. Your timeline. If you want to ask for a refund, go for it. You'll have more luck asking for a free top up. 

Could results be better? Yes.
Is it botched? No.
Will it get better over time? Yes.
Can you improve your hair cut and style? Yes.
Are your expectations too high? Also yes.

14 minutes ago, RTC said:

@MachoVatodo you really believe the donor will continue improving after 6 months? Very very unlikely

Here's my donor recovery.

6 hours ago, ITA said:

I would like to hear the opinion of @MachoVatohere, as he accused me on this thread of "throwing the reputation of HLC, one of the few Turkish ethical clinics, under a bus"

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence. Today, there are better photos. This is what I see.

Before HLC, crown is completely bald. Results from first FUT are very low density and pluggy. Looks like Norwood 6 to me.

Crown looks much better 1 year after 1st transplant. Density isn't great, but better. It would look better with longer hair.

Donor 1 year after 1st procedure. Looks thinner but totally fine. Not depleted.

The hairline from the FUT, before HLC touched it. 

Hairline post-op after 2nd transplant. HLC implanted into previous transplanted hairs. First time I've seen them do this. At this point, I like it. Shows promise.

Today 6 months post op. Lots of improvement. I would still like to see more density even at 6 months. But why on earth did you cut it that short?!

Donor today. Only 6 months. I would expect it to recover more. It looks uneven because of the SMP on the scar. It's obviously cut pretty short. I would cut it much shorter (tight fade style), which I would not recommend because of your FUT scar. Or grow it out. But still, not a botched donor.

In summary, I'm still on the patient's side. The density on the crown worries me most. I would expect it to be better after 1 year. Maybe the beard grafts didn't grow? I don't know. 

The hairline looks much better than before, which was pretty poor. 6 months is too early to make "botched job" accusations for any transplant. Yes, personally I would expect better density at this point, but every head is different.  And for goodness sake, grow it out! Why did you cut it that short?! Most of our hairlines would look bad if we cut it that short. 

Maybe this is a video @Melvin- Moderator could create. How to grow your hair after a transplant. There are limitations when we remove grafts from the back and implant to the top. How to grow/cut/style our hair contributes to the "illusion of density". 

Just be careful about using credit cards.

Make sure the credit card doesn't charge for international transactions, most do. And some clinics charge a fee for not paying cash, I've heard up to 5% or so.

But yes, if the clinic accepts credit cards and you have good credit, look for the cards with incentives. Like 60,000 bonus points. 

there  are companies that offer loans for cosmetic surgery. Just like auto loans.

Like CareCredit

I know Costco has great prices on generic which I have NO problems with.

I just got a prescription filled for 30 pills of 5mg finasteride (generic) for $10. I'll probably throw it away, I want 1mg (no I don't want to cut them up). I'll have my doctor give me a new Rx.

4 minutes ago, BirdsEyez said:

There’s like 5-8 different cases on here including me, who hasn’t even created his own post yet. Just because you’re a lucky one who got good results doesn’t mean everyone will. So what went wrong?

 

how many other people who don’t even know about this forum has this happened too? Exactly 

No, there are not 8 failed transplants from HLC on here. A couple with good results but with an area that didn't come in dense, yes.

Honestly, your case may be the worse I've seen from HLC. I haven't seen your story yet, but those photos are unacceptable results. I'd demand a repair from them. Start your own thread so we don't throw this thread off track. 

4 hours ago, ITA said:

An elite clinic, it is also evaluated based on post-transplant care, which in my opinion is as important as the procedure itself, and here, if you allow, HLC is behaving the same way hundreds of pseudo clinics or hair mills swarming in Turkey.

I was one of those who thought that HLC, along with Bicer and Pekiner was among the best clinics in Turkey, perhaps because until some time ago, I had only seen good results, but here is that when the unexpected comes out, the negative sides are manifested of a clinic, which in an ethical clinic, should not exist.

You're throwing, imo, the best clinic in Turkey under the bus because of this one person's story? A story that leaves us with many questions. There isn't another side to this? You're very quick to throw the "unethical" card at them.

Look, I don't care either way. The "best clinic in Turkey" list changes all the time on here. It won't be long before Asli Tarcan will be the best option. 

4 hours ago, nks123 said:

Hmm I was interested in HLC but experiences like this makes me not want to go... 

If you're looking for a clinic that doesn't have subpar results, you might as well shave your head because they don't exist. HLC has been around for over a decade and they have 4 or 5 doctors working there, so theoretically 5 patients per day. They work 6 days a week. You do the math.

This forum (like others) has a vocal minority with strong biases. Take all of our advices with a grain of salt no matter how "in the know" we think we are. I would always recommend going to the best place you can afford. If you can pay up to 3.5€/graft, there are a few great options. I would say you can upgrade to elite doctor level when you get to 5€/graft. 

Do your own research.

5 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

First of all i would like to say that i have texted the coordinator of the clinic and said to him that i wanted to here their opinion and the opinion of the doctors before i publish my story and the photos that i have. I did not get any answer either. Secondly i have said many times before that they did not send me any photos, i have emailed the clinic today and asked them to send me these photos. If they are professionals as you say they will do that and i will post them immidiately. As for Deppression after spending so much money to get this result would you be happy about it? I am not talking about poor growth here, i am talking about having people staring at your head like your are weird the whole time. 

Let me say that I am on YOUR side, not theirs. You have every reason to feel bad when a transplant doesn't work out. All I am saying is that this story is not simple. You have a scalp condition, which bothers me the most... why did they operate on you, did you tell them your dermatologist said it was ok? 

Your post-op treatment sounds bad. There is no excuse, but you should continue to email/whatsapp them until you get your photos. That is part of the service.

I don't have a relationship with HLC, even though I have been accused of it. Cengiz worked on me and I had no issues. Yes, they are professionals but no they are not perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect clinic. You deserve better treatment.

Here is my recommendation. Continue to request the photos from both transplants. When you have them, share them so it is clear the timeline. And yes, please take better selfies. You can send the large photos to Melvin or me, we would be happy to remove your face. I am very good in Photoshop.

A final message. Please find a way to reduce your depression. Sadly, stress will only make your hair worse.  Talk to someone. Go to the gym. Walk in the park and get fresh air. You have many reasons to not be unhappy.

I'm all for supporting the patient here, but this is clearly a one-sided story with (let's face it) very poor photos. And with love and respect, I'm reading an element of depression too. There are people here with an axe to grind with HLC, and that's fine. Calling them a hair mill is ridiculous but the bandwagon is in motion. 

EvansLawrence keeps coming up as a botched job and he wanted something like 80% refund or something absurd like that. He had an area not grow in very dense, sure. But this is what he looks like now.

I'm the first defend HLC because I went there and had a very different experience. This is why you should do your own research. 

Again, I sympathize but to call them a scam or hair mill or "not doctors" is extreme and, in my opinion, should be backed up with proper before/after photos from both procedures.

Yikes, that's not a good outcome at all! I recognize the logo on your shirt in that photo. That's not a good outcome from 4000 grafts from the first surgery at all!

Like all clinics, they take many pre-op and post-op photos with their 35mm camera. They sent them to me a week or so after my procedure. 

I believe you went there and believe these results are not good. But you should post the clinic photos from before both transplants. The selfie photos are not good enough to see the real condition.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

2 hours ago, Marc Antoine said:

I've sent a request via Dr PEKINER website a few weeks ago but I got no reply. His website does not seem to work anymore. Looks like all posts from his insta has been deleted. Too bad because he had some good reviews but I give up on him.

He's rebranded. Try neoheadclinic in Instagram.

When we had a receded hairline and low density, we would push our hair forward to give the illusion of a lower hairline.

Now you have hair, you can style it more youthful. Most people get a transplant but in their head they are still balding, so they grow it out super long or style it oddly.

Your stylist is right. They know what style is best for your face. Trust her!

Looking great!!

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I could not find the thread - can you kindly post a link here- thank you so much

It was just an example title. Many people ask about Turkish clinics. Start here

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?q=turkey&quick=1&search_in=titles

14 minutes ago, jordyeddie99 said:

well who then

"Which clinic in Turkey" is a very popular thread on here. There are some excellent discussions on this topic. Start with the search. 

Wow! You have great hairs/graft. Clean work, excellent angles. This should be a great result!

Keep up posted!

5 months is super early. It's clear you have new hair in an area where there was none. Really, I wouldn't be disappointed until month 8 or 9 when the new hairs are long enough to see.

Why didn't the doctor add grafts to the mid-scalp? Who was the doctor?

It looks awesome! But fear the shed... it's coming! 🥸

This is sooo good! It's not fair.

1 hour ago, asda said:

i agree with you. Of course he is better than before but the result looks average and lacks of density. What do you think was the total survival rate of grafts, because you said that many grafts did not survive.

With the limited photos, I'd guess maybe 25% didn't come through? Maybe 1000 grafts? I'm completely guessing. 

I don't agree that the complication is that he's a NW6 or 7. The transplant only covered the front half and only 3800 grafts were used. I think he could have used more, but it was the right decision to minimize the grafts, considering the donor isn't very strong. So being conservative was smart.

Of course, for full coverage he needs 2 procedures. Saving the crown for last. But the hairline didn't come through, which is the most important part since that is what people see when they are looking at him.

Normally I would recommend going to a different doctor, but not here. I would go back to Bicer and ask her to make it better. Maybe she'll do it at a reduced price, I'm sure she wants a good outcome. Maybe add beard grafts, it looks like that might be available. Especially since they are thicker hairs. 

I also agree to change hair style. Yes, the top would look better with more length. And remember, shorter on the sides/back makes the top look more full. Maybe even a "low fade". It makes a big difference how people see the hair.