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  1. txtransplant

    Growth peak

    Growth peak. Hmm, not sure exactly what you are asking. But they say 18 months is your absolute full result, though you have pretty much maxed out what you will see by months 12 for almost everyone. If what you are asking is when do you see the biggest changes? I would say month 5-8. I think this makes sense as the resting phase is usually about 4 months. So thin hairs start really popping up around month 5 and are almost all doing their thing by month 7. After about month 8 things usually continue to improve, but at a much more modest rate than that. No two patients are the same. A tiny percent (maybe 2%) never shed and have almost full growth almost out of the gate. And a small number of patients don't shed all of it, myself included shed only a portion of the new grafts, and some of the grafts stay from day one and grow. It seems like maybe 25% have a small to medium percent of hairs that grow right from the start. Most people shed every new graft or nearly all. And sadly for a few patients, they have poor regrowth. Sometimes that is Dr. error. But even the best doctors have failures and that is just biology. Sometimes your body just rejects the implants. Everyone is at a different rate. But even the slowest 10% will see most of their result buy month 12. I have never seen someone who looked thin and like a weak hair transplant result at month 12 then have a great result by months 18. I have seen plenty of subtle improvements on patients in that time though. And another thing. All the real home run cases I have seen, they are always looking great by about month 8. I think by about month 8 you have a pretty good idea of where you are headed. Some basic facts or observations. Many doctors claim they get over 95% regrowth on transplanted grafts. The medical journals seem to suggest it is closer to 85% on average. I do think skilled physicians with an ideal patient can do that. But I think most people with a respected doctor and good scalp and hair characteristics should reasonably be expecting around 88-90% to grow. Anything more being a bonus and less being still reasonable. Most of the failures here I see are one of two things. Biggest is patient going to a doctor who doesn't do this as a specialty. Even the more reputable hair mills where technicians and not doctors do the work seem to be better choices than the local plastic surgeon who does the occasional HT. The other failures are varying degree of just an unlucky bit of biology on the patients part. For every patient that has results that far exceed the average there is is one who falls far below the average. It could be stress, bad aftercare, or just unknown biology the same way we all hear and react differently. Set your expectations at average, know the pitfalls and do your math! Understand how many grafts you truly need per cm2 and how important the thickness of each hair is. A patient with 45 grafts per cm2 with very thick hairs and all double and tripple FU's will have like 8x the visual coverage of another patent with 45 grafts per cm2 with thin hair and mostly singles. So in this case one guy with the same number of grafts could look like rock star thick hair while the other guy might look very thin and stringy even if both had 100% regrowth. People don't do their homework and account for this. I think you would have a lot less disappointed patients if they new better what to expect and what they need to achieve the look they want. But here are some guidelines; You need about 1/2 your original hair density to look like you have hair. Now for most people I think this is not really accurate. You will look not THINNING at first glance with this. But in the sun or under bright light, you not going to look like you have the hair of a 11y old. Again, depends how think your hair is. If your hair is super thick then maybe 50% is still enough to look full. If your hairs are straight, thinner and your follicles are not spaced close, then guess what, 50% of your original density is going to look pretty thinned. That's life! Simply put, some people were born for this and some were never meant to do more than warm the bench. People with great hair characteristics, Hairs above 60 microns, density of 100 fu per cm2 and milti hair grafts are the big winners here, Now if they have a bit of a wave or closer match to scalp color....even better. Last statistic I read said mature men average between 60 and 100 follicles per cm2 and average hair thickness was 50 microns. Couple that with the average FU graft being 2.2 hairs per FU. Know your reality here to know where you are going. If your hair is 30 microns v 70. Guess what? You will get closer to 4x the volume of hair on your head with the same number of hairs. So know your math! 2,000 grafts on someone with very thin, straight hair and lot's of single hair grafts is going to have something like 1/12 the coverage that a guy with really really thick wavy hair and lot's of 3 hair grafts. And that is not even getting into scalp contrast to hair. You realize quickly even 100% regrowth by the best surgeon in the world we are already vastly different as patients. If you know what your microns are, density, and such, then you can know what to expect after you see hundreds of results and pick a doctor. You might realize you are a great candidate or that you are in over your head trying to get a great hairline again. I seen way too many guys here making two huge mistakes. Being to aggressive in their hairline for what they have to work with. They always end up looking thin and disappointed when someone looking at it knowing all this could see the mess coming before it started. Unfortunately doctors know that those patients will just go to someone else who tells them what they want to hear and they try and do the best they can to help their patients. But it is cycle I see repeated over and over. Granted, there a few surgeons who flat out refuse to do this. H&W is one that comes to mind where I never see this simple math ignored. Sure, like every practice, they have some home runs and some guys who's bodies just didn't work well with HT. That's just different people's biology...not DR. error there. But I never see them take on a patient and not give them the proper math to meet their goals when they do operate. I am sure they loose some patients because of this. On the other hand, I see lot's of good work in Turkey too. But way too often no real modeling is done and you have a patient with the wrong density over too large and area left disappointed.
  2. I did not have a huge shed. I truly don't know what percent shed. But enough stayed that I could not really tell when sprouts started happening. I am a few days short of 5 months and mixed in with grafts that never shed I can see a number of short thin hairs that are clearly grafts that shed growing a new hairs. They are bout 1cm long. So I guess my best answer is at around month 4 is when grafts that shed and went into the resting phase started to produce new hairs. It is not a ton of them, and some are longer or shorter meaning each shed graft has it's own ideas on when it is show time.
  3. txtransplant

    2,300 grafts FUE w/ Dr. Nader

    You shed tons of hairs. Looks like nearly all of your transplanted hairs fell out. So kind of shocking to hear you say you didn't shed when it is obvious by the pics you shed most all of it. Normal to have a few thin hangers on that don't shed. You will get some fine fuzz starting to poke through over the next few months and they will become thicker over time. Be patient.
  4. Doesnt H&W mostly do FUT? AKA strip? If that's the case...huge mistake for you.
  5. yep...nothing here that can't be fixed fairly simply and will get better from here. That's the reality and that isn't so bad. And don't ask GF about hair too much. I guarantee she is tired of it..lol. My ex wife and I are still close. She just rolls her eyes and is sick of me asking her opnions on it.
  6. IDK. He for sure did harvest from the safe zone...so no worries there. I can't tell if he shaved the donor area a bit closer to the surrounding hair or not. My surgeon did mine by a mm or so. I didn't realize it for a few weeks. The I finally realized that that MM was happening. It almost went away after I clipped it to the same length after a few weeks. But the are didn't get any shock loss and still seemed a little slower to really kick back into growing for a few weeks. I am not sure I would say overharvested. He took from a decent sized area...but maybe to me that size area should be able to do the number of grafts you got. I would agree that he should have been more artistic an tapered the density of the harvesting so there would not be such a marked line. Honestly, If you cover the top border with your finger I could barely notice. Bet in another week not at all noticeable. My guess is you have a bit of shock loss too. Again....breathe. It will look better back there with a little time. That is 10000% a fact. If the hair get's a tad longer and evenly cut....fixed. Even if nothing has shock lossed. If some have shock lossed....even better then. And let's face it. We all kind of agree you will need a touch up either way. So then when the time comes for that....have them taper the harvest so there is not such a defined line. Your Dr was in the safe zone and there appears to be room to do a tapered harvest in back. So, don't stress about it. As another poster said. You are probably great at lots of things in life. Chiling out and kicking back with a beer laughing your way through the ugly duckling stage....not really your strong suit. But the back is a legitimate concern and question. But it for sure will get better and would just get fixed anyway even worst case. But in the meanwhile. grow it about another cm and 1/2 in the back and don't worry about it for now.
  7. About splitting grafts. Lots of surgeons including mine mine consider splinting multi hair grafts to be a bad idea. So, sometimes surgeons (in this case techs) just do the best they can for their patient with what that have. Lot's of mediocre results here on this thread. Not horrible...no failures. But not amazing, that's for sure. I guess results are a strong word....most of this is not final results. Sit back and wait til a year and assess what is the issue. Could be think hair, not enough grafts, bad work, patient continuing to bald.
  8. Well, the red square really looks like the worst spot and if you look to the either side of it, while I am not counting, it looks like low 40's to me. I think low 40's is pretty good for where you are planting in bald areas on a first procedure.
  9. No, your hairline is perfect. Don't mess with it. It looks good and age perfect for your age. Why mess with it? Lowering it will not add anything to your looks from where it is. There are practical reasons mentioned not to lower it. But from just a cosmetic point of view I don't see any reason to lower it either. it's fine.
  10. You are only hearing what you want to hear man to feed your anxiety. Trust me, I have a touch of anxiety and can recognize it in how you are thinking on this...or overthinking. It looks like it is healing great and I said that. Of course you are going to have imperfect skin where it has just been cut a few days ago. Give your body time to heal. So yes, everything looks good and professionally done implant wise. Looks like good work other than the not looking like doing enough grafts to fill the area. But the surgical work and healing looks better than average actually. Honestly, I didn't shave my new hairline the first week...lol, so can't say if it looked like yours because at this stage me and everyone else has hairs sticking out of our pits. You have created a new way to view week old transplanted areas and sorry to say we just can't compare apples to peaches here. But yeah, looks good to me.
  11. Hey man. You are loosing it..lol. Obsessing while the woulds are still fresh and shaving and such isn't really normal. Catch yourself before you really loose it. I am not kidding. But PSA aside, looks to be healing really well. I had that chicken skin look on my temples too for a while after surgery. Think maybe 3 months. On one side it is still slightly visible if I use a magnifying mirror. But it's fine. At the end of the day I always wanted the option of shaving my head if hair loss got so bad HT couldn't fix it. I am not sure even with a well done FUE that will ever be an option now. Buzzed down to a few mm would probably work though. As you will see posted 1000000 times here. There i no such thing as scarless surgery.
  12. Good post. A few things to consider. Pics are deceiving. One patient or Dr. might take honest pictures, but in a light and angle that looks great. Another patient may have had a better result, but take pics that show the weaknesses. I know with my HT I can take honest pics that make my hair look full and great and in other pics I can show it's faults today a 5 months and looks terrible. That said look REALLY carefully at lots of results. I have come to the conclusion that pretty much any clinic that does HT ONLY and does it full time with a few years of experience will be posted about on here at least occasionally. And I have also concluded that actual HT techniques are fairly basic and most competent surgeons can provide good results on transplant regrowth. Therefore any doc you see discussed much on here is good. But some have very different senses of style. Some dense pack young hairlines, some fill just enough. They all have a ascetic they work towards. Find one who's eye matches yours. Turkey is a problem. Not because amazing work doesn't often come out of there. But they are technicians doing the work and the Dr. is basically managing the practice. So with most higher end operations where the Dr. does nearly all the work you know who actually has been producing the results they advertise. In Turkey, you have to hope the techs you get are great and it is a bit more of a crap shoot. A great value, but a little riskier. So having said that, if money were no option I would grab any of the top dozen or so practices where the Dr. does all the extractions himself and most of the implanting. You know what you are getting.....rather than hoping the Dr. has hired a good tech for your procedure. If money were no object I would have maybe Gabel do my front 1/2 to a nice density and still leave a bit in reserve. Then let Dr U in California fill the crown in with some body hair and never have to worry abut going bald. I was a NW5 and probably will be a 6. Reality is someone like me can't have a full head of hair with just the 6000 fu's in my donor area. But with unlimited funds. Any good FUE doc to do the front...and not a technician driven procedure. Then Dr U to work his magic on the crown. $50,000 for a full head of hair! Or go to turkey and "probably" get almost as good a job on the front and some filling in on the crown with body hair mixed in for under $10,000usd.
  13. 1800 is my best guess looking at it. But you will know more around month 8 and after you talk to a good doctor. Thinner temples and that natural transition in the front center will look fine and natural and I think something you will learn to like . You want to find the best plan that takes in all options. . HT is to restore some hair. Not to give you dreamy hair. But enough to make you not bald. Yes, I am sure it will cost you a bit test punching a few grafts. But a few months from now.....maybe 8, you will know how your scalp/forehead healed if you shave a small spot and that will tell you pretty much what your choices are moving forward. In the meanwhile, get used to wearing your hair forward and it will look fine like that so not too worry.
  14. Quite obsessing. That's what you are doing weather it seems rational or not to you. To us here who are not emotionally invested in it or looking at a strange look on our head this is what I see. Your hairline, the transplanted area anyhow is about twice as deep as it should have been give your age, facial structure, feelings and Density. Had they make it half as deep and by default, twice as dense, you would have had a really nice transplant. You are correct that the density is not natural and won't look good when fully grown in. If you want that hairline you will fully twice the density you have now. I will tell you something you may not want to hear. The implanted area on many many people doesn't heal as flawlessly as nothing even happened. Maybe you will get lucky and heel so flawlessly your forehead skin in the transplanted area looks virgin. But there is a very good chance it will be slightly different looking. Works fine even if there is think hair covering it. But it is surgery and not completely scarless often times. I don't see terrible work here from a functional point of view. You ultimately decided on your own hairline and that is more on you than the Dr. But he should have pushed you to go for a higher hairline. None of us were there so we will never know what actually transpired when that was decided. But what is done is done and you don't have a bad hairline now. You truly don't. Just not an ideal one considering all the factors. Moving forward; 1) Let it grow for 7-8 months. You really have no option there for at least a few months as the skin heels. Maybe after a while you can shave it. But if you wear your hair pushed forward the surgery you got will look fine and even with thin density won't look like a comb over. If that's a look you can dig, you are all set and take a year to digest what to do next. 2)Have hairline moved back. You would have to have a few .7mm punch tests done by a good doc to see if removing the hairs on your forehead is feasible. If after a few months there is ZERO scarring maybe you can have the first 1.5cm of hair removed and re-implanted farther back. I think this is unlikely. You would need perfect healing from this surgery to have a flawless forehead and then have no scaring with the graft removal. Other options are just killing the follicles by laser, electric or plucking for ages. 3)Have a 2nd transplant and fill in this new hairline to a respectable density. The most sure bet I think in having a good result. You don't need to fill right up to the front edge. With it low, a gentle transition from front edge to thicker would be appropriate and best. Maybe 1800 grafts would suffice. Then you would possibly still have enough in reserve to fill if you loose more hair. And that is the real risk here! Your new hairline is OK. Not unnatural, though you are not used to it yet. But it isn't unnatural. I just posted on someone here who had a HT with an already forward hairine and went way too low...looked awful and unnatural. You don't have that at all. You just need to get used to it and PRAY you don't loose a lot of hair over the next lifetime. At the end of the day what is is what is.. You decided on this hairline, you may very well have some minor scarring that might look odd if you try and remove all the new hair. You are not seeing your new hairline from a unemotional point of view. It really isn't bad, even if not 100% ideal. Best bet is to leave it for a year. Then fill in starting back about 1cm from the new hairline till it blends in with the old hairline on the top. Temple points look okay density wise. Yeah, it sucks....had the doc and you decided to do this less aggressive with that same number of grafts you would be in a great place as the workmanship is passable, but the artistry is not too good. As for the back. Yeah, he took too much from a small area with pretty specific boundaries. But again, wouldn't stress about it as I think when your hair get's to about 1/2 long back there it will be impossible to see. Overall it isn't anything to panic over. Some guys would love your hairline and be super excited..and looking forward to the 2nd fill in. You know what you want. But as a outisider who has never see your face before. You are just a guy who got a little to aggressive hairline, but not awful. The more aggressive side of acceptable in fact. No human being would look at your hair and think the low hairline looked weird. But it will need more grafts to look natural.
  15. I had almost no shedding on the temple points. Seems pretty common to not shed as much there. My theory is there is more blood flow in that area. Makes sense since I have read repeatedly that the back of the head is slower to regrow grafted hairs than the front because of less blood flow.