Dr. Feller on radio show debate with owner of Hairmax laser comb company

[Dr. Alan Feller]

On the night of October 7, 2007 Spencer Kobren hosted 2 very special guests on his radio program The Bald Truth. They were none other than the owner and the Chief Operating Officer of Lexington Industries Mr. David Michaels and Mr. Randy V. (I don't remember his last name).

 

A link of this show will be posted, but for now I believe one particular caller, whom I will paraphrase here from what Mr. Kobren told me, said it all:

 

"Mr. Michaels, I just want to say that the laser comb worked very well for me and that I am satisfied." When asked how it worked for him the caller replied..."it worked very well as a DOOR STOP!"

 

Clearly that was a crank caller, but I happen to agree with his observations.

 

My line of questioning was simple: where are the results? Where are the photos? With thousands of "satisfied customers" I would have expected hundreds of credbible before/after photos. Instead, all we get are weak and deceptive looking photos on the hairmax website.

 

I believe a crack in the keystone of their operation appeared this night, and I'm quite sure they regretted ever going on the show. Perhaps they will regret it even more when the show is played to the very reporters who brought their product to the public's attention in the first place.

 

Until tonight Mr. Michaels was only used to softball questions being lobbed by uninformed reporters. It became quickly obvious that neither lexington Ind. executives could field hard ball questions when they came from Kobren, myself, or even the lay callers. Pretty damning for a company making the claims they do.

 

My favorite line of the evening, and there were so many good ones, was when Mr. Michaels said "...who's to say what's cosmetically signficant?" Remember, this is coming from a man raking in millions of dollars selling a device that's supposed to grow a cosmetically signficiant amount of hair. The viewers of this site should go to the hairmax site and view their pitiful before/after photos and email them what YOU as INFORMED hairloss sufferers think is "cosmetically significant". You would think with all their suppossed data gathering they would have asked the market what THEY thought was "cosmetically significant". I can certainly tell Mr. Michaels what is NOT cosmetically signficiant by simply referencing him to his own website.

 

This whole laser hair growth industry is truly pitiful and the stench of it should be coming to the public's attention soon. Enough said for now. I certainly look forward to their reply on this forum. I will email a link of this thread to them, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a response any more than I did for sunnetix medical adviser Dr. Bauman.

 

Dr. Feller

[Dr. Alan Feller]

On the night of October 7, 2007 Spencer Kobren hosted 2 very special guests on his radio program The Bald Truth. They were none other than the owner and the Chief Operating Officer of Lexington Industries Mr. David Michaels and Mr. Randy V. (I don't remember his last name).

 

A link of this show will be posted, but for now I believe one particular caller, whom I will paraphrase here from what Mr. Kobren told me, said it all:

 

"Mr. Michaels, I just want to say that the laser comb worked very well for me and that I am satisfied." When asked how it worked for him the caller replied..."it worked very well as a DOOR STOP!"

 

Clearly that was a crank caller, but I happen to agree with his observations.

 

My line of questioning was simple: where are the results? Where are the photos? With thousands of "satisfied customers" I would have expected hundreds of credbible before/after photos. Instead, all we get are weak and deceptive looking photos on the hairmax website.

 

I believe a crack in the keystone of their operation appeared this night, and I'm quite sure they regretted ever going on the show. Perhaps they will regret it even more when the show is played to the very reporters who brought their product to the public's attention in the first place.

 

Until tonight Mr. Michaels was only used to softball questions being lobbed by uninformed reporters. It became quickly obvious that neither lexington Ind. executives could field hard ball questions when they came from Kobren, myself, or even the lay callers. Pretty damning for a company making the claims they do.

 

My favorite line of the evening, and there were so many good ones, was when Mr. Michaels said "...who's to say what's cosmetically signficant?" Remember, this is coming from a man raking in millions of dollars selling a device that's supposed to grow a cosmetically signficiant amount of hair. The viewers of this site should go to the hairmax site and view their pitiful before/after photos and email them what YOU as INFORMED hairloss sufferers think is "cosmetically significant". You would think with all their suppossed data gathering they would have asked the market what THEY thought was "cosmetically significant". I can certainly tell Mr. Michaels what is NOT cosmetically signficiant by simply referencing him to his own website.

 

This whole laser hair growth industry is truly pitiful and the stench of it should be coming to the public's attention soon. Enough said for now. I certainly look forward to their reply on this forum. I will email a link of this thread to them, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a response any more than I did for sunnetix medical adviser Dr. Bauman.

 

Dr. Feller

[notgoing2gobald]

Dr. Feller,

 

thank you for passing this along to everyone. Im somewhat familiar with Spenceer Kobren and the bald truth website. I have never heard the radio program. What are your thoughts on them? I ask because I noticed that their recommended doctors are much different than those on this forum, from what I recall anyway.

 

As far as the laser comb goes: there will always be some poor sucker out their who buys anything out of desperation. Its too bad, but Im glad your doing your part to help deflate their false hopes.

[blowdry]

I am sure any police department can buy the laser combs at at discount and convert them to Taser guns.......

 

The TASER X26 transmits electrical pulses along the wires and into the body affecting the sensory and motor functions of the peripheral nervous system. The energy can penetrate up to two cumulative inches of clothing, or one inch per probe.

[MrJobi]

Well done Dr Feller

 

We realize your fight for legit hairloss solutions is not your job, rather your passion for the industry.. Cheers to you for helping those of us out there looking for a cure to a BIG problem

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Notgoing:

Unfortunately I cannot answer that question in detail as it may be misinterpreted and might cause friciton between the two organizations themselves. What I can say is that I am proud to be a member of both groups and know that other doctors in one or both groups are equally proud and well served.

 

I look at these two organizations not just as groups that recommend doctors who TRULY practice excellence in HT, but also as an effective counterbalance against the larger chains whose deep pockets would squelch small independent HT doctors who have contributed so much to the advancement of the field.

 

Blowdry,

Remember, the laser combs are LOW Level, so the police won't get much power out of them. However, maybe they can shine the laser in the criminal's eyes and annoy him a bit until they get the cuff on him. Maybe we'll soon hear:

 

"Don't laser me, Bro"

 

Mrjb,

Thank you. I just can't stand these types of arrogant guys who try to make the public beleive that just because they have FDA clearance they can be disingenuous about the actual level of results their customers can realistically expect. Do you think anybody would buy such garbage if they REALLY knew what to expect from laser combs? When I asked Mr. Michaels what his qualifications were to hold himself out as an expert in hairloss and cell regeneration his unhesitating answer was "I was a patient in Australia". That was it! Sure, that qualifies him as a scientist. Slimey guy.

[nobuzz4me]

Dr. Feller,

 

Keep fighting the good fight. HT is the best solution available for restoring your hair - period. Those who rely on laser as a solution will be disappointed.

 

Don't laser me Bro. That is classic! Taser boy got what he asked for then cried like a little baby. Give those security guards a medal, instead they will likley be fired for doing their job.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

"DON'T LASER ME, BRO"

 

That's going to be my new catch pharse at the end of every post I make about low light laser therapy.

[tom thomas]

The taser boy got what he deserved, how dare he ask a long drawn out question of senator Kerry. This guy must think just because he is a student he has the right to ask questions. So what he paid to go to that school in Florida, and waited two hours to ask his question. So what if Kerry wanted to ans. the question, when the cops tell you to do sommething you better do it. This kid claims to be smart, he must not have learned his history about Hitler and the SS. How dare this stupid kid ask a question at his college and expect to get away with it. Those cops deserve a medal for trying to get him out of there as quickly as possible. We have to give up some rights, and do what ever the cops say so they can do their job. Protecting us from stupid people like the taser boy, should be job One. I only wish they tasered him a little longer.

[tom thomas]

Dr. Feller, I am glad those cops in florida were not around when you asked Mr. Michaels that pointed question, you may have gotten tazed. Please be more careful next time.

[blowdry]

With Dr. Feller, "The Spin Stops Here"!!!.Right Doc.

O'reilly has the "Don't Taze Me Bro" bumper stickers.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

blowdry,

You're right, that's where I got it from.

 

Thomas,

Not to get too off the subject but while Tazer boy was an idiot, he did not deserve to be Tazered. If we tazered every idiot who resisted arrest then we might as well build tazer's right into the hand cuffs. They already had him restrained and all they had to do was carry him out. That would have been the end of it.

 

Instead the cops were putting on a show for the cameras to show how it was THEY who were in charge not the kid with the big mouth. The cops were wrong and over did it.

 

The tazer was not designed as a convenience button for the cops in this particular instance and any decent human being whose been shocked with electricity would have to agree.

 

If he were stoned or drunk then MAYBE the tazer would have been called for, but not in this instance.

[blowdry]

The tazer was not designed as a convenience button just like abortion was not designed to be used as a means of birth control. I know the analogy is a bit of an overkill, but I just dosed with propecia, so the reply may have been medically induced..........

[tom thomas]

IT WAS SARCASIM

 

I know I am not a good writer, because that post was meant in the most sarcastic way possible. Back to writing 101 for me.

 

Hitler and the S.S. would love these over reacting taser cops. A free America is one in which the government is afraid of it's people, in Nazi Germany the people were afraid of their government.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

Thank you for the information. I'm sure it would have been entertaining to listen to this broadcast.

 

I think one thing we all have to keep in mind is that marketing, at best, over-reaches in order to sell a product. Putting marketing aside for a moment (if possible), the real question for any hair loss sufferer is...will this product or any product that uses laser therapy be able to combat hair loss or be able to regrow hair at all?

 

Often Propecia and Rogaine don't make cosmeticly significant improvements, yet they are known at least to help slow down or stop hair loss.

 

Don't get me wrong...

 

I'm not arguing that laser therapy works...

 

I'm only arguing that we shouldn't be looking to see if this is a miracle product (sorry for those who believe it is....it isn't), but whether the product has any level of efficacy.

 

But that being said...I agree with Dr. Feller. Without visual proof, claims are meaningless.

 

I narrow it down to a few possibilities:

 

1. Laser therapy has no level of efficacy and it's a big scam

2. It's only been FDA approved for a short time so there hasn't been enough time for the visual proof to appear on the internet.

 

Of course, we have to consider that laser technology has been around for a long time prior to FDA approval.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bill,

When you listen to the show you will have a much better idea as to what laser combs are all about.

 

Unfortunately you can not call laser combs a scam because, for better or worse, they were FDA cleared and they did provide some cursory evidence of efficacy. I for one don't believe the studies one bit, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion.

 

I do, however, believe that these devices will not give the customer a cosmetically significant improvement in their hair and I believe Mr Michaels knows this. This is why his website photos appear to be deceptive and why he never performed a market study to learn what the public REALLY thinks of the efficacy of his product. In fact, such a study is the very LAST thing he wants. He can only rely on anecdotal evidence because when the public truly expresses it's opinion he gets creamed, which is what happened on the show last night.

 

Mr Michaels is not a scammer, but he is slimey, disingenuous, and real smooth. I also believe he takes advantage of the public by throwing everything in the face of desperate people except what they REALLY need to see, which is cosmetically signficiant RESULTS.

 

Speaking of RESULTS, don't think for one second that the laser industry hasn't had time to rack up results. Even Mr. Michaels said lasers have been used for hair loss since the 1980s and that 10,000 people were treated in Australia with a 93% satisfaction rate. With SO many people "treated" where the heck are the results? Mr. Michaels didn't have an answer for that question and the way he avoided answering it will make any rational person feel they've been insulted by his evasivness.

 

Dr. Feller

"DON'T LASER ME,BRO"

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dr. Feller,

 

I do, however, believe that these devices will not give the customer a cosmetically significant improvement in their hair

 

I agree with this statement. Of course, one can also argue that Propecia and Rogaine RARELY if EVER create a "cosmetically significant improvement" in their hair.

 

I don't want to come off like I'm promoting lasers here, because I continue to stand by the evidence that there is...well...no evidence!

 

If laser therapy works at all, even a little bit, certainly public information should be available. Yet, all I've ever seen publicly (other than by the companies that have financial interest in the product) are disappointments with laser therapy.

 

Unfortunately, many hair loss sufferer's expectations became way too high thanks to marketing. This is not specific of laser therapy either...this is just...marketing!

 

Joe Tillman posted some great information about the marketing of laser technology that I have turned into a hair loss Q&A blog. For those who missed it, click here.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

The fact that there is minimal causation data about lasercomb is its key downnfall.. There just isnt the proof which should be available

 

As far as I am concerned , it just doesnt work..Trust me, if it did , even a little, I would get one

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Don't fall into the trap of comparing laser comb to FDA APPROVED products like Propecia. It is way OVER generous to compare the two and only gives undeserved credibility to laser combs by ASSOCIATION.

 

Laser combs should be able to stand on their own without refrence to completely different hair regrowth methods.

 

Besides, do two wrongs make a right?

 

Dr. Feller

"DON'T LASER ME,BRO"

[Guest wanthairs]

Wait guys.....

 

Im living proof the laser comb works. I used it for two monthssatrting March of 07 and stopped. I have significant amounts of hair regrowing in my front and mid.

 

Oh hang on, I forgot, I also had a transplant in the meantime....Oh well, thought Id try.....

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Wanthairs,

You are making a joke, but unfortunately several of the laser doctors out there are treating their patients with a mixture of propecia, minoxidil, hair transplants, and laser therapy. They call this "combination therapy". And while I do believe combining propecia and even minoxidil with HT IS a good idea, including supposed "laser treatments" at THOUSANDS of dollars out of the patient's pocket is opportunisitic in my opinion.

[Al - Moderator]

There are two categories of laser useage. First is the laser lamp at the doctors office. Second is the laser comb you use at home. We need to seperate the two, but first let's look at something else.

 

Suppose we look at Rogaine/minoxidil. I think most people here will agree that Rogaine has at least some growth effect on many people.

 

Suppose we have 2 groups of people. Group A visits the Dr twice a week for him to apply Rogaine to their heads at $125 a visit. Group B buys Rogaine at Walmart and applies it themselves every day. Do you think Group A is going to get anywhere near the same level of results that Group B gets? No! A person in Group A will spend $1000 a month for no results because Rogaine needs to be used daily for effectiveness. Do you think the Dr will be able to show results that it works on any of his patients? No! Of course not. According to Dr Feller this would prove that Rogaine doesn't work.

 

While Dr Feller is busy announcing that he has proved that Rogaine will never work, Group B is happily using Rogaine every day and maybe 80% are getting noticeable growth. Dr Feller says these don't count because word of mouth and a few individual people's photos don't prove anything because there could be lighting issues and what ever else.

 

Now go back and replace Rogaine with lasers.

 

I agree 100% that it is a total waste of time and money to have a laser lamp on your head at a Drs office twice a week. If you read and listen to what patients and laser users have actually said you'll see that almost every one of the people who went to a Dr a few times a month say the Dr visits were a waste and a rip off. However there's a lot of people who have tried laser combs that say they have worked, including myself.

 

EDIT: Wanted to add that I do not sell laser combs or make any money from them. I am simply a laser brush user who is seeing hair growth. I use it every single day for about 8 to 10 minutes just after my hair has dried after taking a shower.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I agree 100% that it is a total waste of time and money to have a laser lamp on your head at a Drs office twice a week.

 

This is exactly one of the points I was trying to make about the marketing of laser therapy (which was first discussed by JoTronic - link earlier in the thread).

 

As I stated before...there is a clear difference in promoting laser therapy as a means to create a "significant cosmetic improvement" or "means to help combat hair loss".

 

I think for the purpose of discussion, we MUST define what we are talking about. I believe Dr. Feller in THIS post is addressing those who claim the former in that it creates a "significant cosmetic improvement". I feel strongly that this claim is preposterous because even Propecia and Rogaine can't claim that in the majority of cases.

 

Does it work at all? I'm not convinced. Where do I stand? I won't recommend laser therapy as a hair loss treatment until there is enough credible evidence to support that it works.

 

This includes visual proof and evidence on real laser therapy patients (whether via lasercomb or treatment in a doctor's office).

 

Bill

[FacelessMan]

"Laser? I hardly know 'er..."

 

Thanks, Dr. Feller, for speaking the truth to power...er, to charlatans...! Your respect for truth, and your sincerity, are a huge part of what got me into your (battered blue/black) chair.

[giants]

On of our members BeHappy recently posted that he has recieved excellend results not from the hairmax but from a different laser therapy. Id be interested to hear his input.