Dr Vinita | Eugenix | 5,530 grafts (1,776 BHT)

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Sorry to say this OP, but you were/are not a good candidate for surgery and should have been turned away by Eugenix. I think most reputable clinics would have not accepted you as a patient.

Some peoples balding is so aggressive that they don't really have a "safe donor zone". Or if they do it's so small that even when combined with beard hair there simply isn't enough grafts available to really provide a real aesthetic benefit that will last long term. You also seem to have a wide head which means the area you need to cover is larger than someone with a smaller head. Eugenix also seem to have extracted scalp grafts from well below your "safe area" (This is something that seems to be common with them) and to me this area looks very prone to miniaturization so all of the grafts taken from their will probably miniaturize over time.

What's done is done and I don't say this to be negative, but I think you deserve to hear the truth (At least as far as I see it). I think you have realistic expectations and that's good, but I'm afraid that you don't have enough donor supply to even go in for a "second session". People in this thread keep saying "you'll need a second session" but they seem to be forgetting that you already have had 2 HT's so that in combination with what was already a compromised donor is not a great sign. 

I don’t believe this is fair to say, there’s more than enough cases here similar to his that have been successful. @Gatsbywas essentially the same. 
 

This hair looks very healthy 

I know you’re not a fan of this clinic, which is fine. But I think fair is fair. 

@Bandit90 looked essentially the same. I think there are certainly cases that should be turned away like this patient. 

But OP has some healthy donor and good quality beard. He isn’t someone I would say is not a candidate. 

[JC90]

@Melvin- Admin I think everyone will have their own opinion and I will always be open to hear it.

I feel level of hair loss and colour of @Bandit90 is what inspired me to go to Eugenix after seeing his results and I know my beard is not as good as @Bandit90. I have a very open mind on my results and surely it cannot be as bad as my first transplant and I am confident the tools and techniques used have improved since 2014. 

 

Ill keep everyone updated on my journey and in 10-12 months time we can look back on these first messages. I am obviously aware of the gap from my donor area and recipient area and I will keep an eye on this. I appreciate everyones feedback. Update you all in the coming months.  

Edited May 22 by JC90

[Fox243]

10 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I don’t believe this is fair to say, there’s more than enough cases here similar to his that have been successful. @Gatsbywas essentially the same. 
 

This hair looks very healthy 

I know you’re not a fan of this clinic, which is fine. But I think fair is fair. 

@Bandit90 looked essentially the same. I think there are certainly cases that should be turned away like this patient. 

But OP has some healthy donor and good quality beard. He isn’t someone I would say is not a candidate. 

I'd also add that the patient already has had an FUT. It could be different if the patient hadn't had a procedure before, but because he's already 34 and has a strip scar, I think a procedure is perfectly fine.

[GeneralNorwood]

34 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

That’s why there’s only two doctors in the world doing 10-12k grafts in one day. 

I think you meant 10-12k grafts surgeries in one master plan. 

Because Zarev do this kind of surgery in 2 days and one year later 2 more days, so it's total 4 days. 

And Pittella needs 2 days, but he usually uses beard grafts, so his approach is different. 

 

[Stewie]

This looks really good and will be interesting to see how it goes, looks like they got some good general density throughout, I hope it all grows well for you, the donor though it has the FUT scar all looks thick and healthy still

[GeneralNorwood]

19 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I don’t believe this is fair to say, there’s more than enough cases here similar to his that have been successful. @Gatsbywas essentially the same. 
 

This hair looks very healthy 

I know you’re not a fan of this clinic, which is fine. But I think fair is fair. 

@Bandit90 looked essentially the same. I think there are certainly cases that should be turned away like this patient. 

 

But John didn't have FUT with 2500 grafts taken away, that's the main difference. And he has more dense beard. 

So for sure OP shouldn't go so aggressive with his plan like John

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

I think you meant 10-12k grafts surgeries in one master plan. 

Because Zarev do this kind of surgery in 2 days and one year later 2 more days, so it's total 4 days. 

And Pittella needs 2 days, but he usually uses beard grafts, so his approach is different. 

 

Correct, I meant one surgery, which can be done in consecutive days. 

[JC90]

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

But John didn't have FUT with 2500 grafts taken away, that's the main difference. And he has more dense beard. 

So for sure OP shouldn't go so aggressive with his plan like John

@GeneralNorwood its why I didn't have my temples done, I didn't lower the hairline as I don't mind having higher hairline and my temples not being like I am in my twenties, I wanted and knew I would need all the grafts I could get for ontop and the crown. 

[Melvin- Admin]

9 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

But John didn't have FUT with 2500 grafts taken away, that's the main difference. And he has more dense beard. 

So for sure OP shouldn't go so aggressive with his plan like John

I agree. OP should not have an aggressive hairline. The placement of his hairline is perfect. I would focus the subsequent surgery on the crown and overall density. I think this is going to be a good result. I believe this should be more of the standard set forth by the clinic. Aggressive hairlines and temple peaks should not be done on the first go with Norwood 7s. That said, John looks freaking amazing, it worked out splendidly for him.

[Bandit90]

Think we need to relax with the hindsight criticisms, OP surgery is complete, so let the proof be in the pudding. OP's case is very similar to @garcimore75 whom I had a call with earlier this year after his second sitting and trust me he is looking killer. The criticisms by some posters are a tad overboard here. Let's just use a ‘wait & see’ approach, rather than cause a tonne of undue stress to the OP who has just had surgery. If we keep going this hard on patients who have just had surgery, we are just going to put off posters from sharing their journeys. 

 

Edited May 22 by Bandit90

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I don’t believe this is fair to say, there’s more than enough cases here similar to his that have been successful. @Gatsbywas essentially the same. 
 

This hair looks very healthy 

I know you’re not a fan of this clinic, which is fine. But I think fair is fair. 

@Bandit90 looked essentially the same. I think there are certainly cases that should be turned away like this patient. 

But OP has some healthy donor and good quality beard. He isn’t someone I would say is not a candidate. 

In OP's pics you can see that the clinic extracted scalp grafts from below his FUT scar in an area that is miniaturizing. Any time a clinic says "Oh ya you're a candidate" and then immediately starts harvesting grafts from what is at best a questionable area, I think that speaks to the fact that they were not a candidate to begin with. I've seen this in other Eugenix cases where they harvest grafts from what areas that are clearly quite miniaturized. If I had gotten back from my HT and noticed a ton of grafts were taken from areas where I have retrograde alopecia, I would've been apoplectic. 

[Bandit90]

15 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

In OP's pics you can see that the clinic extracted scalp grafts from below his FUT scar in an area that is miniaturizing. Any time a clinic says "Oh ya you're a candidate" and then immediately starts harvesting grafts from what is at best a questionable area, I think that speaks to the fact that they were not a candidate to begin with. I've seen this in other Eugenix cases where they harvest grafts from what areas that are clearly quite miniaturized. If I had gotten back from my HT and noticed a ton of grafts were taken from areas where I have retrograde alopecia, I would've been apoplectic. 

This type of analysis right now isn't necessary nor helpful. As the OP begins to document his journey, there will be lots of scope for analysis. it's evident you really don't like the clinic which is fine, but i've been following your posts in recent months and you do tend to go in quite hard at the clinic (again is completely fine - its your opinion). But I would just be mindful  to avoid causing the OP any undue stress, as he is fresh out of surgery. 

Edited May 22 by Bandit90

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

In OP's pics you can see that the clinic extracted scalp grafts from below his FUT scar in an area that is miniaturizing. Any time a clinic says "Oh ya you're a candidate" and then immediately starts harvesting grafts from what is at best a questionable area, I think that speaks to the fact that they were not a candidate to begin with. I've seen this in other Eugenix cases where they harvest grafts from what areas that are clearly quite miniaturized. If I had gotten back from my HT and noticed a ton of grafts were taken from areas where I have retrograde alopecia, I would've been apoplectic. 

I have to push back on this, speaking as a Norwood 6/7 that heard the same thing about my case.

Retrograde alopecia doesn’t exclude you from being a candidate, the hair can change with medication. I’ve witnessed this myself. I’ve had grafts removed from my nape, which prior to meds looked weak. Now after meds, my nape looks better even after harvesting. I had my first HT 10 years ago, and my hair hasn’t changed, and has gotten better. OP is on medication, as long as he stays with it, I don’t think he will be any different.


 

I feel you’re saying this to attack the clinic, but the person who’s gonna feel unnecessary stress from this is the patient, not the clinic. I respect your opinion. But I will agree to disagree here.

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 minute ago, Bandit90 said:

This type of analysis right now isn't necessary nor helpful. As the OP begins to document his journey, there will be lots of scope for analysis. it's evident you really don't like the clinic which is fine, but i've been following your posts in recent months and you do go in quite hard towards this clinic again which is fine. I just want to avoid causing the OP any undue stress. 

Well, it's a question of what is the point of these threads and what is the point of this entire forum to begin with. Is the point that we're supposed to offer our honest opinions, feedbacks, and criticisms in a polite way so that others can learn about best practices in the HT industry? Or is the point to glad-hand each other to the degree that we bite our tongues when we see a clinic demonstrably behaving in a way that makes it clear they prioritize profits over patients? 

I'm willing to be passive-aggressively bullied into silence, so I wont post on this thread anymore. But I would like to hear from @Eugenix Hair Sciences what their thinking was when they extracted grafts from an area that is clearly undergoing significant miniaturization. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I have to push back on this, speaking as a Norwood 6/7 that heard the same thing about my case.

Retrograde alopecia doesn’t exclude you from being a candidate, the hair can change with medication. I’ve witnessed this myself. I’ve had grafts removed from my nape, which prior to meds looked weak. Now after meds, my nape looks better even after harvesting. I had my first HT 10 years ago, and my hair hasn’t changed, and has gotten better. OP is on medication, as long as he stays with it, I don’t think he will be any different.


 

I feel you’re saying this to attack the clinic, but the person who’s gonna feel unnecessary stress from this is the patient, not the clinic. I respect your opinion. But I will agree to disagree here.

Ok, this really will be my last post in this thread.

 

The difference Melvin between the two cases is that your retrograde alopecia improved after taking meds. OP has already been on meds for 3 years he said, so the comparison isn't valid. Is the idea that 3 years into meds this area is going to bounce back from him in a way that it didn't bounce back in the first 3 years? 

[Bandit90]

11 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Well, it's a question of what is the point of these threads and what is the point of this entire forum to begin with. Is the point that we're supposed to offer our honest opinions, feedbacks, and criticisms in a polite way so that others can learn about best practices in the HT industry? Or is the point to glad-hand each other to the degree that we bite our tongues when we see a clinic demonstrably behaving in a way that makes it clear they prioritize profits over patients? 

I'm willing to be passive-aggressively bullied into silence, so I wont post on this thread anymore. But I would like to hear from @Eugenix Hair Sciences what their thinking was when they extracted grafts from an area that is clearly undergoing significant miniaturization. 

Your missing my point, I don't want you silenced! all i'm is saying let the OP's journey unfold, as it's just theoretical analysis at the moment as he is three days out of surgery. By month 6/7 with the pictures the analysis will just be so much more purposeful. 

Edited May 22 by Bandit90

[JC90]

4 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Ok, this really will be my last post in this thread.

 

The difference Melvin between the two cases is that your retrograde alopecia improved after taking meds. OP has already been on meds for 3 years he said, so the comparison isn't valid. Is the idea that 3 years into meds this area is going to bounce back from him in a way that it didn't bounce back in the first 3 years? 

@GoliGoliGoli I appreciate everyone’s feedback (positive and negative) it was @Bandit90 & @Stewie experiences I saw on here that gave me the Confidence that even with previous poor HT and/or blonde hair with extensive hair loss great results can happen. 
 

im not expecting the same results from this surgery and know if possible more surgeries would be needed however it will surely be an improvement than what I had before. 
 

As I’ve said I’ve been on finasteride solidly for 2-3 years (I don’t think it’s over 3 years) however I feel my donor area has improved with my crown improving slightly however nothing to rave about and that’s fine. 
 

I’d more than happily have your feedback or told you so  when I’m at the 10+ month mark. 

[donpizmeov]

Good luck with your recovery. It will be interesting to follow. I am super pleased you resisted the typical Eugenix approach with the temporal peaks, because it often have been on expense of density in the top on many NW6/7. Well done and all the best, keep us updated 

Edited May 22 by donpizmeov

[bigmistake]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:56 PM, Melvin- Admin said:

I have to push back on this, speaking as a Norwood 6/7 that heard the same thing about my case.

Retrograde alopecia doesn’t exclude you from being a candidate, the hair can change with medication. I’ve witnessed this myself. I’ve had grafts removed from my nape, which prior to meds looked weak. Now after meds, my nape looks better even after harvesting. I had my first HT 10 years ago, and my hair hasn’t changed, and has gotten better. OP is on medication, as long as he stays with it, I don’t think he will be any different.


 

I feel you’re saying this to attack the clinic, but the person who’s gonna feel unnecessary stress from this is the patient, not the clinic. I respect your opinion. But I will agree to disagree here.

What is your medication regime ?

[Al - Moderator]

I think it was a good idea to keep the hair line high and not do temple points. The goal for this surgery needed to be to get the top covered and forget about the niceties that you'd like to have if you had more donor to work with, so I'm glad you were smart enough to do that. That's going to give you a better chance of getting a good result. You also used 1776 beard grafts, so I don't think they were too aggressive with using up scalp donor.

It's easy for someone who isn't in the situation to just tell someone else they shouldn't do it or they aren't a candidate. You never know what someone else is going through especially if they are already dealing with scars from a previous hair transplant. It's not like they can just shave clean and be done with it. The scars are still there. I always find it interesting that someone who gets a hair transplant when they are a NW 2 through NW 4 because they felt they needed more hair and were afraid to go out without a hat or it was ruining their life or whatever then tells someone with less hair that they shouldn't do it and just shave it off or just forget about a hair transplant. Obviously there are a few people who truly are not candidates, but these days if you have a lot of body hair you most likely can improve your situation even if you don't get a full head of hair.

 

[JC90]

3 minutes ago, Al - Moderator said:

I think it was a good idea to keep the hair line high and not do temple points. The goal for this surgery needed to be to get the top covered and forget about the niceties that you'd like to have if you had more donor to work with, so I'm glad you were smart enough to do that. That's going to give you a better chance of getting a good result. You also used 1776 beard grafts, so I don't think they were too aggressive with using up scalp donor.

It's easy for someone who isn't in the situation to just tell someone else they shouldn't do it or they aren't a candidate. You never know what someone else is going through especially if they are already dealing with scars from a previous hair transplant. It's not like they can just shave clean and be done with it. The scars are still there. I always find it interesting that someone who gets a hair transplant when they are a NW 2 through NW 4 because they felt they needed more hair and were afraid to go out without a hat or it was ruining their life or whatever  then tells someone who has less hair than they had that they should do it and just shave it off or just forget about a hair transplant. Obviously there are a few people who truly are not candidates, but these days if you have a lot of body hair you most likely can improve your situation even if you don't get a full head of hair.

 

@Al - Moderator I am really looking forward to how my donor area heals and then seeing the full results to then see if another procedure is possible. Going into this after a failed FUT in 2014 - I nearly didn't bother with the procedure at all as I just shaved my head. What bothered me most is if I didn't get another procedure done then it makes my first procedure completely pointless and £5.5k down the drain. 

[JC90]

31 minutes ago, bigmistake said:

What is your medication regime ?

@bigmistake Pre Op - 1mg Finasteride daily / 5mg Minoxidil (foam) twice daily / Daily Multivitamin 

I got oral minoxidil which I havent started taking yet and will start taking with caution - I will swap this in for the foam. 

[Rawkerboi]

I am just here to wish you the best!

You just had a big procedure and now you need to heal well.

Keep the update's flowing

[GoliGoliGoli]

9 hours ago, Al - Moderator said:

It's easy for someone who isn't in the situation to just tell someone else they shouldn't do it or they aren't a candidate.

Conversely, it's easy for someone who is a moderator of a forum that is compensated by a clinic known for unethical practices AND taking on 'high risk' cases to say "Almost everyone is a candidate!". The difference is, I have no financial incentive or conflict of interest in what I say. I'm not saying you don't believe what you say, or that you personally are compensated in your role as moderator, but Melvin is, and because of that there is a conflict of interest on your parts but not mine. 

Look, they tried to talk OP into lowering his hairline and getting temple points even though it's blatantly obvious that was not in his interest...... In sales this is called an "upsell". In medicine this is called "negligence". Eugenix is incentivized to get the patient to agree to extract as many grafts as possible, regardless of whether or not they take them from areas that are miniaturizing. Just calling a spade a spade. 

Edited May 24 by GoliGoliGoli

[Melvin- Admin]

32 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Conversely, it's easy for someone who is a moderator of a forum that is compensated by a clinic known for unethical practices to say "Everyone is a candidate!". The difference is, I have no financial incentive or conflict of interest in what I say. I'm not saying you don't believe what you say, or that you personally are compensated in your role, but Melvin is, and because of that there is a conflict of interest on your parts but not mine. 

Look, they tried to talk OP into lowering his hairline and getting temple points even though it's blatantly obvious that was not in his interest...... In sales this is called an "upsell". Eugenix is incentivized to get the patient to agree to extract as many grafts as possible, regardless of whether or not they take them from areas that are miniaturizing. Just calling a spade a spade. 

Others have chimed in, not just me. I am paid, if you believe that makes my opinion or remarks worthless, okay fair enough that’s your opinion. But Al is a Norwood 7, above that he’s a true repair patient who was butchered in the 80s. He’s someone who has heard “you’re not a candidate” so he empathizes with this patient, which isn’t something you can do because you’re not in that situation. I believe he’s very qualified and unbiased in speaking his mind and sharing his opinion on this particular matter.

You’ve made it very clear you think Eugenix is a hair mill, unethical, have poor results, and are one of the worst clinics in your opinion. All of that is totally fine. I believe there’s absolutely room criticism of Eugenix, and every other clinic because everyone has poor cases. You’re using this patient as an attack vector, disregarding how posting something like this may affect him personally. Essentially, he’s collateral damage to get your message across about this clinic and their “unethical” ways. 

You’ve asserted yourself as an authority to tell other users whether they are candidates or not. When someone challenges you on this, you’re dismissive because they moderate the community. This is like an appeal to neutrality, listen to me because I’m neutral, so what im saying is right. I don’t believe that’s fair or right. I would recommend anyone reading this forum should use critical thinking. Do not take my word for anything just because im an admin. Being an authority doesn’t make you right. Conversely, being a neutral user doesn’t mean you’re right either. Look at the crux of the argument and not the individual.