Verteporfin HAIR REGENERATION HUMAN TRIAL Dr. Barghouthi *OFFICIAL THREAD

[Square1]

52 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

There are companies who want to make money on these drugs, there is no such company that can make a lot of money on verteporfin. Even if we didn't have Dr. Barghouthis results, Harvard guys did very successful Red Duroc trial which is closest to human skin and filed patents for scarless healing and hair regeneration. That alone should be enough for believing in Vert. These guys have incomparably more knowledge and understanding about skin and scarring. 
Most surgeons are in comfort zone and make good money, so they have no need to add something new and risky.

The science as well as the preliminary results are promising indeed. That is why it surprises me that there are few docs trying it out. Maybe not the top guys, but the lesser known surgeons in the West or in countries like Turkey and India have a lot to gain by perfecting this method. I think. 

[Square1]

19 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

Now HMI-115 is the big deal there

 

it appears to be another disappointment, kevin mann recently made a video about it

Exactly, there are lively discussions on all those treatments that are bound to fail, but as far as I see, there is no talk about vp. 

Are they just unaware / stupid or do they see things we don't?

[DrTBarghouthi]

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

[David149]

8 minutes ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

Thank you @DrTBarghouthi for all the work and progress you have done so far. I am just wondering if you will be trying micro needling+ verteporfin?

I think a group have already tried it with 1.5mm-2mm and it didn’t work, I don’t think that was enough trauma. 

Edited January 29 by David149

[takuma]

14 minutes ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

Thank you so much Dr Bargouthi @DrTBarghouthi....I have a question regarding the second trial patient , will you be injecting the bald area of their scalp with or without wounding it first via incisions, or punches, microneedling, etc. Because from my understanding of the mechanism of the drug is that it works by healing wounds without scars and with that as a result comes back normal skin with hair follicles and sweat glands, so if there isn't a significant depth wound, then it may not make any difference if verteporfin was injected there.

Edited January 29 by takuma

[Nikoni]

13 minutes ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

Thank you doctor. Happy to see the things are moving forward.

Are you planning also existing FUE scars revision trial after these two ? Should be relatively easier trial to do and well demanded.

[Odysseus]

Someone else in this thread suggested that there is no downside to doctors offering Verteprofin right now, since we know it won't do any harm and might do some good. No one replied. Any idea why Verteporfin isn't currently being offered as an optional add-on to HTs by doctors? HT doctors certainly jumped on the Acell bandwagon when it first appeared years ago and they are still on it. If it weren't too expensive, I would definitely gamble on Verteporfin in my upcoming HT procedure.  

 

[Reecee]

8 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

Thanks for your efforts on this

[bigmistake]

15 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

This is good news, really excited about injecting verteporfin into the bald scalp. It may become a replacement to finasteride. Key word is "may". How many patients have you tried verteporfin on now ? Has any of these patients been 12 months + post OP.

[MrFox]

16 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

I do understand the frustration of the ongoing delays and I just want to reassure you that such delays were beyond anyone’s control. 

We did have multiple issues with suitable volunteers in terms of their availability and follow up potential, as well as the ongoing issue of making sure that we have a reliable and constant supply of the medication. In addition to that, it did take us some time to arrange and purchase any missing equipment that we need for a more objective study. It is important at this stage to carry out decent trials - for purposes of being objective and as scientific as possible. 

Having said that, there has been steady progress taking place in the background. We do have two volunteers. One Volunteer will have a full FUE with Verteforfin, while the other one will have Verteporfin injected in the bald areas of his scalp to see if there could be any potential improvement or growth. We have also managed to engage with a suitable supplier that can provide us with Verteporfin. I am placing a test order with them in these coming days to make sure their process is smooth. We have also received the photography device we need for research. I have booked two dates for these two trials- but I will refrain from mentioning the exact dates so as not to cause any further disappointment for now. 

Finally, I have seen some nice recovery photos from our FUE patient who had his donor fully injected with Verteporfin after 2-3 months ago, and his donor is looking good. I will check with him if he wishes for his photos to be shared. 

Will there be wounding in the balding area? Similar to recipient-size wounds? 

[TV_on_LazerDisk]

11 hours ago, MrFox said:

Will there be wounding in the balding area? Similar to recipient-size wounds? 

https://srginstruments.com/introduction/

 

Someone on the vert group mentioned this @DrTBarghouthi

[Jonathan]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:10 PM, Square1 said:

All this time, I get the feeling that I / we miss something very obvious. The guys over at hairlosstalk are very involved in the hairloss industry, but are not talking about vert at all. They were however all over all kinds of either obvious scams or possibly legit projects that would however take at least 10/15 to commercialize such as Brotzu, Sheseido, Tsuji, Stemson etc.etc. Now HMI-115 is the big deal there. I havent followed it very closely, but in terms of potential, it doesn't seem to come close to vp. 

Given the results that dr. Barghouthi has shown, I would expect everybody in this space to focus on vp. Despite some interest of docs and of course the trials of dr. Bloxham, there doesn't seem to be that much happening. I would expect much more young and ambitious docs to try this stuff, but dr. Bloxham is so far the only one who did. And for him and dr. Barghouthi , it doesn't seem to be a topic that is that important.

Could it be that we are overblowing the results? Maybe we miss something that makes dr. Barghouthi's pics less impressive? Maybe the higher density in the test area has other reasons than vp? It is an optical illusion that others see through but we don't?

 

You’re missing one big thing, a lot of those guys are delusional, and want some type of chemical that will turn them from Norwood to 7 just applying daily, which I don’t think (mostly due to regulations like fda). Were at least somewhat less delusional and know that the cure might be something expensive like 5-10 hair transplants over and over. Sounds terrible and only the top 2-5% of earners can afford it, but to me it’s better than having no alternative.

[TV_on_LazerDisk]

14 hours ago, Jonathan said:

You’re missing one big thing, a lot of those guys are delusional, and want some type of chemical that will turn them from Norwood to 7 just applying daily, which I don’t think (mostly due to regulations like fda). Were at least somewhat less delusional and know that the cure might be something expensive like 5-10 hair transplants over and over. Sounds terrible and only the top 2-5% of earners can afford it, but to me it’s better than having no alternative.

I mean that would mean perpetual recovery time, that many HTs. 

 

You'd never get to enjoy your new hair haha

[Dragonsphere]

14 hours ago, Jonathan said:

You’re missing one big thing, a lot of those guys are delusional, and want some type of chemical that will turn them from Norwood to 7 just applying daily, which I don’t think (mostly due to regulations like fda). Were at least somewhat less delusional and know that the cure might be something expensive like 5-10 hair transplants over and over. Sounds terrible and only the top 2-5% of earners can afford it, but to me it’s better than having no alternative.

I think it depends on one's situation. If you are a Noorwood 1-2 and looking to maintain, would you have that much interest in Verteporfin? 

Doctors will be interested when they know it works as it would an incredible money maker. 

A 2000 FUE with a conservative hairline could turn into a 4000 temple filled Noorwood 1. 

We just need more results and empirical evidence. 

 

[Square1]

15 hours ago, Jonathan said:

You’re missing one big thing, a lot of those guys are delusional, and want some type of chemical that will turn them from Norwood to 7 just applying daily, which I don’t think (mostly due to regulations like fda). Were at least somewhat less delusional and know that the cure might be something expensive like 5-10 hair transplants over and over. Sounds terrible and only the top 2-5% of earners can afford it, but to me it’s better than having no alternative.

While I do agree with your assessment of the general vibe of that forum, they were over stuff like Stemson and Tsuji as well. Experimental research that has basically never shown any results yet, has to be tested rigorously for safety and faces years and years getting approved and even if that would all happen, easily will cost as much as an average house. Yet, what I can see, no discussion on vp. Maybe it has taken place but it is not prominent at all, while vp would be much more affordable way sooner with a higher likelihood that it will even happen. 

So even if you are into fairytales and wonderpills, vp comes closer than the stuff they obsess about. But maybe you are right, hard to tell at this point. 

[Melvin- Admin]

@DrTBarghouthiYou’re keeping the hope alive. I believe your research is the key to entice more surgeons to try this novel treatment. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of compelling data except for yours and the Stanford research. 

[Nikoni]

Just now, Melvin- Admin said:

@DrTBarghouthiYou’re keeping the hope alive. I believe your research is the key to entice more surgeons to try this novel treatment. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of compelling data except for yours and the Stanford research. 

hi @Melvin- Admin, any updates on Dr. Mohebi trials ?

[Melvin- Admin]

20 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

hi @Melvin- Admin, any updates on Dr. Mohebi trials ?

I’m gonna reach out to him again. I was hoping to share some interesting developments with him. But the developments so far haven’t been impressive 🙁 so im hoping Dr. Barghouthi can share some interesting updates that I can share. 

[Nikoni]

25 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I’m gonna reach out to him again. I was hoping to share some interesting developments with him. But the developments so far haven’t been impressive 🙁 so im hoping Dr. Barghouthi can share some interesting updates that I can share. 

yeah, Dr. Bloxham's updates weren't that impressive so far but also it was not the the worst case. No sides, some hair and better looking skin without scar formation yet. Hopefully soon he will show 6 months results which may be more encouraging. 

Even if Dr. Barghouthi does trial tomorrow, we are months away from seeing the first promising results.

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, Nikoni said:

yeah, Dr. Bloxham's updates weren't that impressive so far but also it was not the the worst case. No sides, some hair and better looking skin without scar formation yet. Hopefully soon he will show 6 months results which may be more encouraging. 

Even if Dr. Barghouthi does trial tomorrow, we are months away from seeing the first promising results.

If you’re going to ask a surgeon to spend their own money to perform research, there better be something good to show. Otherwise, there is no incentive. Remember, they’re not making any money and In fact they lose money. 

[sansi]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

If you’re going to ask a surgeon to spend their own money to perform research, there better be something good to show. Otherwise, there is no incentive. Remember, they’re not making any money and In fact they lose money. 

If doctors don't do trials, there wouldn't be anything good to show. That's way its very important to have enthusiasts like Dr. Barghouthi.

However, didn't Dr. Mohebi agree to do trials ? He said something like "we owe this to our patients" so I guess now it's not about to persuade the Doctor but ask if there's been any updates.

[Square1]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

If you’re going to ask a surgeon to spend their own money to perform research, there better be something good to show. Otherwise, there is no incentive. Remember, they’re not making any money and In fact they lose money. 

If we look at this purely from a commercial point of view, what up- and downsides would experimenting with 1 patient be exactly? 

For downsides it obviously costs money to buy the verteporfin / visudyne. How much would that be exactly? I have seen some differing numbers, I thought the estimation that Fox gave was rather low. A customer that pays the normal rate for an HT could provide this himself, so the doc has no costs on it.

Also, the doc needs to familiarize himself with what vp actually is and how to apply it. Furthermore, he needs more time than normally to assess the progress of the patient. Either in person or with sent-in pictures, like dr. Bloxham does. Let's say getting familiar takes 2 working days and the monitoring 1 hour a month. These would be costs for the doctor unless the patient would take part in these costs as well.

The upsides for the doc would be name recognition / exposure and, if vp does produce results, knowledge about dosing and technique that gives him an edge over his competition. 

Would it be useful to look at a country like Turkey, which is famous for it translant industry, to see if a somewhat reputable doc is willing to participate? Maybe Western docs are too comfortable with the way is it and the money they are already making, therefore lacking the incentive to experiment in most cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Square1]

36 minutes ago, sansi said:

If doctors don't do trials, there wouldn't be anything good to show. That's way its very important to have enthusiasts like Dr. Barghouthi.

However, didn't Dr. Mohebi agree to do trials ? He said something like "we owe this to our patients" so I guess now it's not about to persuade the Doctor but ask if there's been any updates.

He agreed, but it is not legally binding or anything. If the enthousiasm about vp wanes, he might cancel it himself as well or postpone it indefinitely.

[MrFox]

4 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

@DrTBarghouthiYou’re keeping the hope alive. I believe your research is the key to entice more surgeons to try this novel treatment. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of compelling data except for yours and the Stanford research. 

Sorry, but I must disagree. The results from Bloxham's trial are promising. I think Bloxham's work is equally important to any other trial going on. We have hair follicle neogensis in an excised FUT Scar, that would have been seen as a miracle 5 years ago. It is also too early to make a judgment call on how effective the trial has been. I remember a lot of people giving up on the FUE trial at this point as well. I again think we need to check our biases with FUE and FUT. We should be enthusiastic about any research being done and not arbitrarily decide that one deserves more attention than the other, especially this early on in testing. 

[Dragonsphere]

35 minutes ago, MrFox said:

Sorry, but I must disagree. The results from Bloxham's trial are promising. I think Bloxham's work is equally important to any other trial going on. We have hair follicle neogensis in an excised FUT Scar, that would have been seen as a miracle 5 years ago. It is also too early to make a judgment call on how effective the trial has been. I remember a lot of people giving up on the FUE trial at this point as well. I again think we need to check our biases with FUE and FUT. We should be enthusiastic about any research being done and not arbitrarily decide that one deserves more attention than the other, especially this early on in testing. 

This. 

People need to factor in a few things with Dr Bloxham's trial. 

1. FUT is far more invasive than FUE. Far more tissue is removed so the body will have to remember more of what needs to be regenerated. I think Bloxham tacitly said this at the the 1st month video when saying his trial was more focused on scar improvement. 

2. Dr Bloxham used several different doses on each of his patients. People seem to be comparing the 0.4 dose at 18 months with all of Dr Bloxham's results. 

3. We are at the six months mark and seeing hair growing in a REVISED FUT scar. This is absolutely incredible and it cannot be understated how ground breaking this is. 

What do I expect we will see at 18 months? My money would be a greatly reduced FUT scar  with a notable amount of hairs growing through. I think the results will be less impressive due to the reasons I have articulated above but at the end of the day, I think most of our interested in the regeneration aspect of the drug. The reduced scarring is an added bonus. 

Also take into consideration we don't know if the 18 month mark is the peak result. Maybe Dr Bargouthi's patient will continue to improve, assuming there is not already 100% regeneration. 

I think we should still have cautious optimism, but every new update makes me think more and more this is going to be the surgical 'cure' for MPB. 

Does anyone disagree with any of this? 

Edited January 31 by Dragonsphere