What's stopping Zarev, Cuoto, Pitella, and Pinto from being on the list of recommended surgeons?

[Buck Naked]

7 hours ago, Jon2345 said:

Thank you for your transparency Melvin. Like I said, there is no problem with that and I don't feel that there are any biases as long as everything is transparent. And I feel your payment is well deserved, not just with the forum, but with the podcasting, youtube videos, and also behind the scenes work you do on situations where you contact surgeons on behalf of patients.

For further transparency, can you tell us how much you're getting paid?

Can you tell us how much you get paid? 

[sukh123]

4 minutes ago, Buck Naked said:

Can you tell us how much you get paid? 

I’m all for transparency, but that’s  not really any of our business . You wouldn’t ask someone to show you your paycheque would you 

[Buck Naked]

1 hour ago, sukh123 said:

I’m all for transparency, but that’s  not really any of our business . You wouldn’t ask someone to show you your paycheque would you 

I agree with you. That was the whole point of my post buddy.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Buck Naked

[Jon2345]

32 minutes ago, Buck Naked said:

Can you tell us how much you get paid? 

Do you use a service that I offer? And if you actually read the rest of my comment, I defend the right to withhold any information he wants regarding his operations.

That being said, if I offered a service you use and if there was something that could be potentially a conflict of interest, I would absolutely tell you. I have the right to withhold that information from you, but I would tell you.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jon2345

[MachoVato]

1 hour ago, Jon2345 said:

Do you use a service that I offer? And if you actually read the rest of my comment, I defend the right to withhold any information he wants regarding his operations.

That being said, if I offered a service you use and if there was something that could be potentially a conflict of interest, I would absolutely tell you. I have the right to withhold that information from you, but I would tell you.

That's silly. When has anyone providing you a service given you their salary? Even salesmen don't offer that and they are very biased.

Anyone willing to share their salary clearly isn't making very much.

[Jon2345]

13 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

That's silly. When has anyone providing you a service given you their salary? Even salesmen don't offer that and they are very biased.

Anyone willing to share their salary clearly isn't making very much.

 

People disclose conflicts of interest all the time. Unless I am mistaken, this isn't Melvin's main job, info of his salary from his main job doesn't benefit anybody.

Some research groups get grants from institutions if they're studying that institutions' products. By your logic they would be 'disclosing their salary' if they mentioned what the grant was.

Another analogy is Robinhood's relationship with Citadel during the whole game stop stuff. Would some people have appreciated if they gave more detailed on their relationship? Sure. Do they have a right to keep that information private, yes.

Honestly, the grant is a stronger analogy. Melvin is getting paid by the sponsors, but Melvin also asserts his right to independence. But there interest of transparency in the site's own goals to disclose that information.

I can give more examples of conflicts of interest. But at the end of the day, I defend his right to keep the information private. This is private operation. Melvin isn't a congressperson nor is hairrestorationnetwork a federal agency. He has the right to keep anything he wants private. And as I mentioned before, this is doubly so for a service that he's giving away for free.

Like I mentioned before, if a grant I took was a conflict of interest in a service I offered, I would disclose it, but only because of my own goals for the service, not because you had a right to it.

I feel that I am just arguing semantics at this point, since as far as I can tell, every person here is in agreement that Melvin has a right to keep anything he wants private.

 

[Hairy Henderson]

This thread has gone off the rails….

[sukh123]

19 minutes ago, Jon2345 said:

 

People disclose conflicts of interest all the time. Unless I am mistaken, this isn't Melvin's main job, info of his salary from his main job doesn't benefit anybody.

Some research groups get grants from institutions if they're studying that institutions' products. By your logic they would be 'disclosing their salary' if they mentioned what the grant was.

Another analogy is Robinhood's relationship with Citadel during the whole game stop stuff. Would some people have appreciated if they gave more detailed on their relationship? Sure. Do they have a right to keep that information private, yes.

Honestly, the grant is a stronger analogy. Melvin is getting paid by the sponsors, but Melvin also asserts his right to independence. But there interest of transparency in the site's own goals to disclose that information.

I can give more examples of conflicts of interest. But at the end of the day, I defend his right to keep the information private. This is private operation. Melvin isn't a congressperson nor is hairrestorationnetwork a federal agency. He has the right to keep anything he wants private. And as I mentioned before, this is doubly so for a service that he's giving away for free.

Like I mentioned before, if a grant I took was a conflict of interest in a service I offered, I would disclose it, but only because of my own goals for the service, not because you had a right to it.

I feel that I am just arguing semantics at this point, since as far as I can tell, every person here is in agreement that Melvin has a right to keep anything he wants private.

 

The thing is this service is completely  free , you don’t pay a subscription . You have free information accessible to you, the content is good so why you so hung up on how much he gets paid .  

[MachoVato]

Robinhood and university grants aren't salaries. You asked about an individual's salary.

Melvin doesn't make recommendations. There is no conflict of interest. Would you ask for the salary of an employee of Robinhood?

This site is not without bias, but Melvin does a fair job at being neutral and always points to the recommended list, which mentions the financial relationship with the doctors. (I don't recall this disclaimer in Spex's ridiculous list of top 25 docs, for example) For a site that is built on members like you and I, that doesn't cost anything, it's about as fair as you can get. 

[Jon2345]

4 hours ago, MachoVato said:

Robinhood and university grants aren't salaries. You asked about an individual's salary.

Melvin doesn't make recommendations. There is no conflict of interest. Would you ask for the salary of an employee of Robinhood?

This site is not without bias, but Melvin does a fair job at being neutral and always points to the recommended list, which mentions the financial relationship with the doctors. (I don't recall this disclaimer in Spex's ridiculous list of top 25 docs, for example) For a site that is built on members like you and I, that doesn't cost anything, it's about as fair as you can get. 

Yeah, that's sort of my point, it's not accurate to think of a grant as a salary.

Again, at this point the argument is about semantics. It seems you're really stuck on the money Melvin makes from the sponsors of this website, which is part time and not his main job, as a 'salary'. The forum sponsors are not Melvin's boss. It's a bizarre definition to be honest.

As is you not defining it as a potential conflict of interest. Again, another semantics issue, which is doubly bizarre to me considering you're stuck on the salary argument. If you define the money Melvin is getting from the sponsors as a 'salary', then that means the forum sponsors are his boss. That would make the money not a potential conflict of interest, it's a bona fide conflict of interest.

But it's not a bona fide conflict of interest. They forum sponsors don't pay Melvin a 'salary'. The forum sponsors aren't Melvin's boss. They don't tell him what to do. Melvin does his work independently. The sponsors can support his work by sponsoring him, but they have no right to have a say in how Melvin conducts this website. They pay Melvin but Melvin asserts his rights to be independent.

It's why I brought up the grant analogy.

I'm confused at to how you thought I asked for the salary of an employee of Robinhood. I think you may have misunderstood that situation. I brought it up as an analogy to this situation regarding conflict of interests but if you're not familiar with that whole robinhood situation, then you can ignore it as it's only purpose was clarity, and it sounds like it's just causing more confusion.

I agree with you on the 3rd paragraph, and it sounds like we agree on Melvin's rights regarding disclosure. Melvin is making money from the sponsors, but he asserts his right to be independent.

This whole conversation has gotten way off topic. I appreciate everyone filling me in on how this site works.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jon2345

[NARMAK]

You're choosing a very strange hill to die on so to speak. 

The salary Melvin makes is for his time to moderate, do articles etc. and not like a YouTuber etc. getting kickbacks for referring patients. 

There's literally a YouTuber from Sweden who blew up with his hair transplant being on TV who admitted in his own video that after all the attention, he approached what i feel is a pseudo Hair Mill to get a referral fee per patient and instead of that, he got made an "employee" and now he's so happy with that and could never have thought of it. 

I also don't think it's none of your business generally how much somebody makes from a private organisation even if they offer a free or paid service. In the real world, you don't get this even as part of transparency. 

Use this forum or don't. The choice is yours. You're not getting the salary information you're asking for in this "call for transparency" and Melvin has been polite enough and given you more than than enough information that's relevant. 

Now if somebody was receiving kickbacks directly and always moaning about how his doctors don't pay him recommendation fees on time, i think you might stand a better chance. He hosts a weekly YouTube livestream

[Jon2345]

8 hours ago, sukh123 said:

The thing is this service is completely  free , you don’t pay a subscription . You have free information accessible to you, the content is good so why you so hung up on how much he gets paid .  

Those are the exact points I brought up earlier. I find it weird that you describe it as being hung up since I have defended his right to not to disclose it in nearly all of my posts.

3 hours ago, NARMAK said:

You're choosing a very strange hill to die on so to speak. 

The salary Melvin makes is for his time to moderate, do articles etc. and not like a YouTuber etc. getting kickbacks for referring patients. 

There's literally a YouTuber from Sweden who blew up with his hair transplant being on TV who admitted in his own video that after all the attention, he approached what i feel is a pseudo Hair Mill to get a referral fee per patient and instead of that, he got made an "employee" and now he's so happy with that and could never have thought of it. 

I also don't think it's none of your business generally how much somebody makes from a private organisation even if they offer a free or paid service. In the real world, you don't get this even as part of transparency. 

Use this forum or don't. The choice is yours. You're not getting the salary information you're asking for in this "call for transparency" and Melvin has been polite enough and given you more than than enough information that's relevant. 

Now if somebody was receiving kickbacks directly and always moaning about how his doctors don't pay him recommendation fees on time, i think you might stand a better chance. He hosts a weekly YouTube livestream

Actually to me it feels like you are dying on a very strange hill. People are adamant in a definition of 'salary' that has no basis in reality.

This is so strange. But we are at a point where I have to link to the dictionary definition of what a salary means.

"A salary is a form of periodic payment from an employer to an employee,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary

The phrase doesn't apply to here. Melvin is not an employee of the doctors. The doctors don't have any right to control what Melvin does. None.

I feel like people are trying to defend Melvin but at the same time inadvertently making it seem that he a bona fide conflict of interest by claiming that he gets paid a salary by the doctors, which means he has to listen to what the doctors say.

But your other points are basically what I have been arguing for. The grants, sponsorships, or whatever term you want to use allow Melvin to make very useful content to the community.

The rest of your comment is just so strange to me. I nearly ever single one of my posts I have defended Melvin's right not to disclose that information. You are basically using the same argument I did with 'Don't like it, don't use'.

It seems people are conflating terms of 'salary', 'transparency', and 'conflict of interest'. I made a single imploration regarding disclosure for transparency. If Melvin is going to do it, that's his right. I never made another comment towards Melvin. The rest of the comments are just me clarifying people's misinterpretations, and me actually having to defend Melvin because when people say he gets paid a salary by the doctors, it means that he is an employee of the doctors and they have control over his content. That's false, Melvin is in complete control of his content, and any implication otherwise is a weird hill to die on.

Like the other guy said earlier, this thread has gone off the rails.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jon2345

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, Jon2345 said:

Those are the exact points I brought up earlier. I find it weird that you describe it as being hung up since I have defended his right to not to disclose it in nearly all of my posts.

Actually to me it feels like you are dying on a very strange hill. People are adamant in a definition of 'salary' that has no basis in reality.

This is so strange. But we are at a point where I have to link to the dictionary definition of what a salary means.

"A salary is a form of periodic payment from an employer to an employee,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary

The phrase doesn't apply to here. Melvin is not an employee of the doctors. The doctors don't have any right to control what Melvin does. None.

I feel like people are trying to defend Melvin but at the same time inadvertently making it seem that he a bona fide conflict of interest by claiming that he gets paid a salary by the doctors, which means he has to listen to what the doctors say.

But your other points are basically what I have been arguing for. The grants, sponsorships, or whatever term you want to use allow Melvin to make very useful content to the community.

The rest of your comment is just so strange to me. I nearly ever single one of my posts I have defended Melvin's right not to disclose that information. You are basically using the same argument I did with 'Don't like it, don't use'.

It seems people are conflating terms of 'salary', 'transparency', and 'conflict of interest'. I made a single imploration regarding disclosure for transparency. If Melvin is going to do it, that's his right. I never made another comment towards Melvin. The rest of the comments are just me clarifying people's misinterpretations, and me actually having to defend Melvin because when people say he gets paid a salary by the doctors, it means that he is an employee of the doctors and they have control over his content. That's false, Melvin is in complete control of his content, and any implication otherwise is a weird hill to die on.

Like the other guy said earlier, this thread has gone off the rails.

Who said I get paid a salary from doctors?! I don’t own this forum. I am employed by the owner who pays me a salary to moderate the forum and for my content. How much I earn has ZERO to do with transparency, as countless have already commented.  There’s NO surgeon that pays me directly. Basically, how much I earn doing this job is NONE of your business, end of story. 

[Marko7t4]

22 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Who said I get paid a salary from doctors?! I don’t own this forum. I am employed by the owner who pays me a salary to moderate the forum and for my content. How much I earn has ZERO to do with transparency, as countless have already commented.  There’s NO surgeon that pays me directly. Basically, how much I earn doing this job is NONE of your business, end of story. 

I didn’t realise you didn’t own the forum Melvin. You clearly work very hard for the page. Whoever does own it is very lucky to have you and your input/experience/knowledge on hand. 

[Jon2345]

I appreciate you clearing things up Melvin. I disagree that it has zero to do with transparency, but I respect your viewpoint on that issue, and I strongly absolutely agree that if you don't want to make it any of our business, then it absolutely isn't any of our business. Content creators have full control over their work, period. I also thought you owned the forum. I don't see any other admins on here than you. I know this site was founded by another guy, but I just assumed they passed it down to you because of all your hard work and quality of content. Like Marko said, whoever owns this site is very lucky to have you. Who is the owner of the site ? Might be an obvious answer, my bet is on Pat.

[Kerma M]

Well, I agree that this isn’t a public service that obligate the moderator to disclose his salary or financial gain! 
However, I would like to make 2 points here:

1- For full transparency then financial disclosure should be made, amount of payments doesn’t have to be exactly accurate but members should get an idea, ie do clinic pay $100’s or $1000’s or more to be recommended here! 

2- The recommendation list here isn’t at all INCLUSIVE, this need to be crystal clear!
ie there might be very well surgeons out there that isn’t recommended here just because they don’t pay their fees??! 

Finally, I really appreciate anyone’s effort to share their honest and unbiased review/experience with HT as this can be the only true reference for potential patients!

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

This thread has gone way off the rails. Frankly, this is a free site, there’s absolutely no obligation to disclose any financial information to the public. It’s a rather ridiculous request. 

We have always maintained that the list is not a definitive list of all the best hair transplant surgeons, and ultimately, it us up to the patient to do their due diligence.  All of this information has been said as nauseam. I will be locking this thread, as there’s nothing further to discuss.

You can use this free resource, or not, it’s up to you, but we’re under no obligation to disclose any financial details, you’re not the IRS. Let’s make that clear.