Beard and Chest grafts

[Beto_2022]

Good evening dear members,

I have done my first HT but my crown wasnt covered at all.

I estimated I need at least 2.000-2500 grafts.

My donor area from head will not provide such amount.

What clinics that are comfortable in using grafts from beard and chest?

I am estimating to be able to get 500 from beard and 700 from chest and hopefully 1.000-1.300 from head.

Thanks so much.

Beto

[Britanium]

Could you possibly provide some pics ? And add some details of you’re first HT ? Scalp hair is obviously preferable followed by Beard, chest although possible and used on occasion, it  doesn’t have the yield of the other sources. 
Maybe you could consider Dr Bisanga, Dr Mwamba, Eugenix, @DrTBarghouthi & Dr Bicer to name a few. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by J-C

[Robbert]

I'm researching this as well, so I'm subscribing to your topic

My favorite read on this topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5447335/#!po=29.4643

From what I found about chest hair: there are a few negatives compared to scalp hair: 1. shorter anagen phase (30%) and longer telogen phase (70%) vs 85% and 15% for scalp hair.

2. Extraction is harder due to the angle. More experienced doctor is required.

3. There are sources that claim a lower survival rate (never found a study on this only articles from clinics)

4. The grafts are mostly single hair vs 2.1 hairs / graft for scalp on average.

5. Logically to me this would mean that you need much more follicles to be transplanted from your chest than from your scalp (due to #1 and #4): 2.1 * (85 / 30) = 6 times as much. If you include the survival rate it would be about 7 times or higher (found sources stating from 10 to 70% survival rate). [I'm highly in doubt about my logical reasoning on this part due to lack of knowledge. Please scrutinize this.]

6. It's advised to treat the body hair donor area for at least 6 months with minoxidil before surgery in order for the surgeon to pick the right hairs in the right growth phase to prevent low survival rates.. (from the article above).

The link above also states that PRP treatments could be used to increase yield after the body to scalp HT. I'm cautious about that claim as I've not really seen much research on PRP instead of it being expensive for something that's extremely cheap for a clinic: needles, centrifuge, knowing which part to use after centrifuging and activating, PRP gun or as some clinics do, just some needles. Which for that obvious reason means that the profits are high and the reason to sell PRP treatments are due to the high profit. Any master medical student should be able to do this for you if you just get the equipment yourself (which is about the cost of one treatment). Please don't do this, it's dangerous if you do not know what you are doing. By a professsional dermapen instead for that money, much better yield for your money.

Last discussion I heard between two doctors was that they don't know if it's due to the needle injection (which basically is like micro needling) or due to the PRP. With other words: PRP could just be a marketing gimmick.

For beard hair, it seems to be much better then any other hair but for me, my beard hair is thick so I'm afraid it would stand out. Please note that beard hair also has a different growth phase but much better than any other type of body hair.

I would like to know, has anyone used body hair? If so, which type and was the result satisfactory?

Edited May 22, 2022 by Robbert

[Al - Moderator]

15 hours ago, Robbert said:

From what I found about chest hair: there are a few negatives compared to scalp hair: 1. shorter anagen phase (30%) and longer telogen phase (70%) vs 85% and 15% for scalp hair.

 

This depends on the person. Chest hair varies greatly in different people, so you can't read one thing on it and expect it to apply to everyone. Some men grow very long, straight chest hair that almost matches their scalp hair.

 

15 hours ago, Robbert said:

Extraction is harder due to the angle. More experienced doctor is required.

Yes. Using a larger punch size than would have been used on your scalp helps.

 

15 hours ago, Robbert said:

The grafts are mostly single hair vs 2.1 hairs / graft for scalp on average.

I had some 2 hair grafts on my chest and a lot of them on my abdomen. Again it varies greatly between people.

 

15 hours ago, Robbert said:

It's advised to treat the body hair donor area for at least 6 months with minoxidil before surgery in order for the surgeon to pick the right hairs in the right growth phase to prevent low survival rates.. (from the article above).

 

Would that even matter? Chest hair is not falling out due to MPB/Alopecia. It's just going through its normal cycle. Once it gets transplanted most of it will shed and start growing a new hair anyway, so why would it matter what stage of the cycle it's in? I'd have to hear more on that theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

 

I'm posting 2 pictures here of men with chest hair. The first man has some very dense hair that grows somewhat straight and long and would probably blend in with his scalp hair with no issues at all. He could probably do a complete hair transplant using only chest hair if he wanted to and you would not even know the hair came from his chest.

The 2nd man has some tightly curled chest hair which when you look at his scalp hair you can see they are totally different from each other. This persons chest hair probably isn't going to be very useful in a transplant because it won't blend with the scalp hair.

This is just 2 samples, but you can see there are big differences in chest hair. You really have to evaluate your own type of scalp and chest hair to get an idea of how well (or not) it may work on you. Don't just read a generalized statement about body hair (chest hair in this example, but other body hair has similar differences) and come a conclusion about your own personal situation.

 

[Gatsby]

The problem you face with chest hair is that it has an incredibly short anagen phase. It grows for anything from 1-6 months and is in the telegen phase for 2-6 months. Considering that scalp hair is in the anagen phase for anywhere from 2-8 years, after beard hair, chest hair (as used in my case) is only to be used as a filler as a last resort. 

[Robbert]

10 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

The problem you face with chest hair is that it has an incredibly short anagen phase. It grows for anything from 1-6 months and is in the telegen phase for 2-6 months. Considering that scalp hair is in the anagen phase for anywhere from 2-8 years, after beard hair, chest hair (as used in my case) is only to be used as a filler as a last resort. 

Is it also true that the chest grafts will then all go in the telegen phase about the same time, which will give you a thin look?

The article I posted above stated that you needed minoxidil to ensure you harvest grafts during the HT as they are in the anagen phase.

[Gatsby]

21 minutes ago, Robbert said:

Is it also true that the chest grafts will then all go in the telegen phase about the same time, which will give you a thin look?

The article I posted above stated that you needed minoxidil to ensure you harvest grafts during the HT as they are in the anagen phase.

No they won’t all go into the telegen phase together just as scalp, beard etc doesn’t. Otherwise you would end up having a completely bald chest area. 

[Robbert]

4 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

No they won’t all go into the telegen phase together just as scalp, beard etc doesn’t. Otherwise you would end up having a completely bald chest area. 

I do wonder, just as @BeHappy said above. The research article shared by me above states to use minoxidil to get as much hairs as possible in the anagen phase in order to increase the amount of follicles to survive a HT. Is this something you did? And how did you check how many survived? Also, do you know the punch size they used? How much could they extract in one session? 

I'm very interested in a chest HT due to the fact that my chest hairs are (for looks) identical als my scalp hair, same thickness, same color and don't curl. Where my beard hair is thick, strong and dark black and does curl very slightly but the longer it gets the more firm it gets as well.

For that reason it would be perfect to use chest hairs in my hairline and to thick up the sides even more and just spread them between my current hairs on the top to achieve a natural look, those single grafts are perfect there. 

 

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

Chest hair isn’t as viable as beard hair. Like Gatsby said, the growth phase is much shorter. 

[Gatsby]

2 minutes ago, Robbert said:

I do wonder, just as @BeHappy said above. The research article shared by me above states to use minoxidil to get as much hairs as possible in the anagen phase in order to increase the amount of follicles to survive a HT. Is this something you did? And how did you check how many survived? Also, do you know the punch size they used? How much could they extract in one session? 

I'm very interested in a chest HT due to the fact that my chest hairs are (for looks) identical als my scalp hair, same thickness, same color and don't curl. Where my beard hair is thick, strong and dark black and does curl very slightly but the longer it gets the more firm it gets as well.

For that reason it would be perfect to use chest hairs in my hairline and to thick up the sides even more and just spread them between my current hairs on the top to achieve a natural look, those single grafts are perfect there. 

 

 

 

No offense and please take this in the spirit it is intended. Personally I would keep doing more research on surgical hair transplantation before even considering it. I’m not fully aware of your hair loss needs, prior surgery, Norwood level, pics, etc. Chest hair transplantation is a very finite, definite last resort and only in certain cases (repair cases). It’s really to be avoided. Again, I don’t know your particular case. All the best!