Unhappy with Eugenix transplant

[asterix0]

@AJ_HT I want to support you because I know how long and difficult this entire process can be, good end result or bad.

What I merely proposed to you is to try to get a more objective measure of how good your transplant yield was. You were nearly slick bald before in the front so you can get a pretty good assessment of this.

By doing this, you can ignore the speculation of x many grafts is enough or not. These are all speculative, vague statements that are confusing to us as patients.

To get an estimate of your true yield I told you what I recommend you to do. Measure and count your frontal region slowly and meticulously with your hair buzzed to a reasonable low grade.

This will help everyone, including the clinic and yourself and everyone in this thread, better assist you. 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

@AJ_HT I want to support you because I know how long and difficult this entire process can be, good end result or bad.

What I merely proposed to you is to try to get a more objective measure of how good your transplant yield was. You were nearly slick bald before in the front so you can get a pretty good assessment of this.

By doing this, you can ignore the speculation of x many grafts is enough or not. These are all speculative, vague statements that are confusing to us as patients.

To get an estimate of your true yield I told you what I recommend you to do. Measure and count your frontal region slowly and meticulously with your hair buzzed to a reasonable low grade.

This will help everyone, including the clinic and yourself and everyone in this thread, better assist you. 

This was the clinics first suggestion, they would count the hairs, and if any didn't grow they would replace them free of charge. I think that is a fair and reasonable solution. 

[shiba1985]

1 hour ago, AJ_HT said:

About the hairline, since there are questions - are you guys really trying to say that I would know better than the doctors? They were the ones who suggested the grafts and drew the hairline. I did not ask them to lower it. I mean, isn't it obvious that when the doctor is suggesting x grafts, they'll draw a hairline in line with those x grafts? What's there to not get here? Why would I argue with the doc and ask them to raise it?

And I'm getting a little tired of these questions and accusations now. I came here to write about my experience and for support, and while most folks like @JoeMan, @NARMAK,@Captain Haddock and many more have understood my plight (thank you!) I'd want to ignore the ones who haven't. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. @JoeMan rightly mentioned - some people instigate me with stupid questions, and then I have to reply. And then others say that this post has gone 7 pages long. 

Anyway, I've written to Dr Sethi a few hours back to see if there can be some resolution other than a touch-up. I'll post an update of what they say. 

In the meanwhile, some folks had reached out yesterday via DM. So if you have genuine questions about my experience, you may please post them here since my DMs aren't working. If you're going to write to criticise, I'll be ignoring it, because I think I've said enough.

Besides a touch up, what other resolution would make you happy? Whether it is the clinics fault or not, any ethical doctor will do their best to try and make sure the patient is happy, within reasons.  Which it seems they have done and are trying to do

Is there a solution you have in mind that will make you happy? just curious?  

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by shiba1985

[Captain Haddock]

56 minutes ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are replying to all the concerns in most truthful and honest manner

At Eugenix, our approach is to first evaluate the donor area (both scalp and beard) and estimate conservatively what best we can harvest without damaging donor with excessive thinning and at the same time not relying too much on beard (as the beard hair growth turns out good to excellent in some patients and moderate to poor in others; probably dependent on one's growth rate of beard hair which is quite variable in most patients).

So that's why in this particular case, we didn't over promise beard.

We felt that 2000 grafts from safe donor zone can be extracted. We tend to avoid very thin hair or miniaturized hair to avoid poor results). The remaining grafts we planned to do from beard.

So, there was no miscalculation of grafts as we had clearly demarcated the area that we are planning to cover. Also, our plan was to keep midscalp density lesser so that maximum area is covered.

At the time of pre surgery counselling, we clarify completely that the transplanted hair provide full look in dry state. However, if the hair are made wet with water or oil is applied, then it will look sparse and skin will show. (However, we don't have documentation of the video of face to face consultation in the clinic 😔 but these points are mentioned in pre surgery consent form).

At 8 months timeline, our patient was extremely unhappy with midscalp growth and wanted immediate implantation to fix the problem. He has mentioned that he is satisfied with frontal hairline growth.

Regarding the document signing:
In past some patients have been accusing us for poor results despite good growth and threatened to defame if refunds aren't done. Our approach is to document the results objectively and do our best to satisfy the patients. But refund in cases of dissatisfaction despite successful procedure is unwarranted and we have avoided that. To protect our interest, we had requested to sign a document that after this free top up surgery and producing visual change in appearance, we have completed our obligation and don't want to face further threats for refund or defamation. 

But we went ahead to do our work and stick our commitment for happy experience by doing free top without signing of the document. If it was forced, then we wouldn't have done the surgery without the document. 

We understand that satisfaction is inversely proportional to expectations and in current scenario; we have been unable to set the expectations leading to dissatisfaction. 

In current situation, the pictures posted for the hairline have been clicked with flash of camera and giving see through appearance. 

We are ready to do everything we can do to make the hairline more dense even now but we fear that Previous scarring may prevent the growth of all implanted grafts.

Fine hair caliber might lead not achieving desired density.

We will request the patient to guide us what he wants from us now to make sure that he feels that procedure was a success and not a failure.

You guys continue to impress with patient post care support. Kudos!

[HT_V]

Hi @AJ_HT I am new on the platform and noticed your post .

I had hair transplant in 2018 November from @Eugenix Hair Sciences 

I had same hair density as you were having after your first hair transplant 

I got transplanted with 2500 of scalp hair and 2000 beard hairs 

I was told that i will have a little low density in crown (a little visible scalp)  as a large are has to be covered 

From my experience what is wrong here is the hair thickness .

I also had the same issue for the 1st year to 1.5 years 

Here is what i did -

first 4 months i had PRP 

I took multivitamins suggested by EUGENIX 

finax 1 mg and Minox  5% (twice daily) till now

It improved my hair thickness a lot so though i have poor hair density my hair thickness compensate for the same.

In my view you should consult with EUGENIX and start on medications specially cyclic multivitamins they suggest(Works wonder in thickness)

In your case the hair thickness is not that good as of now 

Also as per your thread you went for third transplant after only 8 months  ( not a great thing to do )

My head started getting covered after 1 years as the density/thickness of the transplanted hair improve.

Edited March 8, 2022 by HT_V

[AJ_HT]

1 hour ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are replying to all the concerns in most truthful and honest manner

At Eugenix, our approach is to first evaluate the donor area (both scalp and beard) and estimate conservatively what best we can harvest without damaging donor with excessive thinning and at the same time not relying too much on beard (as the beard hair growth turns out good to excellent in some patients and moderate to poor in others; probably dependent on one's growth rate of beard hair which is quite variable in most patients).

So that's why in this particular case, we didn't over promise beard.

We felt that 2000 grafts from safe donor zone can be extracted. We tend to avoid very thin hair or miniaturized hair to avoid poor results). The remaining grafts we planned to do from beard.

So, there was no miscalculation of grafts as we had clearly demarcated the area that we are planning to cover. Also, our plan was to keep midscalp density lesser so that maximum area is covered.

At the time of pre surgery counselling, we clarify completely that the transplanted hair provide full look in dry state. However, if the hair are made wet with water or oil is applied, then it will look sparse and skin will show. (However, we don't have documentation of the video of face to face consultation in the clinic 😔 but these points are mentioned in pre surgery consent form).

At 8 months timeline, our patient was extremely unhappy with midscalp growth and wanted immediate implantation to fix the problem. He has mentioned that he is satisfied with frontal hairline growth.

Regarding the document signing:
In past some patients have been accusing us for poor results despite good growth and threatened to defame if refunds aren't done. Our approach is to document the results objectively and do our best to satisfy the patients. But refund in cases of dissatisfaction despite successful procedure is unwarranted and we have avoided that. To protect our interest, we had requested to sign a document that after this free top up surgery and producing visual change in appearance, we have completed our obligation and don't want to face further threats for refund or defamation. 

But we went ahead to do our work and stick our commitment for happy experience by doing free top without signing of the document. If it was forced, then we wouldn't have done the surgery without the document. 

We understand that satisfaction is inversely proportional to expectations and in current scenario; we have been unable to set the expectations leading to dissatisfaction. 

In current situation, the pictures posted for the hairline have been clicked with flash of camera and giving see through appearance. 

We are ready to do everything we can do to make the hairline more dense even now but we fear that Previous scarring may prevent the growth of all implanted grafts.

Fine hair caliber might lead not achieving desired density.

We will request the patient to guide us what he wants from us now to make sure that he feels that procedure was a success and not a failure.

Thank you for your detailed response. I'd like to point out certain aspects here, which should be known.

Quote

So, there was no miscalculation of grafts as we had clearly demarcated the area that we are planning to cover.

Unfortunately, this wasn't done. Except the hairline, nothing else was demarcated in the first procedure, which was the root cause of the problem (which I've mentioned in my first post itself). I would honestly recommend that you as a clinic and others as patients, both ensure that the entire area is demarcated and zones are marked, and if possible, with the approx number of grafts that will be implanted in each area/zone, so that the patient knows what he's in for. This didn't happen in my case.

Quote

patient was extremely unhappy with midscalp growth and wanted immediate implantation to fix the problem

This is incorrect. I didn't ask for an immediate implantation after 8 months. I wanted to meet Dr Sethi on priority, who said that since he is in Mumbai anyway, he will do the touch-up tomorrow itself.

Quote

our plan was to keep midscalp density lesser so that maximum area is covered

As seen in the pictures, the density in mid-scalp was not lesser. It was almost nil.

Quote

we had requested to sign a document that after this free top up surgery and producing visual change in appearance, we have completed our obligation and don't want to face further threats for refund or defamation. 

The document also mentioned that I shall refrain myself from posting pictures anywhere. I'm adding this specifically because I don't want to be misunderstood on the forum.

Quote

In current situation, the pictures posted for the hairline have been clicked with flash of camera and giving see through appearance. 

These are pictures clicked in my house with normal lights above my head. Not with a flash camera. I have also posted pictures in normal sunlight, which show my scalp. So the scalp being visible is not because of any flashlight. It's how it looks in any light.

Quote

in current scenario; we have been unable to set the expectations leading to dissatisfaction. 

This is exactly the problem. Incorrect expectations being set with regards to density. It would help to put things in writing for all patients during the in-person consult, so that things are clear from the very beginning.

Quote

We will request the patient to guide us what he wants from us now to make sure that he feels that procedure was a success and not a failure.

We're actually back to square one, because in my mind, the procedure was not a success. But like I said, what's done is done.

I've mailed Dr Sethi and looking to engage with him. Will update the community here on what I decide.

Thank you everyone who was supportive here regarding my case. I guess there's nothing more to be said here. I will update you folks about the progress, although opting for another touch-up is an option that seems extremely unlikely.

Edited March 8, 2022 by AJ_HT

[shiba1985]

7 minutes ago, AJ_HT said:

Thank you for your detailed response. I'd like to point out certain aspects here, which should be known.

Unfortunately, this wasn't done. Except the hairline, nothing else was demarcated in the first procedure, which was the root cause of the problem (which I've mentioned in my first post itself). I would honestly recommend that you as a clinic and others as patients, both ensure that the entire area is demarcated and zones are marked, and if possible, with the approx number of grafts that will be implanted in each area/zone, so that the patient knows what he's in for. This didn't happen in my case.

This is incorrect. I didn't ask for an immediate implantation after 8 months. I wanted to meet Dr Sethi on priority, who said that since he is in Mumbai anyway, he will do the touch-up tomorrow itself.

As seen in the pictures, the density in mid-scalp was not lesser. It was almost nil.

The document also mentioned that I shall refrain myself from posting pictures anywhere. I'm adding this specifically because I don't want to be misunderstood on the forum.

These are pictures clicked in my house with normal lights above my head. Not with a flash camera. I have also posted pictures in normal sunlight, which show my scalp. So the scalp being visible is not because of any flashlight. It's how it looks in any light.

This is exactly the problem. Incorrect expectations being set with regards to density. It would help to put things in writing for all patients during the in-person consult, so that things are clear from the very beginning.

Like I said, I have mailed Dr Sethi and looking to hear from him. Will update the community here on what I decide.

Thank you everyone who was supportive here regarding my case. I guess there's nothing more to be said here. I will update you folks about the progress, although opting for another touch-up is an option that seems extremely unlikely.

 

While some of your points are valid (not all), you come across as someone who is hiding behind the facade of genuinely providing information to other patients, to gain some negotiating leverage with the clinic.  I am not accusing you of this, I m just saying this is what it comes across as. 
 

I am genuinely interested in asking what kind of resolution from Dr Sethi would make you happy?

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by shiba1985

[ITA]

26 minutes ago, shiba1985 said:

Besides a touch up, what other resolution would make you happy? Whether it is the clinics fault or not, any ethical doctor will do their best to try and make sure the patient is happy, within reasons.  Which it seems they have done and are trying to do

Is there a solution you have in mind that will make you happy? just curious?  

 

You missed a passage, they have already written it from the clinic!

[shiba1985]

Just now, Egy said:

You missed a passage, they have already written it from the clinic!

yes offer another procedure? but the patient stated he is looking forward to a call with Dr Sethi, as if he has something else in mind. Does he want a refund, a partial refund?  something else? 

[Melvin- Admin]

Dear community, 

The clinic has offered their support to the patient. I believe they’ve acted fairly in this situation. I don’t know what kind of resolution the patient is requesting, it seems the clinic is asking for guidance from the patient, but he is putting it back on them. It’s up to him to decide what will make him happy. In the end, I don’t believe anything else can be said, until “he the patient” decides what will be a suitable solution. 

[AJ_HT]

17 minutes ago, HT_V said:

Hi @AJ_HT I am new on the platform and noticed your post .

I had hair transplant in 2018 November from @Eugenix Hair Sciences 

I had same hair density as you were having after your first hair transplant 

I got transplanted with 2500 of scalp hair and 2000 beard hairs 

I was told that i will have a little low density in crown (a little visible scalp)  as a large are has to be covered 

From my experience what is wrong here is the hair thickness .

I also had the same issue for the 1st year to 1.5 years 

Here is what i did -

first 4 months i had PRP 

I took multivitamins suggested by EUGENIX 

finax 1 mg and Minox  5% (twice daily) till now

It improved my hair thickness a lot so though i have poor hair density my hair thickness compensate for the same.

In my view you should consult with EUGENIX and start on medications specially cyclic multivitamins they suggest(Works wonder in thickness)

In your case the hair thickness is not that good as of now 

Also as per your thread you went for third transplant after only 8 months  ( not a great thing to do )

My head started getting covered after 1 years as the density/thickness of the transplanted hair improve.

This is helpful. I'm already taking finasteride. I'll try if minoxodil and multivitamins can do the trick.

Can you tell me how many months it took for the hair to thicken?

[AA1989]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, AJ_HT said:

I definitely don't want to go back for another free/complimentary touch-up.

I don't know. Do clinics offer a refund in such cases?

The OP has put his cards on the table - he wants his money back

[AJ_HT]

44 minutes ago, shiba1985 said:

 

While some of your points are valid (not all), you come across as someone who is hiding behind the facade of genuinely providing information to other patients, to gain some negotiating leverage with the clinic.  I am not accusing you of this, I m just saying this is what it comes across as. 
 

I am genuinely interested in asking what kind of resolution from Dr Sethi would make you happy?

 

It's strange you say this. Because I was not even looking for a resolution when I originally posted this thread. If you've read my posts, I've constantly mentioned that the post was written as a review about the clinic and my experience. Since multiple people mentioned that I should reach out to the clinic and find a mid-way, I did that to check if any other resolution is possible. Someone here suggested minox, multivitamins and PRP may help thicken the hair, and that's the kind of "alternative" that could be possible. 

I'm surprised at how suspicious people could be. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by AJ_HT

[HT_V]

Just now, AJ_HT said:

This is helpful. I'm already taking finasteride. I'll try if minoxodil and multivitamins can do the trick.

Can you tell me how many months it took for the hair to thicken?

@AJ_HT  Please get in touch with @Eugenix Hair Sciences

before starting any thing they suggest a kind of light cyclic multivitamin which worked good on me 

i already told you the regime 

plus additional information that i took multivitamin for first 1.5 year and then not took it till the previous month due to non availability in pandemic started again  previous month 

To answer your question 

after 1.3 years my thickness started improving a lot  before that there was diffused thickness i  think minox + finax and multivitamin has improved my existing hair too .

Please don't get demotivated Get in touch with the doctor they will really help you .

I suggest not to go under surgery if you are in 1 year to 1.5 year  phase  try some medications as recommended by doctor and wait for at least 4 months before taking any decision 

[AJ_HT]

32 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

The OP has put his cards on the table - he wants his money back

Kudos to your imagination, my friend. You asked me thrice about what I want, and I said I don't know. You kept asking me, and the only other option I could think of was asking if clinics give refunds. Even after that, I've CONSTANTLY mentioned that a refund is out of the picture.

And yet, there are multiple people like yourself who think I'm fishing for a refund. 

I came here looking for support, not toxicity. It's strange how you don't seem to care about the NDA you asked Melvin about multiple times, but are now talking about me asking for a refund. Unfortunately, some people are putting words in my mouth, and completely ignoring the fact that I've said multiple times, that A REFUND IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. 

I'd like to end the discussion on this post. I don't really care what anybody thinks. People who are logical will understand what this is about. The remaining can let their imagination run wild.

I still maintain that I've not had a good  experience with Eugenix, and that's what this post was about. In any case, I will update the forum what happens going forward. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by AJ_HT

[Melvin- Admin]

Dear community,

There’s nothing left to post. The clinic has responded in support of the patient. The patient himself is in contact with the clinic. They have offered a free top-up to thicken the hairline. But they have also advised the community about the limitations i.e., donor depletion, fine hair, and recipient scarring, which may affect visible density. 

Despite the rules of our members needing a certain number of posts before private messaging. I will make an exception, and once again add his messaging prematurely. At this point, the thread has run its course. There is more than enough information for the community to draw their own conclusions. I will be locking this thread, and will re-open if necessary.