Unhappy with Eugenix transplant

[JoeMan]

16 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

If we are to be balanced it would be disrespectful to accuse an experience doctor/clinic of just wasting grafts lowering a hairline for no reason. 

To me this shows bias towards the clinic. An experienced clinic can make mistakes and many if not all do from time to time. You talk as if Eugenix can do no wrong. I didn't say they wasted grafts but possibly could've gone higher. Saying its a repair case is just your assumption on HL design. We don't know what the reason for going lower was. Only the OP and the clinic know. We also don't know why more beard grafts weren't used like we see from many of their cases. Many unanswered questions here that we'll likely never know. 

I'm not saying Eugenix was wrong here because we don't know all of these details.

Saying he's a difficult case when this is what Eugenix is supposed to be world leaders in seems to dismiss what we've seen from them in the past. 

I bet if he was a new client right now in his current state, they'd figure out a way to work their magic because this is what they're known for. 

[AA1989]

8 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

Saying its a repair case is just your assumption on HL design. We don't know what the reason for going lower was.

The OP told us 

Quote

My first transplant was from a shady clinic in 2017 which I had got without doing much research, and obviously, the results were poor.

Now what's the chance of a poor transplant from a shady clinic but they aced the hairline😊

[JoeMan]

2 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

The OP told us 

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design. We don't really know why they drew it this way. Maybe they didn't have to go so low. Maybe the OP asked for it. Who knows? 

[RandoBrando517]

10 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design. We don't really know why they drew it this way. Maybe they didn't have to go so low. Maybe the OP asked for it. Who knows? 

U mean to tell me dis guy is a mute? He can’t speak up and say ‘yo don’t lower my hairline’ dis is straight up dumb

[JoeMan]

Yes that's exactly what I said. You can't open your mind to the possibility that he trusted the design from Eugenix to yield a better result? Who knows how it played out is what I'm saying. But you guys feel free to pile on the OP as you see fit.

[RandoBrando517]

1 minute ago, JoeMan said:

Yes that's exactly what I said. You can't open your mind to the possibility that he trusted the design from Eugenix to yield a better result? Who knows how it played out is what I'm saying. But you guys feel free to pile on the OP as you see fit.

Sorry dawg but ur wrong the whole reason you consult before surgery is to discuss the hairline. I mean ur the one paying so of course if you don’t like how its drawn u say no. Ur treating this guy like he’s dumb deaf and blind but he neither 

[Captain Haddock]

Sad to see this drama unfold. I think @AJ_HT presented his case in a very level headed manner - which isn't easy as a patient when you are 3 surgeries into your HT journey with little results.

I think we as a community should be far more understanding and supportive, all I see in this thread are posts geared towards nudging the blame towards him. 

I'm a Eugenix patient myself and I think the clinic did what they can, and if Dr Sethi did a touch up himself, you'd know they did what they possibly could to make the patient happy. Free surgeries in India are very rare. 

Sadly in this case I think OP isn't just a good candidate. The recipient has taken a beating, and like someone said, he should've waited a full 12 months (or atleast should've been advised by the clinic to wait longer) - perhaps he could still do a last attempt after a year or so.

When posts like this are made in public forums things obviously get complicated. What we see now is simply damage control by admins and other posters. Also, that messaging censorship was shady AF.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Captain Haddock

[AA1989]

10 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design.

This...

Quote

Now what's the chance of a poor transplant from a shady clinic but they aced the hairline😊

Hairlines are the trickiest element of a HT. To think that you walk out of a shady clinic with a poor HT but somehow have a winning hairline is fanciful.

[AA1989]

6 minutes ago, Captain Haddock said:

Also, that messaging censorship was shady AF

Agreed!

[JoeMan]

8 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Sorry dawg but ur wrong the whole reason you consult before surgery is to discuss the hairline. I mean ur the one paying so of course if you don’t like how its drawn u say no. Ur treating this guy like he’s dumb deaf and blind but he neither 

Look, you guys are free to think what you want. Eugenix did no wrong! The OP screwed up completely.

You're not changing your mind and I'm not changing mine. I'm still of the opinion that both parties have some blame here. I'm just trying to remain open minded and not be so quick to disregard the OP. 

If you agree on a HL I'd still expect a better result. 

[RandoBrando517]

1 minute ago, JoeMan said:

Look, you guys are free to think what you want. Eugenix did no wrong! The OP screwed up completely.

You're not changing your mind and I'm not changing mine. I'm still of the opinion that both parties have some blame here. I'm just trying to remain open minded and not be so quick to disregard the OP. 

If you agree on a HL I'd still expect a better result. 

Im not saying that but acting like it’s only them is not right data all im sayin

[JoeMan]

Just now, RandoBrando517 said:

Im not saying that but acting like it’s only them is not right data all im sayin

I never once said it was all them. 

[AA1989]

37 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design. We don't really know why they drew it this way. Maybe they didn't have to go so low. Maybe the OP asked for it. Who knows?

Quote

U mean to tell me dis guy is a mute? He can’t speak up and say ‘yo don’t lower my hairline’ dis is straight up dumb

Come on @JoeMan you don't really think a patient sits there like a lemon and has no input in the hair line. Much less someone who has already had the experience of a failed transplant and done extensive research. Remember your design consultation?

Quote

..... then we discussed the hairline. The Dr suggested that I don't get exactly symmetrical HL due to the fact that my head is slightly off. He advised me to keep it this way. I still wanted symmetry and we both agreed to meet in the middle. Slightly off symmetry but not as far off as his original line.

 

[AJ_HT]

About the hairline, since there are questions - are you guys really trying to say that I would know better than the doctors? They were the ones who suggested the grafts and drew the hairline. I did not ask them to lower it. I mean, isn't it obvious that when the doctor is suggesting x grafts, they'll draw a hairline in line with those x grafts? What's there to not get here? Why would I argue with the doc and ask them to raise it?

And I'm getting a little tired of these questions and accusations now. I came here to write about my experience and for support, and while most folks like @JoeMan, @NARMAK,@Captain Haddock and many more have understood my plight (thank you!) I'd want to ignore the ones who haven't. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. @JoeMan rightly mentioned - some people instigate me with stupid questions, and then I have to reply. And then others say that this post has gone 7 pages long. 

Anyway, I've written to Dr Sethi a few hours back to see if there can be some resolution other than a touch-up. I'll post an update of what they say. 

In the meanwhile, some folks had reached out yesterday via DM. So if you have genuine questions about my experience, you may please post them here since my DMs aren't working. If you're going to write to criticise, I'll be ignoring it, because I think I've said enough.

Edited March 8, 2022 by AJ_HT

[JoeMan]

6 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

Come on @JoeMan you don't really think a patient sits there like a lemon and has no input in the hair line. Much less someone who has already had the experience of a failed transplant and done extensive research. Remember your design consultation?

I'll point you to this 

 

31 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

Look, you guys are free to think what you want. Eugenix did no wrong! The OP screwed up completely.

You're not changing your mind and I'm not changing mine. I'm still of the opinion that both parties have some blame here. I'm just trying to remain open minded and not be so quick to disregard the OP. 

If you agree on a HL I'd still expect a better result. 

I won't be going back and forth anymore because I don't want to give anyone a reason to shut this post down. We've gone off the rails some here and we aren't going to solve anything going back and forth. 

I'm glad the op reached out to the clinic and I wish him luck. 

I remain concerned that he's being censored here and I don't want to give further reason to censor him further by having his post closed. 

[AA1989]

4 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I remain concerned that he's being censored here and I don't want to give further reason to censor him further by having his post closed. 

Good call - It's a poignant time for all us with what is going on in the world.

"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

[Melvin- Admin]

Dear Community,

Let me clear up a few things. First of all, I did not censor anyone, is this thread still up? Has the patient been able to say his peace on here? I was the one who enabled his messenger, so he can communicate with me via pm to provide his information. Once he provided me with said information I returned it back. Once he reaches a certain number of posts it will automatically unlock. I have reached out to the clinic for their official response. They will respond shortly.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

21 minutes ago, AJ_HT said:

About the hairline, since there are questions - are you guys really trying to say that I would know better than the doctors? They were the ones who suggested the grafts and drew the hairline. I did not ask them to lower it. I mean, isn't it obvious that when the doctor is suggesting x grafts, they'll draw a hairline in line with those x grafts? What's there to not get here? Why would I argue with the doc and ask them to raise it?

And I'm getting a little tired of these questions and accusations now. I came here to write about my experience and for support, and while most folks like @JoeMan, @NARMAK,@Captain Haddock and many more have understood my plight (thank you!) I'd want to ignore the ones who haven't. Guess we just have to agree to disagree. @JoeMan rightly mentioned - some people instigate me with stupid questions, and then I have to reply. And then others say that this post has gone 7 pages long. 

Anyway, I've written to Dr Sethi a few hours back to see if there can be some resolution other than a touch-up. I'll post an update of what they say. 

In the meanwhile, some folks had reached out yesterday via DM. So if you have genuine questions about my experience, you may please post them here since my DMs aren't working. If you're going to write to criticise, I'll be ignoring it, because I think I've said enough.

What do you mean other resolution other than a top-up? I will not allow our forum to be used as a tool to coerce a refund. 

[RandoBrando517]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

What do you mean other resolution other than a top-up? I will not allow our forum to be used as a tool to coerce a refund. 

Lol and dere it is the real reason for dis whole thread

[Melvin- Admin]

11 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

Good call - It's a poignant time for all us with what is going on in the world.

"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

This is nonsense, I will not allow anyone use our forum to extort a refund. Never. 

[AJ_HT]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

What do you mean other resolution other than a top-up? I will not allow our forum to be used as a tool to coerce a refund. 

This is outrageous! I haven't even asked for a refund. Please don't put words in my mouth.

If you read my posts, I've constantly maintained that I know that a refund is not something any clinic will give, so it's out of the question.

I've asked them to provide other options, as suggested by forum members here, because another touch-up is not something I want. And if they have no other option, then that's that. 

Man, I'm really beginning to get a lot of questions in my head now. Why would you say things to incite hostility here?

I think I'm done responding to your comments. If it's someone who doesn't want to look at both sides of the story, I'm not interested in answering any more questions

Edited March 8, 2022 by AJ_HT

[Melvin- Admin]

5 minutes ago, AJ_HT said:

This is outrageous! I haven't even asked for a refund. Please don't put words in my mouth.

If you read my posts, I've constantly maintained that I know that a refund is not something any clinic will give, so it's out of the question.

I've asked them to provide other options, as suggested by forum members here, because another touch-up is not something I want. And if they have no other option, then that's that. 

Man, I'm really beginning to get a lot of questions in my head now. Why would you say things to incite hostility here?

Please explain what you mean by this then? What else can the clinic do besides a touch-up? This is coming from you, I did not write this for you.

 

43 minutes ago, AJ_HT said:

Anyway, I've written to Dr Sethi a few hours back to see if there can be some resolution other than a touch-up. I'll post an update of what they say. 

 

Furthermore, private messages are a privilege that is granted to patients who have posted for a specific time frame. This has always been in place, and we do this to safeguard our community from spamming or gaming the system. 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:11 PM, AJ_HT said:

Till yesterday, I was not sure of what I wanted. But after seeing how my case has been handled, I definitely don't want to go back for another free/complimentary touch-up.

I don't know. Do clinics offer a refund in such cases?

You have also said this yesterday, so again how am I putting words in your mouth?

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

We are replying to all the concerns in most truthful and honest manner

At Eugenix, our approach is to first evaluate the donor area (both scalp and beard) and estimate conservatively what best we can harvest without damaging donor with excessive thinning and at the same time not relying too much on beard (as the beard hair growth turns out good to excellent in some patients and moderate to poor in others; probably dependent on one's growth rate of beard hair which is quite variable in most patients).

So that's why in this particular case, we didn't over promise beard.

We felt that 2000 grafts from safe donor zone can be extracted. We tend to avoid very thin hair or miniaturized hair to avoid poor results). The remaining grafts we planned to do from beard.

So, there was no miscalculation of grafts as we had clearly demarcated the area that we are planning to cover. Also, our plan was to keep midscalp density lesser so that maximum area is covered.

At the time of pre surgery counselling, we clarify completely that the transplanted hair provide full look in dry state. However, if the hair are made wet with water or oil is applied, then it will look sparse and skin will show. (However, we don't have documentation of the video of face to face consultation in the clinic 😔 but these points are mentioned in pre surgery consent form).

At 8 months timeline, our patient was extremely unhappy with midscalp growth and wanted immediate implantation to fix the problem. He has mentioned that he is satisfied with frontal hairline growth.

Regarding the document signing:
In past some patients have been accusing us for poor results despite good growth and threatened to defame if refunds aren't done. Our approach is to document the results objectively and do our best to satisfy the patients. But refund in cases of dissatisfaction despite successful procedure is unwarranted and we have avoided that. To protect our interest, we had requested to sign a document that after this free top up surgery and producing visual change in appearance, we have completed our obligation and don't want to face further threats for refund or defamation. 

But we went ahead to do our work and stick our commitment for happy experience by doing free top without signing of the document. If it was forced, then we wouldn't have done the surgery without the document. 

We understand that satisfaction is inversely proportional to expectations and in current scenario; we have been unable to set the expectations leading to dissatisfaction. 

In current situation, the pictures posted for the hairline have been clicked with flash of camera and giving see through appearance. 

We are ready to do everything we can do to make the hairline more dense even now but we fear that Previous scarring may prevent the growth of all implanted grafts.

Fine hair caliber might lead not achieving desired density.

We will request the patient to guide us what he wants from us now to make sure that he feels that procedure was a success and not a failure.

[NARMAK]

Firstly i think this has been a deeply divided thread in the community and there's been many strong opinions voiced. In some cases perhaps people have not chosen the best wordings or mentioned things in the best phrasing. 

Ultimately i've said i think we need to come together as a community and try to get a good resolution between patient and clinic. Eugenix are of course highly trusted on here because of the personal experiences of individuals who have felt a successful outcome thus far in their journeys. 

However, OP has now reached out to the clinic and the clinic is saying their piece. Hopefully there will be a middle ground and positive outcome. 

Eugenix via Melvin's post have offered to count the implanted grafts and check the survival rate and i believe it was explicitly mentioned any grafts that would not have grown will be re-done. I believe OP classed this as a "touch-up". If possible and the donor allows, perhaps OP would be willing to have an additional procedure to add density but whether this is with Eugenix or somebody else will be seen in time. 

You cannot as individuals perhaps fully relate unless you have gone through a procedure the emotional hesitancy to so soon return for a further hair transplant when results may have not reached the planned fruition due to complications etc. 

I think Eugenix will be the first per their post to admit the complexity of repair cases vs a virgin scalp may have led to this outcome, however once an evaluation has been done. If the majority of the grafts yielded, then i think it's only fair for them as the clinic to perhaps review their original planning for the procedure as possibly not having the desired outcome and use it as a learning experience for future patients. 

No clinic is perfect and anybody even highly rated probably has had a poor patient result at least once even with efforts taken to reduce any such risk. 

I hope we can all as i've said previously pull together as a community and learn from this.