3001 FUE grafts with Dr Sethi from Eugenix. March 1st to March 3rd.

[A_4_Archan]

11 minutes ago, Tony711 said:

Just had a chat with Dr Sethi, let’s just say it didn’t go well.  I’m a busy person too and my time is valuable.  I have been more than patient, but don’t brush me aside 30 mins before meeting to say you have a jet lag!! 

And, don’t accuse me of wanting something out of this.  

He’s not happy that I mentioned that his business starting to be like a hair mill, I didn’t say it was, but I said it’s starting too  and he accuses me of wanting to get something out of this   It’s funny he mentioned that, after putting 3000 holes in my head for a below average result  

He wants me to wait 1 more month , Sure I can wait one more month.  
 

it definitely wasn’t a good conversation. He’s a good man with good intentions but sometimes expanding too fast and you can’t be everywhere at the same time.  It’s sad. 

I can understand ur situation and i cn understand hw irritating it is and anyone can loose his cool whn ths happen ..u have been graceful till nw and u kept ur cool ...thts so nice of u..bt i wud jst advice u to digest ths and keep cool for bit more time and have a proper conversation with him and jst find out some solution which cud help u in some way....i too feel bad for u and evn i believe tht ths is unacceptable bt plz try to hold ur nerv for a bit more and see wht solution he offers u...

[ahmed9500]

It is best to list down all the options you have, and get the right advice from seniors and other specialists. See what Dr S offers you first. 

[Parasol]

Sorry to hear that you didn’t find your conversation with Dr. Sethi very productive, Tony. 

Did he offer any explanation on his opinion about possible reasons for the substandard growth? Or does he want to wait another month to give his final assessment and delve into that specific topic?

What did he say it is that you wanted from him or the clinic? I guess I’m confused on this whole part of the call as you described it. Is he accusing you of wanting a refund, or a free surgery or what exactly? Have you specifically asked for anything (if you have, it’s totally understandable, just looking for clarification)?

I like Eugenix a lot as a clinic, and still do. They were number 2 on my list when I had my last surgery. Though, how clinics handle cases such as this one matters a lot, so I do hope you and them can find a solution you both feel good about, along with an explanation as to what happened here.

Appreciate the update, and try to hang in there.

[Tony711]

37 minutes ago, Parasol said:

Sorry to hear that you didn’t find your conversation with Dr. Sethi very productive, Tony. 

Did he offer any explanation on his opinion about possible reasons for the substandard growth? Or does he want to wait another month to give his final assessment and delve into that specific topic?

What did he say it is that you wanted from him or the clinic? I guess I’m confused on this whole part of the call as you described it. Is he accusing you of wanting a refund, or a free surgery or what exactly? Have you specifically asked for anything (if you have, it’s totally understandable, just looking for clarification)?

I like Eugenix a lot as a clinic, and still do. They were number 2 on my list when I had my last surgery. Though, how clinics handle cases such as this one matters a lot, so I do hope you and them can find a solution you both feel good about, along with an explanation as to what happened here.

Appreciate the update, and try to hang in there.

 

Didn’t get an explanation, but he wanted for me to wait another month.  I’m open to any ideas from him, just waiting on him when he has the time. 
 

I guess what frustrated me was 30 mins before the actual call , his assistant contacts me that Dr Sethi can not make it due to jet lag and wants to set up the time again for tomorrow.  I agreed, although I wish they had let me known sooner.
 

 I go out to meet business partners for lunch, and 30 mins later,  his assistant sends me a message that Dr Sethi is ready now for the call.  I told the guy, I’m out already , let’s just talk tomorrow as planned.   
 

From the texts I had back and forth with Dr Sethi ,  it seems he’s accusing me of trying to get something out of it.  Not sure what he means by that,  I guess he’s not happy I have posted my experience so far on here.   
 

This site was created so patients can come on here and provide their experiences with the Doctors they had the procedures with, so potential patients can learn and decide where to go. 
 

Dr Sethi is upset thinking I said his clinic is a hairmill , it’s not a hairmill,  it’s quite the opposite, they have been very nice to me, I felt like I was at home when I went there, but as far as communications and the results I have so far , well the pictures speak for themselves.  

[GeneralNorwood]

23 hours ago, Xanadu said:

I believe that Eugenix has a couple of examples like that which have been quite successful.

Can you show me ? 

[samz_033]

Seeing results like this puts me off from having a hair transplant. I really hope things get better for you! All the best 

[A_4_Archan]

4 minutes ago, samz_033 said:

Seeing results like this puts me off from having a hair transplant. I really hope things get better for you! All the best 

Not just a hair transplant bt evry surgery has its risk and chances of failure ...this risks gets narrower if u r under good hands...bt at the end thr r so many factors for any sugery to get failed...so its on us tht hw our condition  is and how much willingness we have to do it and hw much acceptance we have if it goes wrong...thts why i think

"The best surgery is not to have surgery" 😅

 

[Xanadu]

23 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Can you show me ? 

You can for example look up the results on here of the user Gatsby.

[samz_033]

7 minutes ago, Archan said:

Not just a hair transplant bt evry surgery has its risk and chances of failure ...this risks gets narrower if u r under good hands...bt at the end thr r so many factors for any sugery to get failed...so its on us tht hw our condition  is and how much willingness we have to do it and hw much acceptance we have if it goes wrong...thts why i think

"The best surgery is not to have surgery" 😅

 

I agree. 'The expected result is never certain. Medicine itself is not an exact science so it is impossible to predict the outcome of any surgical procedure'.

[samz_033]

1 hour ago, Tony711 said:

 

Didn’t get an explanation, but he wanted for me to wait another month.  I’m open to any ideas from him, just waiting on him when he has the time. 
 

I guess what frustrated me was 30 mins before the actual call , his assistant contacts me that Dr Sethi can not make it due to jet lag and wants to set up the time again for tomorrow.  I agreed, although I wish they had let me known sooner.
 

 I go out to meet business partners for lunch, and 30 mins later,  his assistant sends me a message that Dr Sethi is ready now for the call.  I told the guy, I’m out already , let’s just talk tomorrow as planned.   
 

From the texts I had back and forth with Dr Sethi ,  it seems he’s accusing me of trying to get something out of it.  Not sure what he means by that,  I guess he’s not happy I have posted my experience so far on here.   
 

This site was created so patients can come on here and provide their experiences with the Doctors they had the procedures with, so potential patients can learn and decide where to go. 
 

Dr Sethi is upset thinking I said his clinic is a hairmill , it’s not a hairmill,  it’s quite the opposite, they have been very nice to me, I felt like I was at home when I went there, but as far as communications and the results I have so far , well the pictures speak for themselves.  

By the way are you taking any meds such as finasteride or oral minoxidil?

[GeneralNorwood]

21 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

You can for example look up the results on here of the user Gatsby.

Well Gatsby had 3000+ scalp grafts in the first procedure, so you can't compare it to Tony's procedure( 500 scalp grafts)

Edited February 6, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Tony711]

21 minutes ago, samz_033 said:

By the way are you taking any meds such as finasteride or oral minoxidil?

I recently started using topical dutasteride

[Rafael Manelli]

Try waiting another 6 months for full result.

Maybe 3 more years, then you can judge. Maybe you will be eligible for a small touch-up of a few hundred grafts.

/s

Risky candidate, you signed the contract, so Eugenix probably won’t legally owe you anything. but I don’t think it’s fair for them not to remedy this. Total refund + scalp biopsy + reparative surgery would be most ethical and dignified solution to this. They do hundreds of patients a year; they can afford to refund the apparently tiny number who have a failed result. But that’s just my opinion.

By the way, 3000 grafts was never going to be enough to cover such a huge bald area anyway, even with full growth. 

[Xanadu]

11 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Well Gatsby had 3000+ scalp grafts in the first procedure, so you can't compare it to Tony's procedure( 500 scalp grafts)

Of course you will never find anyone who exactly match the situation of anyone else. That is not a reasonable criteria. Gatsby is more similar to Tony in that both had an exhausted donor, and had a lot of beard grafts implanted.

Overall, I think dr Sethi suggested that he could help Tony, but I'm not sure if he meant that he could create a satisfactory results in one go. I doubt that he did promise that. I am not an expert at his level at all, but I would assume that a case such a Tony's would always take several rounds - just like Gatsby's has done. 

If this is indeed the case, then I think the lynch mob mentality is a bit premature. Let's at the very least wait and see what Dr Sethi and Tony agree to. Furthermore, I know that Dr Sethi has had to postpone a couple of times, but let's be fair - he has not postponed indefinitely. Rather, this postponement I believe was merely one day. I suggest to keep a level head and put the pitchforks away until they have had a chance to sort this out.

 

 

[drawdownfx]

This is a simple case of Dr Sethi challenging himself and to a certain extent letting his ego get in the way of what 99% would have said to tony: a big NO to surgery. 

I think this case would have helped both the doctor and the patient if he was told about how difficult this will be.

The conversation should have been like " I know you are spending a lot and you have high hopes but I want you to know that I am challenging myself in this case too so it might not be successful. Do you still want to continue?" Instead it went like this " I can give you a full head of hair". In my opinion that is ego talk, I could be wrong here but this is how I am interpreting the situation. Sure OP can have an underlying issue that prevented growth and if that's the case then it isn't Eugenix fault.

Edited February 6, 2023 by drawdownfx

[samz_033]

13 minutes ago, Tony711 said:

I recently started using topical dutasteride

I think that not taking any medications following your hair transplant is probably what caused the poor results.

[Rafael Manelli]

3 minutes ago, samz_033 said:

I think that not taking any medications following your hair transplant is probably what caused the poor results.

Beard grafts don’t require finasteride. So no.

[GeneralNorwood]

28 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

Of course you will never find anyone who exactly match the situation of anyone else. That is not a reasonable criteria. Gatsby is more similar to Tony in that both had an exhausted donor, and had a lot of beard grafts implanted.

Man, im not asking about exactly same procedure, but similar. Gatsby's first procedure is nothing like Tony's. 

Tony had 2500 beard grafts and 500 scalp grafts- which is propably around 3500-4000* hair implanted on high norwood. Maybe Tony can answer if this number is correct, if he knows amount of singles,doubles etc. 

Gatsby had 3200+ scalp grafts and around 5000 beard grafts- which is propably around 12000* hair implanted on high norwood. So Gatsby had 8000+ more hair implanted in procedure, so there is 0% similarity. 

 

*The number of hair is my estimation based on that average hair count per graft in scalp is usually around 2 and in beard around 1. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Xanadu]

5 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Man, im not asking about exactly same procedure, but similar. Gatsby's first procedure is nothing like Tony's. 

Tony had 2500 beard grafts and 500 scalp grafts- which is propably around 3500-4000* hair implanted on high norwood. Maybe Tony can answer if this number is correct, if he knows amount of singles,doubles etc. 

Gatsby had 3200+ scalp grafts and around 5000 beard grafts- which is propably around 12000* hair implanted on high norwood. So Gatsby had 8000+ more hair implanted in procedure, so there is 0% similarity. 

 

*The number of hair is my estimation based on that average hair count per graft in scalp is usually around 2 and in beard around 1. 

With around 5000 beard grafts, this is at the very least what I would assume Tony would need. Probably quite a bit more because even-though Gatsby also had an exhausted donor with earlier FUT HTs, he still had some scalp grafts to rely on. 

I never said that I talked about only Gatsby's first procedure. I said cases, and Gatsby is such a case. I guess to you he still does not match well enough. He is the one I'm thinking of who would come closest.

Either way. Even if they are not similar enough for you, I stand by my opinion that it is too soon to call for refunds and so on. Let's calm down and wait to have Tony and Dr Sethi talk about this. 

[Rafael Manelli]

3000 grafts was never going to be enough to give good coverage. 

[Tony711]

1 hour ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Try waiting another 6 months for full result.

Maybe 3 more years, then you can judge. Maybe you will be eligible for a small touch-up of a few hundred grafts.

/s

Risky candidate, you signed the contract, so Eugenix probably won’t legally owe you anything. but I don’t think it’s fair for them not to remedy this. Total refund + scalp biopsy + reparative surgery would be most ethical and dignified solution to this. They do hundreds of patients a year; they can afford to refund the apparently tiny number who have a failed result. But that’s just my opinion.

By the way, 3000 grafts was never going to be enough to cover such a huge bald area anyway, even with full growth. 

When I went there my expectation wasn’t that high , but after talking to Dr Sethi and he was so positive getting a good coverage just for the front , my expectation went up.   I went with a mindset that he has done lots of hair transplants and he has lots of experience,  so with that in mind I was expecting better results than this. 

[Rafael Manelli]

Just now, Tony711 said:

When I went there my expectation wasn’t that high , but after talking to Dr Sethi and he was so positive getting a good coverage just for the front , my expectation went up.   I went with a mindset that he has done lots of hair transplants and he has lots of experience,  so with that in mind I was expecting better results than this. 

I would have expected better results too.

[GeneralNorwood]

24 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I guess to you he still does not match well enough. He is the one I'm thinking of who would come closest.

It's not "to me". I provided objective criteria that proves this cases are not alike.

"a lot of beard grafts" is not good argument to state that 2 cases are similar. 

 

25 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

 Let's calm down and wait to have Tony and Dr Sethi talk about this. 

Well, i can agree to this conclusion. 

Tony is now rightfully unhappy about the result and he is manifesting this in overdetailed description of his communication troubles with Eugenix.

Well i understand that Tony got angry when he was hearing from long time "wait, wait" and nothing changed. 

But clearly now Tony has Dr Sethi attention and i suggest to descalate situation a little bit and try to resolve it in private.

 

Tony, based on your first post, The original plan was to implant a lot more grafts in next procedures, but seeing current outcome you have to establish with Dr Sethi if there is sense to continue HT journey. If possible, you could see Dr Sethi in person, so he could examine your scalp in person. Ask him if he is coming to US this year. You can get second opinion from one of forum recommended HT Surgeons too. 

[BaldGuy]

24 minutes ago, Tony711 said:

When I went there my expectation wasn’t that high , but after talking to Dr Sethi and he was so positive getting a good coverage just for the front , my expectation went up.   I went with a mindset that he has done lots of hair transplants and he has lots of experience,  so with that in mind I was expecting better results than this. 

I remember from your first post on this thread that Dr Sethi told you that your beard is very good and he can give you good coverage in the front on that procedure and then continue with the back..

But now the result is quite bad and it is obvious that you got low yield of beard grafts...

Edited February 7, 2023 by BaldGuy

[Captain Haddock]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:13 PM, Tony711 said:

When he asked how much I paid he was shocked and thinks I was ripped off,   I paid almost $25K for 3000 grafts just so Dr Sethi would do the procedure and thinking I would get the best results because I was told it would be 30 to 35cm2 in density, but it seems the money was a waste.  

I'm sorry to hear this, but I feel this is a complete rip off. I can't help but wonder why you didn't look at Dr. Konior, who happens to charge around the same rate, is one of the best doctors in the world churning out very consistent results, very ethical, above all, he is located in the USA and would've offered you treatment (or rather sound advice) without all the additional noise of having to get a visa, travel etc. In my personal opinion, there are plenty of other talented surgeons who charge far less (Freitas, Cuoto et all), do the entire surgery themselves, and mean nothing but business without the frills of a farmhouse, instagram live etc.

6 hours ago, Tony711 said:

He’s not happy that I mentioned that his business starting to be like a hair mill, I didn’t say it was, but I said it’s starting too  and he accuses me of wanting to get something out of this   It’s funny he mentioned that, after putting 3000 holes in my head for a below average result .

This has become rather characteristic with Dr. Sethi it looks like. He completely fails to realise that the patients he couldn't deliver results for are psychologically impacted in a way that cannot be quantified. The last thing someone who has spent $25K, travelled halfway across the world, waited patiently for a year would want is to be accused by the very doctor who was entrusted with this life changing procedure. I can't help but notice that Dr. Sethi spent time talking about trivial matters - such as your posts on some online forum and your supposed intentions instead of addressing your immediate concern and health. You don't seem to be his priority.  

You've been through quite an ordeal prior to this surgery, you had multiple failed procedures, and the first thing Dr. Sethi should've done is really study your history and your physiology instead of announcing that he would give you full coverage for 12K grafts. You were never a candidate and someone with your best interests would've turned you away instead of making a quick buck off your misery. 

This case has all the signs of carelessness and irresponsible behaviour, which is very reminiscent of what happened with me. Please don't waste anymore time waiting for something magical to happen, take control of your life, get an SMP and move on.

2 hours ago, drawdownfx said:

This is a simple case of Dr Sethi challenging himself and to a certain extent letting his ego get in the way of what 99% would have said to tony: a big NO to surgery

In my opinion, it can be quite lucrative to refuse a procedure that requires 80% BHT work. Such procedures often command high prices. Patients who require BHT tend to have lower expectations, which makes it easier to make a profit. It is not credible to believe that a doctor with thousands of surgeries under their belt would be unable to assess the risks of failure. To me, this situation does not seem like a doctor seeking to test their skills.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Captain Haddock
Grammar