How is business for US based HT surgeons these days?

[MrZennie]

On one hand, I imagine business is booming.  All the videos on youtube showing HT procedures in detail, along with amazing results, has to be good for business. (These videos/results which have MILLIONS of views have me strongly considering a procedure myself.) On the other hand, people can visit places like Turkey and save $15,000-$25,000.  How much do you think discounted places like Turkey are affecting US businesses? I notice US surgeons routinely host open Q&A events around the country, presumably to attract clients.  If they had all the clients they wanted, why would they travel around?  I also notice ads for some top surgeons showing up in my FB feeds. Maybe it's not booming after all?  Thoughts?

[LonelyGraft]

I imagine business is def affected for surgeons outside of big metropolitan Cities like la, sf, ny, Florida, etc. these places will likely have lots of potential customers and “looks focused” individuals  with $. Now clinics have to put lots of effort and money into marketing.

 

turkey is def changing the ht game but it’s more of a minefield than ever.

[California]

My 2 cents. Don't think that we can generalize the "HT markets outside the US" and assume that all the non-US based HT Surgeon will outsource the critical aspects of the procedure such as the extractions and planting to technicians. I believe that each HT Clinic has their own philosophy and protocol. This tends to vary from Clinic to Clinic.

As as example, Dr. Bhatti performs all the important steps of the HT process himself. In the spirit of transparency, we post all these details on our website so that the Patients can know upfront what to expect. Copy/pasting the details from our website (https://darlingbuds.com) below:

Dr.Bhatti will do

• 100% counseling before procedure
• 100% hairline design
• 100% local anesthesia
• 100% graft harvesting
• 100% slit making
• 100% supervision of plantation
• 100% post procedure advice and cleaning on the day of the procedure after surgery
• 100% follow up either online or in person

Best regards,

California

[California]

20 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

Not sure you understood the question being asked in the thread, nor the basics of my argument which was there are legal limitations thrust upon the US medical community which would uniformly effect how that market approaches and advertise HT's.

What clinics do outside the US (or rather what they say they do) is entirely up to them given they do not have the same stringent legal limitations placed upon them. I am sure there are some clinics inside the US who do not abide by the law, just as there are clinics outside the US that have a doctor who is involved at every step. That is not the point. 

Your response then, as it fails to understand the purpose of the thread (and in my turn my response to the OP's question), only comes across as a poor excuse to your advertise your clinic. 

Hello. Really no intention for "a poor excuse to advertise my clinic". You have made a blanket statement implying that "US is the "only" country in the world where there are legal limitations thrust upon the medical community which would uniformly affect how that market approaches and advertises HT's". Do you happen to know the rules and regulations governing the medical communities in all other countries? If not, then your comment is not fair. That was the point that I was trying to make. The HT pricing outside the US is cheaper because the cost of living is cheaper. It should not be arbitrarily linked to "employing cheap labor to do the extractions". Again, not a fair statement.  You can interpret it the way you want to ......I respect that. Thank you. 

[Al - Moderator]

Some US clinics are doing a lot more repair work from procedures done in other countries that they did in years past.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

I think there is enough business to go around. Sure black market FUE clinics are wreaking havoc on the industry as a whole. But there are still a good number of patients who don’t wanna travel etc. 

 

[California]

On 9/2/2019 at 8:02 PM, transplantedphil said:

The thread is about the US surgeons, and thus the my response was directed at the laws governing US physicians and what that might mean in terms of their status within a global market place.

Employing cheap labour can be intrinsically linked to the cost of living in a country.

Opening the topic up to all the laws and approaches made by various HT clinics across the globe does not isolate the topic to the question at hand, nor does it answer the OP's original question, which means your response has only complicated matters. I wouldn't have cared personally but the fact you directly copied and pasted from your employers website means it can only be interpreted as advertising, which you simply don't see other clinic reps doing here. 

So i respectfully disagree.

[EDIT: if you have stated what the laws are for your employer then revealed how your doctor operated within them it would have been a more meaningful post]

Please note that the "directly copied and pasted from your employers website" was only to prove the point that not all HT Clinics outside of the US employ "cheap labor" to do the extractions and hence, manage to keep the costs low. All I did with the "copy and paste" was to exhibit the steps in the process handled by a non-US HT Surgeon "himself" without outsourcing it to "cheap labor". Really, no need for any "advertising". Please read your post again. You have made a lot of assumptions about the non-US HT Surgeons, which honestly, come across as offensive. I have listed your comments below with my responses in parenthesis. 

1. Doctors that do a majority of their own work (extractions and planting) are stuck around 2000 graft mark. (I beg to differ. Very often we do FUE procedures of 3000-3500 grafts in one sitting...... with the Surgeon doing all his work himself.....no outsourcing to cheap labor)

2. Markets outside the US can employ cheap labor to do their extractions, hence can go for higher graft counts in a single session. (please refer to my comment above)

3. Doctors outside the US can use any advertising that they want without legal consequences (That is so not true. Most reputed Clinics all over the world will never advertise Patient results without the written consent of the Patient. Also, most of the Clinics will respect the Patients privacy and not show the face, if the Patients wishes so)

4. There is a powerful market for the US docs to remain as elite "artists". (what does that make the top notch non-US doctors of the world? Non-elite?)
5. "I have never seen proper crown work emerge from cheaper countries" (does that not sound insulting and offensive to you?)

My intention is not get into a never ending argument with you. I just wanted to bring to your attention that even though you probably had no intention to offend anyone but for me, your comments came across that way. You might feel that I was indulging into free advertising. That will be your opinion and once again, I respect your opinion. Doesn't mean that I have to agree with you. 

Take care,

California

 

[California]

19 hours ago, transplantedphil said:

This thread was about the nature of US business. In my post I decided to highlight the rules and regulations placed upon US surgeons which might impact their business. To this stage you’ve never addressed OP original question and clearly failed to understand the purpose of my post

1. That’s great your clinic does that. Keser who does all his own extractions and implanting in Turkey does 500 grafts average a day. That’s not the point. The entire point of my post was to highlight what the average US surgeon can achieve given their laws of their country. Based on my observations doctors in the US seem to achieve around 2000 grafts a day mark. It might be higher, might be lower. What surgeons do outside that, in different countries, with different regulations, was never the point. Please reread the 2nd sentence of my post again
2. Obviously it would depend on the clinic. But this thread was about the US (please review the title of the thread). 
3. Again I was referring to US law. I dont know the particulars of other countries, so I only can only comment upon that. I know image rights are more protected in the US, and I've seen examples and heard stories of here of HT clinics from cheaper countries using images from other HT docs in their advertising. Dr Bhatti, the doctor you represent, came on this forum recently and released private patient information  https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/54898-tejinder-bhatti-the-worst-hair-transplant-experience-and-unprofessionalism/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-517527
4. That’s a false dichotomy. I was arguing that based on the regulations placed on US doctors they can create a place for themselves in the global market place as the specialists and elite. To draw the conclusion that I was saying that only elite docs exist in the US is an absurdity. Please reread my post again sir. 
5. You are being highly selective as I also finished that sentence by saying “I could be wrong.” I said this based on my own observations. As far as I know I think I’ve only seen Dr Laorwong and Dr Path do proper crown work that adheres to the whorl pattern, but I’d need to research it more. Does your clinic do this?

If your post wasn’t merely intended as free advertising then please provide the forum with at least 5 samples of other clinic reps who similarly copy and paste information from their website into forum threads.

I really do not have the time for this back and forth with you. I am glad that you did not mean to offend and insult the entire non-US HT Surgeon community. Regarding Dr. Bhatti's posting of that Patient's information, please note that the Patient posted on this Forum first......total slander. Does the Clinic not have the right to protect it's good name and reputation. Dr. Bhatti posted the Patient emails (not revealing any personal details) ONLY after Melvin authorized those on the forum. You cannot make accusations without providing the full context.

Anyways, like I said before, you are welcome to believe what you want to believe. I, on the other hand will continue to believe that the good US based HT Surgeons are not better or worse than other good HT Surgeons around the world. Lower cost HT work does not automatically imply cheap outsourced labor. 

I am done here. Wishing you all the best.

 

California

[California]

3 hours ago, transplantedphil said:

 

It's not slander if the patient is willing to provide information. Dr Bhatti came on the forum, attacked the patient and released the patient's image without consent. 

HnW, Rahal, Feriduni Bisanga, Fretias, Lorenzo, Path, Laowing, Keser, Kaan, HLC, HDC; all amazing non US based HT clinics. I could continue ad nauseum but yet again you've failed to understand the point of this thread (read the title) and my arguments within them.

 I guess it's up to others to decide what the purpose of your posts were. 

"It's not slander if the patient is willing to provide information".....really? No sense in arguing this further. Please believe what you want to believe. Thank you.