See-through hair

[Julius]

Hi there I ask this question as a person seriously considering hair transplantation and in no way to discredit hair transplantation; Who here has had a hair transplant that can stand up to harsh lighting including full sunlight and not produce the see-through look? I would primarily like to hear from people who can say ???yes, me???, thank you.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Julius,

 

Truthfully, only the rare patient's hair transplant of "true density" can stand up completely under harsh lighting without any see-through effect.

 

Even after 9600 grafts over a Norwood 5A/6, certain really harsh lighting makes my hair appear thinner than it actually is under normal lighting conditions. On the flip side, certain lighting makes my hair appear as thick as it used to be in high school.

 

I know a few guys with minimal hair loss who've received ultra dense packing achieving densities as high as 70 to 80 FU/cm2 with terrific growth yield. It would be interesting to hear from some of these patients, but I suspect that their hair stands up a whole lot better under harsh lighting as patients with 40 FU/cm2.

 

Remember that hair transplantation is not perfect. But even though it may appear thinner under harsh lighting, under normal lighting conditions, a good hair transplant will appear natural and give a patient more hair than he would have had without it.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Julius]

Thanks Bill, it maybe the truth but it's not what I was hoping to hear. The pictures of Shuffle in full sunlight outdoors and a select few seem to contradict this though, and even though Shuffle had dense packing it was not super dense packing at true density. Surely there are others whose ht can stand up to harsh lighting including full sunlight and not produce the see-through look and their chiming in here would be greatly appreciated. You never know Bill in a few more months the way your 4th ht is going you may be one of them.

[mattj]

I had to go and find Shuffle... He has an amazing result, but he wears his hair quite long and all that mass of hair provides a barrier to the light hitting his scalp. With shorter hair, combed through slowly and filmed closer up under strong sunlight, I think you'd see through it to an extent.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Ya, I'd agree that most will not have true-density in which hair will be non-see-through in almost any condition. With a world-class HT, however, many can reach enough density to where they can style their hair in a pleasing way and achieve a good density-illusion.

 

It's really a numbers game, over the backdrop of your hair charachteristics and scalp-contrast (both of which can be improved to some degree through styling, IMHO).

 

For a while, even under the most brutal conditions, my density appeared "flawless" without having to do much beside put in some wax and spike it. With continued loss, this is not the case anymore, and I have stumbled backwards a bit on the illusion's scale.

 

It's important to note that the HT truly is for most a journey, and you have to be willing to accept that you may very well have to adapt to dynamic conditions such as continued loss.

 

Re: myself, currently....I'm styling my hair forward with a ton of texturizing done to it, and my hair looks non-see-through. Ironically, I actually prefer how I look with this style these days, so sometimes a changing of the tide and adapting to the HT isn't a total downer anyways.

[Julius]

I definitely agree that styling such as in shuffle's case is a factor in improving the illusion of density. However for thana to say that "for a while, even under the most brutal conditions, my density appeared 'flawless'" certainly makes me think that there are possibly those out there whose hair loss has halted or is so slow as to allow this for an extended period and I would certainly love to hear from them.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Julius, just to clarify that statement some....it only appeared that way when I styled it. Of course, styling it is something I would do HT or no HT, so it's not a detriment to *have* to style your hair, or your HT, in my opinion.

 

But even when my hair appeared fully dense under harsh lighting, I was still operating within an illusion.

 

I think what kills HTs, or conversely makes them, are how you style them, which again, I don't consider to even be a negative, per say, as styling your hair is something that is a benefit whether you have MPB or not. It simply becomes more essential when you do.

 

Lighting conditions are certainly very important, too, but while I do feel that some HTs can indeed stand up to harsh/brutal lighting, I think it is truly a *very* rare HT that can actually stand up to harsh/brutal "styling".

 

It's all a bit subjective, too, when you get really particular about what constitutes "thin", and the debate goes on amongst even esteemed doctors when deciding what they feel gives off the full illusion of density.

[Julius]

I totally know what you mean about the subjective nature of hts eg. 1 or 2 pass procedures & sagittals vs laterals.

 

IMO the undercut seems to work well or any styling where the hair is styled forward and flat while hair spiked back is harder to pull off. Cheers

[Severn]

Being able to see through the hair isn't that big of a deal. I've seen guys without hair loss that just happen to have low density.

 

But the big question is, would someone look at you and say "That guy has thin hair", or would they say "That guy looks like he had a transplant".

[mattj]

I've looked down at passing children and noticed see-through hair if the lighting is right and the hair is styled in such a way that lets the light in. Needless to say that the same is true of adults.

[Julius]

Severn and mattj you both make a good point, so I guess it comes down to naturalness and how it blends in the with pre existing hair of one's natural density.

[Atomic]

The whole illusion of density thing is that from the front your hair will appear dense while on inspection from the top or in overhead lighting it will be see thru.

[Atomic]

This is a good example of the "illusion". From the front it appears dense but anyone who has watched Jon Goselin on his reality show have seen how see thru his HT is from the top view.

[Julius]

Thanks for alerting me to that his hair definitely looks better now, it was performed by Dr Rassman and Dr Jae Pak, it's amazing that the wife wanted him to do it. However I think some may debate that hts "on inspection from the top or in overhead lighting it will be see thru", especially those with beneficial characteristics or who have had dense packing.

[Atomic]

However I think some may debate that hts "on inspection from the top or in overhead lighting it will be see thru", especially those with beneficial characteristics or who have had dense packing.

 

No one debating that fact yet.

[Julius]

Atomic you may be right and in that case I would be very disheartened. I am not saying every ht can do this just a select few (mostly dense packed with favourable characteristics). I am sure you know a lot more about hts as you have had one, I remembered you saying that you were going back for a second to improve density. Nevertheless having seen the results of spex, biscuit, shuffle, NicNitro in full sunlight I had the impression which the pictures certainly give that on inspection from the top or in overhead lighting it will not be see through. I would be elated to hear from people like Danny Noonan, evolution, BadhairUK and bushy whose photos also suggest this may not be an issue for them.

[Atomic]

Julius my friend, I certainly don't want to burst your bubble, but you can't ignore what the posters above have also said. Like Bill & thana.

 

I doubt that even NicNitro who is a "showcase" for H&W, has non see-thru hair from the top down in harsh or sunlight. If you look at his pics they are not in harsh light & the pics are not from the top downn.

Even H&W take pics that are going to show thier patients in a "Good Light" so to speak.

 

I would also like to hear from others who claim to have a no see-thru HT. Assuming they are starting out with a bald scalp.

 

If your expectations are to high you are only setting yourself up for a let down.

 

What is your situation Julius? HT soon? Pics?

[Al - Moderator]

Even NicNitro admitted to having a few spots that he wished were a little thicker. I remember there was an area towards one side that was noticeably thin on him... although he did have a really great result overall.

 

Anyway... what's needed for a great result like that is to have thick hair on the sides of your head that grows high up on the sides, so that the area on top to be covered is not so wide.

 

Even if you do have that now, you don't really know if, when, how much the sides will recede as time goes by which could make it look not as great after a few years.

[Julius]

Thanks BeHappy, I do remember NicNitro saying there was a spot on the back that was a little thin which he was thinking of fixing with fue. I know he posts here sometimes and I would certainly be grateful if he chimed in here.

 

Atomic,I am starting to think that you are right and if that is the case you were certainly doing me a big favour by bursting my bubble.

 

And if hair transplantation clinics are only taking pictures of their patients in good lights then shame on them. It is false advertising and for even coalition doctors, some who claim to be taking their pictures under fluorescent lighting, with no product, the way a patient naturally wears it is despicable. This is costly and permanent for us!

 

Unfortunately I started balding at twenty-four and am now twenty-six. I live in Australia along way for any doctors recommended on this forum. Many of whom about a year ago recommended I need about 2 500 grafts. Cheers

 

p.s. I would love to inflate the shattered remains of my bubble by hearing from anyone with a ht who on inspection from the top or in overhead lighting will be non see-thru

[thanatopsis_awry]

Julius, there are for sure many people who have had HTs who fit that criteria and can be seen overhead, under lighting, and be fine. It's a numbers game over the backdrop of your hair charachteristics, and for some the result of the permutation is a totally full look.

 

But the case will almost always be this with hair restoration -- unless you restore *true* density (i.e. basically what you had pre-MPB) you will *always* be able to work your hair in such a way that will expose your MPB.

 

It is just determining where on this continiuum you will find yourself, and then asking yourself if the improvement is worth it.

[Julius]

for sure many people who have had HTs who fit that criteria and can be seen overhead, under lighting, and be fine

 

Thanks again thana, I get you when you say hts are a numbers game. When you say unless you restore true density you will always be able to work your hair in such a way that will expose your MPB; I would find this ok if for example one was to part a line from the transplanted to the native hair under bright fluorescent light and compare the two thus exposing mpb. But not if someone got up and ran a comb through their hair a couple of times then went outside to enjoy a nice sunny day, only to appear see-through. Cheers mate

[Julius]

Atomic unless this is taken from a very deceptive camera angle there is no way his hair as seen here would appear see-through in full sunlight:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BvdBQL6fmI

 

It may however may be exposed if one was to part a line from the transplanted to the native hair under bright fluorescent light and compare the two thus exposing mpb.

 

I still am not unequivocal however and would be greatly relieved to hear from those themselves whose ht can stand up to harsh lighting including full sunlight and not produce the see-through look. Cheers

[thanatopsis_awry]

Julius, it's a numbers game PLUS your hair charachteristics -- which play a role in even people without MPB, but exponentially so with people who do.

 

I get what you're saying about the metric for what it really means to be able to "expose" any HT. The question is, which you pose, is how difficult and what is means on an individual to be able to "expose" thinness. As you said, it's one thing to deliberately go about making the HT look bad, which really can be done for most any.

 

I think many HTs, however, fall on the other side of the spectrum, which you referenced, and not a whole lot has to be done to make their hair look good and be OK to go out and not be "see-thru".

 

When Spex posted "Tubs" result I thought of you, as his afters are shown top-down/sunlight. And Tubs *wasnt* an easy case, either, in that he had a lot of real estate to cover and he has gone about attacking it in but one procedure.

 

When you deal on people who are NW5+ it becomes increasingly difficult, IMHO, to achieve the density/coverage that you desire over an entire scalp. Unless, of course, you are dealing with people with great donors and they get enough grafts, and don't have bad hair charachteristics.

 

Going NW5+ can, in turn, be greatly delayed through fin, assuming your pattern even goes that far, and also assuming you don't quite have the donor to achieve "non-see-thruness" all over, crown included.

 

edit -- speaking for myself, if i spike my hair up all over i have a bit of see-thruness these days, as i have continued to thin within my native hair over the past year...since i began to style my hair extremely texturized and going forward (which i actually now prefer as a look as a whole), however, I have no "see-thruness", and it's quite easy to maintain.

[Julius]

Thana I agree that once you get past a Norwood 5 it is near impossible to avoid the see-through look in harsh lighting except for those with special characteristics. I think it's great that you can produce no "see-thruness" with an ease of maintenance by brushing it forward. I would think only like one in a million who has had a ht could get away with the spiked look in harsh lighting or full sunlight and not look see-through. I have an Asian friend with no mpb who in full sunlight with his hair spiked up looks a bit see-through though totally natural.

Tub's photos were fantastic and it would sure be great to see more like them from other forum members who have had a ht.

 

Still wanting to hear from those themselves whose ht can stand up to harsh lighting including full sunlight and not produce the see-through look. Cheers

[mattj]

Originally posted by Julius:

Atomic unless this is taken from a very deceptive camera angle there is no way his hair as seen here would appear see-through in full sunlight:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BvdBQL6fmI

 

It may however may be exposed if one was to part a line from the transplanted to the native hair under bright fluorescent light and compare the two thus exposing mpb.

 

I still am not unequivocal however and would be greatly relieved to hear from those themselves whose ht can stand up to harsh lighting including full sunlight and not produce the see-through look. Cheers

 

It's obviously an impressive result, but he's moving it around so fast that it's impossible to get a proper look. It also doesn't look like very strong sunlight.