Need major help and advice regarding clinic in Europe

[Optimistic1]

Hi all, please help I need lots of advice on which clinic to choose for my first ever ht and if anyone has had any experiences with these clinics or can offer an opinion on them or any others would be a great help!

 

I want to do my ht either in Europe. My first choice is to do it in Germany. or if you have any other suggestions in Belgium, Hungary, Netherlands in any other European country.

 

I may need from 2500 to 3000 grafts and I want to pay no more than 7000 Euro included food and accommodation.

[mikeyhwk]

Hi all, please help I need lots of advice on which clinic to choose for my first ever ht and if anyone has had any experiences with these clinics or can offer an opinion on them or any others would be a great help!

 

I want to do my ht either in Europe. My first choice is to do it in Germany. or if you have any other suggestions in Belgium, Hungary, Netherlands in any other European country.

 

I may need from 2500 to 3000 grafts and I want to pay no more than 7000 Euro included food and accommodation.

 

Wait and save more money. 7k for 3k grafts is around 2.3 euro, only guy close to that is Erdogan in Turkey and even he is higher than that at 2.5 so if you increase your budget slightly that is probably your man. Belgium you're looking at closer to 4-5 euro per graft. Germany and Netherlands dont have a lot in the way of options, the 2 docs I know in those countries are also closer to Belgian pricing. Cyprus is in between Erdogan and Belgian pricing but still around 3.5 euro.

[Frank27]

I'm booked in with Dr Villnow in Dusselldorf Germany this September. Why don't you consult with him. He isn't very well known on here but well worth looking into.

 

People will always tell you it's not about the money and of course they are correct but there is always a limit of what we can afford. As long as you aren't shopping for the cheapest then you'll be fine as long as you do vast research and educate yourself before making a decision. Do not rush.

[Optimistic1]

I don't know but I have found some clinics offer prices suitable to my budget

 

1- Dr De Reys in Belgium.

2- Arenamed in Germany.

3- Hairpalace in Hungary.

 

Do you recommend any of them ??

[Optimistic1]

I'm booked in with Dr Villnow in Dusselldorf Germany this September. Why don't you consult with him. He isn't very well known on here but well worth looking into.

 

People will always tell you it's not about the money and of course they are correct but there is always a limit of what we can afford. As long as you aren't shopping for the cheapest then you'll be fine as long as you do vast research and educate yourself before making a decision. Do not rush.

 

How much will you pay for it with Dr. Villnow and will he perform the operation personally or Dr Gerke?

[Frank27]

My procedure will be carried out by Dr Villnow himself. I will be doing a journal on here too.

I would suggest consulting with him. They're very professional, knowledgable and reassuring. But please do not rush your decision.

 

I had my first FUE with Dr Hakan Dogonay with mediocre results. He has some bad press but he does post some solid results. I wasn't one of those results but it wasn't a bad result just a little underwhelming. Expectation is key too. You have to be realistic. A top surgeon should explain to you if your expectations can be met or not.

[Optimistic1]

My procedure will be carried out by Dr Villnow himself. I will be doing a journal on here too.

 

I search about clinics over past two months. I hope your replies would help me to take my decision.

 

what do you mean with doing journal?

[Frank27]

I will be uploading a photo journal on here detailing my progress. Your best bet is to consult with him to see what your options are, talk about your expectations and to see if you are a good candidate. He also does body hair transplantation which can always be an added bonus.

 

Consult with as many surgeons as you can and you might just get a good feeling from one. I researched for over a year the first time round. Consulted with probably 10-15 surgeons and sometimes completely different feedback. One surgeon recommending 4000 grafts and another only 1500. Things can differ massively between surgeons

[mikeyhwk]

I'm booked in with Dr Villnow in Dusselldorf Germany this September. Why don't you consult with him. He isn't very well known on here but well worth looking into.

 

People will always tell you it's not about the money and of course they are correct but there is always a limit of what we can afford. As long as you aren't shopping for the cheapest then you'll be fine as long as you do vast research and educate yourself before making a decision. Do not rush.

 

Dr Villnow was the one doc I knew from Germany but I thought his pricing was significantly higher if he did it himself than the ops budget. His partner would be equivalent of Erdogan at 2.5 euro which is still outside his budget and for a doc who doesn't have nearly the track record or pedigree of Dr E.

Edited June 28, 2017 by mikeyhwk

[mikeyhwk]

I don't know but I have found some clinics offer prices suitable to my budget

 

1- Dr De Reys in Belgium.

2- Arenamed in Germany.

3- Hairpalace in Hungary.

 

Do you recommend any of them ??

 

Personally speaking I dont know numbers 2 and 3, De Reys does nice but extremely conservative work, he is a capable doctor. I know budgets are relevant you can't spend more than you have but you do get what you pay for. to a large degree, you can only save so much before you're getting tech mills and unknown docs. This surgery even in the hands of experienced surgeons is not guaranteed to work but you want to give yourself the best chance for success. Donors are limited so taking chances on relative unknowns just because it fits your budget is unwise. I'm not saying that options 2 and 3 aren't good choices they could be but do your research and see a lot of patient experiences and dont just take the word of their reps. De Reys has a long track record and is at least a safe known doc. You're close in price range to one of the best fue docs in the world in Erdogan I would at least consider consulting there and spending the little extra to get there than save a few bucks. If you can go to 7k a few months longer saving to get to 7500 should be doable and land you with Dr Erdogan.

[Optimistic1]

Thanks guys for your replies

 

So what if I raise my budget to 8000 Euro .. what are your suggestions ?

[mikeyhwk]

Thanks guys for your replies

 

So what if I raise my budget to 8000 Euro .. what are your suggestions ?

 

If you need 3k grafts, that gives you a top end of 2.7ish per graft

 

in that price range

 

Dr Erdogan is easily the best talent for the price

 

Dr Saifi in Poland does excellent work, like dr Reyes known to be a conservative doc but if you search his name you'll see a few threads, one is ongoing currently, romper stomper had a good one as well

 

Dr De Reys I already spoke about

 

potentially villnow if you can get him at his colleagues prices, apparently that requires keeping an online experience report, if that is something you are willing to do then he could be an option.

 

there are other turkish docs, and some approved here but if you read the forum you'll see a few less than impressive results coming from them and I wouldn't venture outside of Erdogan in turkey, unless it was for Keser who comes at a higher price point. If you're willing to travel to India you can find another couple of reliable yet affordable options.

[Optimistic1]

May I know what do you mean with conservative docs ? Is it good or bad for their patients?

[mikeyhwk]

May I know what do you mean with conservative docs ? Is it a good or bad for their patients?

 

A conservative doc is one that tends to err on the side of using less grafts than being spendy with them. The results can be at times a little thin if they're not dead on. An aggressive doc tends to go the other route and can usually get more density because he's willing to use more grafts the downside is less available donors down the road so it really depends on your level of loss and potential progression going forward, whether you're on meds and age, level of minaturization, it all plays into that. Dr Erdogan is an example of an aggressive doctor, look at his results and they are usually dense and well done but his estimates and graft counts are on the high end. Dr Saifi and De Reys are both well known for being conservative, to put in perspective using myself as an example when I did my hairline my average estimate consult was 2k grafts needed, if I wanted to go really dense 2500...Erdogan quoted me 3k and Saifi 1700...so you can see their tendencies in the estimates. I didn't use either, I went with Dr Bisanga in Belgium and we went right in the middle with 2500.

[spitfire uk]

Have a look at Dr Jean Devroye in Belgium , his work seems quality and prices ok.

Seems to go under the radar a bit with Bisanga the big Belgian brand most known , I've admired Devroyes work a while now and if I get more work done I'd speak to him for sure.

[Frank27]

I had the same experience consulting with Dr Saiffi. He estimated 1500 grafts for density whereas Dr Yaman estimated 4000. Massive difference. Dr Villnow is in the middle at 2800 grafts.

 

Also see what the level of consultation is like. If it feels personal and detailed and your questions are answered you may get a good feel from them.

 

As I have consulted with many doctors and for me personally I have found some pros and cons with all of them. Remember these are just my personal views from consultations and research

 

Dr De Reys:

 

pros- good location, very personal and not technician based (his wife is his assistant), very good reputation online, pricing very reasonable

 

Cons - conservative approach if looking for a significant procedure, surgery will take a very long time as he does not have a large team (also a pro depends how you look at it) Not too many recent cases on the forums, a lot of them are from around 2014.

 

Dr Villnow - pros: very experienced, not technician based, very good level of consultation and understanding, online cases look very good,

 

Cons: not very much of his work online, price is slightly higher than many of the Turkish doctors,

 

Dr Hakan Dogonay- pros: price is very reasonable, has some very strong results online, appears to be improving after some poor results, was once regarded as a top class doctor

 

Cons: reputation online was very bad a year ago after some poor results, communication is very short and abrupt, has been known that technicians have been doing most of the work.

 

Dr Saiffi - pros: good reputation online, communication is very good he even called me to discuss my expectations. He was very confident that you do not need a high number of grafts to show density. He says it's all about angle and placement.

 

Cons: personally I prefer a more aggressive approach and higher graft numbers. He wants you to use a laser comb of which I do not believe in. The waiting list is very long and also the price is slightly on the high side

 

Dr Yaman -

pros: recommended on here. Aggressive approach to graft numbers. Price is very good for a recommended surgeon.

 

Cons: is technician based, I haven't seen many full 1 year results on here as most of his results on here are very early stages. Communication is slow and I somewhat lost confidence due to the slow nature of the replies.

 

Dr Cinik

Pros: price is very very low, some good reviews on here

 

Cons: is a technician clinic with every patient paying the same amount of money. Seems fairly new to the community and not many full 1 year results online.

 

Dr Erdogan - pros: world renowned reputation. Amazing results and consistently amazing results posted online

 

Cons: price is a touch higher than others (but still pretty good)

 

Dr Bhatti (India)

Pros: very good reputation online, price very good, a happy medium of graft estimation, does beard hair

 

Cons: a few complaints online from a small number of patients. Also depending on where you live it is very hard to get a direct flight. From the UK I couldn't find a good flight from any London airport.

 

 

I must stress this is from my own research and my own consultations.

[Shera]

I had the same experience consulting with Dr Saiffi. He estimated 1500 grafts for density whereas Dr Yaman estimated 4000. Massive difference. Dr Villnow is in the middle at 2800 grafts.

 

Also see what the level of consultation is like. If it feels personal and detailed and your questions are answered you may get a good feel from them.

 

As I have consulted with many doctors and for me personally I have found some pros and cons with all of them. Remember these are just my personal views from consultations and research

 

Dr De Reys:

 

pros- good location, very personal and not technician based (his wife is his assistant), very good reputation online, pricing very reasonable

 

Cons - conservative approach if looking for a significant procedure, surgery will take a very long time as he does not have a large team (also a pro depends how you look at it) Not too many recent cases on the forums, a lot of them are from around 2014.

 

Dr Villnow - pros: very experienced, not technician based, very good level of consultation and understanding, online cases look very good,

 

Cons: not very much of his work online, price is slightly higher than many of the Turkish doctors,

 

Dr Hakan Dogonay- pros: price is very reasonable, has some very strong results online, appears to be improving after some poor results, was once regarded as a top class doctor

 

Cons: reputation online was very bad a year ago after some poor results, communication is very short and abrupt, has been known that technicians have been doing most of the work.

 

Dr Saiffi - pros: good reputation online, communication is very good he even called me to discuss my expectations. He was very confident that you do not need a high number of grafts to show density. He says it's all about angle and placement.

 

Cons: personally I prefer a more aggressive approach and higher graft numbers. He wants you to use a laser comb of which I do not believe in. The waiting list is very long and also the price is slightly on the high side

 

Dr Yaman -

pros: recommended on here. Aggressive approach to graft numbers. Price is very good for a recommended surgeon.

 

Cons: is technician based, I haven't seen many full 1 year results on here as most of his results on here are very early stages. Communication is slow and I somewhat lost confidence due to the slow nature of the replies.

 

Dr Cinik

Pros: price is very very low, some good reviews on here

 

Cons: is a technician clinic with every patient paying the same amount of money. Seems fairly new to the community and not many full 1 year results online.

 

Dr Erdogan - pros: world renowned reputation. Amazing results and consistently amazing results posted online

 

Cons: price is a touch higher than others (but still pretty good)

 

Dr Bhatti (India)

Pros: very good reputation online, price very good, a happy medium of graft estimation, does beard hair

 

Cons: a few complaints online from a small number of patients. Also depending on where you live it is very hard to get a direct flight. From the UK I couldn't find a good flight from any London airport.

 

 

I must stress this is from my own research and my own consultations.

 

 

Hi Frank,

 

If you decide to fly to India, then direct flights are available to Delhi or Mumbai from London. To get to Chandigarh you would have to get a connecting flight from Delhi (1 hour flight) or Mumbai (2 hour flight). Most connecting flights are in the late morning or early afternoon so it's best to fly out from the UK on an evening flight.

 

You can book this all in via Jet Airways, Air India or Virgin Airways. Or you can just get a separate connecting flight from Delhi or Mumbai with an internal carrier such as Spice Jet or GoIndigo for about ?40 return. In some cases I do plan the trip for patients including booking their flights and processing visas. If you need any assistance then please feel free to ask.

[Shuriken]

Thanks for this thread. Personally I am saving and eyeing on Asmed. I haven't read a single bad review so far. It should be worth the money.

[Optimistic1]

I had the same experience consulting with Dr Saiffi. He estimated 1500 grafts for density whereas Dr Yaman estimated 4000. Massive difference. Dr Villnow is in the middle at 2800 grafts.

 

Also see what the level of consultation is like. If it feels personal and detailed and your questions are answered you may get a good feel from them.

 

As I have consulted with many doctors and for me personally I have found some pros and cons with all of them. Remember these are just my personal views from consultations and research

 

Dr De Reys:

 

pros- good location, very personal and not technician based (his wife is his assistant), very good reputation online, pricing very reasonable

 

Cons - conservative approach if looking for a significant procedure, surgery will take a very long time as he does not have a large team (also a pro depends how you look at it) Not too many recent cases on the forums, a lot of them are from around 2014.

 

Dr Villnow - pros: very experienced, not technician based, very good level of consultation and understanding, online cases look very good,

 

Cons: not very much of his work online, price is slightly higher than many of the Turkish doctors,

 

Dr Hakan Dogonay- pros: price is very reasonable, has some very strong results online, appears to be improving after some poor results, was once regarded as a top class doctor

 

Cons: reputation online was very bad a year ago after some poor results, communication is very short and abrupt, has been known that technicians have been doing most of the work.

 

Dr Saiffi - pros: good reputation online, communication is very good he even called me to discuss my expectations. He was very confident that you do not need a high number of grafts to show density. He says it's all about angle and placement.

 

Cons: personally I prefer a more aggressive approach and higher graft numbers. He wants you to use a laser comb of which I do not believe in. The waiting list is very long and also the price is slightly on the high side

 

Dr Yaman -

pros: recommended on here. Aggressive approach to graft numbers. Price is very good for a recommended surgeon.

 

Cons: is technician based, I haven't seen many full 1 year results on here as most of his results on here are very early stages. Communication is slow and I somewhat lost confidence due to the slow nature of the replies.

 

Dr Cinik

Pros: price is very very low, some good reviews on here

 

Cons: is a technician clinic with every patient paying the same amount of money. Seems fairly new to the community and not many full 1 year results online.

 

Dr Erdogan - pros: world renowned reputation. Amazing results and consistently amazing results posted online

 

Cons: price is a touch higher than others (but still pretty good)

 

Dr Bhatti (India)

Pros: very good reputation online, price very good, a happy medium of graft estimation, does beard hair

 

Cons: a few complaints online from a small number of patients. Also depending on where you live it is very hard to get a direct flight. From the UK I couldn't find a good flight from any London airport.

 

 

I must stress this is from my own research and my own consultations.

 

Thanks for this detailed reply that would help me for sure

 

Thanks all guys for all your replies.

[Optimistic1]

A conservative doc is one that tends to err on the side of using less grafts than being spendy with them. The results can be at times a little thin if they're not dead on. An aggressive doc tends to go the other route and can usually get more density because he's willing to use more grafts the downside is less available donors down the road so it really depends on your level of loss and potential progression going forward, whether you're on meds and age, level of minaturization, it all plays into that. Dr Erdogan is an example of an aggressive doctor, look at his results and they are usually dense and well done but his estimates and graft counts are on the high end. Dr Saifi and De Reys are both well known for being conservative, to put in perspective using myself as an example when I did my hairline my average estimate consult was 2k grafts needed, if I wanted to go really dense 2500...Erdogan quoted me 3k and Saifi 1700...so you can see their tendencies in the estimates. I didn't use either, I went with Dr Bisanga in Belgium and we went right in the middle with 2500.

 

So, choosing an aggressive doc will help you to get dense results.

 

But if I choose a conservative doc, the results may be more thin that predicted. In the other side, I will not waste a lot of grafts which I may need it for another surgery. You know that you have a certain number of grafts you can get from the donor area.

Also, I have the option to do another hair transplantation surgery, if I want to improve the results.

 

So, the conservative attitude from the doctors is not always a negative thing in my opinion.

What do you think about that ?

[Frank27]

I think it's all down to personal opinion on the topic of agressive vs conservative. I personally prefer a more aggressive approach. My reason being is that I would rather feel like I've had a more drastic improvement and the fact that it can take 18 months for a transplant result to show so I would not want to do it many smaller sessions because then I may not have my desired result for a few years. That's my own view. A conservative approach can also have its benefits but not for me.

[superdudeo]

I had the same experience consulting with Dr Saiffi. He estimated 1500 grafts for density whereas Dr Yaman estimated 4000. Massive difference. Dr Villnow is in the middle at 2800 grafts.

 

Also see what the level of consultation is like. If it feels personal and detailed and your questions are answered you may get a good feel from them.

 

As I have consulted with many doctors and for me personally I have found some pros and cons with all of them. Remember these are just my personal views from consultations and research

 

Dr De Reys:

 

pros- good location, very personal and not technician based (his wife is his assistant), very good reputation online, pricing very reasonable

 

Cons - conservative approach if looking for a significant procedure, surgery will take a very long time as he does not have a large team (also a pro depends how you look at it) Not too many recent cases on the forums, a lot of them are from around 2014.

 

Dr Villnow - pros: very experienced, not technician based, very good level of consultation and understanding, online cases look very good,

 

Cons: not very much of his work online, price is slightly higher than many of the Turkish doctors,

 

Dr Hakan Dogonay- pros: price is very reasonable, has some very strong results online, appears to be improving after some poor results, was once regarded as a top class doctor

 

Cons: reputation online was very bad a year ago after some poor results, communication is very short and abrupt, has been known that technicians have been doing most of the work.

 

Dr Saiffi - pros: good reputation online, communication is very good he even called me to discuss my expectations. He was very confident that you do not need a high number of grafts to show density. He says it's all about angle and placement.

 

Cons: personally I prefer a more aggressive approach and higher graft numbers. He wants you to use a laser comb of which I do not believe in. The waiting list is very long and also the price is slightly on the high side

 

Dr Yaman -

pros: recommended on here. Aggressive approach to graft numbers. Price is very good for a recommended surgeon.

 

Cons: is technician based, I haven't seen many full 1 year results on here as most of his results on here are very early stages. Communication is slow and I somewhat lost confidence due to the slow nature of the replies.

 

Dr Cinik

Pros: price is very very low, some good reviews on here

 

Cons: is a technician clinic with every patient paying the same amount of money. Seems fairly new to the community and not many full 1 year results online.

 

Dr Erdogan - pros: world renowned reputation. Amazing results and consistently amazing results posted online

 

Cons: price is a touch higher than others (but still pretty good)

 

Dr Bhatti (India)

Pros: very good reputation online, price very good, a happy medium of graft estimation, does beard hair

 

Cons: a few complaints online from a small number of patients. Also depending on where you live it is very hard to get a direct flight. From the UK I couldn't find a good flight from any London airport.

 

 

I must stress this is from my own research and my own consultations.

 

 

Some great info there Frank which has spurred me onto contacting a few clinics. I think you've been a bit harsh on Dr Saifi. He seems to be the cheapest in europe at his skill level, conservative yes but I'd prefer that than Dr Yaman who doesn't seem to plan for the future.

 

The Villnow clinic is still a bit of an unknown quantity in my opinion.