Dr Shapiro or Dr Wong.

[Drew35]

I have significant hair loss. I am a Norwood 6 and probably on my way to Norwood 7.

 

I am trying to decide between Dr Shapiro or Dr Wong.

 

Dr Shapiro does a phenomenal hair line, but Dr Wong is more aggressive and is able to transplant larger amounts of grafts in 1 session.

 

 

Also, Dr Wong does a lateral slit incision and Dr Shapiro does a sagital slit incision.

 

Do any of you have opinions on which is the better technique for someone with significant hair loss?

[Dewayne]

Everybody knows about H&W, but here's a nice 3400+ in one session by Shapiro; just to be fair:

 

http://hair-restoration-info.c...1087683/m/5631050493

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Those are two of the best docs out there.

One thing I REALLY like abut Shapiro Medical is they also do fue.

Alot of us have a small area or two that bothers us after strip surgery that could easily be fixed with 25-50 grafts.

At Shapiro you can go in a have this done like it was a walk in the park.

With clinics that just offer strip youll either have to deal with it or get sliced back open.

Ive had both surgeries and believe me there is a HUGE difference.

Lorenzo is right that pic isnt the greatest .

Ive seen a ton more myself that shows how special Shapiro is.

Good luck as you cant go wrong with either

 

Oh yeah as far as slits there was a conference where both these docs performed each slit on each side of the head and there was no difference.

If Bill knows what happened to it it would be nice if you could post it .

When I tried it said error

[uncjim]

Drew,

Don't discount Dr. Wong's hairline work, it's second to none. Check my blog.

 

As far as choosing one over the other, or who's better, etc., that's a choice you're going to have to make after doing your own level of research and understanding your needs. In my opinion, everyone's decision ends up being somewhat subjective. I concur with all of the members, both are fine doctors.

UNC

[Guest wanthairs]

Drew---

 

You are a NWD 6

 

You need a doctor who can move the most amount of strip and grafts in one session. I havent heard of a clinic that beats the Hasson and Wong record.

 

I needed a second transplant and several docs told me they could only move 1500-2000 grafts. Dr. Hasson moved 3600....

[Zup]

I agree no need to count Dr Wong out with hairlines....at the same time please do not assume Dr Shapiro on the appropriate patient, type 6-7 can not yield as many grafts as any physician can safely. The donor is a fixed area; one can only go so long with a strip and wide with a strip safely and entrap as much hair with in that strip as possible. The different at best would be possibly 5% in hair count, in that Dr Shapiro may not take it to the brink where he's concerned increase risk can occur in order to yield a few more hairs. Both clinics understand these principles.....Best of Luck

[Guest wanthairs]

I think I shall add here----

 

My first transplant from a doc other than those being discussed here resulted in 2900 grafts. Dr. Hasson told me he could have got 6000 out of me if I went to him first.

 

Also, my second transplant with Dr. hasson was much more pain free afterwards, no itching, far less complications than I had with the first one even though the strip was twice as wide and the growth has been far better than the first one. I have a fantastic hairline forming, which failed to materialise the first time.

 

In my intitial consult he told me he may be able to get 4000 grafts out. I told him I had a blank check, money was not an issue but to go for as much as he could, even 5000 if possible. In the end it was only 3600. But that is still double what I was told by three other docs. Double---around a 100% difference, much more than a 5% difference.

 

 

 

If you are debating whic of these two docs to see, go have a consult with both and then decide. Dont let price or travel be a factor. I did think of those things the first time round and wish I hadnt.

[Guest wanthairs]

lets add one more thing....

 

2068 grafts for Bill's 4th hair transplant is very impressive!!!

 

many docs can only pull 2000 on the first go.

[dakota3]

WOW this would be a tough decision but either way I bet you'd be happy with the outcome.

[thanatopsis_awry]

IMO, I've never seen a decisive explanation for H&W's superlative #s; other than, perhaps, a more rigorous and laborious strip extraction and closure technique that allows for larger if not more densely-targeted strips.

 

Also, it's interesting that it's not like it's just H&W and everyone else -- SMG, Feller, Rahal, e.g. -- consistently produce #s that dwarf what the majority of *other* clinics seem to produce.

 

Proof is in the pudding, and with that said Shapiro and Wong will both give you a world-class HT as they are both superlative clinics. At the same time, and I wouldn't take this as gospel, I couldn't honestly say to not tend towards Wong if you have a primary priority in getting as many grafts as possible in your first session. But it's not *just* a total #s game session to session.

 

Either way, I'd consult with both and ask for lots of pics of cases that would most likely be mimicking what yours would be from each clinic, respectively!

 

**btw, congrats Wanthairs on your op -- I wasn't sure when you went in or how many grafts ya got!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Please Grow Please,

 

I believe you are referring to the ISHRS Workshop - Perpendicular (Lateral/Coronal) Verses Paralel (Sagital) Incisions topic posted by Janna.

 

In my opinion, both doctors do excellent work and I wouldn't discount either of them for hairlines or megasessions.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Drew35]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Those are two of the best docs out there.

One thing I REALLY like abut Shapiro Medical is they also do fue.

Alot of us have a small area or two that bothers us after strip surgery that could easily be fixed with 25-50 grafts.

At Shapiro you can go in a have this done like it was a walk in the park.

With clinics that just offer strip youll either have to deal with it or get sliced back open.

Ive had both surgeries and believe me there is a HUGE difference.

Lorenzo is right that pic isnt the greatest .

Ive seen a ton more myself that shows how special Shapiro is.

Good luck as you cant go wrong with either

 

Oh yeah as far as slits there was a conference where both these docs performed each slit on each side of the head and there was no difference.

If Bill knows what happened to it it would be nice if you could post it .

When I tried it said error

 

Fantastic point Lorenzo!

 

With Dr Shapiro also offering FUE it gives me that option in the future.

[Drew35]

Originally posted by uncjim:

Drew,

Don't discount Dr. Wong's hairline work, it's second to none. Check my blog.

 

As far as choosing one over the other, or who's better, etc., that's a choice you're going to have to make after doing your own level of research and understanding your needs. In my opinion, everyone's decision ends up being somewhat subjective. I concur with all of the members, both are fine doctors.

UNC

 

Hi Jim,

 

Great hair! Dr Wong did a phenomenal job!

 

I especially liked the temple work.

 

 

I would like that, also.

 

Does anyone know if Dr Shapiro performs temple grafts?

[uncjim]

Drew,

Does anyone know if Dr Shapiro performs temple grafts?

 

That's a great question for him. Don't be shy about asking questions directly. It's your hair and your life.

 

Thanks for the compliment. Somehow, they never get stale.

UNC

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Yes he does temples .

I actually had 500 fue for temple points and the scar 5 months ago

I went strip first and now fue.

 

Im very happy with both surgeries.

I was a repair patient and my only regret is not finding SMG before the hacks that got ahold of me before him.

[Dr. Jerry Wong]

The key to doing large sessions for NW6 patients is maximizing the donor area to it's fullest potential with an eye on the future and having a large enough staff to handle the work load. It is true that this is a limited source of hair but how limited is up for debate and has been for years.

 

Thanatopsis_Awry described one of the reasons why Dr. Hasson and I can get the large numbers we are known for on a regular basis. When using a single blade scalpel it will take somewhere around and hour to an hour and a half for a typical strip removal. It takes this long for a few reasons but one of which is that I am maneuvering a single blade scalpel in between the hair bundles in the donor tissue so as to reduce the chance of donor transection as much as possible. This helps to greatly reduce the amount of damage in the donor area and increases the numbers of grafts that are safely moved.

 

Below is a measurement I took when preparing the donor area for a NW6 patient. The measurement was roughly 2.5cm in width. The patient had sufficient laxity to allow for such a wide strip and had been performing scalp exercises prior to his arrival to allow for a maximum harvest. The strip length was 29cm and the patient wound up with just less than 5400 grafts in one session. This means his average donor density was around 74 fu per cm2 but because densities vary in different parts of the scalp it was higher in some areas and less in others.

 

 

This photo is not meant to imply that every patient can get 5400 grafts or higher as this patient had higher than average laxity however I do find that patients are more inclined to receive 4000 to 4500 grafts in one session when they present average donor density and average donor laxity. This is not enough grafts for a typical NW6 to get full coverage but it allows for a much better result to be achieved before the second procedure for the crown area. The benefit here is that when more hair is taken safely in the first session the option for a second procedure is not as urgent.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Thanatopsis_Awry described one of the reasons why Dr. Hasson and I can get the large numbers we are known for on a regular basis. When using a single blade scalpel it will take somewhere around and hour to an hour and a half for a typical strip removal. It takes this long for a few reasons but one of which is that I am maneuvering a single blade scalpel in between the hair bundles in the donor tissue so as to reduce the chance of donor transection as much as possible. This helps to greatly reduce the amount of damage in the donor area and increases the numbers of grafts that are safely moved.

Thanks for the response but most good doctors do this.

Could you give us another reason that is different than other clinics for the higher numbers.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Please Grow Please,

 

The number of follicular units able to be harvested is directly related to the width and length of the strip and donor density. These principles are applied to all clinics, not just a few.

 

For instance, a 2.5cm wide and 30cm long strip with 70 FU/cm2 donor density (slightly below average) would yield roughly 5250 true follicular unit grafts in a single hair transplant megasession.

 

One huge debate between leading hair restoration physicians is whether or not wider strips can ever truly be harvested safely without increasing the risk of tension on the wound and inevitably, scar stretching. Many surgeons won't harvest a strip greater than 1.5cm, nor will some harvest a strip as long as 30cm. This significantly reduces the number of follicular units that can be harvested in a single procedure.

 

Of course, hair replacement clinics who dare to perform larger sessions must have the staff and experience to dissect and plant a multitude of follicular units within a reasonable time period to reduce the risk of grafts drying out and dying before they're implanted. So while some surgeons adhere to the philosophy that larger strips don't necessarily produce wider scars, many of them don't haven't equipped the staff to handle such large sessions.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I understand that but some seem to think they have a "special" technique to harvest more grafts.

Bottomline is they just take wider and longer strips.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Please Grow Please,

 

You are correct on the bottom line. However, each doctor has their own technique at strip harvesting. Some feel their individual technique allows them to harvest wider strips while actually minimizing tension on the wound, an apparent contradiction to some who believe that the wider the strip, the greater the tension period, no exceptions. Clearly however, there is a limit and a patient's scalp characteristics and limitations must be respected.

 

Bill

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I dont want to start anything but I find it funny that the measurement is the total shaved area .

They always shave wider then that.

I challenge Dr Wong to show me a strip of that length and width measured after being cut out.

If he can I will apologize

I remember when they were saying they take 2 cm strips to get these bigger numbers but after the math didnt add up its now all of a sudden 2.5

 

I also find it funny that in the huge number cases I blew up there were no 4s and very limited 3s implanted .

All 1s and 2s with maybe 5% 3s

Dont get me wrong they do a great job but imo the numbers are a huge marketing tool.

Bottomline again is they have happy patients and there are plenty other clinics that need to be criticized but the hype is a little overrated.

If they just provided hair counts like the other top clinics this would all be settled

[Drew35]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Yes he does temples .

I actually had 500 fue for temple points and the scar 5 months ago

I went strip first and now fue.

 

Im very happy with both surgeries.

I was a repair patient and my only regret is not finding SMG before the hacks that got ahold of me before him.

 

 

I would love to see that.

 

Please post your photos.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Im going back for crown work real soon and I will have them take plenty.

They have all my before so even if I took them theres nothing to compare them to

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Touchy ! Ok big boy how about start adding hair counts then.

I bet Ill be waiting forever .

Lorenzo would you like me tpo post a bunch of blown up photos showing no 4s and barely any 3s.

Give me the word and Ill open alot of eyes

 

For someone that just assist with translations youll awfully sensitive and seem to know alot about their practice Hmmmm.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

You know what there are much bigger fish to fry and H&W are not one of them.

I like FULL transparency ,not partial.

Not providing patients with total graft breakdowns is not transparent but what does matter is the final result.

This really bugs me about your clinic but I do like the results and Jotronic.

Actually Wong was my first choice so Im not out to "get" anyone

Barry Bonds is the homerun champ with the use of hgh . I still believe Hank Aaron is.