How many here went from NW2/3 to NW5/6 even AFTER being on Proscar ?

[EpilepticSceptic]

I guess I'm trying to sort of do a survey here to an extent. I'm curious to know how many in this community still progressed to an advanced Norwood stage even after being on Proscar for many years.

 

What I'd like to know is:

 

1) what NW level you were at when you started taking fin ?

 

2) how many years have you been taking it ?

 

3) has it halted the loss completely, or have you still progressed from NW2/3/4 to NW6/7 ?

 

4) if you did indeed progress to advanced NW from early NW, how many years did it take for this to happen while you were taking fin ?

 

 

I've been taking fin for over 10 years now, and I've managed to pretty well maintain between a NW3/4. 10 years ago I was definitely an early NW3v before I ever started taking the drug. I at first tried 12.5% minox and Nizoral shampoo with it, but 2 years later just quit the minox.

 

Today the only thing I still do to stop the hairloss is take the fin (1.25mg every other day). Where I still have hair on top it is quite healthy looking, not diffuse thinning at all. My frontal forelock has certainly thinned out more since 10 years ago, but at least a good portion of it is still there. And the hair behind that appears to be the same density as the MPB resistant hair on the sides and back.

 

I'm also 41 years old now.

[aaron1234]

I can certainly see the possibility of me going to a NW6 but I believe Fin has maintained my bridge and other hairs on top to prevent from going NW6 full blown. I hope it will keep my lateral humps as well. I've been on it for almost 4 years.

[MikeTheDane]

I was sort of wondering the same thing. My hairloss has stabilised the last 2 years, and a decent portion of the crown has regrown.

 

But who knows how long that's going to continue..

[EpilepticSceptic]

Yeah, I hope I posted this in the right section. I'd hoped that more would have responded by now.

 

To me this is the single most important issue facing the prospective HT patient today, and especially the one's under age 30. Will the finasteride work over the long term in preventing an advanced norwood condition from developing ?

 

It's the only reason I haven't had my HT yet. Many have told me I'm an excellent candidate for strip surgery, but I still worry about the finasteride suddenly becoming ineffective after 10 years use. And how quickly could I become a Norwood 6 if it stopped working ?

 

I just don't believe the majority of NW6 patients could get a result like Bill. And so if a patient has a HT today based around a healthy NW 3/4 condition, what happens if they progress to NW 6/7 ? You know, the top vanishes overnight and the sides drop too. What will the patient look like then ?

 

There are numerous NW6 patients I see on the blogs who have had HT surgery, and to me they look worse off than just being bald. They have this horribly thin, see-through hair on top and it's obvious that it is not natural. And you can still clearly see the entire bald head, and the patchy hair makes it look like they have a disease. And they are also stuck with not being able to shave down again due to the scar in the back -- a horrible place to be IMO, because 99.9% of women surveyed MUCH prefer a clean shaved head look rather than the combover balding look with that stupid monk fringe of hair !! That look is about as bad as being a 500 lb. beached whale !!!

 

Originally posted by MikeTheDane:

I was sort of wondering the same thing. My hairloss has stabilised the last 2 years, and a decent portion of the crown has regrown.

 

But who knows how long that's going to continue..

[aaron1234]

These are all valid concerns, ones which I have given much thought. I do believe that a good doctor will transplant assuming the medication won't hold up for ever. In the consultations I've had with elite doctors, they have all mentioned they would transplant me with the worst case scenario in mind. And true, not all NW6's will look as good as Bill. But I guarantee that most of the NW6's you see on the blogs didn't have 4 HT's done (2 of which were done by H&W). In short, if your worst case scenario is a NW6, then transplant accordingly.

[Al - Moderator]

There are numerous NW6 patients I see on the blogs who have had HT surgery, and to me they look worse off than just being bald. They have this horribly thin, see-through hair on top and it's obvious that it is not natural. And you can still clearly see the entire bald head, and the patchy hair makes it look like they have a disease. And they are also stuck with not being able to shave down again due to the scar in the back -- a horrible place to be IMO, because 99.9% of women surveyed MUCH prefer a clean shaved head look rather than the combover balding look with that stupid monk fringe of hair !! That look is about as bad as being a 500 lb. beached whale !!!

 

That is exactly the situation I'm in. I had a HT when I was NW 5 and ended up being NW 7, so now I have this huge balding area with some thin hair all over which can't cover any of it. The only option I have is to do a horrible combover that doesn't actually cover any area. I occasionally get comments from people telling me to just shave it all off, but I can't do that because I'm desperately trying to cover the scars by growing my hair longer than I'd like to. It's an extremely depressing situation to be in. And that is what is called a successful HT because the hair that moved did grow. I of course disagree. I feel it's all about whether the new look is actually better TO ME. Not whether x number of grafts grew and not just if it looks OK from certain angles or in certain light either.

[TC17]

This is why I feel that contrary to what is often stated on this forum, FUE is not being hyped enough. I'd much rather have "only" 3,000 grafts from FUE placed strategically over the front 1/2 of my head and buzz my hair short, rather than have more grafts from strip and worry incessantly about future loss, the strip scar showing, and losing the ability to buzz down.

 

I'm a NW 3v right now, and it oftentimes takes me a really long time to strategically do my hair to make it look as nice as possible. I have MUCH more hair now than 90% of all NW 6's, and 100% of all NW 7's we've seen transplanted on this site, I can only imagine how much effort goes into making their hair look nice.

 

I'm sick of having to check the sides, the back, the top, and adjusting my hair to cover thin areas. I'm sick of the effort involved with doing my hair. If I was happy with my hairline, I would buzz my hair short and say to hell with my thin crown. Unfortunately, I tried that last year and I looked terrible because of the way my hair is going in the front, but if I could FUE a nice hairline and keep the back bald, I'd rock that in a heartbeat.

 

I know my position is somewhat controversial, but I think in the face of an uncertain future, flexibility and freedom are the most important things. FUE gives more flexibility and more freedom than strip, albeit with its own drawbacks. In my opinion though, the drawbacks associated with FUE are far outweighed by the benefits of it, especially in younger patients.

[EpilepticSceptic]

"BeHappy",

 

What was your age when you were NW5 and had your HT ? And were you taking fin., but still ended up a NW7 anyway ?

 

 

"TC17",

 

How old are you ? I've been a NW3v for over 10 years now. I'm probably about NW3.5v now, and I'm 41. Most say I am a excellent HT candidate to get a result that looks full, and doesn't look like an obvious HT. I see guys that are heading to NW4 in their mid 20s getting HTs on these forums and I think that they must be crazy. They look great now, but what about 5 to 10 years from now ?

 

The predicament that "BeHappy" is in would be my worst nightmare! I know guys who are NW6, but they just shave down and grow a cool looking beard and get ripped. Some have cool tatoos and piercings that place them in the "hip" category for bald guys, and they still get cool chicks! These are chicks who would NOT even be seen with a combover dude sporting the monk fringe !!! Too many of these HT dudes that have decent hair look real conservative to me (churchgoer types, sorry no offense intended), and that is an image I would not be happy with even with Norwood 0 hair !! Being FORCED to look conservative and having a combover with the monk fringe, however, is the absolute WORST case scenario for somebody like me! There are lots of shaved head bald dudes I see that can still pull off the "bad boy" look, which is a magnet for chicks. But I'm interested in a HT because I think at my age and level of loss I could probably look really, really good. But how long that will last (even on fin)is the biggest dilemma holding me back !

 

This is why I want to know how many dudes on here still went to NW6/7 AFTER being on fin for the long haul -- and at WHAT AGE ???

[Marvin]

Propecia has only been around for what, 12 years? There might be many people who were taking it long-haul who might eventually turn into NW7's, but there just might not have been time for it to happen.

 

Anyone have the statistics from the Norwood study about how long it generally takes to reach NW7?

[MikeTheDane]

Originally posted by BeHappy:

There are numerous NW6 patients I see on the blogs who have had HT surgery, and to me they look worse off than just being bald. They have this horribly thin, see-through hair on top and it's obvious that it is not natural. And you can still clearly see the entire bald head, and the patchy hair makes it look like they have a disease. And they are also stuck with not being able to shave down again due to the scar in the back -- a horrible place to be IMO, because 99.9% of women surveyed MUCH prefer a clean shaved head look rather than the combover balding look with that stupid monk fringe of hair !! That look is about as bad as being a 500 lb. beached whale !!!

 

That is exactly the situation I'm in. I had a HT when I was NW 5 and ended up being NW 7, so now I have this huge balding area with some thin hair all over which can't cover any of it. The only option I have is to do a horrible combover that doesn't actually cover any area. I occasionally get comments from people telling me to just shave it all off, but I can't do that because I'm desperately trying to cover the scars by growing my hair longer than I'd like to. It's an extremely depressing situation to be in. And that is what is called a successful HT because the hair that moved did grow. I of course disagree. I feel it's all about whether the new look is actually better TO ME. Not whether x number of grafts grew and not just if it looks OK from certain angles or in certain light either.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. The big question I would like to know is: Were you on propecia from your NW5-->NW7 period?

 

If i were you, I would look into methods to reduce the visibility of the scar, and just shave down.

 

To me, A scar is alot more attractive than a weird cover-up.

[MikeTheDane]

Originally posted by labrat69:

I see guys that are heading to NW4 in their mid 20s getting HTs on these forums and I think that they must be crazy. They look great now, but what about 5 to 10 years from now ?

 

 

Well, only a small amount of the population turn into NW7's even if they bald early, and a good portion of NW6's can achieve good results.

 

That being said though, is it crazy to believe that shaving down, showing your scar to the world, isn't that big of a deal?

 

I've seen people with large scars after brainsurgery that looked alot worse, but somehow it was considered 'cool' because of story behind it. It was 'survival' not 'vanity'. That leads me to believe that it's not really the scar we care about, but rather why we got it. In which case, it's more of an inward journey.

[aaron1234]

If you bald more later on then you can either get another HT or put FUE in the scar and then shave down if you wish. There are options if you continue to lose more hair, assuming you haven't yet depleted your donor already. Dr. Rassman once wrote that he's never seen someone go completely bald on Fin.

 

BeHappy, I'm wondering if you have had any consults recently to see if you still have donor for another strip. Or possibly some FUE?

[Megatron]

Originally posted by labrat69:

I've been taking fin for over 10 years now, and I've managed to pretty well maintain between a NW3/4. 10 years ago I was definitely an early NW3v before I ever started taking the drug.

 

^same here

 

This is a great discussion and perhaps the single most important topic for people considering HTs. Like aaron said in his 2nd post, my doctor designed my HT plan considering worst case scenario.

 

labrat, I agree with everything you said. I too was conflicted about whether I should just eventually buzz everything or have a HT. But, after learning I was a good candidate and believing that a mature hairline would look awesome I decided to get it done.

[TC17]

MikeTheDane,

 

I don't think it's crazy to shave down and show a strip scar, but I don't think any of us would be willing to do that. Hair loss has affected each of us enough to the point where we found this forum, (some) have taken medication, (some) tried snake oil cures, and (some) undergone extremely expensive surgeries. All of those things were done in the hopes of avoiding having to shave it all off or appear bald. Personally, I've seen enough older men on this forum to realize that I'll care about how I look regardless of my age, and if balding bothers me now, it will almost certainly bother me in the future.

[aaron1234]

Personally, I've seen enough older men on this forum to realize that I'll care about how I look regardless of my age, and if balding bothers me now, it will almost certainly bother me in the future.

 

I think you are right TC17. But it's also true that certain looks are more age appropriate than others. For instance, a thin crown at 20 is undesirable but at 50 it is not such a big deal. Of course on the flip-side, if you are 20 or 50, being a NW7 would suck either way.

[TC17]

And I think you're absolutely right too aaron1234. Regarding age appropriate looks, the problem is balancing what looks good on a patient in his 20's and 30's, with what will look good on a patient in his 50's and 60's. Personally, because I know touching my crown is far too risky, I feel that FUE is the way to go for me, and most others that are young with virgin scalps. A nice, transplanted hairline with a thin/bald crown can look very good on a young man, provided the patient keep his hair short. As you get older, that same man can grow his hair out a little longer and then rock a more mature hair style with a naturally looking bald/thin crown. To me, that's the best balance.

 

*and that says nothing about the fact that when hair is shorter, thinning appears less prominent. to me, that means that less grafts can be placed over a larger area and a nice result can be had, assuming of course the patient is willing to keep his hair short. that same patient can then grow his hair longer as he gets older, and still have a natural, but thin look over top his head. think paul newman in "road to perdition"

[MikeTheDane]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't expect to care less about my hair when I get older.

 

But shaving down and showing your scar doesn't nessesarily mean that your HT was in vain. You can still see your hairline and the hairs that were grafted after all. You're just gonna look a little more like jason statham than bruce willis with a scar ofcourse.

[EpilepticSceptic]

OK guys,

 

I'm glad this thread is generating resposnes, but could we please start responding with more specific info. related to the survey ?

 

Age, level of loss, how many years on fin., and how much further loss after being on it ???

 

This topic is of GREAT IMPORTANCE to anyone at any age considering their first HT !! And I just don't want to go by what the HT docs and clinics have to say about it.

[HappyinSW]

This thread is getting me a bit nervous. Take a look at my loss pattern on my site. Just got around 3800 grafts to the hairline and frontal to mid region. Planning on another 4k at least in the crown and to give density all around. Donor area was evaluated to be good by my doc. I believe I would otherwise progress to NW5-6 so what does it look like for me down the road? Bill looks great and I think he is in the 9k ballpark for total grafts. Keep in mind when you see my lower sides around the ear, that looks thinning but that appearance may be a result of that area being predominantly red and blonde hair while the rest of my head is more blonde. Those post-op pics were also taken in very revealing light as well as my scalp being still wet from the shampooing by the doc's assistant.

[EpilepticSceptic]

HappyinSW,

 

Did Dr. Arocha give you specifics about your donor traits ?

 

What is your donor density (per sq. cm) ?

 

And what is your hair caliber ?

 

How many grafts do you have left, ball park ?

[HappyinSW]

labrat,

 

not sure of that, but doc did say that my donor area was good and could definitely handle another HT of 4-5k at least. if you mean how thick my hair is, it is on the coarse end.