Erectile Dysfunction Due to Propecia WITHDRAWL

[KO]

He's not giving information out, he's out to scare a user off a potentially beneficial drug. He doesn't know the actual incidence of ED on finasteride, but he assumes everyone gets it, and then says "nobody should take the drug". That's not information at all. He could have said, "A small number of users can get ED", that would have been perfectly correct, he did not say that though.

 

We have 10 year studies of fin, that show a very low incidence of side effects. Overall about 5% of people get sides, and only a small portion of that is ED, which is rarely recorded in clinical trials, the most common side is loss of libido.

 

 

Here are some of the posts on propeciahelp:

 

"I'm getting homosexual thoughts on fin"

"Numb anus on finasteride"

 

EDIT: I edited this post to be less hostile than it originally came out. Can I blame anger issues on finasteride?

Edited May 22, 2013 by KO

[HairKlepto]

LOL at the homosexual thoughts one.

 

Although Mirapex for example can cause OCD and gambling compulsion as crazy as that sounds. People even won lawsuits because the proof was so strong. But, it affects dopamine so that makes sense as far as obsessive/compulsive behavior.

 

Everything is a risk... We take risks with hair transplants for those of them who have them on here. Medications are a risk and there is nothing wrong with taking them or not. Just personal preference.

 

Before posting originally I looked at all his posts and none even talked about propecia. Maybe I missed something.

[HairKlepto]

A study on this...

 

Here is a synopsis:

All the men were healthy at the start of the study, and had never had any problems with sexual functions; they had no medical or psychiatric conditions and had not used oral prescription drugs before taking Propecia for male pattern hair loss.

 

All the men in this study were checked and rechecked for 14 months.

 

96% of those who were reassessed still had persistent sexual side effects; some of them also had changes in cognition, genital sensation, and ejaculate quality.

 

Dr. Irwig found that 89% of the 54 men met the Arizona Sexual Experiences Scale (ASEX) of sexual dysfunction, which rates sex drive (libido), arousal, penile erection, ability to orgasm, and orgasm satisfaction.

Edited May 26, 2013 by HairKlepto

[NoTakeBacks]

Any links for those studies HK? My curiosity is piqued; I don't plan on taking finasteride anytime soon but I like reading medical studies nevertheless.

[KO]

I've heard of the study you mention, never read the full thing, could you post it?

 

IIRC, he's focusing on the group of people known to have sides, it's not a population wide study iirc.

[Calgacus]

Has anyone suffering from ED/loss of libido/etc. on fin ever tried using viagra?

 

What were the results? Was there any improvement?

[Blake Bloxham]

Here is the study:

Propecia (Finasteride) Permanent Sexual Dysfunction Risk

Hair loss medication, Propecia (finasteride) may be linked to a side effect of sexual dysfunction, a problem which may not go away after treatment has stopped, researchers from George Washington University reported in the Journal of Sexual Medicine. Propecia is a popular medication taken for male pattern hair loss.

 

.

 

Michael S. Irwig MD, who works at the Center for Andrology and Division of Endocrinology, The George Washington University, Washington, DC, prospectively monitored 54 adult males, average age 31, who had had three or more months of finasteride-associated sexual side effects. A side effect that continues for over three months is described as "persistent".

 

All the men were healthy at the start of the study, and had never had any problems with sexual functions; they had no medical or psychiatric conditions and had not used oral prescription drugs before taking Propecia for male pattern hair loss.

 

All the men in this study were checked and rechecked for 14 months.

 

96% of those who were reassessed still had persistent sexual side effects; some of them also had changes in cognition, genital sensation, and ejaculate quality.

 

Dr. Irwig found that 89% of the 54 men met the Arizona Sexual Experiences Scale (ASEX) of sexual dysfunction, which rates sex drive (libido), arousal, penile erection, ability to orgasm, and orgasm satisfaction.

 

In an Abstract in the same journal, Dr. Irwig concluded:

 

 

 

"In most men who developed persistent sexual side effects (≥3 months) despite the discontinuation of finasteride, the sexual dysfunction continued for many months or years.

 

 

 

Although several rat studies have shown detrimental changes to erectile function caused by 5 alpha reductase inhibitors, the persistent nature of these changes is an area of active research.

 

 

 

Prescribers of finasteride and men contemplating its use should be made aware of the potential adverse medication effects."

A few things to keep in mind with this study:

 

1. The sample size (54 patients) is small (as far as research studies are concerned), and it does make some BOLD implications based upon this data. Normally, when something this serious is suggested in a study this small, the researchers note this and INSIST on reproducing the study on a much larger scale (to see if the trend holds true).

 

2. The official studies released before the product met FDA approval noted the level of sexual dysfunction at approximately 3%, and stated that this resolved after stopping the medication.

 

3. A large study conducted in Japan (3,177 participants) a few years ago found a 0.7% incidence of sexual dysfunction, and also noted that this resolved after stopping the medication.

 

Obviously, this is a very important, sensitive issue and needs to be researched further. For the time being, I think it is important to realize that the "official studies" demonstrate a low level of sexual dysfunction. What's more, it is always important to analyze studies to make sure they are from legitimate sources, remain objective, and make decisions based upon scientific/medical research.

 

If patients are considering Propecia (finasteride), I highly recommend researching the drug, gathering information that is concerned or requires further explanation, and meeting with a hair loss expert (physician) to discuss the medication.

[HairKlepto]

Has anyone suffering from ED/loss of libido/etc. on fin ever tried using viagra?

 

What were the results? Was there any improvement?

 

I'd recommend taking maca instead. It is very effective. I can tell you this from personal experience and it well proven in studies in both humans and rats. It is amazing stuff. I'd also recommend cialis over viagra as viagra can be annoying with a 4hr window. Be warned that cialis can cause sudden blindness or deafness. Best to stick with something natural like maca. You need to take it for a few days or so to get the effects - it's not an instant hit like the viagra.

 

You need to cycle on and off it though. Do your research. If you want a quick start do red or black gelatinized maca. Take half a teaspoon to 2 tablespoons a day. Always take a week off per month and 3 days off per week.

 

Ultimately it's best to get healthy... Stay away from the pharmaceuticals -- including propecia -- and get your body healthy. ED is usually related to a circulation issue, but can be caused by numerous things like thyroid, blood pressure, testosterone levels, etc. A checkup might be helpful.

 

I suffered ill effects from propecia, but am healthy again with any boosters of any sort. Although I hit up the maca once in awhile. Not only does it make your junk work better, but orgasms and such are off the charts.

[HairKlepto]

Here is another study from the journal of sexual medicine although it focuses on the duration the side effects for those who experienced them. It shows the persistent effects even after discontinuation with a mean of 40 months before cessation. It is one of the studies being referenced in the lawsuits against Merck.

 

Persistent Sexual Side Effects of Finasteride for Male Pattern Hair Loss - Irwig - 2011 - The Journal of Sexual Medicine - Wiley Online Library

[Blake Bloxham]

Has anyone suffering from ED/loss of libido/etc. on fin ever tried using viagra?

 

What were the results? Was there any improvement?

 

I recommend that any individual considering a prescription medication, be it finasteride, viagra, etc, make an appointment and thoroughly discuss it with a trusted physician.

[HairKlepto]

Having been to about 50 different doctors to treat various pain conditions I won't go into, I can tell you that dr's don't know crap from crap. They know what drug reps tell them and very few of them actually read any journals or do research on medications. By all means talk to a dr. but they often prescribe what is familiar to them and not what is always best for the patient. Do your own research as well... Read patient reviews of drugs (they have whole sites devoted to this)... Learn the differences and what is going to be safest for you. You get the true side effect profiles. I've studied drugs of all kinds, as well as their side effects profiles for several years, and there is a wealth of information out there.

 

It amazes me how dr's will prescribe a dangerous drug that is less effective just because it's popular. If they did an ounce of research they would know there are 10 drugs that do the same thing that are much safer.

 

Dr's also don't know crap about stuff like maca which is well proven in studies because it's not preached to them about from hot drug reps.

[HairKlepto]

I recommend that any individual considering a prescription medication, be it finasteride, viagra, etc, make an appointment and thoroughly discuss it with a trusted physician.

 

While I appreciate what you are trying to say here, I think it's clear that any one getting a med would have to do it from a dr. anyway. He is asking for people's personal experience having taken propecia and then taking something like viagra. Furthermore all a dr. would quote is the bogus 2% side effect profile of propecia after he/she looks it up in his/her 10 year old text book and tell him it's safe.

[KO]

Yeah that makes sense, those studies were done on men who a priori were known to suffer from side effects, so it is not accurate to suggest that 89% of men suffer sexual dysfunction.

[HairKlepto]

Yeah that makes sense, those studies were done on men who a priori were known to suffer from side effects, so it is not accurate to suggest that 89% of men suffer sexual dysfunction.

 

Ok, you are correct. It would be 89% of the people who already had side effects..

Edited May 26, 2013 by HairKlepto

[KO]

Please read more carefully.

 

"Michael S. Irwig MD, who works at the Center for Andrology and Division of Endocrinology, The George Washington University, Washington, DC, prospectively monitored 54 adult males, average age 31, who had had three or more months of finasteride-associated sexual side effects. A side effect that continues for over three months is described as "persistent"."

 

They already had side effects prior to starting the study. This study is not about incidence of sides, it's about men who are known to have sides on fin, their goal is to measure the persistence of side effects, not the incidence. They took men who were healthy and had no sexual problems, but they got them after starting finasteride. That is the experimental group.

 

To say 89% of men get sides is flatly wrong.

[HairKlepto]

Please read more carefully.

 

 

They already had side effects prior to starting the study. This study is not about incidence of sides, it's about men who are known to have sides on fin, their goal is to measure the persistence of side effects, not the incidence. They took men who were healthy and had no sexual problems, but they got them after starting finasteride. That is the experimental group.

 

To say 89% of men get sides is flatly wrong.

 

Ok, you are correct. It is 89% of the people with side effects that persisted were sexual in nature or simply met the scale criteria (it does not distinguish); I edited my response. The 96% persistence is still significant and would indicate that when this side effect does occur it is in most cases persistent after stopping the medication. The other study showed a mean persistence of 40 months which is a long time after discontinuing the drug.

[Blake Bloxham]

KO is correct, and this is probably something that should have been mentioned before.