Genetic advantage?

[swayzedo]

I've been doing a bit of online reading as to whether baldness offers or used to offer some genetic advantage and I must say it's been interesting.

 

Some....in fact most of the results I have turned up have been written by obvious morons who do not have a clue about the process but it is an interesting topic, or at the very least something to make us all feel a little better.

 

As far as my opinion goes I still think it is simply a random genetic fault that happens by chance to people. The variety of different ways it can happen plus the obvious fact that so many men out there have full heads of hair pretty much rules out that it is a 'standard' factor that men must put up with and go through.

 

We all know the story. DHT binds to a receptor in the hair follicle and makes it shrink until the follicle stops producing hair (Whether the follicles is actually dead or dormant or not is another piece of interesting research). Hair style, texture and race all seem to be vulnerable to the distribution of these receptors in the scalp which follow a pattern but vary in their numbers as show by how much hair is lost via the norwood scale.

 

But if it is a planned human genetic trait what of the advantages? If all men went bald there would be some solid evidence for reasoning but look around and you will see lots of men of all ages sporting full thatches so again it all seems too random to have any purpose for humans as a whole species other than something that shouldn't have been there in the first place. If there are advantages the most interesting arguments I've heard for it are

 

1. Receding and showing more of the head shows maturity and is a sign for a female that the man is calming down and ready to settle with a family (Cave man rules apply here)

 

2. 50, 000 years ago humans weren't designed to naturally live past the age of 25 so some of the humans body's do not know what to do with themselves after that.

 

3. Showing more of the head/brain shows more wisdom and could add to a primal hierarchy system.

 

4. Man knows how to make fire and doesn't need hair for heat anymore (that one did make me chuckle a bit!)

 

5. Shit happens.

 

I know DHT largely gets the blame but I think it is these damn receptors on the hair follicle that are the culprit. If there was a way of shutting them off then the DHT would be rendered "harmless" for want of a better word which sort of takes us back round to the case of whether the follicle is dead or dormant or not and could it be awakened (I have seen many people arguing the case for both sides)

 

As well as being a hair loss sufferer I do find the subject of genetics rather interesting so this is actually quite a fun topic for me.

 

Any thoughts?

[Spanker]

I'm going with number one.

 

I think very little about use (that affects so many) is not Darwinian in nature.

[swayzedo]

Thanks for the reply. 1 is definitely the strongest case if there was a reason but I still find myself drawn to number 5. I'm sure there are a million others as well!

[gmonasco]

I don't think #1 is very plausible, as MPB is something that generally occurs after the usual age of reproduction and therefore doesn't really drive evolutionary selection.

[Spanker]

I don't think #1 is very plausible, as MPB is something that generally occurs after the usual age of reproduction and therefore doesn't really drive evolutionary selection.

 

 

We are talking about thousands and thousands of years ago, maybe even before we considered homosapians, so I do not know if that holds any water.

[theportchesterpirate]

I can only put it down to the fact that we all have weak hair follicle's as opposed to all those lucky sods who have full heads of hair and strong follicle's. So it has to be no,5 coz shit has certainly happened to us lot hasn't it lol. Great thread though Swayzedo.

[gmonasco]

We are talking about thousands and thousands of years ago, maybe even before we considered homosapians, so I do not know if that holds any water.

 

I'd say it holds even more water, since thousands and thousands of years ago both reproduction and death typically occurred at significantly earlier ages, before one generally sees the onset of MPB.

[gmonasco]

Lots of men worry about losing their hair. But instead of fretting about their beauty, it might make sense for them to count their blessings — because, by rights, bald men should probably be extinct by now. So why aren't they?

 

New Scientist has taken at look a that particularly interesting question in a wonderful feature, that tries to get to the bottom of why baldness should still be so widespread amongst the males of our species.

 

Why Haven't Bald Men Gone Extinct?

[gmonasco]

What exactly is the evolutionary reason behind male baldness?

 

What exactly is the evolutionary reason behind male baldness? It happened to me about 10 years ago and its advantages are not immediately apparent. | Notes and Queries | guardian.co.uk

[BlueSteel]

status

 

i would guess that only in the past 50 years has a mans looks been just as valued as his status.

 

by observation, even today... i still feel like most girls choose guys based on status when it comes to marriage and kids.

[nikemata]

Shit happens. lol

[Bobilero]

I think its a genetic fault that has occurred due to human dietary and environmental contributory factors over thousands of years.

 

What i find really interesting is the almost non existant level of MPB present in very obscure and isolated tribal men. Whether this be Amazonian or Asian tribes etc etc.

 

Ive read an article about it in National Geographic that as they havent had any exposure over the generations to all of our processed foods and chemicals they are a seperate sub group in where MPB and other afflications does not seem to be present.

 

Their lifestyle is as similar as you can get to present day to how things where thousands of years ago so it is a pretty interesting issue and deserves further research IMO.

 

Another example is i havent seen too many bald native Americans.!

[nikemata]

Processed foods cause hair loss?

[swayzedo]

I wouldn't say processed food cause hair loss. Eating burgers and pizza isn't going to grow DHT receptors on hair follicles that weren't there before but I certainly agree that it can't help. In both hair loss and anything else for that matter.

 

Although eating crap could cause unnatural chemical imbalances in the body and maybe lead to more DHT being manufactured.

 

At the end of the day some folk have attached ear lobes, some people are double jointed, some people have these receptors in their hair follicles (Which by all accounts are still there and able to work but have just been turned off). Luck of the draw some might say!

[nikemata]

IAlthough eating crap could cause unnatural chemical imbalances in the body and maybe lead to more DHT being manufactured.

 

I totally agree with this. If more DHT manufactured therefore will cause hair loss right?

[swayzedo]

I think with us being guys we'll always have testosterone floating around our bodys which will over time be converted to DHT to supply all the receptors we have to suppress hair growth.

 

How much hair you will lose is down to how many of these receptors you have. There are guys in their 70's with some receding at the temples and that's it so they must have a few peppered around there while I also see guys in their 20's with full NW 7's and they must have the full set.

[raulbrammin]

I think processed foods has a lot to do with baldness....

 

My family comprises of men all with a full head of hair and balding happening only after their sixties. Be it maternal side or paternal. My dad who is over 60 now has a full head of hair like his dad did when he passed away. My older brothers hair thickness is something I get terribly jealous of.

 

COme to think about it, as a kid I never liked good foods, ate only biscuits all day, and chips and burgers et. al , i hated milk , curd, meat of any kind , vegetables. nothing of the healthy sort.

 

My diet only comprised of coke , pepsi, burgers, pizza, pasta and by the time I was 16 I had terribly skin, my poker straight silky hair were rough and raggedy and I was a norwood 2 by then ...

 

 

food may not affect everybody depending on how strong your genes may be ... but it is a very important part of the balding process. in my opinion ... i could be wrong !

[RCWest]

The diet has a lot of proof here. There's the proof that very very few Japanese men lost hair until after WW2. During that time they adopted a lot of our Western diet and ever since the number of balding Japanese men is many times more than it was. This was an article on the Balding Blog.

[Al - Moderator]

I disagree with the diet theory. First of all men were going bald long before the 1900's began when there was no processed foods. Secondly, when I was a kid my mother made my whole family breakfast, packed our lunches, and cooked dinner every night, so I ate the same things the entire rest of my family ate. I started losing my hair at 15, yet my dad had a full head of hair well into his 60's. Third, my cholesterol is 170, blood pressure is normal, glucose is good, etc. and they have always been good, so what I'm eating isn't affecting how my body is functioning in a bad way.

[jacksonbrowne]

I see homeless people in my neighborhood all the time with full heads of hair. These guys smoke and drink all the time yet keep their mane.

 

Plus looking at pictures of all the concentration camp ghettos in addition to starving peoples throughout the world. Those men lived in slave like conditions. Many of them skinny to the bone still sporting a full head of hair.

 

There is no empirical evidence to support the assertion that Japanese men went bald at an accelerated rate after the introduction of a western diet sometime around the 1900's. Thus far it's just anecdotal evidence that has been perpetuated on the internet.

 

Empirical evidence doesn't exist to support many of these assumptions of diet affecting hair. Yes diet has been shown to affect the quality of hair growth, but nothing to suggest that it causes MPB.

[Bobilero]

I think the point we are trying to make re diet, chemical and environmental factors is its not any one persons specific diet or exposure to other elements in their own life time that is really triggering or causing the MPB.

 

But a genetic fault that has evolved and been created and inherited over the generations.