FUE white dots. Do they go away? (1 month post-op pic)

[Levrais]

I don't think its absurd as the majority of newbies think that FUE is scarless procedure when it isn't and most people initially who want a hair transplant procedure all want fue which I understand.

 

As cgog pointed out its not that people think fue is scarless in a technical sense. Its somewhat of a play on words. Technically any time the skin is cut, there will be scar tissue after healing. So there will be scar tissue with fue. The point that's being made is that you don't have scars that are visible to the naked eye with fue in some cases. Some do get white dots that can't be seen unless you shave down to a zero guard or wet shave with a blade. Other's don't have the white dots even with this kind of shave. I had 350 beard hairs extracted via fue and I shave my chin every day but I don't see any dots. Also, I have seen an fue patient close up who has had over 8,000 fue and I couldn't see any dots even when he shaved to a zero guard. Whether you will have dots or not depends on many factors including punch size, how well the after care instructions are followed, patient physiology ,etc. But the point being made by fue fans is that you won't have a long scar which is visible.

[jmghair]

cdog94544

 

has anyone noticed/mentioned the scars other than you ?

No one has noticed or mentioned anything. I think they only matter to those who have trained ourselves to notice or are familiar with this procedure. Its still early and I attribute some of the dotting to shocked hair so it may improve.

[scar5]

I have had FUE extractions by three different clinics, and strip procedures (I think 7 or 8 of them), by three clinics, over a period of 24 years. During that period I have lost my sense of objectivity several times, but here and now, I feel I can say this about FUE scarring and the whole 'hype' thing about FUE being scar less.

 

1) Most of the dire warnings issued as blanket universally applying statements, in the name of, 'Warning, FUE is NOT scarless' are unfounded and misleading. (But they have been very good at keeping strip in business)

 

2) The biggest difference of FUE vs Strip scarring is not the amount of scar issue visible at close inspection on the surface of the skin (or indeed the amount of scar tissue generated under the surface) rather, it is due to the changing contours to, and visual texture of, the scalp in the entire donor area seen as a whole.

 

3) Assuming, small outer diameter punches are used, and assuming the doctor or technicians performing the extractions have sufficient skill with the implements they use, and are not exhausted or otherwise having a 'bad day' , the huge variables for scars showing must be skin type of the patient and additionally, the ability to disguise these scars must be based on hair color.

 

4) The, 'if this is 1000, imagine what 10000 looks like?' is hysteria and misleading too. If you are scarring badly at 1000, something is clearly wrong.

 

5) I think having red dots visible at 1 month is a little worrisome, but not necessarily bad, as red goes white in the scars I have seen.

 

6) The spaces between hairs left by vacant hairs and their tendency to 'pixilate' within the donor as a whole, make for a great result

 

7) I've had close to 3000 extractions done FUE. The damage to the color of my skin is insignificant, the change to texture and contour of head, with hair at any length (bone shaven to three inches) is non-existent. I concede, had I not have these huge ear to-ear gashes across my scalp (strip scars, or should I call them FUT scars' that I gave myself, rather i paid my surgeon to create for me, I would might notice them more.

 

8) In worst case scenario, or even mildly bad cases, in my personal experience, SMP works wonders for covering and blending dots. For strip scars, SMP is a big disappointment.

 

And generally.

 

1) The paradigm of 'Strip first (max out) , then FUE to top up', will work briliantly for some, but for the average NW5 or 6 under 30, I think it is a croc. Strip scars are hider to hard once FUE is performed.

 

2) I wouldn't shave down 'for the community' or advise anyone to, but if you do anything 'for the community' it is in the name of keeping your clinic honest.

 

3) Everyone should check out you tube and look at the work Jose Lorezo's clinic is performing now in Madrid, to see bigger and bigger FUE 3000+ sessions, even over 5000, and I'm pretty sure many are purely scalp, to see the damage that these large FUE sessions are causing. You will be impressed. That it is not to say, there are not many hidden disasters. That we can be sure happens.

 

4) When poor FUE is performed don't blame, FUE!! Blame the surgeon, just like we do with strip

 

5) Doctor hype!! Stop turning docs and clinics into demons and demi-Gods. My worst and best strip scars came from the same doc!!

 

To original poster

 

What action did Dr. Bisanga perform during the extractions?

 

a) Did the hand he used twist and toggle the punch, like a washing machine, back-and-forth, as the punch moved deeper into the skin..

 

b)..or did he push, rather like a break the skin with a slight turn, and then in one-action, thrust the punch down quickly to the maximum depth point.

 

I think you must have remembered this.

Edited April 23, 2012 by scar5

[jmghair]

I am not shaving for the community I am shaving because it is what I wanted to do.

 

I have no idea what punching technique Dr. Bisanga used. I could not feel a thing and could not see obviously. I imagine the twisting technique would cause less damage. See immediate post-op pic

 

I have no regrets in choosing fue over strip. I would never get strip. If it was the only option I wouldn't even bother with ht's.

 

The donor is not red but barely pinkinsh. I would imagine the dotting will improve. Some of the larger dots have the hairs surrounding the extracted follicle shocked. This should improve in a few months time. I don't think this is wishful thinking.

Edited April 23, 2012 by jmghair

[scar5]

Sounds all good and I agree.

 

I think I all frothy at the FUE doomsdayers coming out to feast on your red dots!

 

Good luck with it.

[jmghair]

Sounds all good and I agree.

 

I think I all frothy at the FUE doomsdayers coming out to feast on your red dots!

 

Good luck with it.

Cheers

[gillenator]

Is it possible to Tan FUE scarring? Ive always wondered that.

 

Scar tissue does not "tan" like normal scalp tissue which is enriched with blood flow. That's why when individuals who tan very dark can show more contrast when their scalps are shaved or buzzed down close to the scalp.

 

Individuals with less pigmentation or who are fairer skinned tend to burn or show redness from too much sun.

 

That's been my observations.

[zenmunk]

cdog,

 

Whether you shave down for yourself, for the community or both, as a member of the community, I very much appreciate your willingness to document your donor scarring over time. It will be a great help to those of us contemplating FUE, and you will undoubtedly get honest feedback about your condition moving forward.

 

I'm in agreement with those who've said your condition will improve. The scars will become less noticeable. How much less? Only time will tell.

 

SMP works wonders for covering and blending dots.

 

I've seen evidence of this as well. I've given some serious thought to using SMP if I get a lot of noticeable white-dot scarring post-FUE. I'd love to see more examples of how well it works. Of course, everyone mentions that SMP has only been around a short time, so no one knows the long-term results. That obviously concerns me.

 

Scar tissue does not "tan" like normal scalp tissue which is enriched with blood flow.

 

This is true. Any scarring needs to be protected from the sun, especially fresh scars. Failure to do so will result in the scars becoming more noticeable, perhaps permanently so. FUE patients who choose to wear their hair very short, like #1 or less on the clippers (maybe even #2 if you don't have enough density/coverage), should always use ample amounts of high SPF sunblock on their donors.

 

z

Edited April 23, 2012 by zenmunk

[jmghair]

I am fair skinned. My skin is also sensitive. I will give it a years time to heal before I start looking at other options such as laser resurfacing and scalp pigmentation.

[Nasser1]

No one has noticed or mentioned anything. I think they only matter to those who have trained ourselves to notice or are familiar with this procedure. Its still early and I attribute some of the dotting to shocked hair so it may improve.

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

What I know is that Dr.Bisanga is a very good surgeon when it comes to fue. Do you regret having the procedure because of the scars? although it's too early to judge to be honest.

 

 

Please keep us updated

[jmghair]

At one month its too early too judge scarring so of course I don't regret anything.

[gillenator]

Yes one month is too early to judge scarring.

 

One other thing to anyone considering SMP for their donor sites. Scar tisuue does not absorb ink the same way that normal tissue does.

 

I have seen a number of tatoos that had corrective work done or had more ink added later when the original ink begins to fade. Some of the scars would not take the new ink or the color was not the same as an unscarred area.

 

That is why some tattoo artists do not like "do overs" within the same area as the original tatoo.

[zenmunk]

gillenator is correct. Here are more things to consider regarding tattooing scar tissue which undoubtedly applies to strip and FUE scars to some degree as well:

 

- It is time consuming. Depending on the individual's skin or scar texture, a single line may require two or more passes with the needle before it takes.

 

- It can be and often is more painful than the average tattoo. Scar tissue is very sensitive since the nerve endings are closer to the "new skin" (unless the nerve ends were destroyed when the damage occurred).

 

- Once set within the scar, black ink will stay. Colored ink can be set within the tissue; however, it may bleed or fade from the skin, and this possibility should be anticipated, but not expected. There is always a slight possibility that the black ink may blot or run beneath the tissue, but if a very fine line is used this problem can be virtually eliminated.

 

- It may be a good idea to have a small test area done first to determine if your skin will accept the pigment before committing to a larger session.

 

- Last but certainly not least, it is very important that the scar tissue be at least one year old before tattooing is attempted (the older the scar, the better). Destroyed tissue takes a long time to heal, so the older the scar, the better it will take the pigment.

 

SMP for strip and FUE scars is not like the typical tattoo design applied to a different kind of scar. They are small "dots" which resemble zero guard hair, not elaborate designs with multiple colors. Also, the scars which are left after strip and FUE are controlled. They're usually better, smaller, tighter scars when done by a good doctor. Consequently, perhaps there is a better chance of success with SMP on strip/FUE scar tissue. That's just a guess, though.

[gillenator]

zenmunk, yes it's true that the ink can in some cases, bleed into the surrounding tissue. I have seen it multiple times but more in cases where there was prior work done and the scar matter (tissue) would not absorb the ink but rather was absorbed in the immediate surrounding tissue where the blood flow or where the scarring was not as deep and prevalent.

 

Some will state that it's cheep or incorrect ink but in those repair cases where again the scarring is prevalent, the ink simply was drawn to the surrounding tissue where it was more easily absorbed. This is especially more evident in "do-overs".

 

Absorbed blood with brusing works similiar whereby the type of wound is more superficial with the black and blue effect. That coloration is underlying bleeding absorbed in the surrounding tissue and in most cases is temporary as the blood eventually is all absorbed and disappears in a relatively short amount of time.

 

Not so with ink.

[AnybodyKnowsMe]

zenmunk, yes it's true that the ink can in some cases, bleed into the surrounding tissue. I have seen it multiple times but more in cases where there was prior work done and the scar matter (tissue) would not absorb the ink but rather was absorbed in the immediate surrounding tissue where the blood flow or where the scarring was not as deep and prevalent.

 

Some will state that it's cheep or incorrect ink but in those repair cases where again the scarring is prevalent, the ink simply was drawn to the surrounding tissue where it was more easily absorbed. This is especially more evident in "do-overs".

 

Absorbed blood with bruising works similar whereby the type of wound is more superficial with the black and blue effect. That coloration is underlying bleeding absorbed in the surrounding tissue and in most cases is temporary as the blood eventually is all absorbed and disappears in a relatively short amount of time.

 

Not so with ink.

 

This is a very interesting post that squares with my own working theory.

 

Gillenator, have you ever seen FUE scars effectively disguised with SMP (i.e., full coverage of the FUE scars)? Is your conclusion just based on your own observations, or has a doctor told you this about the ink bleeding out of the scar tissue?

 

I know that Dr. Rassman claims it can be done (i.e., effectively hit all of the FUE scars with ink), however I have noticed from viewing photos that all of the FUE scars in the donor area WILL NOT accept the pigments (no matter how many treatments are done).

 

In addition, the surrounding tissue in this area absorbs the pigments, which can result in a painted-on looked in the donor area.

 

In fact, I have yet to see a HIS, NHI, or Good Look Ink patient that has successfully obtained full coverage of the FUE scars in his donor area whereby ALL of the FUE scars are actually pigmented.

 

Moreover, it is my suspicion the same thing can happen in the recipient area if was the patient was the subject of a prior transplant procedure that resulted in normal micro-scarring of the area! The ink may then bleed into the surrounding tissue.

 

I have heard that Ian at HIS believes that you can more effectively treat FUE scars by using "added pressure" in this area to get the scar tissue to better absorb the ink. I have yet to see evidence of this though.

 

Also, in another thread here, there is mention of Good Look Ink injecting the ink deeper into the dermis. Perhaps this helps the FUE scars better accept or hold the pigments? However, I have yet to see evidence to prove it.

 

Who knows?

Edited May 19, 2012 by AnybodyKnowsMe

[aj29]

Hi cdog

 

I too had my op with Bisanga ,my donor is looking good six weeks post op apart from a nasty spot of shockloss on the right side.in 12 months you'll never know you had anything done.anything is better than a science fiction style strip scar

[England]

As an interesting point of comparison, I have both a strip scar (from 7 years ago) and have recently had FUE surgery.

 

Here is a picture showing me immediately post-op and 2 weeks later. It's interesting to observe that just 2 weeks after the FUE surgery, the strip scar is far more visible and problematic:

 

[mattj]

Your strip scar looks surprisingly hard to see in the second photo. Obviously it's being highlighted by the surrounding redness in the first.

[jmghair]

As an interesting point of comparison, I have both a strip scar (from 7 years ago) and have recently had FUE surgery.

 

Here is a picture showing me immediately post-op and 2 weeks later. It's interesting to observe that just 2 weeks after the FUE surgery, the strip scar is far more visible and problematic:

 

England you have the dots as well but because your hair is fair it won't be as noticeable. Also your hair is pretty grown out in the 2-week pic. From zero guard to two weeks growth you can't notice the dots at all on me.

[jmghair]

England I'm curious how many fue was taken in that op? It looks like quite a few. Way more than was taken from my donor.

[England]

Mattj - thanks - my strip scar being relatively thin and easy to hide was one of the reasons I didn't want to risk it getting any worse (or longer) by having another strip. Considering I had my treatment done at a relatively poor clinic I got quite lucky with the scar I think.

 

Cdog - I had 2,500 ish extractions. I think you're right in that light hair helps. The dots were slightly red at first but are fading now and just look like pores if visible at all, I don't think they'll go white due to my skin tone. Fantastic that you can't see any dots on your hair with 2 weeks growth. Have you healed any more since your original post?

 

@Both - the main reason I posted was for people considering scars of strip vs scars of FUE - this gives a direct comparison on the same head of hair. At just 2 weeks post FUE op (a relatively large one), it was the strip scar that stopped me going outside without a hat. While everybody who has researched knows that FUE isn't technically scarless, when it's undetectable with short hair it's far 'more' scarless than strip. :-)

Edited May 21, 2012 by England

[Nasser1]

Thanks England for the pics it helps.

 

Cdog : how is the healing going with you ? hope everything is going well.

[jmghair]

At 3 months the yield is great so far. Maybe 60-70%. I haven't buzzed down to a low grade to view the donor again yet but when I do I'll post pics.

[MoeyK]

As an interesting point of comparison, I have both a strip scar (from 7 years ago) and have recently had FUE surgery.

 

Here is a picture showing me immediately post-op and 2 weeks later. It's interesting to observe that just 2 weeks after the FUE surgery, the strip scar is far more visible and problematic:

 

 

Thanks for providing this photo. I was actually going to consider Strip over FUE due to price difference. But this photo has convinced me to work that little bit harder and little bit longer and save that extra cash!

 

Honestly although you are scarred from the FUE, its not detectable unless for some odd reason somebody grabs your head and scans your skin haha.

[Jotronic]

I agree with Mattj. The strip scar is more visible in the before because of the contrast with the fresh FUE excisions and of course the head is shaved. It is barely visible in the second photo.