Regular Member whacked Posted March 26, 2012 Regular Member Share Posted March 26, 2012 Wouldn't that be SWEET if you could get a preview of what SMP would look like either via animation/imaging like the ones plastic surgeons use OR by applying a FAKE or very temporary tattoo/version. I'd be all over that. Not too off topic but when I was in Cancun, I got a temporary tattoo on my arm that lasted 5 days or so. It withstood the ocean and constant pool time/swimming. More importantly, it gave me a definitive answer on IF I truly wanted a REAL tattoo there (on my shoulder). I did NOT. The inherent value in "test-driving" this was obviously HUGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member 2yrcoverup Posted March 26, 2012 Regular Member Share Posted March 26, 2012 ive thought about thisas i will need smp after another transplant and i wont have the density still like you, but you cantdo smp bfore a transplant as the slits and punch marks where the hair is put in will mess up the tattoo on the skin when putting in plus youll have the strip scar to cover if left wth scar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted March 27, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) The inherent value in "test-driving" this was obviously HUGE! Yeah, to some degree, but it will change over time. If you buy a .5mm - .8mm marker and start dotting your bare areas, then apply some chicks powder on it, it is amazing to see the effect. Then you could try soluble inks. I don't have the patience. BTW, moderators, with so many of these damn pigment posts coming along, where should we post? HT section? Hair loss General section? It feels like I am jamming the HT channel air waves a bit. Answer - then don't post! lol, I know, I know Edited March 28, 2012 by Future_HT_Doc outside link removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member whacked Posted March 27, 2012 Regular Member Share Posted March 27, 2012 What is "chicks powder" Yeah, to some degree, but it will change over time. If you buy a .5mm - .8mm marker and start dotting your bare areas, then apply some chicks powder on it, it is amazing to see the effect. Not trying to be a jerk but how can you if it's amazing to see the effect if you didnt have the patience to try it. Thanks It is amazing to see the effect. I don't have the patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yea that is a good point about the possible follicular damage. I asked Dr. Rassman this question and his response was that the needle only penetrates to the dermis, and the follicle is much deeper, so no damage. As far as getting this guarantee in writing from any company, I just don't see it happening. Most places wont talk about their needles or pigments, and only offer a one year guarantee that they will touch up their work for no additional cost. I think since this is such a new procedure, companies will not give any guarantees on anything but touchups. Ive done alot of online reading, and posting and emailing, and it seems that NHI, HIS, and Goodlook Ink would be the most viable options for me. I was initially interested in Artistry Concepts in Florida, but then I called and spoke to them LOL. They seem to be a tattoo parlor, and probably do amazing body tats, but now they realize the thousands of dollars to be made in SMP, so they are jumping on board and making outrageous claims of success. They have the professionalism and courtesy I would expect from any run of the mill tattoo shop. Big turn off to me. Anyhow, for me it was between NHI, Goodlook ink, and HIS, and I gave my downpayment to one of these three companies. I won't say which company I am going with, b/c I have read hundreds of these forums that seem to be real people but then actually turn out to be undercover employees posting their own good reviews. That is not what this network is for. It is about men with a common problem that really affects our lives in a negative way and want to help each other with advice, and for someone to shill, or whatever you want to call it, is just a very low thing to do. Anyhow, Im going to have it done, and I really hope that one of these biotech companies like Replicel or Histogen, release a cure in the next 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted March 28, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 whacked: What is "chicks powder" Not trying to be a jerk but how can you if it's amazing to see the effect if you didnt have the patience to try it. Whacked, I know ur not not whacking off, don't worry. Yeah, my bad. I meant to say I don't have the patience to try water-soluble fading pigments for SMP in my head for a year or six months or whatever, so as to gauge the effect it will have on my appearance. It is probably a sensible idea, even if the pigments used for more permanent effect have a different appearance.The link I posted seems to show that this is worth the effort. "Chicks powder", I think, is that round thing they open up with a mirror on one side of it, a pad, and a skin-toned powder. As in, 'I think I'll go powder my nose' (no, not cocaine) I thought it was called 'foundation' but then I see they have that in tubes as a liquid too. jucollege: In ur research, have u noticed that GLI say that they go deeper (than say HIS). What do you make of this? From what I've read, the idea is no place the tatt highish in the dermis. But the bottom layer of the epidermis has these oblong looking cells that look with the legs of a millipede, except fatter. If the ink gets lodged in there,it migrates up, and out, blurring all the way. (as the oblong cells rise, they flatten out, and so a fine hair stroke turns into a pancake. On the other hand, if they deep enough to know they are not touching the 'legs'of this lower epidermis layer, perhaps it is so deep that it will look more opaque and less defined??? I'm obviously just reading this %' for the first time and spouting off, but it is interesting. It is also frustrating to find that due to commercial pressure, the companies won't discuss their inks and tools. Anyone can see Artistry Concepts tool that they are trying to patent (but whether they always use it, who knows?) Anyway, it seems that a three needle 'gun' is preferred, which surprsed me because I assumed a single needle would leave a smaller ball of ink. And they are of extremely fine diameter. One key to Artisrty Concepts patent - warning, I'm no expert - is that those three needles curve in toward each other at the bottom, rather than being parallel like a traditional cluster or 'mag' I think they call it, of needle. Once, again, I' have no idea what I'm talking about, but it is openly available on the web, just search tattoo tools, patent pending, pigmentation etc., Anyway, the research continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hey what's up Scar 5, yea man I did get that answer from the president of Good Look Ink when I called them. He says(and I just read it on their site to refresh my memory) that they actually go about a millimeter into the scalp which penetrates to the dermis. The site claims that the cells of the dermis are much more stable than the cells of the epidermis, which I assume they claim will give the effect more longevity. Maybe it does produce better results, idk. I'm honestly not educated enough on the scalp anatomy to know for sure which is better, dermal or epidermal application, but you make a good point. Yea, at first I was really into Artistry Concepts b/c they were so open on their site about needle technology and smart pigments, and I read about the standard 3 round needle that the competitors supposively use and AC just seemed to be a step ahead. Then I started really digging and found some disturbing info about them on forums and sites. I feel like AC attempts to get the customer so focused on these minor details, that may not make a difference. All I know is I found out that the other guy at AC, Robert, who performs the procedure and has had it done, now has a big horseshoe bald spot on his head, and when I asked AC's president about this she said it is true but claimed his bald spot showed up after he had the procedure and lost more hair. Kind of sketchy sounding, plus they do not offer to show you any previous clients, and claim they don't keep client records. The company I chose is literally begging people to come see the work in person. I can be tricked by medical jargon and get caught up in all these details but the one and only thing I care about is results and if a company will not offer me an opportunity to see theirs, they must not have too much confidence in their finished product. Just saying:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted March 28, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thank you everyone for your great responses to my post. I am the original poster on this topic and just read through all of the responses which brings up a few questions and observations. I was initially quoted $1500, then $3000 now I see one member here was quoted $6000. This is getting as expensive as a hair transplant. I had the unfortunate experience of going to a highly recommended surgeon on this site who did a job that produced few results. He offered a second one free which I accepted and that produced few results as well. This doctor refused to offer a refund even though other doctors said I did not receive the benefit of the number of grafts placed. That not only destroyed about 5,000 irreplaceable grafts but also drained my bank account of $10,000. The doctor felt his work was adequate. People on here were shocked at the photos I posted and shortly after that this doctor’s membership on the site was revoked. I’m told because of my results and results of other patients around the same time period. Dr. Shapiro followed my story and knew I had gotten the short end of the stick and performed two more procedures on me free. His work has been effective. I have another six months before I can say the last procedure is mature. I believe that I will be close to a cosmetically acceptable result but still need something to make the density appear thicker. Since my donor supply is exhausted SMP is my last hope with current technology. However, if the price is now $6000 I am priced out of the market. This five year journey has been very frustrating and now I feel so close but still so far due to the current cost of SMP. One poster commented on the idea of a non-permanent ink solution. I like that idea. Would the color of the ink be different if I wanted to keep some length to my hair vs. keeping it shaved? I am so glad that Dr. Rassman contributed to this thread. If I have this done one day he is probably the one I would go to since it is medically supervised. He did seem to contradict himself and was wondering if he or someone could clarify a couple of statements? In one post Dr. Rassman says “tattoo removing with a laser works reasonably well”, then in another statement he says “, much of what his clinic does is not practically reversible”. Which is it? And if the tattooing can be removed with a laser is it the kind that will not damage the hair follicle? Remember one type of laser is used specifically for hair removal because it kills the follicle. Dr. Rassman said two to three sessions will be needed. How far apart will those sessions be? There was another question concerning whether the SMP should be done before or after an hair transplant. I would say if one gets SMP done before a hair transplant they are going into the hair transplant with the notion that the finished result will not provide enough density to be cosmetically acceptable. I would get the hair transplant first, let it mature and see what the final results are. To me getting the SMP before the hair transplant is putting the cart before the horse. What if the hair transplant provided an acceptable density, then the SMP would have been an unnecessary procedure. I think a hair transplant and SMP can complement each other. I don’t think SMP alone without the texture of real hair is as convincing as SMP alone and a hair transplant without the illusion of adequate density is not as convincing as a hair transplant alone. In addition, even if one did want to get the SMP, I believe if it is done after a hair transplant the SMP artist will be in a better position to know what they are working with as far as final results of hair density and can better match the SMP with the available hair. This could all be argued the other way around too but this is just my opinion. I noticed another contradiction here (it may have been between Dr. Rassman and another poster) that indicated for longer hair dots are not recommended but more of a blanket of ink. Then Dr. Rassman said he recommends dots not blanket color. I like that Dr. Rassman pointed out that a natural hairline has a transition and is not an abrupt thick wall of hair across the forehead. Natural hair is thinner at the hairline and gets thicker on top of the head. What to do oh what to do! NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted March 28, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I was initially quoted $1500, then $3000 now I see one member here was quoted $6000. This is getting as expensive . ha!!..yep, in under three months I did my research prior to scar work last year, unbeknown to me, the price for scar treatment was going up on a curve at a rate of $15-$20 per day! One month, just one month of research cost you an extra $500!! just for scar work! Insane?? A lot of it must come down to a price bubble that would have a few holes in it, when less than stellar long term results surface. Meantime, it is hay season for the pigment people!! (and ..boy.. do they know it!!) Sorry to hear your story buddy. I've had so much bad work, accepted bad advice, made dumb decisions, had second and third chances, blown them, been ripped-off, etc., etc., I think I can appreciate your frustration. BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. Sorry if you feel ignored:( Jhol, Yeah, I think they all say the dermis is where they put the ink, else it just disappears. Must be that GLI say they go deeper in the dermis! I wonder how they know the thickness of the epidermis and dermis in an individual patient? Do you know how they determine this? Or don't they?:confused: I think the approach to this is to do a light 'once over' wait a few days, inspect the damage, have another crack at less conservative 'settings' (whatever the parameters are, ink? needle depth? pressure?) and go from there. Edited March 28, 2012 by scar5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted March 28, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. Sorry if you feel ignored:( What do you mean by this? NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted March 28, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. Sorry if you feel ignored:( What do you mean by this? BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. - topics change as the thread rolls out The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, - you stated that you started the thread, and re-posted the identical post later in the thread with no reference to the post material in between on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. -can't add anything here Sorry if you feel ignored -seems like you weren't getting answers you wanted, as you also posted the laser question on a thread I started about minox What do you mean by this? -hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hey Scar, yea man, you are right. They all say that the needle penetrates to the dermis. I suppose (and really hope) that all of those terrible pics online of big blue dots on people's heads, are examples of the "old way" of doing this procedure when they didn't go deep enough and used pigments with different color additives. As far as determining the thickness of a person's scalp, I know they can not do this from simply looking at a pictures but I hope the technition/artist is able to determine this fairly easily upon inspection but im not sure. I guess you could say I'm taking a leap of faith in doing this procedure. I am just not happy with the way I look, and if this could buy me 5-10 years of happiness and freedom then that would be awesome. I do hope that this does not hinder the possibility of the future biotech cures working for me one day. I asked a HT doctor if smp would affect the follicles and he said no but it may be based on a more individual basis like most medical things are. To be honest Im not sure about the reason for the different companies having different lengths of time for their procedures. One company says you need two sessions of 4 hours a piece with a two day rest in between. Another company says you need just one 6-8 hour session, and one says you need 3-5 with days in between each one. It would seem that the companies would all have the same amount of sessions, but I guess that is part of the reason that each of these companies produces a different result. I really don't understand the touch up process though. The company I went with offers free touch ups for the first year (just like the rest do) but I'm guessing that this is because it is not likely that you will need a touchup in the first year. If they keep going over the same little dots, wont this make them bigger and expand? If they fade, will they dissapear, or will they spread? These are my biggest concerns, but im not happy with my appearance now, so Im willing to take chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted March 28, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. - topics change as the thread rolls out The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, - you stated that you started the thread, and re-posted the identical post later in the thread with no reference to the post material in between on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. -can't add anything here Sorry if you feel ignored -seems like you weren't getting answers you wanted, as you also posted the laser question on a thread I started about minox What do you mean by this? -hope that helps. This is directed at “Scar5”. I apologize in advance to other members for the less than cheery post I’m about to write which is off my original topic. I hate doing so but on occasion it is necessary when provoked unnecessarily and inaccuracies have been posted. I am open to constructive criticism but this is not constructive and I see no point to it other than to offend or attempt to stir up an argument. “Scar5”, if you are here to argue and criticize people please find another venue for it because that is not the reason I’m here and I suspect the majority of other members aren’t either. I don’t need instructions from you on how this site works. I’ve been on it longer than you and made more posts and never been given instructions by another member about how to conduct myself on the forum. By posting the same thing again I was hitting the refresh button and I have the prerogative to do that. For you to assume and make the accusation I felt like I was being ignored was incorrect and out of line. My post is anything but being ignored with well over 2000 views and over 60 replies. You said I felt like I “owned” this post. Please show me where I said that. You said you felt like I wasn’t getting the answers I wanted. Again, an assumption on your part which was inaccurate. I am not looking for a particular answer. If that is what I was looking for I’d answer my own questions. I’m looking for facts and truth whatever they may be, from a credible source that has done their due diligence in research and experience. I’d recommend if my posts annoy you then don’t read them and unless you have something constructive to add about the topic being discussed please do not respond to any more of my posts. I believe 99.9% of the people on here are an asset and offer a lot to the forum, then there is that .1%. Maybe these individuals are negative by nature or have a terrible personal life. Whatever the reason there is no place for it on this forum and it is counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish here. Now, I’d like to get back to the topic with members who are inclined to learn from one another and not trade personal jabs off topic but information on hair loss solutions. Thank you very much to everyone who replied to my original post. I’ve learned a tremendous amount from you and know I will continue to do so on this hair replacement journey. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted March 28, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 This is directed at “Scar5”. I apologize in advance to other members for the less than cheery post I’m about to write which is off my original topic. I hate doing so but on occasion it is necessary when provoked unnecessarily and inaccuracies have been posted. I am open to constructive criticism but this is not constructive and I see no point to it other than to offend or attempt to stir up an argument. “Scar5”, if you are here to argue and criticize people please find another venue for it because that is not the reason I’m here and I suspect the majority of other members aren’t either. I don’t need instructions from you on how this site works. I’ve been on it longer than you and made more posts and never been given instructions by another member about how to conduct myself on the forum. By posting the same thing again I was hitting the refresh button and I have the prerogative to do that. For you to assume and make the accusation I felt like I was being ignored was incorrect and out of line. My post is anything but being ignored with well over 2000 views and over 60 replies. You said I felt like I “owned” this post. Please show me where I said that. You said you felt like I wasn’t getting the answers I wanted. Again, an assumption on your part which was inaccurate. I am not looking for a particular answer. If that is what I was looking for I’d answer my own questions. I’m looking for facts and truth whatever they may be, from a credible source that has done their due diligence in research and experience. I’d recommend if my posts annoy you then don’t read them and unless you have something constructive to add about the topic being discussed please do not respond to any more of my posts. I believe 99.9% of the people on here are an asset and offer a lot to the forum, then there is that .1%. Maybe these individuals are negative by nature or have a terrible personal life. Whatever the reason there is no place for it on this forum and it is counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish here. Now, I’d like to get back to the topic with members who are inclined to learn from one another and not trade personal jabs off topic but information on hair loss solutions. Thank you very much to everyone who replied to my original post. I’ve learned a tremendous amount from you and know I will continue to do so on this hair replacement journey. Timetodo, No personal jab intended!! :)I did my best to explain!! Sorry if u took it that way.My bad:( Good luck with your hair journey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted March 28, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 28, 2012 Timetodo, No personal jab intended!! :)I did my best to explain!! Sorry if u took it that way.My bad:( Good luck with your hair journey!! Thank you for clearing that up because that is not the way your previous post sounded. I accept your appologies. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hey time to do something, I read your original post and you talked a little bit about your bad experience with Good Look Ink in Minnesota. Were they not forthcoming with info and did they dodge your questions? If you could elaborate on your impression/experience with GLI, I would really appreciate it as this could help me greatly. Smp isnt cheap and is permanent so any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 3, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hey time to do something, I read your original post and you talked a little bit about your bad experience with Good Look Ink in Minnesota. Were they not forthcoming with info and did they dodge your questions? If you could elaborate on your impression/experience with GLI, I would really appreciate it as this could help me greatly. Smp isnt cheap and is permanent so any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. The quality of their work may be okay. They just were pushing me to sign the day I was there and acted put out that I wouldn't. They couldn't answer my question about being able to remove the process if necessary for some reason with a laser that wouldn't damage the hair follicle. He said they had an example of someone who did have it removed but that is all they would tell me. I asked to speak to the person (off site) who removed it and they would not allow me to. The sales person became annoyed and shut down. He then said I'd have to talk to the owner. I asked him to please have the owner contact me but I never heard anything from them again. I just didn't get a comfortable feeling and that usually means something. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 3, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 3, 2012 When I said "off site" I meant this was a person they said removed the tattooing from at another location what was not associated with them and it was not a doctor. I believe it was a skin care specialist. It is very telling that they did not want me to talk with this person. Remember, there could be unforseen circumstances where you may need to have this process reversed and that is an important question to ask. Just asking if it can be removed is not enough. You need to know if it can be removed without damaging your hair follicles. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thanks Time to do something, yea you make excellent points. I have not considered that I may need it removed one day, for whatever reason. I would imagine that you got your answer to your question by their lack of response. I can't see how laser removal would not damage or kill the follicles; those are harsh treatments. It is so difficult to learn much about this procedure. On these forums and blogs you never know if it is a real person speaking of a good experience, or a representative of one of those smp companies themselves. And when you ask the companies themselves they don't seem to provide alot of answers, and some treat you like you are a russian spy. I definitely get a sketchy feeling when I talk to some of these companies. I have a good bit of thin hair on top and just want to fill in the little gaps, but I don't want to make my situation worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I will say though, that Good look ink has been very helpful to me and Darren, GLI's president has been very up front with me from the beginning. He has told me all of the negatives and positives. They just give me a good vibe and they arent hiding anything like the other place I talked to. I understand your concern about follicular damage from laser removal, but it would be wrong of me if I didnt say how helpful GLI has been to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 17, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hello Dr. Traquina, I am not sure what a valid address is for you so I’m sending this to several I was able to locate in hopes you will receive one of them. I am writing you on behalf of several individuals who are members of the “Hair Transplant Network”. We have been posting on the forum about the subject of Scalp Micropigmentation. We are all considering having it done but have been able to find very little information on the subject. We are unable to find any doctor or company that has been doing it for more than a few years. Then one of the members stumbled across the paper you wrote entitled “Micropigmentation as an Adjuvant in Cosmetic Surgery”. This was like a gold mine for us because you wrote about individuals who had this procedure done back in the 1990’s. What we are all looking for is an example of people who had this done more than a couple of years ago so we can view the results. The overwhelming fear among people considering this procedure is with time the ink blurs/fades, bleeds and turns a different color. Another question people have is if the procedure needs to be reversed for some reason can it be with a laser without damaging the hair follicle? If you could answer some of these questions or better yet provide photos of the individuals who had this procedure done in the 1990’s we would very much appreciate it. In my case I’ve had four hair transplants with almost 9000 grafts. I was a NW5. The first two were done by an unscrupulous doctor and I had very poor results. The last two were done by a much more qualified surgeon but he only had so many grafts to work with. I’m right on the threshold of my hair transplants looking cosmetically acceptable but with my donor supply exhausted the only option I can think of is the Scalp Micropigmentation. I wear a hair piece and want to remove it by the summer. My last hair transplant was in July 2011 so if my concerns are laid to rest I plan to have the Scalp Micorpigmentation in July 2012. Thank you for any help you can give me and the other forum members in the same boat. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted April 17, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2012 Time, I'm sorry if I missed it, but do you have the "micropigmentation as an adjuvant in cosmetic surgery" article? I'd like to read it "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 17, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2012 This link should direct you to where you can find the actual article. It was from 2001. Micropigmentation as an adjuvant in cosmetic s... [Dermatol Surg. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 17, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2012 Dr. Alvaro Traquina published a paper in the journal, Dermatologic Surgery, Vol 27, Issue 2, p 123, Feb 2001, entitled, "Micropigmentation as an Adjuvant in Cosmestic Surgery of the Scalp" . It is easy to get hold of it on the web. He did retrospective review of 62 patients he treated for micropigmentation between 1993 and 1999. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I appreciate everyone's input on scalp micropigmentation. It was especially nice to hear Coalition member Dr. Rassman's input since he regularly offers it to those he feels are qualified at his clinic. I think it's important for those considering this procedure to understand that like hair transplant surgery, not everyone is a candidate. It also depends on what your goals are. Personally, I'm real skeptical of its naturalness when used to recreate the appearance of a "cropped" haircut on a completely bald scalp. I suspect it may look good from afar but under close inspection, there's no way to avoid the flat, 2 dimensional appearance. Furthermore, it's not going to feel like hair when touched, even if it still looks good to the eye at close proximity. There's also the concern about the color fading over time. Even with quality ink, I suspect that touch up procedures will be needed to maintain a natural looking appearance. Thus, I suspect that scalp micropigmentation is best used to conceal a hair transplant scar and possibly in conjunction with hair transplant surgery to aid the appearance of density. For more information, see the article our editorial assistant Blake wrote and we published on Hub Pages a: Hair Loss Treatment: Is Scalp Micropigmentation a Legitimate Hair Restoration Solution? Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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