Fin $9 at Walmart?

[Swimmy]

Sorry Trying to give you some more information so you can see where its going. This is the author of the site a small piece.

Ultimately, I believe hair loss is determined by the thyroid, and insulin resistance can be consequence of it, or can be

exacerbated by foods in the diet that were not intended for the ancestry.

 

Getting even more to the root, is mitochondrial decay and/or poor oxygenation within the cell, which are both driven by insulin resistance and/or low thyroid function.

 

Both causes of thyroid dysfunction as well as the dysfunction itself can be cause this impairment.

 

DHT is harmless without free radicals. In non-balding scalps there is very little gene upregulation in DKK-1. Upon the ingestion of high glycemic foods, in balding susceptible individuals, this gene is significantly upregulated, and while insulin itself promotes more DHT (due to a hormone resistant compensation), the said upregulation of DKK-1 will insure hair follicle degradation.

 

Anything that adversely affects the thyroid alters the regulation of TGF-beta and its effects on hair cycling and apoptosis.

 

The health of hair not only relates to the thyroid but of teeth and gum health. The process of acquiring cavities is a systemic disease, whereby phosphate levels are depressed below 3.5 upon the ingestion of fruits and other high insulin producing foods in peoples originating from colder climates, this also causes rapid calcification in soft tissue, a factor in MPB.

 

Regarding the cavities (this might be difficult to swallow for some), however, this was proved using stomach tube feeding in mice, which have identical teeth physiology to humans. Regardless of how the sugar was fed (through the mouth or stomach tube), all acquired cavities.

 

Metals that accumulate are a source of oxidation and in insulin resistance, this is a large factor. The antioxidants used help ameliorate this condition by neutralizing free radicals, which in turn attenuate inflammation that is initially signaled by DHT.

 

Balancing the thyroid will go a way towards fighting inflammation, because in a sub-clinical hypothyroid state, which is epidemic world-wide, (thanks to an improper "gold standard" in thyroid testing), because a low thyroid means there is absolute inflammation in the body.

 

Eating the right food for the ancestral type, eliminating metals (teeth), and within organs and bones using natural chelators and antioxidants can ultimately achieve success in a battle otherwise lost in aggressive cases.

 

Believe me they aren't pulling this stuff out of their arse. The Author of the site sources all of his information. Just do a search at the forum and you will find loads of information on Insulin and its effect on hair loss

[mahhong]

Hi Swimmy,

 

Thanks for all this stuff. I've started going through all the sites and sources you've suggested and there is a lot of interesting reading. I must admit I hadn't heard a lot of the alleged links between insulin and DHT and it does make for interesting reading. That's not to say I'm completely convinced, but it's an interesting and somewhat plausible path to look into alongside existing hairloss treatments.

 

You've obviously done your research on this so I'm asking some questions/concerns I still have in the hope you'll be able to answer some of them:

 

Firstly, do you have any reason why you site finasteride as being hazardous to your health but believe Saw Palmetto to be safe and effective? My concern with Saw Palmetto is that, due to it's nature as a fairly unprofitable naturally occurring substance the clinical testing on it has been, at best, scant. Sure there are lot of 'reports' on the web but the only really reliable sorts of trials (and then 'reliable' is not an easy word to use) are large scale trials involving hundreds/thousands of people over a long period of time with thorough examination. I've read the odd report here and there but it's usually restricted to tens of people at most, or animals. Whilst these reports might have their usage they can't really be used to assess efficacy across the population. I was wondering if you had good evidence to demonstrate SPs effectiveness and safety.

 

Secondly, why do you feel finasteride is damaging? Yes, there have been some horror stories, but to my knowledge the best these qualify as is hearsay. Now, of course we can take the alarmist opinion that the corporations are doing their best to cover up the harmful aspects of their drugs and I cannot outright dispute that, but do we have any real and well reported evidence fin is a widespread problem with genuine repercussions? I continue to find it difficult to believe fin is having such problematic neurological effects. Who is paying for good trialling that discounts the safety of fin? In addition have these neurological side effects been accurately documented in humans? And why would it be that whilst one DHT blocker supposedly causes all sorts of problems a theoretically more potent DHT blocker (Saw Palmetto) is, in your opinion, safe?

 

Finally, the insulin theories and treatments you have been citing - why have these not come into mainstream popularity and dermatologists/trichologists keen to take these ideas and treatments on board? I find it difficult to believe that insulin has been discovered as one of the major 'smoking guns' of hairloss with good treatments and lifestyle-based ways of solving the problem, but that professionals generally haven't it on board. This of course could be a genuine case of the mainstream being slow to take on the avant garde but something strikes me as being odd that I have heard of very few reputable doctors talking seriously about these theories and these treatments.

 

And, as an aside, do you have any photo evidence that the regimens and supplements you're suggesting are truly beneficial? The theories do have an air of plausability, but I could say that about many theories that end up being bogus or ultimately ineffective. A good range of visual evidence would, I imagine, be available if this insulin reduction is taking off and proving to be useful.

 

I am intrigued by what you've brought up but this is, like many industries, a very fickle and dangerous one. There are lots of desperate people out there who want to believe anything and I've seen all sorts of sensible, coherent people reduced to buying literally stockpiles of vitamins, herbs, ointments, believing all sorts of combinations are working out when they're really not. Whilst of course I'm not suggesting this is you (you certainly seem to have been thorough in your research), I'm keen to find out how solid the evidence is for some of the theories suggested. Whatever people say about finasteride or minoxidil there is strong and widespread evidence both can work well, even if the opinions on safety and efficacy can range. This insulin theory merits further research, but I'm keen to know if there really is a movement here with evidence and supporters, or whether it amounts to a few quotable reports and a couple of claims of success from the odd individual here and there.

 

I'm of the common sense belief (rightly or wrongly so) that, ultimately, if something works (or even looks likely to work), everybody and his bald uncle will be hearing about it pretty quickly. I'm not a subscriber that there's weird concoctions of emu oil and saw palmetto and this and that which offer magic cures or hugely effective advancements but the general balding public are 'unaware' of them. Of course that could always be the case, but this is not an industry that could sit on such effective treatments so quitely (nor would want to). You can argue finasteride and minoxidil are pushed by greedy corporations keen to make an impression on their customers and this is the reason for their success; you might even be right. I however, am still yet to be convinced that the only reason fin and minoxidil are so popular is because ultimately they still offer the best chance overall at hair maintenance and regrowth. If there are safer or more effective treatments out there I'd be incredibly excited but I'm wary of the idea of not considering conventional treatments in favour of stocking up on ultimately poorly tested herbs, oils and natural treatments to give them a try,

 

That having been said I'm certainly going to start changing my diet. Primarily for my own health, as obesity and related illnesses have been in my family. I figure it cannot hurt to partake in a healthier diet that is more conducive to lowering insulin tolerance and would be keen on documenting how my hair changes. Believe me, the only reason I'm being so suspicious and questioning so firmly is because I want your ideas and suggestions to be right. My experience is don't try to prove a theory by finding evidence for it; try to prove a theory by finding evidence that goes against it. If you get to the point you can't make a strong case against your believed theory, you might be on to a real winner. It's always easy to want to believe and pounce on any shred of positive research but we owe it to ourselves to be suspicious and hopefully be pleasantly surprised!

[Swimmy]

Firstly, do you have any reason why you site finasteride as being hazardous to your health but believe Saw Palmetto to be safe and effective? My concern with Saw Palmetto is that, due to it's nature as a fairly unprofitable naturally occurring substance the clinical testing on it has been, at best, scant. Sure there are lot of 'reports' on the web but the only really reliable sorts of trials (and then 'reliable' is not an easy word to use) are large scale trials involving hundreds/thousands of people over a long period of time with thorough examination. I've read the odd report here and there but it's usually restricted to tens of people at most, or animals. Whilst these reports might have their usage they can't really be used to assess efficacy across the population. I was wondering if you had good evidence to demonstrate SPs effectiveness and safety.

 

Secondly, why do you feel finasteride is damaging? Yes, there have been some horror stories, but to my knowledge the best these qualify as is hearsay. Now, of course we can take the alarmist opinion that the corporations are doing their best to cover up the harmful aspects of their drugs and I cannot outright dispute that, but do we have any real and well reported evidence fin is a widespread problem with genuine repercussions? I continue to find it difficult to believe fin is having such problematic neurological effects. Who is paying for good trialling that discounts the safety of fin? In addition have these neurological side effects been accurately documented in humans? And why would it be that whilst one DHT blocker supposedly causes all sorts of problems a theoretically more potent DHT blocker (Saw Palmetto) is, in your opinion, safe?

For starters Saw Palmetto is commonly prescribed for BPH..In some cases is given as treatment for hair loss by main stream doctors. I think Saw Palmetto may be pretty well documented since that's case. Don't get me wrong I'm not a avid supporter of SP. I don't even use it. I think you can still get similar sides that arent as strong in the libido department..

 

 

Saw Palmetto does not decrease serum blood levels of DHT...Fin does. When DHT is cutoff this is what leads to neurological effects. DHT plays a important part in brain function.Fin inhibits production of neurosteroids by blocking everything down the 5-alpha reductase chain of hormone metabolites.

 

 

 

Finally, the insulin theories and treatments you have been citing - why have these not come into mainstream popularity and dermatologists/trichologists keen to take these ideas and treatments on board? I find it difficult to believe that insulin has been discovered as one of the major 'smoking guns' of hairloss with good treatments and lifestyle-based ways of solving the problem, but that professionals generally haven't it on board. This of course could be a genuine case of the mainstream being slow to take on the avant garde but something strikes me as being odd that I have heard of very few reputable doctors talking seriously about these theories and these treatments.

Its possible that a lot of them haven't read the studies. The theory itself however is realtively new. In the broad spectrum of things only a small handful of people would have even heard about this. The information is out there but people have failed to put it all together and do the math. If you look at it this way we have been led to believe that DHT is the problem without question. Not to say that its a conspiracy cause a lot of the doctors still do believe that

 

But maybe some doctors do know the underlying causes but play it safe and go mainstream.

 

 

 

And, as an aside, do you have any photo evidence that the regimens and supplements you're suggesting are truly beneficial? The theories do have an air of plausability, but I could say that about many theories that end up being bogus or ultimately ineffective. A good range of visual evidence would, I imagine, be available if this insulin reduction is taking off and proving to be useful.

I personally don't have any photos to mark my progress. All I can tell you is that i've been on it since Jan and my shedding as gone down. I'm also very, very slowly getting regrowth in my temples that I'm constantly monitering. However, I'm not fully taking everything I need to be yet. I figured I would implement slowly. I still have to change my diet which is a big part. But my life gets a little hectic and sometimes fast food is more convenient than make a healthy meal. Edited September 24, 2010 by Swimmy

[DCHR]

Its listed in this list.

 

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf

[aaron1234]

Nice find there DCHR. I guess I wasn't crazy after all.

[Rhino3]

Target offers the same price, and CVS is cheap too -- I forget how much at CVS, but it's comparable.