Help Help help urgent Anyone suggest me yar.

[Swimmy]

Excessive levels of estrogen in men occurs under the following circumstances: obesity, excessive alcohol use, smoking, and exposure to xeno-estrogens (pesticides in the environment). Pesticides are most concentrated in meats and dairy products that are loaded with chemicals that mimic estrogens.

All of these factors that worsen the ratio of testosterone allowing estrogen to dominate can accelerate premature aging and health decline which could include: hair loss. Some studies suggest that even hair loss and baldness may be associated with high-fat diets that stimulate the overproduction of testosterone, which is converted to bad estrogen. DHT often sited as the bad guy in hair loss is only part of the picture. In fact, testosterone actually can assist or enhance hair growth on top of the head provided the estrogen levels are management. In the ideal situation, Testosterone is in the highest concentration, followed by DHT, which might make up close to ? to 1/3 the total androgen load, and estrogen will make up the lowest portion of concentration. However, when estrogen increases too high, the testosterone receptors are blocked by the estrogen, and testosterone will be crowded out. This leaves the door open for DHT to take the dominate position. An androgen must be present for a man to be a man. In this case you don’t want it to be DHT, it must be testosterone, with estrogen brought back down to safe levels.

Other problems that develop associated with estrogen dominance in men include depression, catabolic muscle decline, loss of sex drive or performance, breast and uterine cancer in women, and prostate enlargement and prostate cancer in men.

 

 

A study conducted by a University of Southern California (USC) medical team found 8 out of 27 high-risk men taking the drug Proscar developed tumors within one year, despite having 67% lower DHT levels. I propose the real problem is not DHT; it is high estrogen levels in the prostate. Proscar lowers the DHT too much and can cause impotency, whereas the beta sistosterol in saw palmetto proved to be twice as effective in restoring urine flow in men with enlarged prostate, without the side effects of impotency. This is because beta sistosterol inhibits androgen receptor binding, while finasteride (Proscar) only reduces 5 alpha reductase. Even though Proscar reduces DHT concentration in the prostate by 80%, it only decreases the prostate size by 18%. Over 63% of men experience no improvement in symptoms using Proscar, even after being on the drug for a year, and over 5% of Proscar users suffer decreased libido, impotence, and ejaculatory disorders.

 

 

 

I would also advise the OP that fin does in fact decrease Prostate cancer if he wishes to take it. But studies have shown a increase in severity of the cancer.

[bald1998]

Hi freinds

I think we got good and fruitful discussion here, I got confused with all those biological terminology used in the discussion.but moral of story is which medice I shud prefer of my age 30, finasteride 1 mg or 5 mg...any side effect or precaution if i take 5 mg. plz explain in brief. Some one suggesting Dermaheal or Crescina or minoxdil 5% or 15%..

 

Plz see my pics and tell me which one should I start taking to benefit immediate result as my hair is thinning and i want to go hair transplant once my hair gain some strength. pleas give me details of minoxdil 5% or 15% usabilty which should i prefer, as i am in NW6 stage..

please give some time to see my pics and basic detials of my profile and then my doubt and then only give your suggestion and prescription...

 

 

I would be looking for doctor suggestion as well....

thank you..

[j1j9j85]

im sorry swimmy but your understanding is way out on the HPTA in humans and endocrine system and homeo stasis............... some of things you are saying jus isnt true..........................

 

i have experiance in this field due to my job and my hobby.

 

im going to take my time to address your points now.......

[Swimmy]

Hi freinds

I think we got good and fruitful discussion here, I got confused with all those biological terminology used in the discussion.but moral of story is which medice I shud prefer of my age 30, finasteride 1 mg or 5 mg...any side effect or precaution if i take 5 mg. plz explain in brief. Some one suggesting Dermaheal or Crescina or minoxdil 5% or 15%..

 

Plz see my pics and tell me which one should I start taking to benefit immediate result as my hair is thinning and i want to go hair transplant once my hair gain some strength. pleas give me details of minoxdil 5% or 15% usabilty which should i prefer, as i am in NW6 stage..

please give some time to see my pics and basic detials of my profile and then my doubt and then only give your suggestion and prescription...

 

 

I would be looking for doctor suggestion as well....

thank you..

 

 

 

Its up to you. A doctor will generically tell you to go on minox and fin cause they are FDA approved. That's a given.

 

 

If you want you can take Minox,fin, and then take a stab at other things to. You're not relegated to just one. Go at it at all angles.

[EpilepticSceptic]

Swimmy,

 

It was my understanding from reading the Merck study that DHT is the culprit causing enlarged prostate in older men, and that finasteride therapy shrinks the prostate. But you are saying that DHT shrinks the prostate ?

 

Your points do not match with the long term Merck study I read on finasteride.

 

And I haven't yet read anywhere that testosterone causes MPB. I think it is pretty well accepted that DHT causes MPB, not testosterone.

[j1j9j85]

Estrogen doesn't directly make DHT. But it is responsible for a enlarged prostate. DHT does not Enlarge the prostate but does the opposite. It is a defensive mechanism and has a purpose. Estrogen is a underlying cause of MPB. This is also why nizoral is effectve. Its anti estrogen and displaces both DHT and estradiol from SHBG...Like i said earlier Estrogen effects other parts your body..Such as insulin resistance. High insulin resistance increase DHT

 

dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a substance derived from testosterone in the prostate, which may help control its growth. Most animals lose their ability to produce DHT as they age. However, some research has indicated that even with a drop in the blood's testosterone level, older men continue to produce and accumulate high levels of DHT in the prostate. This accumulation of DHT may encourage the growth of cells. Scientists have also noted that men who do not produce DHT do not develop BPH.

 

Green tea. Has shown studies to regrow hair. It also has shown to decrease estrogen In women. Estrogen is tied to not only prostate cancer in men, but breast cancer in women.EGCG increased IGFBP-3 (which is shown to be low in men with male pattern baldness) and that these same polyphenols help to decrease circulating estrogen levels as well! I mention this cause Green Tea is pro testosterone like Vitamin E and they work to lower estrogen levels

 

im not saying estrogen isnt bad it really is bad. its a cause of prostate problems and can shut your natural test production down hard..... if male humans have high levels of oestrogen the only way the human body can stop this is via stopping production of testosterone as all oestrogen in males is mostly from the conversion of excess test in the body. so oetrogen is 100 times more suppressive on the hpta axis......... and its actualy the high oestogen as a result of taking fin that results in the sides libo,ED etc, as bloods indicate free testosterone is higher when taking finest but sides continue as oestorgen is high.....

 

"

 

 

 

Estrogen is not too much of a problem in young men. As you get into your 30's you want to increase your testosterone..Not decrease it.

 

True statement which is why many men with lower test as a result of aging are sometimes put on HRT

[j1j9j85]

The thing is Fin will increase estrogen(which enlarges the prostate) which in turns aggravates Insulin resistance. High insulin resistance and Estrogen in return Up regulates DHT. Though DHT has a role in shrinking the prostate it is not the culprit of a enlarged prostate.

 

the above statement isnt true DHT does have a roll in enlarging the prostate? Also how is DHT up regulated?

 

[Swimmy]

Swimmy,

 

It was my understanding from reading the Merck study that DHT is the culprit causing enlarged prostate in older men, and that finasteride therapy shrinks the prostate. But you are saying that DHT shrinks the prostate ?

 

Your points do not match with the long term Merck study I read on finasteride.

 

And I haven't yet read anywhere that testosterone causes MPB. I think it is pretty well accepted that DHT causes MPB, not testosterone.

 

 

 

We are talking about later age use of Fin. If Estrogen is dominate which is the cause of BPA, DHT will shrink the prostate.

[j1j9j85]

Thinking aloud???

 

As MPB is the direct result of testosterone being converted into the more androgenic form of DHT. For younger men whos test levels and dht androgens levels are already high then a DHT inhibitor such as finest will do the trick and should cease hairloss by decreasing the cause DHT conversion via inhibiting the enzymes responsible for DHT conversion from testosterone.

 

The only time a DHT inhibitor such as finest will not be effective is when you are presented with an older age male 40+ who has low androgens testosterone and DHT base levels in the begining any way. As theoreticaly he should be already balding if he is a sufferer of MPB. And finest will be useless as test isnt being converted any way to DHT due to the low levels of testosterone and androgens conversion!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This same individual how ever may experiance,

 

A 2nd wave of hair loss during a secondary wave in lata years. By secondary i mean after the intial shedding experinced via the on set of MPB in his earlyer years 20-30's etc etc, lata i mean 60-80s

 

As a result of oestrogen gaining very high levels due to it going un managed by high adrogens (dht test) as they oppose oestrogen and decrease it.... then the older male will have less or no test production to counter act the oestrogenic effects. The prostate which is known to store DHT then releases DHT in to the bodys system to bring oestrogen levels down to create homestasis.....

 

once this happens as DHT is stored in the prostate in its raw form when its released it does not need to be coverted via the 5a-enzymes so finesteride and dut will be useless and ineffective as its already been converted to DHT and inhibiting the enzymes will be pointless..........

 

and this is when i suspect hair loss starts again as a result of being triggerd by estrogen levels being high but caused due to the DHT being released by the prostate...............

[j1j9j85]

We are talking about later age use of Fin. If Estrogen is dominate which is the cause of BPA, DHT will shrink the prostate.

 

High Estrogen is a factor in a BPA but so is DHT, DHT is stored inside the prostate people who dont have high levels of DHT dont have enlarged prostates.(DHT), a substance derived from testosterone in found inside the prostate which may help control its growth. Most animals lose their ability to produce DHT as they age. However research has indicated that even with a drop in the blood's testosterone levels older men continue to produce and accumulate high levels of DHT in the PROSTATE. This accumulation of DHT may encourage the growth of cells.

 

Scientists have also noted that men who do not produce DHT do not develop BPH.

 

The only way DHT can shrink the prostate is if prostate swelling is caused by high oestrogen then oestorgen will be suppressed by the DHT and oestrogen levels lowerd then resulting in a less inflamed prostate.

 

but i would just use arimidex an AI or anti oestrogen to lower oestrogen if thats the case!!

 

DHT does cause prostate enlargment itself so by using it to reduce prostate size it eventualy may also cause it!!!

Edited July 29, 2010 by j1j9j85

[j1j9j85]

Why BPH Occurs

 

The cause of BPH is not well understood. No definite information on risk factors exists. For centuries, it has been known that BPH occurs mainly in older men and that it doesn't develop in men whose testes were removed before puberty. For this reason, some researchers believe that factors related to aging and the testes may spur the development of BPH.

Throughout their lives, men produce both testosterone, an important male hormone, and small amounts of estrogen, a female hormone. As men age, the amount of active testosterone in the blood decreases, leaving a higher proportion of estrogen. Studies done on animals have suggested that BPH may occur because the higher amount of estrogen within the gland increases the activity of substances that promote cell growth.

Another theory focuses on dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a substance derived from testosterone in the prostate, which may help control its growth. Most animals lose their ability to produce DHT as they age. However, some research has indicated that even with a drop in the blood's testosterone level, older men continue to produce and accumulate high levels of DHT in the prostate. This accumulation of DHT may encourage the growth of cells. Scientists have also noted that men who do not produce DHT do not develop BPH.

Some researchers suggest that BPH may develop as a result of “instructions” given to cells early in life. According to this theory, BPH occurs because cells in one section of the gland follow these instructions and “reawaken” later in life. These “reawakened” cells then deliver signals to other cells in the gland, instructing them to grow or making them more sensitive to hormones that influence growth.

[Swimmy]

the above statement isnt true DHT does have a roll in enlarging the prostate? Also how is DHT up regulated?

 

Ah remember we are talking about late use of Fin when estrogen is more prominent. I believe the role of DHT switches a little when the Prostate is enlarged by estrogen. Excess estrogen blocks testosterone receptors and DHT becomes dominant. This is really bad cause the western diet is estrogenetic. If you look at japan they are the healthiest nation in the world and have hew cases of MPB. I contribute this to there healthy eating style and don't have a problem with Insulin resistance.

 

 

 

 

Bottom line. If you are older get your blood work done before going on Fin. You want increase your Testosterone and lower your estrogen. In return this will down regulate DHT. Its a balancing game

 

]

[Swimmy]

If you take fine also check your DHT/Androstanediol ratio.

[j1j9j85]

swimmy are you even reading my posts.............????

 

take another look at my posts and read them i reffer to late use finest and dht issues.............

 

your not even reading ur just re writing your own statment over and over

[Swimmy]

swimmy are you even reading my posts.............????

 

take another look at my posts and read them i reffer to late use finest and dht issues.............

 

your not even reading ur just re writing your own statment over and over

 

Yes I read I it. For the most part you seem to agree with exactly what I said. Your issue seems to be with BPH. Where you are inclined to believe it is cause by DHT, and me ,estrogen. But studies are increasingly showing that Estrogen is playing a huge role in BPH..

 

In a Japanese study, Dr. Suzuki and his team of researchers, reported that men with the least prostate enlargement had higher levels of testosterone! Additionally, men whose prostates were enlarged had higher levels of estrogen. The scientists in this study concluded that bad, unmetabolized estrogen levels are highly correlated with prostate size and volume. Unfortunately, the need to reduce “bad estrogen’ is the opposite of what most physicians have been taught. Many urologists are incorrectly treating patients with prostate disease by suppressing testosterone and increasing estrogen.

 

 

In a clinical study by Dr. Wang and colleagues reported in JCEM 83: 2749, 1998, it was shown that DHT improved total androgen (male sex hormones) levels while significantly decreasing the estradiol levels within 14 days. Estradiol is considered the most dominant estrogen circulating in the blood, and if elevated, it can block the benefits of testosterone. DHT cannot be aromatized into estradiol; therefore, it can provide beneficial androgen replacement for testosterone deficient men while avoiding the side effect of gynecomastia (enlarged fatty breast tissue in men). Dr. Eugene Shippen has also sited studies that prove testosterone and its more powerful derivative, DHT, can actually protect the prostate.

A study using DHT gel reported by a researcher in Germany named Schaison in 1990, showed that in patients with hypogonadism, appropriate virilization was attained, muscle mass increased and sexual function improved, without an increase in prostate size. In the Annuals Medicine, 25 1993:235, a researcher named De Lignieres found that older men age 55 to 70 years of age gained improved sexual function and a 15% decrease in prostate size over the course of two years by using DHT gel.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Swimmy

[EpilepticSceptic]

So I suppose all of those older men aged 50-70 who reversed their BPH on finasteride (due to drsatic reduction of DHT in the prostate) in the Merck study were a FLUKE, right ?

 

That controlled study is not valid scientific information, right ?

 

What about the men in their late 60s who have been on 5 mg Fin for 20 years now, and whose prostate conditions have remained healthy as a direct result of Fin. ?

 

Oh yeah, and what about the men 40+ who have been on 1.25 mg Fin. for 15 years or more and haven't seen any further significant MPB ? The majority of the men I know in this category have had this as their experience. Are they all flukes as well ?

[j1j9j85]

i agree that oestrogen is part of the cause of a enlarged prostate but how can u say that DHT does not play a roll init when men who have no DHT never get prostate problems?

 

read the bellow its straight from a medical resource book!

 

 

Why BPH Occurs

 

BPH occurs mainly in older men and that it doesn't develop in men whose testes were removed before puberty.

 

BPH MAY occur because the higher amount of estrogen within the gland increases the activity of substances that promote cell growth.

 

(DHT), a substance found in the prostate, may help control growth.This accumulation of DHT may encourage the growth of cells. Scientists have also noted that men who do not produce DHT do not develop BPH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bald1998]

Dear all

Plz anyone tell me ..should I start taking Finasteride(1mg). For my background story, I am unmarried,30 year, started loosing and thinning my hair 10 year back, and in NW6 Stage of baldness. Soon I ll be going for HT somewhere in India or Dubai so consulting doct. and taking appointment for the next month. You please suggest me should I start taking this medicine or not as I afraid of impotency being unmarried guy.

 

My second queries is About DHI(direct hair implant Vs. Hair FUSE... which one is better in respect of price,quality, treatment and side effect, I request you all that Please explain me in details

[Blake Bloxham]

Bald1998,

 

I think I replied to a few of your concerns in a different thread, but I'm going to address your questions here and then merge the two threads:

 

1. In my opinion, you should give finasteride another shot. I'm not sure how profound the impact would be, but it could help thicken up some crucial areas and make a transplant a more realistic option at a later date.

 

2. From what I can tell, "DHI" and "Hair FUSE" are simply different names for follicular unit extraction (FUE) surgery. Hence, the treatment and potential side effects would be quite similar. However, I am unsure if you're a candidate for a FUE procedure, and I would recommend consulting with a recommended hair transplant surgeon who performs FUE (if you want to have your scalp analyzed for this procedure).

[bald1998]

@future, I am already contacted with Hair Fuse sergion that is DR. ******, and have converstaion and email exchnge with him, then only I came on conclusion, That i should be opting for any of these two treatment. But I want to enquire more aboit it. Does it has side effect ?If yes then what are those? This ll be costing about same..

About my second queries. I am unmarried so my whole concern for taking finasteride is very critical. So its nothing like I should give try and lator on leave it. Once you continue then you to continue taking this medicine. So plz tell me what to do?

[TakingThePlunge]

bald1998,

 

According to statistics, less than 2% of men experience sexual side effects on Propecia (finasteride). For the vast majority of those that do experience side effects, those effects will diminish along with discontinuation of the drug. I have heard some people complain about long lasting problems after they quit taking it.

 

Finasteride has been discussed many, many times on this forum and you can access literally years worth of discussions by using the search feature.

 

I know that I have read here before about guys having babies with their wives while taking finasteride. I myself have been using it for a year and a half and have not experienced any erectile problems.

 

All the best,

[bald1998]

Thnks devid for information. People taking Finasteride can have their babies? rght!!!

[bald1998]

Can anyone for explaing me in brief. .1st of all I would like to go for HT which would either be direct hair Implant or Hair fuse. So please give some light on these two method which is better and dont have side effects. And I would definetly considering Dr.Humayun from pakistan and from augst I am shifting in Dubai for another 6-7 month, so I am looking forward to meet him there once I get all details like email id and all. could you provide me any details of him..

 

Second things as I am unmarried so my Gf and me both worried about taking finasteride as I may become impotent and other sort of sideeffect. Could you give light on that. As you see my pics i started loosing my hair from all side of my scalp long before and now I am thinking of HT only.

 

Another factor is price, Dr. Madhu told me that I require extensive hair of about more than 4000Graft aslo my donor area is not looking good, so for him I m not a good candidates for HT and also they told me that it ll take more than 10000USD.

 

Then I contacted Dr. ****** he said i require 7000grft and cost arund 9000USD. Then i contacted DHI clinic india they told me abt require 3000+grft and ll require 10000-12000usd.

 

You plz suggest me.wht shud I do.. can u send ur yahoo id or ur contct no. ..

[j1j9j85]

i can see you are very upset by your hair loss as i was when mine started its horrible, im gunna do my best to answer some of your qs and tell you my story which may also help you with your decission???

 

im 25 and have been on finesteride on and off for the last 5 years!!!! i have experianced some little side effects but in my opinion nothing that really worried me.................... and if i was you id would do the following....

 

 

• take 1mg of finesteride everyday
  
• use rogaine 2times a day
  
• nizoral and allpectin shampoo 3 times a week
  
• multivit with vit's b complex amino acids and pro hair vits/mins zinc etc
  
• use a good concealer (toppik dermatch nanogen)
  
• book a hairtransplant with the nearest coalition DR for as many grafts as you can afford i would say you need around 5000 for a god result if you choose a good dr that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  

then once you have done the above and stuck to the measure for a year!!!! if you havent the result you desire, i can gaurantee it will be alot better than it is now and improved and if nothing else you will at least stopped future hair loss by using finesteride to a degrea!!!!

 

now as far as im concerned not alot else can be said on the matter!!!

 

finesteride will not stop you having kids and if you do get bad sides which is very unlikey and i have not my self just stop and it will return to normal!!!!

 

hope this helps now start the taking the measures i have mentioned above

[Blake Bloxham]

Bald1998,

 

Did you review the link I shared on follicular unit extraction (FUE)? Both these method (from what I can tell) are just different names for a FUE procedure. I'm not sure what you mean by side effects? Why don't you research FUE (using the link I provided) and then clarify what you mean by side effects.

 

Also, I really hope you are taking your status as a hair transplant candidate in general seriously. If I recall, Dr. Madhu said (due to thinning in the donor area) that you were not a candidate for surgery at this time. I also told you to be very wary of clinics that agreed to operate, because the outcome could leave you worse off.

 

Additionally, like David (TakingThePlunge) said, only around 2% of individuals experience the sexual side effects from Propecia, and it could definitely help your current predicament.

 

Finally, I really think you should review some of the advice individuals have suggested in this thread. In my opinion, you are probably not a candidate for transplant surgery at this time (according to Dr. Madhu) and should look into using minoxidil (Rogaine) and finasteride (Propecia) and hope for something in the future.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Future_HT_Doc