Poor Growth with Initial Transplant

[mpd]

Thanks for info on this site - very informative. I had my initial HT about 16 months ago and am very unhappy with the outcome. 1900 FUT grafts were transplanted and the result is that I have noticeably less hair now than b4 surgery. Went to a very reputable doc in NJ and his explanation was the infamous shock fallout. He claims that the grafts survived but I ended up losing more native hair than was transplanted. Is this possible? I am just very skeptical that many of the grafts survived although he tells me that there is almost a 0% chance that grafts don't survive IF DONE PROPERLY. I was aware that I would likely lose some native hair but I had over 4000 hairs transplanted so it just doesn't add up. How can one ever know for sure if the grafts survived. Just seems like I lost much hair from the fallout without any new harirs to compensate. Was expecting one step backward and then two seps forward over the course of the year following surgery - instead it feels (and looks)like 3 steps backwards! People that knew I had the surgery have asked me "What happened?"

I am very upset because now I don't know what to do. Can't imagine going thru this ordeal again with another HT given my experience but don't want to accept this as my fate either!Feel like I am in the middle of a bad dream and can't wake up!

[Rhodeman]

mpd,

 

Do you have any before/after pics? Are you on any meds? Who was the doc? Were the grafts spread out or dense packed?

[mpd]

Yes, I do have b4 and after pics but I am not sure I feel comfortable posting on the web. My doctor (Bernstein) also has these in his files. I have been on meds for several years (Propecia since 2000) and have recently upped the dosage (from 1 mg to 2.5 mg) based on suggestion from Dr. B. Not expecting any help from the increased dosage as Propecia never did much for me in my humble opinion.

[stumper]

Hello mpd I feel terrible for you he is a good doc is he offering any compensation for you.

[mpd]

Haven't discussed this with him - frankly I am more focused on "fixing" my hair problem but I am not sure how to be honest...

[gazzasgoin2]

Godzluv69 also recently posted about poor growth from Dr. Bernstein.

 

Isnt he supposed to be the pioneer of FUT and one of the Coalition Surgeons??

[pushing 40]

hmm, kind of questionable. I had a lot of wispy little weak hairs I thought would most assuredly die from the transplant. But, they all pretty much survived. I don't know if shock loss is a completely acceptable answer here.

[Bill - Seemiller]

mpd,

 

I'll be honest...withouth before/immediately post op/after pictures, it will be difficult to give you an honest evaluation.

 

But generally speaking...

 

YES it's possible!

 

You may have very well lost a lot more native hair where the transplanted hairs survived, especially if you weren't on any medication to help prevent future loss.

 

But I can't rule out the possibility that you had poor growth...

 

But also keep in mind that 1900 grafts (4000 hairs) is NOT a lot of grafts/hairs. If you indeed lost a lot more native hair, if these grafts were spread out over a larger area, you would not have a lot of density left.

 

If you are familiar with editing images, you can edit your pictures in a way where your face cannot be seen. Would you be willing to post your pics then? If you need any help doing this, feel free to PM me.

 

Bill

[Guest wanthairs]

I think its time for Pat to look into this. This is the third crappy review of angry patients in the last three days of Dr. Bernsteins work......

 

His website looks great and he has much knowledge, but this is indeed worrying. Maybe time to go "off with another head"

[stumper]

Yes,Off with his head.

[gazzasgoin2]

Guys,

We need to be careful not to get hysterical, otherwise it looks like we are on a witch hunt. Of course we are not but are rightly concerened with a few recent experiences with Dr.Bernstein.

 

To make fair comments here I think we would need to see mpd's before and after pics and perhaps some input from Dr. Bernstein.

[mpd]

Folks,

 

I don't want to slam Dr. B as I belive he is a good doctor based on reported experiences from many other patients he has worked on. I can only say that in my particular situation and for whatever reason, I was deeply disappointed with the outcome in that I am worse off now than b4 the procedure. I will post some after pics shortly, but unfortunately I don't have any digital pics beforehand for comparison purposes. I can only tell you that I have less fair now than b4 the procedure (I'm sure Dr. B would agree).

 

By the way, a post today by wanthairs suggests that Pat look into this. Since I am new to this forum, pls. advise who Pat is.

 

Thanks.

[Guest]

mpd, Pat is the founder/publisher of this forum.

 

he doe's review all the doctors admitted as coaltion doctors.

 

if a bad case is brought to his attention by a patient/member, he will ask the doctor to account for it.

If he is not satisfied with the answer or a Doctor refuses to be accountable, Pat will discontinue the doctors membership.

 

He basically started this forum after his own hairtransplant experiences & recognized a need for a patient advocate website.

Thats the short story.

[mpd]

Folica,

 

Thanks for the background on Pat - that is very helpful...

[mpd]

All, I took some digital pics today of my hair situtaion but each pic seems to be more than the 350K allowed on this site so it is not allowing me to post. If someone can help me with this probelm I would be glad to attempt to post.

 

Thanks!

[MrJobi]

Guys

 

I have seen these 2 issues about Dr. B on here but I do not recall any pictures to support this.. Of course, I'm not saying this didn't happen but I do know from my own experience getting 1400 plus grafts 2 times, I thought the results would be more significant that they were. It wasn't the doc but rather my expectation level and knowldge.. When I finally looked at before and after shots at Dr. Trues office I realized I was improving but I needed more hair.. Ironically, the graft calculator claimed I needed 5000 grafts.. Well, guess what I ended up with ???

 

I just thought I would need less but 1400 an 1400 didn't get the job done. I was a N5 what can I say ??

[mpd]

All,

 

Here is a pic taken on 7/7/07. My feeling is I have far less hair now then prior to surgery. I do not have any digital pics beforehand (mistake on my part). I can only say that I am deeply disappointed with the outcome. I do belive my expectations were very realistic going into the surgery. Bottom line is I anticipated improvement in my look and not a step backward.

[Bill - Seemiller]

mpd,

 

I was going to offer for you to PM me if you need help, but it seems that you found a way to reduce the size of your pictures. Very good.

 

Once again, without before pictures, it would be difficult to tell you what is going on.

 

I don't think anyone will have a hard time believing you have less hair now than before surgery.

 

But the question is...

 

Did you have poor growth of the transplanted hairs? Or did all the transplanted hairs grow and you had additional native hair loss?

 

If not all the transplanted hairs grew...this can be pinned on Dr. Bernstein...

 

However, if all the transplanted hairs grew, and you lost additional native hair, leaving you with a net loss, it's more tricky.

 

If the doctor transected hair follicles, it could be pinned on the clinic, however, if you just simply lost native hairs on their way out (whether shocked or not), this is NOT something ANY doctor can control.

 

Do you happen to know if Dr. Bernstein took any before pictures of your scalp before he did the transplant? MOST doctors do, this is why I ask. Perhaps he can email you some for you to post on here so we can get a better understanding of what happened. Post op photos would also be helpful.

 

What does Dr. Bernstein say about this at this point? How is he handling this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[mpd]

Yes, Dr. did take before pics of me prior to surgery. His point of view is that I lost more native hair than grew from the surgery thus the net loss. But how do I know this is true - how does one know if the grafts actually survived and grew. All I know is that I have sunstantially less hair after the procedure.

 

Dr. B's view is to wait for a period of time and then do a 2nd mega procedure to give me the improvement I am looking for. But based on the results of my 1st procedure, I am naturally apprehensive - hoefully you can see why. If I had confidence that a 2nd procedure would result in improvement I would feel better (thought this would be the case from my 1st surgery) but after what I have gone through, who is to say that it would not make matters even worse???

[erldette]

During the consultation, the doctor should take into account the amount of existing hair and let the patient know that if shock loss occurs there might not be a net gain of hair. Was this covered during your consultation?

[Guest]

Well I for one would not be happy either.

 

In fact, as Bill mentioned, I would like to see more pics,

*Before any surgery

*Immediate post op

*A clearer current picture

 

Jobi, even if the grafts did grow, the question

is shouldn't the doctor have a plan? A resposibilty to guide the patient as to the outcome/expectations?

 

Example: You go into surgery with a plan to cover say the front third tuft.

Wouldn't you as the doctor dense pack that area in one pass. And knowing that you transplanted 40 to 45 grafts per cm2, your expectations would be that area is a done deal.

 

It's one thing to be an educated patient however, I believe it is the doctors job to also educate the patient on his particular procedure & what the expectations should be.

 

From what I have been reading here lately it seems that some Doctors need to practice patient education & scheduled follow ups throughout the growth process.

 

I am not saying this wasn't done in MPD's case because I don't know.

 

What I stated above is what I think should be happening.

[Bill - Seemiller]

MPD,

 

I suggest you ask Dr. B to send you the before photos and post them for us along with more clear current pictures. Any immediately post op pictures would be helpful too.

 

I would suggest that it IS possible to tell whether or not you've lost more native hair or the transplanted grafts didn't grow.

 

And I believe with adequate before/immediately post op/after pictures, some of us may be able to help determine that. But the immediately post op pictures will be necessary to see where the grafts were transplanted.

 

I would suggest, however, that if you are not satisfied, that you go to a different doctor for your second round. I want to be clear that I am NOT pointing blame at Dr. B since I don't have enough information...but ultimately, your satisfaction is what matters.

 

Bill

[erldette]

We are seeing more and more of this, A patient of H&W posted is results at 5.5 months, and he had more hair in his before photos, then in the 5 month photos, in my opinion he should have never been done, he will never see his native hair again, and was just set up for future surgeries wether he can afford them or not, Doctors have to be more accountable and responsible.

[Jotronic]

erldette,

 

Do you know what shock loss is? Do you realize that there are two types of shock loss?

 

Type 1: Permanent. This can be caused by over sized incision instruments that tax the blood supply too much for even relatively healthy native hairs to recover from. The main cause however is due to direct damage via transection by the incision instruments when the incisions are not made in a manner that matches the angle and direction of the native hairs.

 

Type 2: Temporary. This is usually caused because of the surgery itself and the trauma that it can induce. If the hairs were relatively strong then they should come back if they were not physically damaged from the incision instruments. Finer hairs that are so miniaturized that they would have been gone in several months most likely will not come back.

 

The patient you are referring to will not have a zero gain from his procedure with Dr. Wong. You stated that his five month photos show less hair than his before photos. First, you are seeing a five month photo taken with flash. Everyone knows now that that makes the scalp appear to have less hair than it does. Secondly, he still has several months of new growth and thickening to look forward to so your assumption of zero net gain is inaccurate. I don't know how you come to the assumption that his net gain will be zero (or even close to it) because you are basing your opinion on very immature results.

[erldette]

Lets wait and see what his 12 month photos show.

Shouldn't a person lose a significant amount of recipient hair before starting this procedure?

How many clients do you turn away each month, or is everyone a candidate? What is the minimum age that your clinic will do a transplant on? Should the Hair Transplant Network impose age limits as part of their standards?