Dropping poison into this Forum's Well

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Over the years I have bitten my tongue and tolerated comments on this forum that I've considered to be ignorant and ill informed in the interest of openness and non censorship. It has been far and few between over the last ten years that I revoked anyone's posting privileges.

 

But when does openness become foolishness? Can and should anyone and everyone be welcome to join this forum community and say and do anything?

 

It took ten years of travel, research and learning to build up the recommendations on this community and the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

 

Yet some who garner their information second hand from unsubstantiated sources pass it along on the forums like it is factual truth.

 

Recently an active member of this community stated on this forum that only two Coalition physicians were worth going to. Yet this person has never visited any of the Coalition clinics or had a hair transplant.

 

I sent him a private stating that I honestly would have surgery with anyone of the Coalition physicians, most of who I have observed doing surgery. I also wrote that his implication that all the other carefully chosen physicians in the Coalition weren't worth going to was an insult to all of them.

 

I found this poster's private reply to me to be contemptuous and showing no regard for the work of this community. After this exchange I felt that if this forum member has no regard for the many carefully chosen members of the Coalition what is he doing on this forum?

 

It's easy to tear things down and criticize them. It's another thing to build them up carefully over many years.

 

I will not stand idly by and let people undermine years of hard work, while they insult truly outstanding physicians.

 

Given this private email exchange, I made the choice to revoke notgoing2gobald's posting privileges. I'd imagine that this decision will be unpopular with some of the members on this forum.

 

Perhaps in time if this poster can show some respect for the work that goes into creating and running this community and for those physicians who are truly doing outstanding work he will be reinstated.

 

But for now, I'm not going to standby and watch someone dropping poison into this well.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Over the years I have bitten my tongue and tolerated comments on this forum that I've considered to be ignorant and ill informed in the interest of openness and non censorship. It has been far and few between over the last ten years that I revoked anyone's posting privileges.

 

But when does openness become foolishness? Can and should anyone and everyone be welcome to join this forum community and say and do anything?

 

It took ten years of travel, research and learning to build up the recommendations on this community and the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

 

Yet some who garner their information second hand from unsubstantiated sources pass it along on the forums like it is factual truth.

 

Recently an active member of this community stated on this forum that only two Coalition physicians were worth going to. Yet this person has never visited any of the Coalition clinics or had a hair transplant.

 

I sent him a private stating that I honestly would have surgery with anyone of the Coalition physicians, most of who I have observed doing surgery. I also wrote that his implication that all the other carefully chosen physicians in the Coalition weren't worth going to was an insult to all of them.

 

I found this poster's private reply to me to be contemptuous and showing no regard for the work of this community. After this exchange I felt that if this forum member has no regard for the many carefully chosen members of the Coalition what is he doing on this forum?

 

It's easy to tear things down and criticize them. It's another thing to build them up carefully over many years.

 

I will not stand idly by and let people undermine years of hard work, while they insult truly outstanding physicians.

 

Given this private email exchange, I made the choice to revoke notgoing2gobald's posting privileges. I'd imagine that this decision will be unpopular with some of the members on this forum.

 

Perhaps in time if this poster can show some respect for the work that goes into creating and running this community and for those physicians who are truly doing outstanding work he will be reinstated.

 

But for now, I'm not going to standby and watch someone dropping poison into this well.

[djdennis]

I guess on a forum we all have opinions and favorites. I guess it depends on what doc and what he is able to do for your case. Each Doc has a little different technique on shaving/nonshaving,mega session/non megga session /fue results/fut results and the list goes on. notgoing2gobald has his opinion as I do! I do respect this gent in his knowledge and contribution to this forum. From what I read he is not a know it all and when he does not know an answer he will be a straight shooter and tell you. I like that about him. Yes he has never had an ht and no experience of the procedure in reality. We understand that this is a forum to help men and woman make good decisions in picking a good ht doctor.

 

Pat I do understand your concern because you did build this site and there are many coalition docs who deserve praise on there work. I think you made your point and I just ask that you would reinstate notgoingto2bald sooner than later. Whats the guy going to do with his time if he does not have this site lol ? Im sure he will behave next time around.

[richie48]

Dear Pat

 

I'm replying with all due respect as this is your forum and your rules , I don't wish to start an online arguement but wanted to air my opinion openly after we have exchanged private pms in the past .

 

In the past few months we have seen three forum members removed or threaterned with removal for speaking up .

 

My issue is with freedom of speach and opinion on a public forum ,

Frog was thrown off for speaking out about issues with concern him , he was accused of having an agender and removed .

I was threatend with removal and accused of having an agenda , this was not true , cleared up and I'm still here .

Notgoingtogobald was removed when his opinion of only two top docs was questioned by you , I don't know the details of your pm , only what info you have disclosed , so can only comment on that , then your top poster was removed because of this .

 

My concern is that these expusions or threats only drive opinions underground or leave your posters not wishing to share thier experience whether good or bad , and all experiences and opinions should be made public knowledge to help hairloss sufferers make informed desisions ,don't you agree ?

 

From time to time Notgoingtogobald had some strange and very much outspoken posts but he also asked some cracking good questions and because he hadn't had any surgery done himself didn't have any affiliation or feel the need to defend his choice of surgeon , he only defended the surgeons he believed produced the best and most consistant results based on his knowledge gathered from your own site .

 

Does that make him an his opinions ,a product of the sucess of this forum ?

 

Removing and threatening people who are outspoken or share bad experiences , in my opinion , will only create one sided views , for the continued sucess of a public forum both sides of any arguement or "controversial" opinions must be heard .

 

I would like you to reconcider notgoings expulsion , as I , and I apriciate I'm only one guy , kinda liked his line of questioning and his strange sence of humour , love him or hate him , agree or disagree with him , did contribute honestly and regularly to this community .

 

Your sincerly

richie

[flyby]

Hi Pat!

 

I think every user on this forum respects the time and work you have put into creating this platform which allows this community to thrive. Your's and Bills knowledge and first hand experience with HT doctors is also very important. With that said, it is also the users who's posts create this community and provide an equally if not MORE important aspect of this community (think Friendster Vs. Myspace or a good nightclub which loses it's flare to another). As with any community it's also very important to have all different types of personalities which make coming to this site informative, interesting and YES sometimes quite entertaining.

 

I'm not sure exactly which post you are referring to where NG2GB said there are only 2 Coalition Docs worth going to (and I do think he should express that as his opinion), but I'm sure that most all users here are smart enough to make their own opinions and judgement and wouldn't rely on the opinion of one member, especially if they did a search on all NG2GB's posts . Also, as you pointed out, he's never had experience with an HT so why would you be worried or insecure that everyone (let alone anyone) would be so influenced by this one persons opinion as to poison the well? Obviosly none of us here know what words were exchanged in your PM's so I'll withhold judgement as to who's right or wrong and I don't think NG2GB should have been disprespectful to you. Perhaps he had too many beers or he took your PM wrong. We all have our moments.

 

I think many if not most here will respectfully ask that you REINSTATE NG2G's privileges. He adds alot of flavor to this site which is a much needed aspect. His posts are not only entertaining, they are also often times insightful and knowledgeble. And I don't think having had and HT is a requirement for providing valuable input. From what I've seen he doesn't try to chime in and tell people about his experience with an HT. Hell, I went to Dr. Alexander and I don't think he's one of the only 2 he would go to. I'm extremely happy so far and I would go to him again if I had to do it again. Yes! Even though NG2GB doesn't think he's one of the two worth going too.

 

I've visited HLH and like I've said in the past the difference to me is that the posters here seem much more inteligent, witty and informed. IMO if you keep him off you'll be losing a valuable and colorful member!

 

Respectfully,

Me

[nobuzz4me]

Pat,

 

I totally agree with Richie and Flyby.

 

So sorry you took his comments so personal, I think those of us who know NGs sense of humor take his and everyone else's posts with a grain of salt.

 

Everyone has an opinion, hell, Jesse Venturi believes 9-11 was a US demolition hit job for example. Isn't that poison in the well?

 

NG had like 1500 posts and most all were fun, good natured and informative to newbies. I think most here are intelligent enough to comb through and seperate the facts and the fun.

 

You should reconsider and reinstate NG, he should be entitled to his opinion and I do not think stating his opinion that only 2-3 docs are worth going to are grounds for suspension,IMO. I thought this was a patient based forum. This all sounds too personal to me, too bad, this site used to be fun.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I agree with Spex

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I think we all know the hard work you put in this community and I for one appreciate it.

I also believe All the coaliton doc are deserving to be in it.

I also would believe that the majority on here have their handful of doctors that they would only let work on them. I know Im one of them.

Everyones list is different as is NGs

[kevkristy]

I was about to post a thank you to Pat in another thread re: his post about openness and democracy.

 

Then I come upon this.

 

This is extremely dissapointing.

 

NG2GB sent me private messages and was far more caring and compassionate than my own doctor. His open candor and colorfulness made me laugh at a time when I was extremely edgy.

 

I think people are smart enough to make their own decision, to place his comments in the proper context.

 

This banning makes me quesiton who the community is really serving.

 

Respectfully, KK

[Bill - Seemiller]

As I have told Pat privately, I have mixed emotions on this decision however, he is entitled to make it. We are not going to agree on every decision, but I know that Pat (just as I am) is working to preserve the good of the overall community, so I stand behind his decision.

 

Notgoing2gobald, though funny and witty at times, had a bad habit of jumping to false conclusions that in some cases could be somewhat misleading and insulting - especially to many elite physicians who have worked hard to provide top level services to their patients, not to mention Pat who had worked hard for years building up a solid and reputable patient community recommending only those physicians who meet our high level of standards. In addition, his private email exchange with Pat (which Pat showed me) did show a lot of contempt for him personally and the efforts of this patient community. We reserve the right to tolerate or not tolerate someone's contempt or attitude and in most cases, we are both very tolerant in the interest of openness and free speech.

 

The primary problem generally speaking is that misleading and unsubstantiated information can spread and become a dogma around here, and that's when we have to worry about the overall patient community. Many balding men and women are surfing here every day looking for solid and truthful information, and though we are not expecting all members to know everything (heck, there is always more to learn) and clearly opinions will vary and rightfully so, members who continually make unsubstantiated claims and show contempt for our efforts are thwarting the help we freely provide to the patients.

 

Does this necessarily mean that he should be suspended for it? I'm not sure I agree entirely with Pat's decision to suspend notgoing2gobald however, as stated above, if he feels its best, then I support his decision because I know he is interested in protecting this overall patient community.

 

If notgoing2gobald is reading this, I'd encourage him to email Pat at pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com to see if something can be worked out.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Jupiter]

lol if hes not back in 2 days, fuck this forum.

ill goto www.hairlosshelp.com

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

NGTGB Email Pat hes no Farrell. Im already bored

[balody]

again a tough one.i liked ng and his humour and inbetween the alba,s he did ask intelligent questions,but sometimes he would be very outspoken about surgeons/clinics who as pat stated,he hadnt any experience of..good or bad.

i hope to see him back one day,maybe when he has had some experience of some sort.

[Jupiter]

dude isnt that what this forums calls for? Thats what a damn balding forum should be for, not to lick every doctors ass. i swear i haven't seen one negative response about any doctor on this forum that pays.. even tho half of there recommended doctors they dont even look at there work.

[nobuzz4me]

Originally posted by balody:

again a tough one.i liked ng and his humour and inbetween the alba,s he did ask intelligent questions,but sometimes he would be very outspoken about surgeons/clinics who as pat stated,he hadnt any experience of..good or bad.

i hope to see him back one day,maybe when he has had some experience of some sort.

 

 

Balody, with all due respect, why would be need to have an "experience" of some sort before being allowed back? Would you want him to have a bad experience (HT) because he did not ask enough questions prior?

 

This guy is intelligent and just jokes to get guys minds off heir baldness and depression about it - good therapy IMO.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

He has just as much expierence as almost anyone else has . Pictures , videos ,and testimonies are as good or better then sitting in the chair loaded with valium and cant see crap but a video. How many times have you read poster saying they forgot this or forgot that. You have to be still not looking everywhere and talking the whole procedure.

Look at how many people left their own state with a coalition doctor there or hell left the country. If this is mainly about what he said about only two doctors then thats a shame because most of us feel that way. Im sure there was a coalition doctor in Pats state and Bill left the country. I did the same thing.

[hairbank]

I've been a regular here over the years but am just coming back after being away for a few months. I haven't posted much w/ NG2GB and won't say aye or nay as to whether he should be banned.

 

I do believe there's a point where a poster can taint a forum...............I'm not referring to NG2GB, I haven't read many of his posts, but, it can happen. Those of you that have been around for awhile, remember the poster "Mahair".......case in point. I guess I'm just saying it can happen and I don't blame Pat for making decisions he feels is best for the forum in the long run.

 

Nothing wrong with freedom of speech on a public forum, but, there still must be guidelines of a sort of we could have a free-for-all to the detriment of the forum, which is meant to help us balding types, not hurt us.

 

Jupiter - in my tenure here, I've seen many negative comments against paying Docs here, and to Pat's credit, he doesn't waste any time removing them if their quality of work is in question. That's one of the reasons I've stuck around so long on HTN was because the integrity of the site is high, IMO.

 

We aren't going to agree with all decisions made by anyone. As I've mentioned I haven't read through NG2GB's posts so I won't comment about him. I can say from experience that I trust Pat to make the decisions that are in the best interest of the site. It's hear as a help to all of us that hate hairloss.

 

As was mentioned, it's possible NG2GB could talk with Pat and maybe these differences can be resolved, hopefully so. If not, I have to trust Pat is doing what he feels is best for the site. It's been around 10 years and has helped countless hairloss sufferers (myself included) so I have to believe, though Pat is human and makes mistakes like the rest of us, he is only doing what he feels is best for the site.

[balody]

hi nobuzz,i just have always felt the same way.i had a great experience twice with my clinic and i will sing their praises untill im blue in the face.i will also comment positively on a dr,s work when i see fit to do so.but i will never post negatively about a doctor because i dont feel i have the right to based on photos and heresay.that should be left to the patient who feels he has been wronged and then left to pat and Bill to take further action if needed.the trouble with the internet is that it is annonomous and you need to trust the likes of pat to keep things fair.

i trust whatever decision he makes as it is his forum and i believe he has our best interest at heart.

[kman]

Hi Pat,

I'm a newbie here so I'm hesitant to give my opinion on this. As the creator(vger of this forum you have provided a valuable tool for the rest of us to share ideas and gain insight into not just HT's but other peoples personal stories of how balding affected them and still others reassurances that there is hope out there. Obviously no one, including you, wants to see that type of exchange censored.

 

Personally, I enjoyed NG2GB posts for his colorful humor and bluntness...he seemed quite the character! He also had some pretty good advice to share. I don't know what was said in his reply to you but there is no excuse for someone to be disrespectful. Once that line has been drawn it is difficult to back down and to be frank, NG2GB must have known there would be ramifications, and I think there has to be, otherwise why bother monitoring?

 

I would like to see his posts once again so hopefully you guys can come to some sort of an understanding. I didn't read the guidelines for posting(even though I accepted them when I joined) but I would prefer some sort of incremental sanctions. That way, such harsh measures as censorship are limited initially. First inexcusable offence and you're banned for 3 weeks(or whatever), no further action is required and reinstatement is automatic. Further offences and...no soup for you!! Banned..1 Year!!

 

I understand the position you're in but hopefully we can look forward to NG2GB's posts in the near future.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Balody but you post in a positive manner based on photos

See your one of the guys that hasnt been unhappy with your doctor.

Its a whole new ballgame when your unhappy.

 

NGTGO just posted what we most of us think.

Without this forum I would have never found Shapiro so Im grateful as hell to Pat but I just believe he should give NG another chance.

Put him on probation ,not the chair

[Bowlforthedog]

Pat you do what you feel is best. As I know that you will make the best decision for this great source and place we have together.

 

thanks

[flyby]

Hey NotGoingToGoBald (NG2GB),

 

We'd all really like to hear your side of the story. Also, how do you feel about the thread here so far and the comments from members?

 

Please post your response here to let us all know. . Oh shit, I forgot you're on restriction and can't post right now . As you can see here, you have a high approval rating so hopefully you can see both sides of the story and work it out. It's not a pissing contest an there's no need for disprespect if there was any. It would be ashame to not have you here. Plus, WTF would you do with all your time. You'de probably drink and smoke too much and join some other shady forum where people aren't as sharp and don't understand your sense of humor and you will be ridiculed by all . I can see it now. As you get older and lose more hair, friends and ladies you'll have to keep all your despair inside and not be able to share with your balding bozo brothers. You'll then turn further towards a life of alcohol and strip clubs and it will be a vicious spiral. You'll become a leper on HLH and you'll then change to only recommending Armani. You'll also start buying into the numerous crazy regimens of different members and you'll even start wearing a homemade laser helmet as you drink, smoke and post. You need the forum and this forum needs you.

 

LATE

[Dewayne]

Well, as one of the "top" posters, here's my opinion... (That was a joke because I was on that list and "top" just means you post a lot).

 

While I did find some of his stuff funny, I can understand the reasoning.

 

As I've mentioned before, I'm a graduate and fan of a college with one of the most storied football programs in history; Alabama. I belong to two of their football forums (they have thousands I suppose as the fan base is rabid). Sometimes my favorite "insider" posters have been kicked off because oftentimes the internet forums provide some sort of power trip and pretty soon they would post wild rumors as fact; but later turned out to be b.s.

 

I truly think this forum can also provide some sort of 'trip' that a person identifies with so much their judgment becomes clouded and they start "poisioning" the whole forum. And I can't blame NGTGB, because when you are planning for a transplant, you sure do a lot more "researching" than you do after you've had one. I'll bet I won't be in the top 20 this month as I've had a good transplant and I'm just waiting for it to grow. There'll be minor issues I post, but it'll get less and less.

 

Someone like that is ok for us old timers (> 2 months as a member), but I imagine there are many new members signing on daily who don't know what to make of all this.

 

I was sort of taken aback when NGTGB made the statement about two docs; but I didn't feel a need to respond. Man, though, I just went to Cooley and considered Drs. Charles, Shapiro and Alexander - but the "top" poster says he wouldn't have a transplant by any of these guys.

(Matter of fact, if Janna hadn't been in surgery the day I called out there, I might of been in Minnesota! ) But I digress.

 

I'd be pissed too if I was a Dr. Charles, Shapiro, etc. because the top poster on here was saying that sort of stuff. And, we don't know the facts of the PM exchange, either.

 

I imagine, by the very nature of the ht process, there will be mostly different people on here in 9-months so it's important to have some standards and processes in place to do a little quality control. So, that's Pat's job.

[Bushy]

Whoa! I log in for a friendly visit and this thread tops the list. Well, as a former "leading poster" in this forum I know that Pat is often caught in a tough spot balancing free speech against keeping the forum intact. Based on the various posts in this thread thus far, it seems clear that most people favor NG2GB's reinstatement.

 

One thing I know of Pat: He'll think things through and, if he agrees that a position is logical and appropriate, he will have no problem reversing himself. Sometimes it might take a few drinks to get that kind of clarity, but it usually follows.

[hairbank]

Bushy.....

 

Where the heck you been, braddah??? How's that mop holdin' up??

 

Sorry..........just taking a thread-break to say hello to an "old" poster/friend....lol

 

Have to agree with you Bushy, as I also mentioned, in my tenure here Pat has always been fair-minded and all about what's best for the site and hairloss sufferers.

 

Peace ~