3000+ grafts/travelling to US for HT

[Paddy_boy]

Howdy all. I came across this site a while ago and it's a great resource I have to say...this is my first post. I'm thinking about having a HT...I'm 34 and have been thinning on the crown and front for about 10 years. It's been pretty slow thankfully so only now is it starting to get noticeable...I'd say I'm a NW 3V. I live in Ireland and there are 2 surgeons that perform HTs. I had a consultation with one (Dr Conor Kiely) - he seems pretty good and he's been at it for over 10 years so he says. However the maximum number of grafts he will take is approx 1400 in a session. I told him of surgeons (such as Hasson & Wong) taking up to 3000 grafts in a session. He said he doesn't understand how they can do this, and he guesses that they are splitting the grafts more than normal to increase the numbers. Would this be true? I'm considering travelling to the UK or the US if it turns out to be a good bit cheaper...Dr Kiely charges 6 euro per graft (about $7.60) So my questions are:

 

- How is it possible to get large numbers (3000+) grafts..are the grafts split more than normal

- Has anyone from Ireland travelled to the UK or US? Has it been worthwhile financially, and also are the surgeons/procedures better there?

 

Thanks a lot...sorry for the long winded post!

 

Cheers,

Paddy_boy

[maki8787]

i also cant understand it.

some docs also do 5000 or 6000 gr. in one procedure.

 

my question is also how many grafts will survive procedure?

my procedure lasted almost 10 hours and i got "only" 2000 grafts.

[JakeVig]

Hi Paddy_Boy,

 

Welcome to the forums, if its one thing you will learn here, it is that you should go to the best regardless of location. You only have one head so the results you get will last a lifetime. Its best not to risk it with substandard doctors. In my opinion there are no high quality doctors in the UK/Ireland, the best doctors in the world reside in the US and Canada. I have not seen an outstanding result from the UK or Ireland. Im also in the UK and based on this forum I decided to go to Dr Ron Shapiro in the US as an excellent result and a completely undetectable hairline was very important to me. I recommend having a few free online consults before deciding on your doctor. Note if you decide on a US doctor you will probably get a discount as an international patient and the prices are much less than the UK.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Paddy_boy,

 

Welcome to our forum. If it had not been for the potato famine we'd probably be neighbors :-)

 

In my opinion, Dr. Collins in Dublin (his uncle was the famous "Micheal Collins" of the Irish revolution) does high quality follicular unit grafting. I visited his clinic at the Black Rock clinic outside Dublin and I was impressed.

 

However, his prices are very high. He charges more than twice what the very best clinics in North America charge.

 

You might want to consider the Farjos in the UK. Their work has really progressed to an ultra refined level.

 

As for session sizes, I do believe that a patient with very good elasticity and density in the donor area can achieve 3,000 plus grafts that are not 3 and 4 hair follicular units that have been trimmed into 1 and 2 hair "sub follicular" unit grafts.

 

However, I do believe that not all clinics' follicular unit grafts average the same number of hairs. Some clinics tend toward cutting smaller grafts that contain less hairs per graft, while other clinics create grafts that may even contain two follicular units that are right next to each other - referred to as "follicular unit families". These follicular unit family grafts may contain 3, 4 or even 5 hairs per graft and are typically placed into the midscalp region to create increased density and fullness. Some clinics also place more than one follicular unit graft into the same incision. This is referred to as a "double follicular unit" graft. For example, if a patient has very few naturally occurring 4 hair grafts, a surgeon may opt to combine a couple of two hair grafts and place them into one incision to create a more robust graft that is similar to a 4 hair follicular unit graft.

 

Thus the number of hairs that may be contained in a "follicular unit" graft can vary depending upon both the clinic (the way they choose to trim grafts) and the patient's characteristics (i.e. some patients have more hairs per follicular unit on average than others).

 

Therefore to enable potential patients to get a more accurate picture of how many hairs are actually being transplanted (i.e. a real apples to apples comparison), I encourage all clinics and patients who are posting their results to give both graft and hair counts for their surgical sessions. Providing the size of the donor strip (i.e. 1.4 cm wide by 14 cm long etc) would also be useful information.

 

No physician has a magic wand that enables them and their staff to yield more hair from a given patient's donor area. They all use scalpels.

 

However, some clinics do maintain a large staff of medical technicians who can yield the maximum number of grafts from a patient during a single session. Only those clinics that have expanded their capacity to enable them to do large patient friendly sessions of densely packed grafts are eligible for membership in the Coalition.

 

The bar for excellence has been raised higher in the past few years. But unfortunatley not all clinics have expanded their capacity and skills to be world class.

 

All the best, Pat

 

Paddy_boy - P.S. One of our forum members "Irish Homer" did come from Ireland to do surgery with Dr. Jeff Epstein in Miami. I suggest you private message him email him by going to his member profile page. Also use the "Find" feature to search for "Ireland" for many of his comments.

[Paddy_boy]

That's great chaps thanks for the advice. You're right Pat we could have been neighbours if it wasn't for that...the past is a different country as they say.

 

I found the website of The International Alliance of Hair restoration Surgeons (IAHRS) www.iahrs.org. This organisation seems to have only the top HT surgeons in the US listed on it by invite only. Having a look at New York I see Bernstein, Epstein, True, and Feller among others. They all look to be very good and Feller seems quite reasonable - $5,950 for 1,300-1,500 grafts. I'm going to continue my research and I'm glad to say the more I find out the more confident I am that a HT is the way to go.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Paddy_boy

[leander]

Paddy-boy,

 

Hi. I'm going to see Dr Conor Kiely soon to check him out. Have you heard any bad things about his work?

 

Also, what was it like looking into the US surgeons? Is the process easy? Are they good surgeons?

 

Leander

[leander]

Hi,

 

Can you tell me how to get in contact with Dr Ron Shapiro please. Was he good? What was your experience?

 

Kind regards,

 

Leander (Ireland)

Originally posted by JakeVig:

Hi Paddy_Boy,

 

Welcome to the forums, if its one thing you will learn here, it is that you should go to the best regardless of location. You only have one head so the results you get will last a lifetime. Its best not to risk it with substandard doctors. In my opinion there are no high quality doctors in the UK/Ireland, the best doctors in the world reside in the US and Canada. I have not seen an outstanding result from the UK or Ireland. Im also in the UK and based on this forum I decided to go to Dr Ron Shapiro in the US as an excellent result and a completely undetectable hairline was very important to me. I recommend having a few free online consults before deciding on your doctor. Note if you decide on a US doctor you will probably get a discount as an international patient and the prices are much less than the UK.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Leander,

 

If you are in Ireland you may want to also check out Dr. Kiely. I was going to visit his clinic earlier this year to observe his surgery but the trip was canceled due to him having a family emergency.

 

I know Dr. Kiely's prices are much more reasonable than Dr. Collins (who charges at least twice that of the very best clinics in North America). But I can't vouche for Dr. Kiely or his work at this point.

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro is without a doubt outstanding. Just use the "Find" feature on this forum to search for "Shapiro" and you'll see what I mean.

 

Best wishes, Pat

[MrJobi]

Coming to the US might be a good idea considering our weak dollar. You can get much more for your money than in EU

[the B spot]

Hi Leander,

 

Please feel free to PM me or simply ask any questions you feel necessary-- I will do my best to answer them.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[Jotronic]

Paddyboy,

 

You're in a good spot to be doing your research. There is a lot of good information to be had once you figure out who is who and learn to weed the facts from the fiction.

 

The question you posed to Dr. Kiely regarding how we (Hasson & Wong) can get 3000 or more grafts in a single session is an easy one to answer.

 

Dr. Hasson and Dr. Wong were once limited to roughly the same number of grafts as the rest of the better docs in the industry. Ten years ago this would have been 1000 to 1200 grafts in a session. As time progressed the doctors recognized the two largest short comings of hair transplant surgery and those are lack of coverage and/or a lack of density from one session. Once they realized this they set out to maximize the amount of density and coverage that is possible in a single session and that is achieved with higher numbers (among other things).

 

Ten years later they routinely perform the largest sessions (on average) in the industry (as far as we know). The average sized session is 4000 to 4500 grafts but averages being averages there are some larger and of course some smaller. We will however recommend more grafts than most clinics even for smaller jobs to still try to obtain that coveted "one pass result".

 

As far as the technical ability to do this, well, there are some things that we have shared and some that we have not but we have identified certain aspects of the donor region that help us to read how wide of a strip we can take for a given session. Knowing where to go wide and then where to compensate for tension by going more narrow is key. This allows for more grafts with less risk of donor stretch-back.

 

Furthermore, we employ the use of a single blade scalpel when removing the donor strip. What does this mean? It means that the least amount of grafts possible will be transected during the donor strip removal process. To some readers this may seem to be a no-brainer but there are some doctors that use double-blade scalpels (from what I hear, still, to this day), which increases the amount of transection and reducing the amount of grafts that can be taken successfully. Ask any of the doctors you interview how long it takes for the strip removal process alone and if they use a single blade scalpel. We take between one and two hours.

 

To get the larger numbers one also needs a larger staff. We currently have the largest staff per doctor of any clinic I know of. Both Dr. Hasson and Dr. Wong have at least eleven or twelve technicians EACH as each doctor has their own respective teams to work on your procedure.

 

Truth be told, all the clinics in the Coalition can (or SHOULD) be able to pull 3000 grafts in a single session. Today's patients and the better standards set forth by this and other forums demand it.

[spineguy1]

Paddyboy,

I went to Hasson & Wong 4 years ago and had a 4100 graft procedure. There were no "abnormal" splitting of grafts or whatever Dr. Kiely was referring to. My results are wonderful and I'm completely happy with the results that I've achieved. Their clinic is 3000 miles from my home and I can tell you that it was well worth traveling to get the experience and quality from one of the worlds Top HT surgeons. Goodluck and keep us up to date on your journey.

[munster1]

Conor Kiely is an absolute disgrace. Unfortunately I've had the misfortune of having a number of hair transplants by this guy. The results have been terrible and I've ended up with appalling scarring at the back of my head. This guy really needs to be stopped as he has caused terrible mutilations to numerous vulnerable people concerned with hair loss. He has gotten away with it because people are slow to write to the Irish Medical Council outlining their concerns about this guy. I've written to them and I would ask anyone who has had a terrible experience with this pathetic excuse for a doctor to write into the medical organisations before he does more damage to people. Also I would suggest you seek a refund off him for any unsatisfactory work carried out, he will do anything to prevent the medical organisations from discovering what he has being doing to his unfortunate patients for the last decade. How this guy is still in business I don't know. Unfortunately like many others I fell for his spin and went back to him each time as he said he would rectify the damage, what a terrible mistake that was! When I approached him after the last transplant and how unhappy I was with the results of all his handy work and with the horrific scaring, he treatened me. I proceeded to write to him requesting all my money back so I could go to a professional to try and recify at least some of th damage he caused, I cc'd the Irish Medical Council with photo evidence of his work. He quicky refunded the fees he took off me after initially treatening me. Anyway, do plenty of research before choosing a professional, these forums are excellent. Unfortunately I only recently discovered it. Please please write to the Irish Medical Council if you've experienced the disgraceful work of Conor Kiely as he will continue to destroy lives if left to continue practicing hairtransplants. The lies and spin on his website is astonishing!