Norton clinic

[s.a.f]

Hi, I am a UK poster and transplant patient, usually I post on another forum but I felt compelled to make you all aware of something that has happened recently.

As you are probably aware the UK clinics have a pretty poor reputation when it comes to hair restoration surgery. Unfortunately I can vouch for the fact that this reputation is well deserved, as a repair patient myself I have been victim to a couple of them. For this reason I posted an account of my experience on the other forum to help prevent others from making the same mistakes that I did. Actually I consider it my duty as a hairloss sufferer to do this.

Soon after posting I discovered that I was not the only person to have this idea, in fact I discovered that there are quite a few other posters out there with the same experiences as me and some of them are members of this site also.

 

Getting to the point, the reason I'm posting on here is because of a place in the UK known as the Norton clinic. I had surgery there and ended up with a very bad result as you can see from my pictures below. Bad scarring in the donor area hardly any growth and a very unnatural appearance, also I received nowhere near the amount of grafts that I had been quoted. The entire experience was traumatic both physically and mentally.

 

Several other forum members have also posted their experiences with Norton, All of them bad, one patient was left with nerve damage and all were badly scarred and had barely any growth, which is the general outcome from this clinic Several complained but none received any compensation or even an apology. In fact I've yet to hear a single example of someone who got a good result from them. They are the UK equivalent of Bosley! I understand that there is a web site - Bosleyviolations.com, perhaps there should be a Norton one.

 

Anyway the SALESMAN for NORTON - (Jeremy Isherwood) posted a response on the thread asking for posters to contact him directly and stated that he was unaware of any complaints. Very shortly afterwards the thread was locked due to the inevitable mayhem it would have created as numerous posters are well aware of this clinic and its disastrous reputation. Unfortunately then a thread that had been running for months with dozens of responses was deleted completely, which in my personal opinion is a terrible shame as now other uneducated HT readers could make an uninformed choice and go there not knowing about the experiences of previous patients.

 

 

As members of hairloss forums do we not have the right to try and expose these bad surgeons/clinics who are ripping people off and leaving them looking disfigured and feeling traumatised.

 

After all it is only our experienced opinion? Are we only supposed to comment on surgery when it goes well and not when we get butchered? Do these clinics have the right to get away with this without consequence???

 

The whole purpose of these forums is to share information to help each others whether that is information about drugs/treatment available or discussing who is the best HT surgeon to use.

I would be interested to hear your views especially if you have been unfortunate to experience surgery at the Norton clinic. It will also be interesting to see if Jeremy Isherwood has the audacity to post a response on a forum as well established as this one.

 

Links to other victims i have found on here:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...49&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...79&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=38075

 

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...04&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...59&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?cati...74&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

 

 

I know of several guys on the various forums who have posted their experiences and I hope that more will come forward.

 

[Guest Cousin_It]

S.A.F

 

First of all let me welcome you to this forum.

 

I am sure there are many members that can sympathize with your plight. The horendous experience of a ill performed transplant can be quite traumatic. I commend you on bringing this information forward to enlighten members of the pitfalls associated with this clinic.

 

This forum, thorogh its members and publisher, strive to educate the less informed in hopes that travesties such as yours do not occur by educating the public in the proper investigation of prospective surgeons. We welcome comments from members of thier experiences with surgeons in hopes that those considering a transplant are properly informed firsthand by a patient's actual results.

 

The hair loss industry is ridden by unscrupulous individuals that prey on the emotional state of those seeking help in thier hair loss. Advertisements that border on fraud bombard those seeking solutions to thier plight. It is a financially lucrative business that takes advantage of the uninformed by offering "snake oil" and unproven therapies as a cure. The most abomidable of those are the surgeons with limited or no experience that "fast talk" patients into committing thousands of dollars with the vision that a full head of hair is only a surgery away.

 

Patients such as yourself must speak out and offer factual information concerning your experiences with these less than desirable surgeons/clinics in hopes that prospective patients view your comments and are deterred from doing business with these individuals.

 

Again I commend you on speaking out about your experience and hope that this forum in some way assists you in correcting this so you can get on with your life.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

S.A.F.

 

I would also like to welcome you to our forum community. We are open to all patient experiences and posts that are genuine - the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

Holding clinics and physicians accountable for their work is one of the most important aspects of this forum.

 

Thus when a potential patient considering the "Norton" clinic or Dr. Norton uses the "Find" search feature on this forum they will find your post and any other referencing "Norton". There has not been too much posted on this forum to date about Norton. But one poster "Garageland" did make an extensive post about his less than satisfactory experience with Dr. Norton.

 

I can see why you are disappointed with your results. But assuming you have adequate donor supply a competent physician performing ultra refined follicular unit grafting could greatly improve upon your current work. In fact your current grafts, once blended with follicular unit grafts, will provide fullness to your ultimate outcome.

 

I think you can take encouragement from Garageland's story as it has a happy ending after his hair was successfully restored recently (about 6 months ago) by Hasson and Wong in Vancouver. To see his well documented weblog, click here.

 

I commend you for coming forward to hold this clinic accountable in an effort to help others.

 

Best wishes for achieving the look you want and deserve.

 

Pat

 

P.S. I think you will also find encouragement in viewing Joe Tilman's excellent Weblog. He had sparse grafts before Dr. Wong rescued his scalp and it turned out great. Another happy ending to a grafty beginning.

[Martin]

I totally agree with you s.a.f and i am so sorry that you had to encounter this. I wish you all the best with your recent repair session. What are you now 6 months post op?

 

S.A.F's detailed account from another forum.

 

 

My journey ??“ surgery History (First 2 Surgeries with the "Norton Clinc" ??“ 3rd surgery with "Nobel Clinic")

 

About 4 years ago Propecia began to gain some publicity in the press. There were reports of men who claimed to have regrown their hair. At first I thought it sounded to good to be true. But when I looked into it I found that there was scientific evidence to show that it could lower levels of DHT. I decided it was worth trying, and searched the Internet to find a pharmacy that would supply it by mail order. It was not cheap, ??150 for a 3-month supply! I started taking it straight away and sat back and waited for my hair to grow. After 7 months I couldn't see any results, I thought about the cost over sticking with it over the rest of my life and gave up. (More money down the drain).

After that I suppose I just had to accept that my hair was gone and I was destined to spend the rest of my life looking like an old man.

A year or so passed and then one day completely out of the blue I just decided that I'd had enough of living like this and was going to do something about it once and for all. I had always considered hair transplantation as too extreme and wondered if it even actually worked, given that everything else I had tried had failed miserably.

I realised that I might live to regret it but I would definitely regret never trying it. I saw an ad in the back of a newspaper and checked out their website. I'd seen this company nearly 10 years before when I first began to lose my hair so I knew that they were well established, and the photo's on their website looked pretty good to me (back then).

This was more than enough to convince me to contact them. So one evening in 2004 I travelled to a hotel in Birmingham for a consultation.

I was met by a man in a flash suit who reminded me of an insurance salesman. He sat me down and took my details, name, address ect. The first thing he did was try to sell me Propecia but I told him I'd already tried it. (This clinic makes most of its money by selling mail order drugs Propecia, viagra, ect and various other hair products). In small talk he asked me what I did for a living, then said he'd just go and check if the boss was ready to see me. Five minutes later he ushered me into a room where I met the ??main man'. The first thing I noticed was that the guy didn't have much hair himself. (About a 3 or 4 on the norwood scale). Hardly a good advert for his company.

He looked at my head for about 5 seconds then asked me what I knew about the transplant procedure. I explained that I had researched it and he gave me a brief explanation of what would be done. He showed me a before, post op and after picture of someone who had about 400 grafts put into their receding temples. He looked at my head and said I would need about 1500 grafts to fill in the front part of my head and then 2nd procedure of 1500 to fill the crown. (By now I was about a norwood 5/6 He promised me that that by the summer my hair would be looking "pretty good". He finished off by asking me straight "so would you like it done then"? I wasn't completely sure but I agreed. The salesman took me back downstairs and a date was booked for surgery and I gave them a cheque for the deposit. 4 weeks later I travelled up north to have my first op.

The clinic turned out to be a back room in a local GP surgery. This didn,t fit their image of the UK's most established clinic.

I met the surgeon who advised me to take an alternative to Propecia called Avodart (dutesteride), which they could supply, by mail order. He had a quick look at my head, checked my blood pressure and drew on my new hairline.

20 minutes later I was having it done. The whole thing took about 5 hours and was only slightly painful. When it was over I looked at his work in the mirror. Instead of the front half of my head being covered it was just about ?? of an inch. Just enough for a thin fringe. (I've since learned that this was probably just a few hundred grafts). But not having any previous experience I trusted that it would look alright when it was grown out. (at this stage I didn't know any better). The donor scar at the back was about 5mm thick and about 13cm long it was really sore the next day and I had to grow my hair for weeks to try to disguise it. The scabs on my new fringe took about 10 days to fade. As I left to go home the ??main man' showed up in his brand new Ferrari. (Business was obviously good).

I started taking Avodart as I'd been advised; it was even more expensive than Propecia. After about 3 months my new hair started to sprout. Although I'd been promised that the front half of my head would be covered there was only enough grafts to achieve a thin fringe.

Was I disappointed? ??Hell no!' After years of watching my hair disappear, suddenly I had new hair growing on my head. It felt fantastic! I couldn't wait to go back for more. So 5 ?? months later I returned for a second procedure (the one that was supposed to complete my hair).

This next op also for 1500 graphs (supposedly) was placed behind the first lot of graphs. Both ops seemed to go about the same except now I had another new scar, but for some reason the 2nd op just did not work.

The hair didn't grow like it did the 1st time. The work was guaranteed but proving what was there before could prove difficult and (photo's can be accidentally lost and the only compensation is another free op).

I wasn't put off transplants but decided to find a new clinic. As you may know there's not a great choice in the UK. So I looked at adverts in magazines, searched on the web and found another clinic closer to where I live. Like before I knew that this clinic was well established so I sent off for their brochure.

It seemed pretty good so I booked a surgery date for 2000 grafts. (This clinic was cheaper and they didn't try to sell me anything else).

The new grafts were put in the middle of my scalp and the finished results were pretty much what I'd come to expect. A small patch of fine hair with a very thin density.

I don't believe that all UK clinics are just out to rip people off. I have to say that the people who actually performed my ops seemed genuinely compassionate about my situation. But for all their goodwill I believe they just don't have the same abilities as some of the surgeons in the U.S.

So the situation was after 3 ops I had not much to show for it all, just a very small amount of very thin density hair that didn't exactly look natural. I found that by combing my hair in from the sides and using lots of cosmetic thickeners (this was a pain in the arse) I could achieve a barely acceptable look. But I was always very self-conscious of how my hair looked. I learned to avoid standing under bright lights as this made me look ??pretty much bald'.

I was in a real situation here, I'd started something and I needed to finish it once and for all. It was then that I had a small stroke of good luck.

I started to visit hairloss forums on the Internet and read about the experiences of other dissatisfied UK patients. They all seemed to say one thing if you want it done properly you have to go to America.

Then I heard about Spex, his name kept popping up on the forums. Here was a guy offering help and advice to anyone concerned about their hair. Like many I was suspicious at first but after seeing so many positive things written about him on the web I decided to give him a call. He suggested we meet up but because of the distance between us I couldn't commit to anything. A week later he called me and said he was planning to come to a city nearer to me and asked if I wanted to meet him there. So that Sunday afternoon I found myself travelling to a hotel.

As I stood at the bar waiting (I was the guy wearing a baseball cap inside as usual) I felt a bit apprehensive about meeting a complete stranger in a hotel what were his motives? Why would anyone go out of their way to help a stranger?

As soon as I met Spex I realised that he was no salesman. I couldn't get over how good his hair looked. You would never know he'd ever had a problem. He began to tell me his story and I found that I could relate to everything he said. This was the first time I'd ever been able to openly discuss losing my hair. Before I knew it we'd been talking for about 1 ?? hours.

Spex suggested that I start taking finesteride because it had worked wonders for him by stopping his hairloss in its tracks and therefore preventing the need for a lot more surgery.

He was able to put me in touch with a Dr who could presrcibe me Proscar at the cost of just over ??8 a month, compared to the ??50+ a month that I'd been paying for mail order for Propecia/Avodart.

He showed me some examples of Dr Fellers work and we both agreed that a decent transplant was what I needed to sort out what had been started. So he asked me if I would like him to take a few photo's to send to Dr feller for his opinion. Obviously Spex has a good correspondence with Dr Feller and this makes the process of sorting out a transplant a lot easier, but he did not put any pressure on me to have surgery. He even mentioned some other top world-renowned surgeons in the U.S.

And so I decided to book myself in for what I figure is my ??last role of the dice' since I guess that 4ops is about the limit that anyone can have (strip surgery). The results of this will be make or break for my hair.

Spex was able to help me prepare for my trip giving me plenty of advice about the best ways to organise and plan things. He was also always available for me to phone if I had any questions or concerns.

 

 

My surgery with "Feller medical" - Dr Feller - 2900 GRAFTS

 

So just 8 weeks later I travelled to New York for my surgery with Dr Feller. I wont try to pretend that this wasn't a big deal for me. I'd never travelled this far on my own before so it was a bit daunting.

On the morning of surgery getting to Northern Boulevard on the subway is easy but it's a very long stretch of road so you will need to get a taxi in order to help you find the place.

The first person you will meet when you get there is Dr Feller. He will give you a full consultation to check things like the elasticity of your skin and the density of your donor hair he will keep you informed of what he is doing as he goes along.

Then he discusses with you what you hope to achieve and exactly what you would like done. All this is different from what I was used to in the UK.

The Dr will give you his advice on what he thinks will give you the best results with the amount of grafts available and the extent of your hairloss. Remember he has built his good reputation on the finished results. So he will perform the surgery to make you look your best and not just the way that is easiest for him to do.

Also unlike the UK clinics he will try to get the job done in one go or in as few procedures as possible. Dr Feller has had a transplant himself so he knows exactly how you are feeling.

He pointed out straight away what the UK clinics had done wrong and why I ended up with almost nothing to show from my 3 previous transplants.

1). They failed to use the best donor hair that was available and took it from the wrong areas. This made closing the incision more complicated and left me with excessive scars.

2). They implanted the hairs at the wrong and therefore an unnatural looking angle.

3). The density used was only 10-12 hairs pcm2 as they tried to spread it over as big an area as possible but in doing so the hair was not dense enough to be seen. (Dr Feller aims for a density of 40-50 hairs pcm2).

4). My last UK clinic had used 1980's style minigrafts and planted the hairs in obvious looking rows each placed 5mm apart.

5). After 3 procedures in the UK, 2 for 1500 grafts and 1 for 2000 grafts. Dr Feller estimated that I had only about 800 grafts on my head! I.e.: I had not received anywhere near the amount of hair that they had charged me for.

After the consultation was over and Dr Feller marked the area that he was going to work on and we were ready to start.

The first thing he did was shave my head. I wasn't exactly thrilled about this as I hadn't encountered it in surgery before, but this is a standard procedure amongst the top surgeons as it is necessary to help them get the best results.

As far as the surgery itself went sitting in the chair I was unaware of any differences from my previous experiences. However 7 hours later when I saw the finished job I was in for a pleasant surprise. I could see that Dr Feller had managed to achieve almost full coverage from just behind the hairline to nearly all of the crown. (This was much more than I'd dared to hope for). Previously I was used to seeing only a small area (about the size of a matchbox) being covered. Also not only was the density much better but the individual grafts themselves were much neater with smaller scabs and less redness.

Although I have yet to see the finished results I feel that after nearly 2 years of continuously having surgery then immediately saving up for the next op, I am now in a position of not needing any further surgeries.

Dr Feller has done in 1 op what the UK clinics hadn't come close to achieving in 3. I can only say that in my opinion it is definatly worth the effort of going to the U.S for your transplant surgery. I only wish I had done it years ago.

In fact I would say if you have decided to have surgery either go to the U.S or don't bother getting it done at all. I'm not saying that all UK clinics are bad and all U.S clinics are great. There are plenty of dodgy doctors in the U.S as well but to my knowledge there are no surgeons in Europe who could perform a transplant to the same level as Dr Feller. It just seems that the worlds best surgeons happen to live in the U.S. and Dr Feller is just one of them, whatever you decide make sure that you do your research and don't just take their word for it. There is no better critic than a former patient.

 

Important advice for those considering a hair transplant

 

Having had 4 transplants myself at 3 different clinics and learning the hard and expensive way .I feel I must give my honest opinion with the following statements:

 

I cannot stress enough the importance of finding a good surgeon. Don't be tempted to respond to the first flashy advert that you see. Remember a bad surgeon can leave you with horrible scarring and as everyone has a limited supply of donor hair you must make sure that when it is used you actually get decent results. My advice is to look on the Internet forums to see which surgeons consistently get good reviews. These are your best tool in the search for the right person to perform your surgery.

 

Unfortunately I have to say that there appears to be no highly skilled surgeons in the UK. Believe me I have researched this thoroughly! I have seen their work from the very bad to the barely acceptable.

A good surgeon will offer a vast range of before and after photos (good clear quality, not blurry retouched ones). Many brochures just show models not real patients. They will even be able to put you in touch with previous patients. Forget confidentiality, people who are pleased with their surgeons work will be happy to recommend them. Many surgeons are barely qualified in hair surgery and just do it when not performing facelifts and nose jobs.

Make sure that your clinic and surgeon specialise only in hair transplantation and are members of the international society of hair restoration surgery (ISHRS) and the international alliance of hair restoration surgery (IAHRS).

Be realistic about the results. It is not possible to get back the same hair that you may of once had, especially if your hairloss is severe. But a top surgeon can make a little go a long way and occasionally on some patients with good characteristics for surgery you can see some truly amazing results.

Beware of salesmen. A reputable surgeon will do his own consultations, as it is important for him to see what he will be working with. The guy you meet should be the same person who eventually performs your surgery. Many of the worst clinics employ ??consultants' these are just salesmen who have no medical training and are just there to talk you into having surgery often promising unrealistic results.

Be suspicious of clinics that do not offer a set pricing policy. They will just ??size you up' as you walk through the door in order to decide how much they think that they can get out of you.

Many clinics claim to guarantee the results but they know that people are reluctant to kick up a big fuss over such a highly personal operation and their guarantees are usually just the offer of more free surgery. But why would you want to go back for another botched op? Many dodgy surgeons make their money and disappear after a few years once their reputation gets around.

Finally despite what the glossy brochures may tell you having a hair transplant is no picnic! Yes there is a little bit of pain involved, both during the op when you must have a series of injections and for a few days after when your head will be feeling a bit sore. Realistically you will need at least a week off work as you will have scabs where the grafts are implanted and swelling from the injections. The longer you can have off the better if you don't want people to know what you've just had done.

It is also expensive not because of greedy surgeons but just because of the high cost of any surgical procedure.

Think of the equipment used and the staff involved (possibly about 5 people per surgery). This is especially true for people with a higher degree of hairloss, Norwood 4+ as they may need several procedures.

I myself have spent more than the cost of a new car on surgery but this is mainly due to making the wrong choices. With what I know now I could have done it for less than half the cost. This is why it is important to plan things right and do your research. Everybody's situation is different. The advice you get from Spex will be a great help, as he will give you his opinion based on his wealth of knowledge.

Well if all that hasn't put you off then my advice is to ??go for it!' Because it has made a huge difference to many people in you position. I know that having surgery is scary enough but as long as you follow my advice and go with a highly recommended surgeon you will be fine.

 

Disclaimer

As you can see I have given you the full truth both good and bad about transplants I hope this proves that I am not a salesman and will not benefit in any way should you decide to go ahead with surgery.

 

best wishes

S.A.F

[s.a.f]

Thanks for the responses guys its nice to know that through forums such as this one we can all work together to help each other out and to try to ensure this sort of thing does'nt happen to too many people. Unfortunatly I found out about sites like this way too late (after surgery). The most frustrating thing is that these incompetant and substandard clinics continue to get away with doing this to the uneducated/ni'eve patients purely because they know that in most cases the person concerned will be too distressed/embarrassed to kick up a fuss and any attempt to do so will usualy prove fruitless in the end.

As for myself I have since had repair work done in the U.S that has helped my situation greatly. (But what other choice did I have?)

[nobuzz4me]

Martin,

 

Thanks for the detailed story and your happy ending with Dr. Feller, I am sure it has changed your life.

 

SAF,

 

You are probably going to have a very successful repair if you go to the right surgeon here in the U.S. I believe the very best in the world are here, (I would include H&W in Canada). There are also some bad ones here as well, do your research.

 

Since you found this site, do your research and you will come out fine. It is to bad the internet was not around twenty years ago. Word of mouth thru this medium would have probably put those guys out of business before they had a chance to butcher so many people.

[Garageland]

Hi guys, good post Saf, Martin and Saf have both been to see Dr Feller, Saf is now about 6 months out and i think Martin is 5 months.

I can only agree with what saf has said about the Norton clinic just look at my pics to see the kind of work they turn out.

Pat, i have just updated my 6 month pics in a photo album in the other section if you guys want to see how i am getting along.

[CHARLATAN]

The Norton Clinic or www.nortonclinic.com (Norton Clinic Limited) based in Wakefield has a Company Director Doctor Thomas Norton who founded the company in 1995. Dr Norton was Struck Off the General Medical Council Medical Register in 2001 for Gross Professional Misconduct relating to 3 separate Cosmetic Surgery Procedures he performed at the Transform Clinic that were proven to be disastrous. Doctor Norton himself is therefore unable to perform any surgical procedure. Dr Norton also has previously served a 6 month jail term for Grievous Bodily Harm in which he smashed a glass into another mans face. Dr Norton, whilst he was a GP had also previously been found guilty of using dead patient's details to obtain morphine, to feed an addiction that he suffered from. Anyone considering using a Clinic for Hair Transplants in the UK should ensure they are registered with the Health Care Commission (http://www.healthcarecommission.org.uk) The Norton Clinic Limited are not registered and as such are potentially breaching the Care Standards Act 2000. Anyone who has used the Norton Clinic is encouraged to report malpractice to the GMC at website http://www.gmc-uk.org HealthCareCommision at website http://www.healthcarecommission.org.uk and post details on this board for further advice.

[STOPNORTON]

Have you suffered at the hands of Doctor Thomas Norton or others at the Norton Clinic? If you have take action now please contact the team at STOPNORTON@YAHOO.CO.UK (confidence strictly assured at all times)

[johnno]

yes, Norton. I had surgery on 20th December 2006 and the infamous sales person claimed the surgeon would transplant about 2000 grafts around 4000 hairs ? The saleperson had a quiet word with the surgeon before the HT and after taking ??2500 off me. I don't know how the hell they managed to transplant that many grafts in 3 hours ? There were 3 members of staff dissecting hairs and 2 members including surgeon transplanting hairs ! It seems to me as they if they are still up to their old tricks. Take a look at my pic and guesstimate on how many grafts were tranplanted 'cause i reckon between 1000 and 1500. Please give ur comments on my graft count as it would help me greatly !! I forgot to mention, it is nearly 5 weeks since i had the surgery and i still got scabs on my recipient area !!

many thanks to all

johnno

[Gorpy]

Hi Johnno,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I would estimate that you covered about 90 cm2 at about 10 grafts per cm2. That would give you a total of around 900 grafts.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Johnno,

 

What have you been doing about the scabs on your head? Having scabs at 5 weeks is not normal. I recognize that you may not have received FUT, but mini/micro grafts instead...but make sure you are working off the scabs with your finger tips in the shower and all. 5 weeks? That's not good. By the way...that last picture you posted...how recent is that?

 

Gorpy,

 

No offense intended, but I have no idea how you could possibly surmise a number of grafts from looking at THAT picture. Firstly, the picture is very unclear. Secondly, the scabs you are seeing could have blended into one another, meaning there could be multiple grafts under the scabs. Either you are super human or it's a total guess

 

Bill

[Gorpy]

Hey Bill, no offense taken. I have to assume that the visible spots are the grafts themselves. If that is not the case, then you are right, it is impossible to tell. If indeed the very visible spots are the grafts that were implanted and there are no more hidden grafts, then I think my estimate is fairly close. A little blurriness doesn't matter when the grafts are so big

 

Johnno placed the picture there and asked for us to count the grafts. Isn't it reasonable to assume that the picture shows all the grafts?

[johnno]

Bill,

I did have mini/micrografts. I wash my hair everyday and put it under the shower then gently massage the scabs!! I was also told by the clinic to spray the recipient area with boiling water that has cooled to dissolve the scabs. I sprayed the area at least 4 times a day for a duration of 4 weeks that has now turned into once a day!!Why is it so bad for the scabs to be around after 5 weeks? There are a very small amount of brown scabs in the recipient area of which some are attached to hairs and only a minimal amount attached to the scalp. Most of the scabs are white and attached to the hairs. Some of the hairs that fall with the white scabs have bulbs whilst others don't. Is this normal ?

The photo posted on here is about 2 weeks post op!!

 

Cheers Gorpy,

I won't go to those incompetent arse's again. I just hope they only took 1000 grafts and not 2000 from the donor area of which 1000 may of been binned ? Your guess on my graft count sounds plausible when taking the following into consideration: 3 hour HT process, a 15cm donor scar and shite coverage. I made a lucky escape there, i found out just in time thanks to this forum and its members. It is just a good job i got an adequate amount of donor hair left, which should see me through 2 hair transplants that will be undertaken by a top class HT doctor!! The HT I had wasn't botched, the scar is linear and the hairs are nicely placed. I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out and keep in touch with this forum and acquire some advice along the way!! I reckon the c.... ripped me off!!

[nobuzz4me]

Johnno,

 

If you could submit a recent, clearer photo, that would be helpful. Bill is right, those scabs should have come off by now. If they are still there do not rip them of but take long fairly hot showers keeping the water running over them. Gentle rubbing with your fingertips will help remove them. Either you are way too careful with those scabs or are a extremley slow healer. I had larger plugs in the 1980's, and the scabs all came off within 14 days. Even if you did nothing to help, those things should have flaked off on their own by now.

 

I think Gorpy's estimate is close as to the number, you got over-charged on the number of grafts you paid for. That sucks and those guys should be reported and put out of business for still doing plugs .

[Bill - Seemiller]

Gorpy,

 

If each scab represents a graft, then you are probably right. Picture is still small and blurry to me, so harder to tell from my POV, BUT, I've never been good to estimate a number based on a picture. did you ever have a contest in elementary school where you had to guess the number of M&Ms in a large jar? yeah, i was never good at that either . Glad you weren't offended. Perhaps you are right...and if that's the case, that's terrible for Johnno.

 

Johnno,

 

It's simply not normal to have scabs at 5 weeks. At 5 weeks, the majority of people have shed most to all of their transplanted hairs by then, and you still have scabs...see what I mean? However, when the scabs do come off, it's definitely possible for the hair (with or without a bulb) to come with it...as long as you don't see blood when the hair sheds, you should be fine

 

At this point, all you can do is really wait to see what happens. recent pictures of your scalp would be helpful.

 

Bill

[Gorpy]

did you ever have a contest in elementary school where you had to guess the number of M&Ms in a large jar?

 

Yeah, I won that contest

[Bill - Seemiller]

LOL Gorpy...then I'll take your word on it for the 900 grafts

 

Bill

[johnno]

i don't mind being ripped off, i just put it down to experience. I am just glad that i found out in time, the job wasn't botched and i didn't waste too much donor hair, now that would of peeved me off!! At least i will be in safe hands when my next HT is undertaken, all thanks to this forum and its members!!

[nobuzz4me]

Johnno,

 

I am glad you found this forum as well, all current members are glad to have found this site I can assure you.

 

Thankfully, as you say, you have donor available. Many a botched HT victim got screwed for life.

 

The nice thing about your minigrafts is they appear to have set your hairline high enough so that your next surgeon can rebuild a natural hairline in front of what you have. You will also get some density with those current grafts and with the latest techniques, a good surgeon will fill in between those and they should camoflage real well.

 

The key for you is your donor and finding the best surgeon. Do you have a surgeon in mind?

Good luck my friend,

[johnno]

thanks no buzz, very reasurring post that knowing my HT can be improved and a new hairline formed!!

Thanks mate, that has really cheered me up, you sure know your stuff!!

I have a few surgeons in mind:

Dr Feller, Dr Hasson and Dr Wong!!

You got any preferences?

I will wait a year until i get another HT though!

People shouldn't feel sorry for me, as i can go on for further surgery and as you have pointed out my HT ain't that bad and can be improved upon vastly with a good surgeon!!

Actually some of what you just posted was going through my mind;

I feel sorry for others who have been botched beyond repair, lost all of their donor hair and got nothing to show for it but an empty bank account!! I also feel sorry for those i saw coming out of the Norton Clinic with a big smile on their face who are oblivious to the incompetence of the clinic. Their lack of knowledge means they get ripped off each and every time they return to the Norton Clinic, maybe disfigured and lose valuable donor hair. How the hell Norton have performed 10,000 HT and still manage to run an incompetent HT surgery beats me!! Yes, my hairline is quite high. It was placed by the Norton Clinic on my first HT consisting of 500 grafts 6 years ago, i had another 950 grafts transplanted on 20 dec 06 as seen in the picture posted of which i was told 2000 would be transplanted!!

[Bill - Seemiller]

johnno,

 

You have a good and clear perspective on things now...I'm glad you have learned your lesson and are moving forward with what to do to correct your situation when the time comes. I'm also glad that you are being patient and waiting a year to let the results of your surgery come in before you make a move on your next surgery. Dr. Hasson, Dr. Wong, and Dr. Feller are all excellent surgeons and you'd be pleased with the results no matter which one you go to.

 

Bill

[nobuzz4me]

Yes, any of those three surgeons are world class and can do the job. Since you will need specific attention to hairline work, check the patient photo album of some of their patients with hairline in mind. I personally like H&W hairline work, but am only basing this on the photos I have seen.

 

I think you are wise to wait a year to let your donor heal and see how your previous work grows out. Meantime do your research.

 

Good luck,

[johnno]

I am waiting a year as Bill gave me some good advice a while back and told me it is best to wait a 12 month before having another HT.

Thanks matey.

To be honest I have been looking at the work performed by all three surgeons mentioned, and the hairlines of Dr Hasson and Dr Wong appeal most!!

Don't get me wrong Dr Feller is good but i have a personal preference with Dr Hasson and Dr Wong!!

I am washing my recipient area properly now and gently massaging those scabs, which are now falling out at an alarming rate all attached to hairs. There is no blood at all when washing the area but i am left with lots of white scabs, a few brown ones and redness in the recipient area.

Are all of these normal ?

If so, i must of been too cautious when washing my hair, as i used to wash the sides and back of my head and just place shampoo on the recipient area and then rinse off!!

The donor area was clear within 3 weeks, scabs and all!!

[studentjay]

I think that is a good idea, wait until your transplant has grown in. I believe you choice of H&W is the best.