UK BALDYS....

[Al - Moderator]

richie,

I wasn't trying to get on you. I feel bad for you because you sort of got dragged into this. I wasn't really blaming anyone in particular, just pointing out how out of proportion the whole thing was getting. I guess it's really notgoing's fault for starting the whole thread about US vs UK price differences. Surely he must have known this would happen. LOL. kidding, of course.

[Al - Moderator]

Originally posted by Bill - Moderator:

In my opinion, the ONLY discussion that would even be worthwhile to continue would be:

 

1. to generally discuss the benefits, limitations, and risks about performing a 500 graft strip surgery (as opposed to a larger session) and the specific cases where it may or may not be appropriate.

 

2. The benefits, risks, and limitations of performing small hair transplant sessions in a diffuse thinning crown.

 

Well to that I'd have to say I WISH I could have 500 grafts placed in strategic areas of my head. After having 25 HT surgeries with a total of 1392 grafts, 5 scalp reductions, 182 cored out areas between the grafts.... well... 500 grafts in one session sounds like a miracle.

[balody]

behappy,im not familiar with your ht journey care to enlighten?

[chucky]

Originally posted by balody:

behappy,at last some sense spoken.the reason this thread has gone on this long is obvious,agendas.

frog,go if your going or stay put,but at least bring something to the table.(try shln or chuckys site)

 

Fistly Balody i have no desire to speak to you as you are foul mouthed and obviously have agendas but with you mentioning chuckys forum and shln you are forcing me to address you.

There is no chuckys forum,i presume you are waffling on about PBs forum where i post as bigmac(no secret there)and PB has allowed myself to moderate in the ht section.

Can i ask you what this forum has got to do with this post,no one there is posting anything about your Farjo clinic so why mention it.

 

I remember you saying PBs forum was a failure and the other forums for hairloss are rubbish,that this is the best forum and you dont read the rest as they are rubbish.Now you apparently do read them contradicting your earlier statements.

 

You have given Frog nothing but a hard time on here !!quote you`re like a dog with a bone let it go!!.He only wanted answers to simple questions.

I noticed you never told Bill to leave it alone when he said Mick should answer these questions

 

Finally i have no agenda on here,i have an opinion which i will say it as i see it as this is a public forum for questions to be asked.

 

No one has offered to answer my earlier question of have any other coalition doctors performed a strip ht for around 500 grafts into a large balding area where 500 grafts would have minimal impact.I have searched on here and cant find a single case.

 

I will await Micks response to Richie as he now has the go ahead and then maybe this will be answered.

 

 

 

You have tried to turn this thread into a battleground by mentioning names of drs and people who haven`t posted on this post.

[balody]

chucky,how am i a foul mouthed,violent,bully,intimidating,thug?all these things ive been called by you,frog,pb,spex,as well as a benefit cheat.you act like a bunch of primary school kids,well im sorry i scared you all,ill try and tone down my inner monster in the future.fyi i said in a post a few weeks back i frequent all the forums even pbhair,but this is the only one i choose to post on.the reason i directed frog to them is that a good percentage of guys on there are wronged uk patients who would rather cut their wrists than post on htn.frog by his own admission now fits into that categorie.

but while were on the subject what is your story?you had 3 bad hts and were going to try and spare the time as you were so busy to get a repair with feller.this was months if not years ago, in fact the last year you managed to clock up nearly 400 posts on here alone aswell as posting on all the other forums and becoming an associate publisher on pbs.you forget ive been unemployed for 3 months and on this wretched pc every day and you are on here as well as the others all the time,how are you too busy to fit your repair in?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Chucky and Balody, please stop the personal mudslinging.

 

You are both good people and I don't believe either of you have an agenda.

 

Chucky, you are co-moderating a forum now? Which forum and since when? Please provide a link so I may take a look at it. Depending on it's content, I may ask you to disclose this information in your signature on this forum.

 

Bill

[chucky]

Originally posted by balody:

chucky,how am i a foul mouthed,violent,bully,intimidating,thug?all these things ive been called by you,frog,pb,spex,as well as a benefit cheat.

 

Firstly you are foul mouthed,have a look at your posts.One which comes to mind is a post last year by two respected members on here having an argument re another poster.YOU had the last post saying something like this as far as i remember""look what you have Fu**ing caused,now FU**ck off.

RE FROG you have consistently badgered him to the point he feels threatened by YOU ,no one else just YOU.

As for Spex i recall you were the one who started the mudslinging with him.

As for PB i am not aware of all the facts so cant comment .

 

 

 

you act like a bunch of primary school kids,well im sorry i scared you all,ill try and tone down my inner monster in the future.fyi i said in a post a few weeks back i frequent all the forums even pbhair,but this is the only one i choose to post on.

 

 

I dont feel i act in any way like a school kid.I post aaking and giving advice and may raise issues which concern me.I dont no where you get the impression you scareme,you have upset FROG,a genuine poster looking for help and advice.You now say you frequent quite a few forums,why dont you post on them and share your photos and experience with Dr Farjo as you feel i and others have an agenda.You are very welcome to post on PBs hair forum.Having read it you will have seen its not affilliated to any doctor,products or sponsors and is open for any doctor or member of public to post.

You refer to STOPHAIRLOSSNOW as well which you have chosen to edit out for reasons known to yourself,again why do you or any other patient of Dr Farjo not post on there and share their experience.Is this because for reasons not known to me any reference to Dr Farjo is not allowed.

 

which is not truethe reason i directed frog to them is that a good percentage of guys on there are wronged uk patients who would rather cut their wrists than post on htn.frog by his own admission now fits into that categorie.

 

 

Yes indeed a good percentage of guys on SHLN and PBs forum have been wronged as you put it.Like yourself you only coose to post on HTN for reasons unknown to me,maybe you could enlighten me as to why you dont post on other forums and i will ask members of the other forums why they dont want to post on here.Cant say fairer than that.FROG by his own admission feels he would rather cut his own wrists than post on HTN,what a silly chidish statement to make.

 

 

but while were on the subject what is your story?you had 3 bad hts and were going to try and spare the time as you were so busy to get a repair with feller.this was months if not years ago, in fact the last year you managed to clock up nearly 400 posts on here alone aswell as posting on all the other forums and becoming an associate publisher on pbs.you forget ive been unemployed for 3 months and on this wretched pc every day and you are on here as well as the others all the time,how are you too busy to fit your repair in?

 

Why do you feel you have to deflect this post to my personal situation which has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Out of courtesy i will address these questions.

My story in brief,three very poor hair transplants as in my signature,pictures can be found on PBs site in ht section under bigmac photos.

Regarding sparing time for a ht and posting on the forums.

Firstly i worked for 15 years full time extra long hous which did not leave much time to post as my time i had i spent with my family.I left this job last year and went self employed so i could spend more time with my kids.Hence i can work at home and on site giving me time to post and spend time with my baby son.

As for getting my ht done.Yes its true i have chosen to fly thousands of miles to get my ht done rather than have it done in the UK which would be significantly more convenient.My girlfriend works and i look after my son when he is not in nursery,therefor i have many factors to consider when getting time for a ht,ie girlfriends time off work to look after baby,my time out from work.I also help out everyday with a family member who is severely disabled as well as an elderly mother so my time is precious and people depend on me.Is this enough personal information for you seeing you have taken a vested interest in me.

 

As for posting ,yeah i am a great poster and forum member imo and i hope other forum members appreciate my contributions.

 

Now if you will be so kind to answer my questions.

 

Why do you not post on other forums.

 

Have you an agenda against Spex as you always mention him.

 

You are unemployed and have plenty of time on your hands.Why dont you go to the London meeting of ht patients to show off your ht results and see results from other hairloss brothers.

Spex will be there and you can address any concerns you have with him personally.

 

Now my question to the forum members.Can anyone provide me with a link where a coalition doctor who have to meet high standards to be a member has done a strip procedure for approximately 500 grafts into an area where it would accomplish minimal if any cosmetic results as i would like to ask them why they did it.

 

I trust i have answered everthing you want to know.If you want to ask anymore questions i will reply as long as you`re civil and no foul language.

Thank you

[chucky]

Originally posted by Bill - Moderator:

Chucky and Balody, please stop the personal mudslinging.

 

Hi Bill i`m not the one mudslinging.

 

Quote

You are both good people and I don't believe either of you have an agenda.

 

I do not have any agenda.

 

Quote

Chucky, you are co-moderating a forum now? Which forum and since when? Please provide a link so I may take a look at it. Depending on it's content, I may ask you to disclose this information in your signature on this forum.

 

Bill

I dont see what me co- moderating a forum has anything to do with my posts on here.I do not post links or advertise it on here.The subject has only arisen through Balody mentioning it which i cant understand his intentions for doing so.

You like myself post on other forums and dont disclose any title in your signature which i personally dont feel the need to.

I will however give you the requested information you ask of me as theres nothing to hide.

 

A while ago i posted on a topic on PBs forum asking the members to get their fingers out and start posting to keep the forum active.

PB then gave me the title associate publisher which had no meaning as it was a title PB put in my signature ,nothing more nothing less.

As i became more active on his forum PB then gave me permission to moderate the hair transplant section only.

This was granted to me approximately two weeks ago.I guess PB gave me that privilidge as i was contributing to his forum quite a bit as you have done here.PB works full time and i guess he felt if he had a honest forum member to help him moderate as you are well aware you can easily miss a post that needs to be moderated.

This is why i feel he gave me certain privilidges,you could always join and ask him yourself if my explanation is not clear.

 

If you do need me to add this to my signature i will gladly do so as i never realised it was a requirement.

 

I trust this clears up any concerns you may have with me.

 

Thanks Bri

 

Bill

[balody]

chucky,

 

question 1.i like this site,it is freindly and has imo an unbiased view of ht surgery.take a look at hlh, farrel actually said he feels ready to throw in the towel and let it become a surgeons market place.shln was so pro feller you all run out of subjects to talk about on there.there is only so many different ways to say feller is great, uk is bad before it gets boring.pbhair could be quite good actually with the likes of janna etc contributing,but can you see old pubehead,balony,benefit cheat posting on pbhair?i dont think so.

 

question 2.do i have an agenda against spex?not at all.do ihave something against the cheerleaders of spex who are usually the first/only ones to critisise the farjos? hell yes.and lets not be under any illusions he has his band of merry men, you included.farrel got absolutely caned weeks back for suggesting that spex might be doing something to harm himself.the flack he got was astonishing at one point he said something like.. spex is not a god why do you treat him like one?

 

question 3.for one i think i would be lynched for two i dont feel i need to compare notes with other ht patients,ive seen the hi res photos,read the experiences and detailed mine extensively on here.

 

i, like you like to post but am finding it increasingly difficult to hold my tongue when my doctor is being constantly trashed and always by the same group of people.i am starting a new business venture in the coming weeks so this will be taking a back seat(hopefully).

[chucky]

Thanks for the reply.

Re question one.

You have also done your fair share of mudslinging.As to shln there are a lot of Dr Feller patients admittedly which is great but any doctors patients can post on there to my knowledge with the exception of Dr Farjo.Have you any idea why this is as you seem to be good friends with Mick and he may have told you why.

 

SMG as well as Dr Feller,Dr Lindsey and a European clinic HDC do indeed post on PB hair as it is a very open forum where any one can post their results.No fees,no cheerleading,no one being paid just a great forum where people offer advice freely and in my opinion honestly.

 

You dont have an agenda but it is you who mentions him when ever a topic like this arises.

I`m no cheerleader,Iadmittedly say Dr Fellers work is great,is there evidence to suggest otherwise.Why bring what happened on hlh into the equasion,that was a misinterpretation on behalf of a posters comments which was resolved.

Re question three

Why would you be lynched,most guys who have confirmed they are going are from various doctors,i think Spex will be the only feller patient there.There are going to be quite a few guys there looking into getting a ht and i thought this would be the ideal opportunity to show these guys they can get a world class ht in the UK by you showing your results.After all its only up the road from you and as you say be a part of the ht brotherhood.

 

Also i am not trashing Dr Farjo just asking why they were going to do a strip surgery for 500 grafts when this was totally inapropriate for the patient.I dont want to hear they wanted to wait,the fact is if this patient had said yes there and then he would have received a totally under estimated ht with little improvement to his situation.This question i will ask any doctor coalition or not.

 

I trust my personal details answered your curiosity.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Chucky,

 

I don't have a problem with you posting here whether or not you moderate a discussion forum.

 

But I feel it's extremely important for an "Associate Publisher" and Co-Moderator to be non-biased and keep an open mind. I trust you will be able to do this as you continue to post here.

 

At this time, please don't add anything into your signature.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Edit:

 

This thread was locked temporarily while the necessary permissions were given to Mick to continue to discuss this case.

 

Richie has informed me that he has given the necessary permission to Mick publicly and privately.

 

Because of this, I have reopened the thread in an attempt to RESOLVE the remaining issues. Keep in mind that Mick will not be back until next Wednesday.

 

Let's please try to keep this respectful and free from any agendas. Any obvious agendas to smear any names will result in a suspension of posting rights.

 

Bill

[WeAreCured]

I have to poo-poo.

[chucky]

Hi Bill

I thought i would be the first to let you know i no longer moderate on PBs forum as with previous comments being made about myself being a moderator on there it seemed as though i was being personally targeted and tarnished as a bad guy.

Therefor the help i offered PB freely to moderate and help was withdrawn by myself as i did not want his forum to be tarnished by my posts and questions here.PBs forum has nothing to do with what is discussed on here and should never have been brought up.

 

I trust there is no confusion now with my posts on here and that they are not classed as biased or agenda driven.

 

 

As for my earlier question regarding 500 graft strip surgery i would still like to know if any doctors would offer this considering the risks that can be associated with surgery,ie stretching,permanent shockloss,infection,laxity.

 

If any of the regulars on here would like to offer their opinions and i will await Micks reply on his return later in the week.

 

Thanks Bri

[thanatopsis_awry]

I can't think of a situation where a 500 graft strip procedure would make sense for a patient w/ any appreciable degree of hairloss, which isn't to say I'm not amenable to changing my mind; the combination, however, of such incredibly subtle (minimal) results, the "risks" that Chucky mentions above, and simply going through the op and walking the road of its lengthy recovery doesn't seem like it would ever be in a patient's best interest.

 

I have zero vested interest in proving or disproving Farjo or whomever, and while I don't know much about them, I would have to think that Farjo's admittance in the Coalition wasn't just random, so I think they should be given a certain respect and benefit of the doubt; which isn't tp say they shouldn't be questioned, or even intensely questioned, but I don't beleive they should be treated as if they were guilty before giving ample time and room to respond; which, it seems they are now getting.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Chucky,

 

Your decision to moderate another forum has no impact on us. Do what you please.

 

In my opinion, there is nothing inappropriate or unethical in doing a smaller hair transplant strip session of 500 grafts. I would however, not recommended it due to personal preference. In my opinion, I wouldn't want to go through the trauma of surgery and healing time for such a minor cosmetic difference.

 

The risks associated with strip surgery exist whether it's a smaller or larger session which include all of the specifics you have mentioned.

 

Recipient area shock loss is a greater risk with LARGER sessions when hair is being transplanted between existing natural hair (typical in diffuse thinners), not smaller ones. This is due to the additional scalp trauma. Permanent shock loss either occurs due to follicular transection or scalp trauma sending dying hair follicles to an early grave.

 

I have been in touch with Dr. Bessam Farjo and I expect an email reply from him shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[chucky]

Hi Bill

Thanks for your fairness and understanding with this matter.I enjoy posting on both forums to offer and receive advice and i never intended to cause friction.

I must of read your post wrong with regards to me moderating on PBs forum and i am pleased we have resolved the issue with no malice.

I will ask PB if i can moderate for him again.I know you and PB had your differences but i trust this does not reflect on my intentions on htn to hopefully offer good advice to people and to receive it.

Thanks Bri

[custard]

Bill

 

You have asked through your posts on PB's forum for me to account for the comments I made about you in relation to the UK baldy's thread. I consider it more appropriate to do that here than on PB's forum so that anyone can read the full thread and understand the context of this reply.

 

I agree that having expressed my opinion on the stance taken by you as associate publisher of HTN in relation to farjo's actions, it is appropriate that I explain to you my reasons for doing so.

 

Before I do however, please can I be clear that I made no comment whatsoever on the standard of ethical behaviour or clinical judgement of farjo in this case - IMO the facts speak for themselves.

 

Whilst accepting that it is the prerogative of a clinic to make whatever professional judgement it sees fit, the offer of a 500 graft strip session in this case leads me to question the confidence and capability of the clinic to deliver the kind of outstanding results achieved by other coalition surgeons? The opinion I expressed is evidenced by the fact that one of the world's leading HT surgeons elected to perform a 2100 graft surgery on this patient, having presumably taken into account the same relevant factors farjo did?

 

Same patient, same characteristics, markedly differing prognosis. One leading to significant cosmetic difference and a satisfied patient, the other (had it gone ahead) potentially resulting in a minor cosmetic difference and a patient left disillusioned with the results/HT industry and wondering what the hell to do next.

 

My issue and the basis of my post is that you appear to be saying one thing as associate publisher and something slightly different in a personal capacity, which in my opinion is untenable. My view? That this may be explained by the conflict of interest that inevitably exists where financial considerations are part of the equation. As I say, just my opinion.

 

I take your point that in selectively quoting you, I miss represented your personal view of the matter. That was unfair and for that I unreservedly apologise.

 

I'm also sorry that I have inadvertently caused tension between yourself, PB and B Spot. That was never my intention

 

Kind regards

 

custard (aka Beachboy)

[Bill - Seemiller]

Custard,

 

I can appreciate your point of view. But I don't think it's fair to conclude that because my opinion differs from yours that is must be because I am protecting a financial interest. This could not be farther from the truth.

 

The Hair Transplant Network has a long history and strong online reputation for recommending only those who meet our standards. Those who do NOT are promptly removed and have been regardless of the loss of their sponsorship.

 

Often too many hair loss sufferers make the mistake in thinking that hair transplantation is a black and white topic. Though you are correct that a single patient's variables remain constant, you seem to be forgetting on crucial variable (the surgeon's philosophy) which ultimately varies from surgeon to surgeon.

 

Many first-rate surgeons STILL argue over whether or not perpendicular (lateral/coronal) or paralel (sagital) slits promote the greatest hair transplant result. Other surgeons will argue whether or not "chubby" grafts verses "skinny" grafts are the most beneficial for the patient. Whether or not to transplant hair in the crown early has also been debated (as is in this case). Clearly you may develop, adapt to, or prefer a particular point of view, but it doesn't make the others incorrect or wrong.

 

What I have found is that overall, there is no one size fits all approach to hair transplant surgery (and rarely anything else).

 

Surgeons must not only continue to evolve their techniques but also adapt their unique individual philsophy to the patient's physiological needs and patient physical limitations.

 

Now don't get me wrong, CLEARLY their are outdated techniques and we the patients, being on the forefront of the patient revolution, should expose these outdated techniques and encourage patients to seek quality physicians producing state of the art results.

 

The fact is however, that the Farjo clinic have proven that they can and do perform larger densely packed sessions of over 2500 grafts when appropriate for the patient.

 

As an example, take a look at forum member fallenstar's hair loss weblog where he received a 3500 graft hair transplant session with Dr. Bessam Farjo. Additionally, Pat, our Publisher visited with and observed live surgery of the Farjo Clinic to ensure that they are performing state of the art hair transplantation. See highlights and pictures of Pat's visitation to the Farjo Clinic.

 

This to me is a key component of this ENTIRE debate:

 

It seems that you (and a few others) are confusing clinical ability with surgeon philosophy. Therefore, though you may not like a particular surgeon's philosophy (on a particular case), it's not fair to evaluate the ability of a hair transplant clinic based on a philosophical difference. This is ESPECIALLY true when there is supporting evidence of their high level of skill.

 

Mick on behalf of the Farjo clinic will be posting shortly in order to further clarify the particular conversation he had with Richie.

 

Stay tuned.

 

Bill

[stevo]

Im really sorry about bringing this topic up again but I have only just read through it all and I must admit it has gone a bit too far.

 

But I am sick of seeing Stop Hair Loss Now and PB hair being dragged through the mud these are two great sites for info on top HT's. Some people on here have reel issues with these sites, these people have never even posted there and don't even intend on posting there.

 

PLEASE IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH THESE SITES JUST DON'T LOG ON TO THEM IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

 

That said I am happy to go on all the forums including this to ask questions and also to help people out in any way I can.

 

Peace to all....

[balody]

hi stevo,

i assume its me your talking about

i have no problem in shln as a site aimed at uk hairloss sufferers,i think that is a great idea.but come on, it really did turn into a one dr show and i found some(not all)of the posters very blinkered in their views on anything other than this dr.also there seemed to be so much spiteful hysteria when ever anyting in the uk was mentioned on that site,this site,tv,newspapers etc.

pb and myself have had our differences but i really do like his site,it seems fair its not all one dr and is even pushing a european clinic for those who dont want the long haul to the u.s.i applaud him for this alone. all i have wanted is to give the uk a choice and let dr,s from uk/europe post their results without the constant sneering and putdowns.

cheers

btw like your recent pics, much like mine.we basically had the same norwood and the same sort of work over two sessions.

[stevo]

Hi mate.

I have done a lot of research Stop Hair Loss Now and would like to think that I have contributed to the forum also as well as the other sites. There is allsorts of good info on there and also a great deal of decent posters. I for one have never given a Dr a hard time or any Dr's patients a hard time neither.

 

I am definitely not starting another slanging match here mate. I just don't understand how people can slag these sites off when they have never even posted on them.

 

I actually live in Manchester and went for a consultation at Farjo and got told to get on Propecia by the consultant which I had never heard of but to this day I am still taking it. But when I started to do my research on the internet into HT's there was nothing to be seen about Farjo so obviously I didn't go with them.

 

I have read on here that Farjo are not allowed to post on Stop Hair loss Now don't know why???? But I don't think there is a reason why you shouldn't post your results on other forums including that one to show your results. What im trying to say is that by you posting your pictures on there and other sites alike will get other clinics noticed to people in the UK.

 

Cheers

[balody]

hi stevo,i know there are decent posters on there,usually like yourself they are the ones that post on here too.

farjo/farjo patients have never been banned from posting on shln,to the best of my knowledge the moderator(bill) stopped anyone posting "about" farjo i think because they were being unfairly bashed on a regular basis with no comeback.again i may be mistaken but thats the way i read things.

i did actually try and register on shln when the farjos were getting a pasting late last year under "balony"(pb,s pet name for me )but after logging in it wouldnt let me post,so never bothered since.to be quite honest i spend too much time on here let alone more forums,plus i just started working again so i wont be as active on here.

are you far from the farjos?you should pop in and say hi im sure they would love to see your work,they are a very friendly couple and mick and the staff are very accommadating.

[stevo]

Get on the other sites my man and spread the word to all the other brother's

[chucky]

Hi Balody

I have copied this post from SHLN and farjo patients are allowed to post.

QUOTE

We at SHLN reserve the right for a number of reasons to allow any information displayed here which involves the Farjo Clinic. We will allow Farjo patients to display their results if they so wish but any information displayed regarding them will either be deleted or locked if not provided by one of their own patients. SHLN is very tired of the friction surrounding certain topics/posters on the various forums and feels that it will be better for the community in general this way.

 

If the Farjo clinic wishes to contact me regarding this matter i am happy to discuss my reasons why directly with them.

 

stophairlossnow.moderator@googlemail.com

 

As you can see farjo patients are welcome.

I know you and i dont see eye to eye but we can be civil to one another for the good of all the forums.

There is a Rogers patient just updated on there.

Thanks Bri