Open letter to newer patients

[arfy]

I posted this in another thread, but then it seemed like maybe I was picking on someone in particular. So I thought I 'd post this as an "open letter" instead.

 

To the recent patients...

You had your first hair transplant only a few weeks or months ago. You still don't know what your exact results will be. I agree that Dr "X" is a top doctor in the field, and you made a good choice when you picked him.

 

But don't you think you should wait and see what your own results are, before you go around recommending him to everyone else in the world? I certainly think so. It can take a year for a transplant to really mature, and it can sometimes take several years (! yes, that's what I said) before you can really assess whether you made a good decision or not. Hair transplantation has a life-long impact, and sometimes guys have been happy with their results for the first few years, and UNhappy after that. It has happened!

 

Your experiences at the 'X" clinic (friendly staff, attentive doctor, etc,) are all STANDARD experiences, and won't really differ even at the lesser clinics like Bosley or MHR by the way. They are just as friendly at Bosley as well as anywhere else. And if you stick around, you will see that I also tell this same message to everybody who posts immediately after surgery, telling everybody what a great experience they had:

 

Please wait until your grafts are grown out, in order to decide if your transplant was a success or not. The first few months your grafts are dormant, and then after that, your hair only grows a half-inch per month. It can take a year or more for your grafts to fully mature. Enjoying your office visit is not as important in the long run. As I said, this holds true no matter who your doctor is. It takes time to decide how happy you are with your results.

 

Once in a while a guy will post here and he's very unhappy, because he just went to Bosley and he's just come home and read some messages on the internet about how Bosley is not the best place to go. I tell those guys the same thing, well first I say that they probably could have picked a better place (sure) but wait and see what your results are (and keep your fingers crossed). The fact is that NO clinic bats a thousand, and no clinic bats "zero". So it's too soon for you to recommend Dr. "X" to other people. I know you are excited and you have high hopes, but please give it some time. Again, this is true no matter who your surgeon is. Good luck with your results, everybody.

Thanks.

 

[This message was edited by arfy on December 02, 2002 at 11:04 AM.]

[Guest]

arfy -

 

Amen to that........

Nice post.

 

 

Midnite

[MarkV]

Arfy, you make a great point. I love this site and have learned a lot and believe that will help immensely in choosing a doc and formulating my HT game plan.

 

I am, however, disappointed in the number of posts received from those who are 1+ years out from their procedure date. I am even more disappointed by the number of "mature" patients who have posted photos of their mature results. Futzy, Jotronic, Wassup and AgentX are the only ones who come to mind.

 

Afterall, while I find the technical discussions regarding lateral slits, dense packing, etc. very interesting, the proof is in the pudding. SHOW ME THE PICS! More specifically, show me the MATURE pics.

 

I have often wondered why there are so few "mature" pics posted. Is it because once a former reader/contributor to this site gets hair, he loses interest? Is it because they are disappointed/ashamed of their results and don't want to be critiqued? Is it a privacy thing? Is it not having the necessary equipment?

 

I previously made a pledge to myself (and now to everyone) that if I go through with a HT procedure, I will post mature pics. I believe this is the proper and best way to thank and pay back guys like Jotronic and Futzy who posted pics and continue to selflessly help guys like me through the process. Its like carrying on the torch. I would encourage you fellow readers who have been helped by posts on this site to make the same pledge.

[hairhair]

Arfy, I agree completely, as a HT is a lifelong process, and you do state facts pertaining to doctors. BUT where I respectfully disagree with you is here...

 

If a HT is a lifelong process or has lifelong effects upon any person, it should be a better help that each person post their experience from the beginning even all the way through full maturity of their graft sites.

 

I would much rather, in my investigation of such an important procedure, know the FULL and ENTIRE experience. I want to know if someone felt completely comfortable or just somewhat comfortable during the procedure, and I do want to know why. I want to know the comments that are made during the procedure, after the procedure and during follow-up visits.

 

One of the greatest things I heard was when I went to the doctor (a different one in my hometown) to get the sutures removed and the doctor stated that it was an absolutely flawless suture job.

 

Yes, we're all excited that we had such a pleasurable experience, it adds to the excitement, you don't buy a car from a mundane or non-vocal salesman, do you? Nope, and in this case, when spending in upwards of $5000 - $12,000 and even more for some people, and with what's on the line here, I would hope that others want to hear it ALL as well, from beginning to end. Most claim to be distraught or feel like less of a man or woman because they are losing their hair, and that's a pretty important thing to gain back.

 

This site is a valuable resource, and it's because people cover the entire spectrum of their experience that it is such a valuable resource.

 

For me, I believe that I made the 100% correct decision based upon reading those facts, all of them, maybe someone else will not feel the same, but let those of us who feel this way, stay feeling this way and post as we see fit. And please, allow others who are new here, to posibly gain the same insights as we did.

 

Remember, results are always subjective, you may think mine are terrible while I may think that they are absolutely great, and so on... But the basic fact that remains is that not EVERYONE comes here with a pleasurable experience, and everyone experience is different, otherwise nobody would post.

 

I hope that makes sense, thanks for understanding. And everyone, good luck with your results, I'm still waiting upon mine, I am one month post-op, so I will keep people informed.

[arfy]

HairHair

Please read my post again. I do not say guys shouldn't post about their experiences on the day of surgery, just that it is typical of most clinics. That's not really the issue I am trying to address.

 

The main point I am trying to make, is that newly transplanted guys should hold off from actually recommending their doctor, until they have actually seen their grafts mature.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[hairhair]

hey Arfy...

 

I read the post, I know what you mean, but I think the excitement of new people posting and seing how they recommend their doctors is a good thing. That's just me though.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to step on toes here, know what I mean?

[arfy]

Hi HairHair

Everybody who gets their first transplant is excited. Yes, I do understand.

 

However as time goes by the excitement will wear off, and the reality will set in. Hopefully the new guy will still be happy with his transplant 5 years from now, but it isn't always so.

 

Let me give you an example. A guy goes to "Bad Clinic X" and has a very nice experience there. Everyone is friendly, the doctor gives him lots of attention, and it all goes smoothly. However in a year from now, this fellow will start to realize that his hair transplant actually doesn't look so hot. But in the days and weeks after his proecedure, this poor jerk was all over the internet, telling everybody what a great experience they will have at "Bad Clinic X" and recommending that clinic to other guys who were brand new to this. So lots of guys read his posts and took his advice, and went to "Bad Clinic X" and followed in his footsteps.

 

That kind of thing would be a disaster. That's why I made this thread in the first place.

 

I'm sorry but if you have trouble understanding my point, maybe you are just still way too new to all of this yourself. I think you had your own first procedure only a month ago. I hope you remain happy about your experience, but I bet in a year or two you will realize the truth of what I am talking about, because things change slowly over time. I hope you do get excellent results, too.

 

As I said, I think it's fine to relate your experiences at a clinic. But guys should hold off on recommending their doctors until they can really see their own results. Again, this is the main point I am trying to get across.

[hairhair]

Arfy, I do understand your point, I don't know why you keep assuming that you think I do not.

 

But whether someone actually outright recommends a doctor, and "good comments" will be taken by people as a form of promotion of said doctor. That's just a fact. It happens all the time.

 

Me, being into advertising, demographics and graphic design, I KNOW that absolutely ANYTHING remotely positive is taken by over 97% of society as positive promotion and the same thing with negative words. I see it in the ads I create, the promotions I create and the design that I put out. And it's no different with mere words, in fact, it's all that much more effective.

 

That does not mean that people shouldn't post their positive experiences (or negative ones for that matter), whether they are new to this or not.

 

I hope that makes sense. That's just how I feel. And I am sure that MOST people on here do their research and weed through these posts going way back and look for the outcomes of other HT people, they don't just look at one post, go to the bank and then out to the HT shop and get it done that day. And if they do, thenthey are the ones who would be suckered by the likes of Bosley or NuHart no matter what information that they had available to them.

 

Know what I mean?

 

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop saying and assuming that I do not understand your point, I have since your first post, but the fact that I respectfully disagreed on some of your points, in no way what-so-ever, means that I do not or did not understand you.

 

thanks.

[Guest]

Hi,

 

Your hair looks thin even in the donor area.

Was you Dr. sure that that hair would not be falling out soon later in life as well?

Hoewmany did you have done?

[Guest]

By the way, how many grafts did you have?

[Guest]

about 2,400 grafts, i was a norwood 5a and going to norwood 7 def....

 

i actually started thinning when i was like 15...it was sad actually...kids in highschool were like "wow..ur losing ur hair dood"

 

anyways, email me if u want the rest of the story..this is the wrong section.

[Guest]

In social psychology, there is a term used: "cognitive disonnance." Roughly speaking,it suggests that when we have paid a relatively large price (financial or otherwise) for something, statistically speaking, there appears to be a human tendency to judge our decision to have been a good one,even before we have sufficient evidence to make such a judgment - and even in some cases when there is some evidence of a poor jedgment. It's a statistical probablity indicating a human tendency, not universal - not something every persondoes in every circumstance. Obviously, we sometimes feel really ripped-off, that we've paid too high a price in some way or have not gotten what we expected. Nonetheless the "tendency" is there among many people.

 

An obvious intuitive explanation for such a tendency is that telling ourselves we have made a good decision will alleviate the anxiety we might feel about the as yet unknown outcome of a decision, while trying to get comfortablle about a cost already incurred.

 

Recommending a surgeon based upon the consultation experience and the experience of the surgery seems a way (sometimes) for people to proviide themselves with reassurance. That is, people will grab hold of whatever bits of evidence they can to reassure themselves. Making a recommendation of that surgeon prematurely is a way of saying "I feel sure about my choice," before the outcome is actually known.

 

The actual transplant results, observed over time, are a much more meaningful basis for making recommendations. And, of course, seeing photos of several patients who have posted photos of work by the same surgeon are helpful too. The more reports and the more documentation of a surgeons "outcomes," the more valid our judgments will be when choosing a surgeon. Reports, descriptions, photos and documentation, both good and bad are valuable in assists in choosing surgeons.

 

That said, I do like to hear thoughtfull comments about the "iinitial experience" a patient has had. The more inquisitive, articulate and perceptive patients can sometimes relay experiences that form the beginings of opinions about a surgeon. So, I also appreciated the comments of another veteren, "hairhair" who also posted to this thread. But I do believe I understand your point and wholeheartedly agree with you Arfy; I think you are absolutely correct when you point out that recommendations of surgeons prior to seeing one's longterm outcome and citing no other evidence to support such a recommendation is a useless and potentially harmful practice.

 

Yesterday, I underwent my second transplant procedure. The first was in October of 2001. Overtime, as I observed the results my disatisfaction increased. I travelled from Chicago to Arizona in order to have the second procedure performed by Dr. Keene. I can say that, so far, I am more pleased than the first time around. Dr. Keene struck me as highly intelligent, inquisitive, very thoughtful about her own work, "healthily" skeptical and thoughtful in her responses and observations during our consultatiion which covered a wide range of topics regarding hair transplantation. She struck me as frank, but not in the least bit arrogant.

 

The procedure itself seemed to procede in a way that was much more carefully handled than was my first procdure. The team was friendly, but what stood out more was that they were serious and earnest in their approach. Their patience and concentration never seemed to flag under the watchful eye and steady hand of Dr. Keene. I felt no sense that they were just trying to get done quickly. As it turned out, I was at the clinic for about nine hours for approximatelly 1300 grafts. Not all of the time was surgery.

 

There was much checking and re-checking of the graftseating an placement right up to the end of the day. I was back at their office this morning for further checking of the grafts, a first cleaning and a post-procedure set of photographs. The initial experience with Dr. Keene far exceeded the level of care and professionalism I experienced during my first procdure. Can I now recommend Dr. Keene to others just based upon what has transpired so far? I think that would be a bad idea. The outcome is what will ultimately matter. Personally, I feel a far greater degree of confidence about the likely outcome than I did the first time around with my Chicago surgeon, because of the way the experience with Dr. Keene has gone so far. I would also add that the pre-op and especially the post-op instruction was more thorough and drilled into me before and after.

 

The plan is for her to provide me with my before shots, second day photos and I will provide her with progress photos every three months or so. I just bought a 3meg digital camera (day three) I hope I can get decent close-ups. I am quite surprised at the appearance so far. Things look in good shape. Not a big mess of scabs like the first time I had surgery. No serious swelling yet and I am following the procedures recommended including icing the suture line and forehead (NOT GRAFTS!)hourly. Sleeping with head upright for first five nights (two so far) and taking post op meds. I'm conscious of avoiding anything that could thin my blood or raise my blood pressure - this was part of preop and post-op instructions.

 

Dr.Keene struck me as a Dr. who is highly inteterested in surgical outcome. "Sales" focus was not apparent to me in her demeanor. Her approach reminded me of the way any physician I respect works and it reminded me off how I approach my work with patients as a clinical psychologist (I deserve to be paid for my work just as others do, but I only concentrate on determining with the patient what will be best for them).

 

No recommendations yet, but I want others to know how the work with Dr. Keene began, and I intend to dilligently inform all of you of my progress over the course of the next year - including the posting of photos. Obviously I hope for an excellent outcome, but I will let others decide for themselves based on the evidence I provide.

 

Thanks again Arfy for an important post.

 

[This message was edited by paul148 on December 21, 2002 at 05:27 PM.]

[MarkV]

Paul -- Great post. I believe you nailed the point that needed to be made. You reported that your experience with Keene was great; but that you reserve making any final judgements or recommendations until your results become known.

 

Best of luck on getting great results.

[Guest]

I posted my previous message using a lousy system connected to the television set in my hotel room. I could barely read what I was writing, and editing was near impossible. The keyboard also had a mind of its own. Chunks of the original post were missing - it was really a mess. The updated post is the second post above this one. (Mark, thanks for you comments and the compliment)

 

It's day three now and I dropped by a Tuscon Kinkos with a good net connection, so I did a quick re-edit of the original post. Some information has been corrected such as the date of my first surgery - not 1981, but 2001. Obviously, a major difference.

 

I've also included a bit more info because another day has gone by and the Kinkos connection is a breeze for posting. Now, I hope I can get some decent shots with the camera I just bought at Best Buy in Tuscon. It was pricey, but I've gotten a great deal of help out of this board from the posts made by many of the regular contributors and many of the Drs. who post, and of course Pat H. who pulled this all together.

 

So, the camera purchase and documentation is a way I can express my gratitude to all on the board. Please be patient. I will have to get photos sent from Dr. Keene who is now away on a break, and I will start working with my new camera tonight.

[werewolfhead]

Arfy, I agree. There is way too much frenetic and anecdotal opinion on these sites sometimes. The other site can at times be dominated by that. I myself had a recent 500 FUE session but will reserve judgement for 6 months to a year. its just not fair to anyone else. Sure I will post pictures soon but I think that you are right. Many people are recommending doctors right after their surgery and this is mostly emotional stuff. In the end, it is a large body of well taken photographic results of mature patients that is so important. It is talking to patients on the phone and if at all possible, meeting them and the doctor. It involves research and it can involve dissappointment. all the best,WWH

[vocor1]

A couple of things:

 

paul148: a 3-megapixel camera will give you EXCELLENT close up details of your procedure. I have a 2.2-meg camera, and that produces huge 1800x1200 images that I can clearly see excellent detail on. I always take picts at full resolution, then use MS Photoeditor to resize the picts for posting or whatever. I'd recommend you always take the picts at your full resolution, then use software for resizing if needed. Make sure that your camera's "close-up" feature is enabled or you'll have focusing problems at very close ranges. My picts are coming out superbly so far.

 

arfy & others: your points are well taken. You may be delighted with the experience but you cannot be fully delighted (or disappointed) with the results until about 1 year or so after the procedure. Even then, it may not be the doc's fault. Not everyone is as good a good HT candidate as the next person. We just have to go with what we've seen and how we personally felt for now. A doctor's reputation certainly sets up an expectation for success (if recommended on this site, for example). No one can guarantee success because it is so subjective in some cases (one person may be delighted with the same results that another person is disappointed with.

 

Arfy is right. I have recently had my HT. I will try to report what I felt and experienced, while saving judgment on the results until the appopriate time.

 

One year from now, I hope to display results that are positive and anticipated. I am very hopeful for that day. In the meantime, I am thankful for this site and the people who posted their experiences here. I have made the best decision possible for me and I feel as informed as I can be. That is to say, I did my research and know that made an informed decision. That is all I could ask for, personally.

[HarryLemon]

Hey, you know what?

 

I agree with you as well!

 

I admit to having been quite boisterously eager to share my "projections" as solid, completed experiences (having just been done by Shapiro), a bit pre-maturely myself!

 

I want to add that I have kept "im-shtum" as a result of this thread's creation since then - out of respect, if not total agreement, to the reasons laid out within the original posting. That is NOT to say that I don't understand those reasons, even less that I don't agree with them to a considerably large degree (only, in the latter case, if I were to agree with the assumption that everyone reading every post here-in was totally naive to the background history that we all AUGHT to be supplanting ourselves with in our education here-in to begin with).

 

I did not assume such naivety, but - in turn - also 'ASS-U-ME-d' the opposite would not take place either: that people wouldn't correlate my enthusiasm with the freshness of the experience and further consider the practitioner with whom I'd had it done. For this I do humbly, and happily, bow my head in observance of the passage of time (with no small amount of eagerness and anxiety in the mix for good measure!).

 

I look forward to sharing with everyone here the ACTUAL results of the surgery I had done on 11/8/02, and for the experience to be of GENUINE use to anyone who (like myself before) may come traipsing across this site looking for answers just the same as I myself had done not so long ago...

 

So, here I am, actually CONCEDING to something outside of my own control - go figure!

 

Bear with me while I go a tad self-indulgent here - I just have to marvel at the bare-faced nature of it all: the risk - THE LIFETIME RISK - that any person, who submits himself as a patient to such a procedure, faces is quite difficult to deal with in the interim between the surgery and the results. It's pretty excruciating when one removes, and unravels (if only temporarily), the hopes and visions one cocoons their dreams with UNTIL those dreams are an actual reality themselves!

 

Ahh, well there we go! I just looked in the mirror again, and all is right with the world!

 

But we'll know for sure before too long! :-)

 

Thank you Gentleman!

 

HarryLemon

 

[This message was edited by HarryLemon on December 24, 2002 at 11:11 AM.]

[uncjim]

Of course, the experience of surgery (including pre and post op) is an integral part of the process. Nobody should feel shy about sharing it with others, if they desire. That is why I posted my pictures. They are what they are. If anyone chooses to take this information and use it to help them make a decision, that is their choice.

[HarryLemon]

Hi uncjim - I hope you don't think I was targeting you in that statement (which I removed now) about "freshmen posting recommendations as we speak". At least you took and shared some pictures (very good ones) about the experience!

And you're right that "they are what they are" and it being the reader's choice to make any further decisions based off of those facts for themselves.

 

I was just chiming-in with the sensitivities of some of the others here in that any actual recommendations, at such an early stage as myself (for example - 6 weeks post-op), may be a little pre-mature, that's all.

 

God knows I know how good it's GOING to look (knock on wood!), but the proof, as they say, really is in the pudding - and that baby's still in the oven, for the time being!

[hairhair]

OK, but for me, still, the bottom line is that I would much rather see someone post from the absolute very beginning to end, and do it in a joyous way.

 

There's nothing better than seeing someone start off ecstatic and end the same way, or would you rather people NOT say anything to begin with then all of a sudden come out of the woodwork with a whole story that has had a chance to deteriorate over ttime?

 

For myself, and i amsure for many others, these sorts of posts helped us in our decision-making process a whole hell of a lot more.

 

Especially for those who have had bad HT's done in the past, and eben those who have NEVER had one done and do not REALLY know much about it or what to expect.

 

That's just me though. But then I won't knock anyone else for posting whatever they please.

[uncjim]

HarryLemon,

Not at all my friend, I don't feel targeted. My point is, and I think you understand, that I respect the ability of "My Fellow Hair Transplant Man" to make his or her own decisions and relate their experiences undeterred. If your happy and you want to let the world know, go for it, even if that involves making a recommenation because of the sheer joy of the experience. The people posting here are hip to what's going on.

 

Happy New Year!

Jim