Open discussion with Falceros

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Mrjb:

Yeah PerfectFew

 

Everyone is lying .. I think they call this

 

psychosis

 

See ya crazyman

 

Nope, just the shills: 939 posts by you. How much are you being paid?

[MrJobi]

Logic

 

Did he say Logic ???

 

where? Where??

 

I do see a hint to psychosis

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Mrjb:

Logic

 

Did he say Logic ???

 

where? Where??

 

I do see a hint to psychosis

 

Deflection.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

OK , WHERE ARE THE HIDDEN CAMERAS, THE JOKE IS OVER.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Yes, you guys are right to ask for real evidence. Since Imperfect Few can't provide any I will.

 

Imperfect Few,

 

You have called me a liar in multiple topics on this forum for stating that I removed Dr. Goertz due to concerns about the quality of his work. You then falsely allege that I made disparaging remarks about Dr. Goertz after he chose to quit. But you have no evidence to provide.

 

Of course, why would you since you were not involved in my decision to remove Dr. Goertz. You are after all only a patient of his, right?

 

However, I do have proof. I keep all my emails and I spent time searching my correspondence with Dr. Goertz. Below is an email I sent to Dr. Goertz on February 27th of 2005 notifying him that I would no longer continue recommending him on our community due to quality concerns.

 

The dishonesty of your false allegations is easily apparent when my correspondence with Dr. Goertz is read (see below):

 

Dr. Goertz's response to my email and my follow up reply are also included.

 

Once again, know the score before you shoot your mouth off and spread lies across our forum.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Pat - Hair Transplant Network [mailto:pat@hairtransplantnetwork.com]

Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:19 PM

To: Brian Goertz

Subject: Dr. Goertz, We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network

 

Dr. Goertz,

 

I have not received the immediate post op photos that I requested and therefore will not be able to renew your membership in the Coalition or continue recommending you on the Hair Transplant Network. As I mentioned in my previous email the standards for inclusion in the Coalition are now higher and all those renewing were asked to submit these post op photos to be considered for renewal.

 

I'm also concerned by the post op photos I saw posted on our forum by the contest winner you did. In my opinion the incisions are too large and far apart and invasive on the scalp and do not meet our current standards for membership. I have attached this photo for your reference and also a photo showing the type of immediate post op results we expect of Coalition members.

 

You will note the small minimally invasive incisions that are closely placed to allow for good cosmetic density after one session.

I hope that you take this feed back in a constructive light. The bar for excellent hair restoration has moved considerably higher in the past two years and our editorial content and recommendations need to reflect these new realities.

 

For now I will not be able to present you on either the Coalition web sites or the Hair Transplant Network.com.

 

If you feel that your patient's posted photos are not representative of your work, now or in the future, please feel free to send them to me and we will reconsider presenting you again on our sites.

 

Thank you for your past support and best wishes for your practice in the future.

 

Patrick Hennessey

 

Dr. Goertz's reply:

 

I am offended that you would cancel me as a recommended physician with such a paucity of correspondence at the 11th hour! You already knew before this posting your new criteria, why was I not informed?

 

If we are truly a "Coalition of Independent Physicians" should we not be judged by our peers? I am completely comfortable by having my work and results judged by them. Would it not be more appropriate for other members of the coalition to be involved in this all important step?

 

As I discussed with you when you first invited me to join and you requested to observe my surgery, it made me uncomfortable. It still is not appropriate for a lay person. I would invite any of my colleagues to observe me and have trained others as well.

 

Again please review the attached photos. If you would like to see more please let me know the size of files you can accept and I will send them.

 

I truly feel my work is second to none, yet try to improve my techniques daily. I have learned much from my colleagues look forward to continued sharing of ideas with them as we try to improve the field of hair transplantation for our patients.

 

I sincerely hope you find this helpful,

 

PS. I did leave you a voicemail on your cell phone this morning but have not heard from you.

Please respond by March 1st.

 

My follow up reply:

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:46:57 -0800 (PST)

From: Patrick Hennessey

Subject: Re: , We will not be able to renew you in the Coalition or in the Hair Transplant Network

To:

 

Thank you for taking the time to provide me with more information about your surgical philosophy. I know that it is difficult to have a "lay person" make judgments about your work. You are certainly not the first to voice this concern.

 

However, ultimately it is always the lay person who makes the final determination on their choice of treatment and physician. Ideally their decision will be based upon information gathered during a medical consultation with a qualified physician and from comparing notes and experiences with actual patients, on and offline.

 

Today many potential patients look to the Internet as a resource for gathering and sharing credible information. We strive to serve hair loss sufferers by helping to educate them about procedures and physicians who we think are in their best interest. We are careful to not claim to have definative information. We simply offer those visiting our sites the best information we can in an open environment in which they can share information.

 

I have privately observed dozens of surgical procedures first hand in clinics over the past seven years. I've also attended over a dozen hair restoration conferences and workshops. While this does not qualify me to do surgery, it has given me a solid grounding in what constitutes state of the art surgery.

 

I may be wrong in choosing for now to not present you on our sites. But I would rather error on the conservative side than endorse a physician I need to learn more about to confidently endorse.

 

I have made the mistake of endorsing physicians who later did not meet my expectations or those of the patients that found them on our sites. I have found this scenario to be much more troubling than not promoting a physician I'm not completely confident with.

 

I did take your suggestion to heart to gather a second opinion from a hair restoration physician who I trust. This physician was shown the two post op photos of your work anonymously and asked to evaluate them. Like me, he found the incisions to be more invasive than ideally needed and the grafts to be larger than necessary for a truly refined state of the art hair transplant.

 

Much has changed over the past few years and today surgeons are doing work that they would not have imagined just a couple of years ago. I believe that you are a sincere and ethical physician and that you may well be doing truly outstanding surgeries in the near future.

 

I will remain open to learning more about your ever evolving surgery and results in the hope that one day we will be confident in promoting you on our web communities.

 

I hope you understand my need to error on the safe side at least for now.

Thank you for your past support. I look forward to the day when we will be able to collaborate once again.

 

Patrick Hennessey, Publisher of the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Restoration Network and the Hair Loss Learning Center

[NeedSomeDew]

Not sure about anybody else here, but I think it would be just plain weird to have a stranger in the operating room observing my hair transplant so they could post my results on the internet.

 

I would have to side with Dr Goertz on this one. Having someone in an operating room who is not medically trained and does not hold a medical degree (or hasn't performed a surgery like a technician or something) doesn't really say much. Not to mention patient privacy and all that. I think it is just inappropriate.

 

Although I can appreciate what Pat is saying, I think it is really just more his opinion than anything. I could understand if the other physicians in the coalition were allowed to judge the results, but I don't think Pat holds any qualifications to judge the results. It would probably be better if someone who wasn't receiving money for it actually did the judging. Seems like a bit of a conflict of interest to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, I was just reading about the whole argument about money. If Pat doesn't actually get paid from doctors, I guess my point is off base.

 

I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about hair transplants before I go under the knife, so I really just want to get the opinions of patients who have actually had a procedure by a given doctor. Anyone can have an opinion of work done on someone else and photos don't really do much for me, so first hand knowledge is way better in my book.

[hairbank]

NeedSomeDew-

 

I reviewed your posts before responding to this and am suspect of your intentions here on HTN? The threads you've been involved with all relate to the recent conflict regarding Perfect Few and Dr. Goertz. Are you for real?

 

I'm not going to revisit the debate. I will mention in response to your observation about a non-physician in the operating room..........what's the big deal? There are techs in and out of the room all the time. While none of us would ever be qualified to peform a HT on someone from watching, seeing numberous results of work "first-hand", a layperson can determine whether or not a HT was a quality job without any medical training.

 

Whether or not Pat gets paid makes no difference. Physician's have been added that deserve to be added because they are good, physicians that do not consistently perform have been removed.........plain and simple. If it was about the money you'd never see a surgeon removed as it would be financially detrimental to the site owner.

 

I hope you are for real..........maybe I'm a little gun-shy because of all this mess. Try to take my post in context.

 

Thanks,

[Bill - Seemiller]

NeedsomeDew,

 

I would like to help you if you are for real, but you have just recently posted on hairlossdoctorlist as stating you were banned from this site without cause...since that's obviously false, we can conclude one of two things:

 

1. You are lying

2. You had technical problems getting in and assumed you were banned.

 

If you don't remember...you said on the other forum replying to PerfectFew:

 

I also inquired about the paid advertising and this morning when I went to see if anyone who answered my questions, I notice my account was locked out. I didn't receive an email or anything as to why.

 

He didn't even tell anyone on the list that he locked me out!

 

 

The debate is over at this point...so I also feel there is no need to revisit it. Read all the threads on the debate and conclude for yourself.

 

You are not banned...so we are certainly willing to help you if your intentions are pure.

 

Bill

[the B spot]

RREEEEHHHEEEEEEAAAAALLLLLLYYYYYYY ?

Interesting, Yes provocative............

 

Hmmmmmmm.

 

Tomfoolery!!!!!!!

[TomA]

I think he had posts removed that were not on topic and he thought that meant that he was banned. (Both his posts and my answers to them were removed because they didn't relate to the topic of the thread.) As Pat mentioned earlier, things god a bit disorganized yesterday...

[Bill - Seemiller]

TomA,

 

Well I hope you are right and that he doesn't buy into the scam website. Either way...I still don't suspect it will last long.

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

P.S.

 

My posts have been officially removed from hairlossdoctorlist.com. Interesting...but not unexpected.

 

Bill

[hairbank]

Just checked the Hairlossdoctor site, some of my posts have been removed as well. The ones that were apparently okay have been left.

 

FYI for anyone wanting to frequent the site............it apparently it is controlled by a physician so beware.

[Bill - Seemiller]

hairbank,

 

Oh yes...it is controlled by Dr. Goertz...since he is the one who owns the domain name. Network Solutions WHOIS tells all

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Wow...they really cleaned site over there. MOST of PerfectFew's posts have been removed as well...what does that tell you?

 

Maybe the doc is aware that his posts made him look bad. ROTFLMAO.

 

Bill

[hairbank]

Yes............it appears almost all of my posts have been removed as well.

 

I did notice that the only surgeon from our Coalition that now remains on the their list is Dr. Limmer.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hairbank,

 

yeah, I have no plans on posting on that forum again. If they can't handle the truth, that's their problem.

 

I trust Dr. Limmer will remove himself from that site...if not, we'll have to deal with it when the time comes.

 

Bill

[Hans - Webmaster]

Here is an interesting new development. It looks like the new site www.hairlossdoctorlist.com has dropped the forum and now only comprises of a single home page.

 

Also note how closely the opening statement of the site is very similar to that of the Hair Transplant Network.

 

Looks like they have cooked their goose.

 

Hans

[Bill - Seemiller]

Braveheart,

 

Interesting isn't it? That's because MOST of the doctors left the site when they learned about the malicious nature of it.

 

Bill

[nan]

I can tell you first hand that pat is here for more than the money. He has taken to talk me on the phone in the past completly privately with nothing togain form it.

he was very veryhelpful. In fact it probably coudl have cost him money and he is on the patients side trust me. If he gets paid to be the lookout even better!

[Tha Joe]

I know of a GREAT surgeon who performs transplants IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!

[Pat - Community Publisher]

I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. But now that everyone has said their peace and Perfect Few has run his course like a bad virus its time to put this controversy and this topic to bed. I've locked this thread.

 

Best wishes, Pat