Rambler

At least you could say .. I don't care to answer that right now, or the question isn't appropriate, or something, or at least acknowledge that a question was asked. When someone asks another member a question and it isn't even acknowledged, makes it seem like this is an unfriendly or "clic" kind of place. I'm just curious about you and what you'll do that's all. Rambler .

ngtgb, How long have you been considering a HT? Looks like you've been a member, of this forum anyway, for about 6 months. Your are obviously very educated on the subject, dedicated to the research/docs/results etc.. You've got your fav doc, what's holding you back? Could we get a peek of your hairlessness situ? Rambler .

Actually I thought of gizmo when I was posting this, hoping not to worry him more. But Joe's answer is good news that even if feeling is lost, the nerves aren't gone or damaged forever. Rambler .

It would depend on the length of the journey but if I had a choice I would drive it. Airports suck with all the waiting and it can be pretty draining and a waste of a lot of time where you could be home instead. Then there's the trip from the airport to home you have to do too. If your session is an all day thing I would probably sleep over though and travel the next day. Get a bandana instead of a hat. They are more flimsy and you can put it on very loosely. If your in your car then who cares, just leave it off. Rambler .

I'm wondering from those here that have had multiple procedures, specifically 3 or more, how the bodies physiology in general heals the nerves in the scalp, in the donor area that is. Did you have increased numbing long term or permanent from which you would attribute to too many passes on the nerves? Small little areas or overall, above the donor scar that just didn't recover fully or would you say that 3 or more procedures doesn't really have a risk of this nature? Rambler .

I'm wondering from those here that have had multiple procedures, specifically 3 or more, how the bodies physiology in general heals the nerves in the scalp, in the donor area that is. Did you have increased numbing long term or permanent from which you would attribute to too many passes on the nerves? Small little areas or overall, above the donor scar that just didn't recover fully or would you say that 3 or more procedures doesn't really have a risk of this nature? Rambler .

The Emperor, There's lots of post-op pics of donor scars. Go through the blogs, and have a look around. I would also contact your doc, go see him if possible, or send him some pics if he isn't local. I'm not an expert on donor scars but have you done anything unusual that would have widened the scar, like premature exercising, tilting your head forward excessively to "test" the donor tightness, excessive scratching during the initial healing? Did you wait 10 days until you removed the staples? The patch of hair missing is likely shock loss. This is considered a normal side effect for some, not always but it happens. There are also pics of donor area shock loss in the blogs. From what I've seen the donor shock is likely to come back. Rambler .

Hi Guys, I keep forgetting to ask doctors about this, but has anyone here had a blood vessel in your head, usually near the temple area, you know the one, that your grade school teacher had and it pulsed when he was yelling at you? I have one of these and it's fairly prominent and extends up directly into an area I plan for transplants. Think this is workaroundable? I'd hate to puncture this one but need grafts where it is at. Rambler .

Hi Guys, I keep forgetting to ask doctors about this, but has anyone here had a blood vessel in your head, usually near the temple area, you know the one, that your grade school teacher had and it pulsed when he was yelling at you? I have one of these and it's fairly prominent and extends up directly into an area I plan for transplants. Think this is workaroundable? I'd hate to puncture this one but need grafts where it is at. Rambler .

Philippos, In my opinion if you don't have the info your asking about already, I would cancel the appt. lose your deposit and start again. It may not be possible for some to have 100% confidence in any doctor even with massive research, but where your at now you have absolutely none. Trust me, you owe it to yourself to do some more research first. I don't know about HDC, maybe they are good and someone else will come along and ease your mind. but if they don't think about what I said. Rambler .

flyby, No problems with the buzzing, I figured I'd arrive with a 4 all over and let them finish me off from there. Here are the most important things. 1) Quality, artistic, natural looking hair transplant(non-pitted). Donor scar quality. I know there will be one, but the quality of it matters considerably. 2) Density 3) Cost To me, if number one isn't a realistic outcome, there's no sense even doing it. I'd rather be bald, honestly. If it is, and number 2 is a realistic agreed upon amount, all the rest is colored bubbles. Rambler .

Agio, Today's your 2 week mark? I think your going to be happy, that was a serious session and it looks good. Agree, the hairline will take up considerable if it is to be done right. You have links to those dense pack articles? Rambler .

Ok, here are some more photos with wet hair. I love modern technology :-) Front Left Right The right side is the worst. It has a vacant area that the left doesn't. Well it does, but not as much. The entire frontal area isn't as dense as the, what do you call it? the "helmet area" of the head where the donor stems from but I've been thinning for 20 years so I'm pretty sure I won't lose much more. My goal is to camaouflage the 900 graft pitted hairline. It's pretty roughly outlined with 2-3-4 hair grafts too so will need a new transition zone. Also to fill in the more vacant areas on the right/left just behind the hairline. I imagine some beefing up of the entire area would be needed as well. Now compare this "canvas" with the others and you will see what I mean. So If the 3500 would make the entire frontal area as dense as the helmet area then I can see, but I'm not sure this is a realistic goal or not. Rambler .

Bill, Well, density per say isn't the main question here. It directly relates but ... It's the amount of proposed grafts for my procedure. I am making comparisons of those similar to me and the amount of grafts they received. So far I am finding individuals with more thinning and less grafts with pretty decent results. So why 3500 for me? The first comparisons I posted were from a site that uses flash on hairlines, therefore not really an accurate visual of the result. So I compared with H&W's photos because their photos, I believe, are more an accurate representation of density/coverage. Also because it was H&W that proposed 3500 for mine. Like I said, from looking at the results of others and their thinning/grafts of procedure, the math just doesn't add up for me. So this leads me to believe a procedure of 3500 with my area to be filled would be more dense? Rambler .

Agio, I've read about your doctor and his work is very impressive. He seems to have very good artistry skills. I can't wait to see how yours looks in a few months. Thanks for the photo too. I can see how little tiny dots add up real quick. Strangely, to me some of the slits look longer than I would expect them too. I'm still running abound like a mad scientist doing comparisons, and it "is" a bit confusing still. I understand everything everyone has said so far and agree. but.. Here's a couple more. Let's take Hasson&Wong for example because that is where I was given an estimate of 3500 grafts. This assessment did not come from the doctor mind you, but from a consultant that has my photos that I posted earlier. Another reason for H&W examples is I believe they represent "actual" results ( lighting/photography ) I'm looking mainly for those who's condition is similar to mine and comparing the amount of grafts of their procedure... Patient 26 Now this guy is definitely further thinning than I am and his result is not what I would call ultra-densle packed but it is pretty nice considering it was 2100 grafts. He got a whole hairline constructed plus filler for a significant receding area. Patient 48 Look at all the forehead on the before photos. That's a lot of recipient area. 1900 grafts. Again, not really dense-packed but pretty good coverage considering the area/grafts inserted. Patient 59 Once again, a lot of recipient area to be covered. A lot more than I need for sure. 2699 grafts. Are these photos deceiving in some way? or are they planning to pack me like a rabid wolfman? I definitely would like more density than these examples, but the math just doesn't add up. Jotronic, Is it possible to get more densely packed results than these in a single procedure? Even if part of the procedure is building a hairline in an area where there are no hairs? Rambler .

I figured it was something like that :-) Rambler .

Hi Chucky, Jotronic was making a point that in, I think, most cases the flash actually makes it look like there's more hair due to the shadowing effect of the reflection of the hairs upon themselves. I've done experiments here and also found that to be true. Could be on crowns, in certain situations, the direction of the reflection and viewer eye level may make flash make it look worse. Rambler .

In regards to the lighting, It looks like this website has it backwards... Near the middle of this page... Rambler .

its752, So in the end, did the 2400 live up to your expectations? What was the deciding factor for less grafts? sufficient density w/2400? donor considerations? other technical issues? Jotronic, Good points about the flash. Photos are subjective for sure, I guess I was speaking in a broad general sense of comparison.

The initial count and cost did throw me but it's not "just" the money. Big factor yes, but there are other factors to consider. I'm reading up on Dr. Bernsteins information and he states about dense packing on his website... Well dense packing is more than "chat" now but the concerns are valid. I can't afford another "sub-optimal" result. I also look at his photo section and see by comparison graft/baldness ratios. I consider myself similiar to this guy who had only - 1600 grafts with great results. As far as can be seen by the photos. Actually I'm not quite as far gone as this even. 1600 grafts By comparison, these 2 guys are considerably further balding than myself and had in the 3500 range, which is what leads me to believe that 3500 is just too much for me. 3523 Grafts 3579 Grafts Rambler .

Nervous, No problemo, I totally get your point about the $$ difference and you make valid points. I stand corrected ( Jotronic ) about the price I stated. When I heard the amount of grafts suggested and the cost ( even at $14,500 ), I did have to pause and really consider whether I wish to pay this much and do a procedure at all. Now before anyone says .. Stop .. You are not ready, don't do it with that thinking.. Yes I know what is said here about the general consensus .. geographic/cost when selecting a physician/procedure but, in fact, it does matter to a certain extent. Not so much geographics, but overall cost does matter. Jotronic, I think I will take you up on the phone call. How's tomorrow? I am still in research mode and exploring my options. Rambler .

Thanks stevo, I am ready to get this done. Which means I have about 2-4 more months of research to do :-) Rambler .

Hi Nervous, I'm 46 and started thinning at about age 26. No family history of balding at all, but my grandfather on my mothers side thinned all over but never even receded. My father has a full head of hair ( wolfman hairline actually ). So I suspect I get the thinning I have from my mothers genetics. My first HT, 10 years ago, was 900 grafts just in the hairline and a few planted in behind. I knew I would probably thin a bit more and considering the progress of thinning in 10 years has been so minimal I don't think I will lose that much more. I also didn't experience any shock loss on my first one. Not that I noticed anyway and the healing process was picture perfect. Stubbles, they fell out, and started growing in at 3 months etc.. my donor scar is excellent as well. I can't even find it. I know that some have experienced more shock loss on teir 2nd procedures so nothing is certain I suppose. But most shock loss does grow back right? Expectations? To efectively repair ( cover up ) the 1st bad procedure, it's pitted, and with that have the newly created hairline VERY natural. I would like the areas that are thinning behind the actual hairline to be filled in to be as dense as the mid lock. Ideally, I would like the whole area to be beefed up in general too, including the area where there is hair so that it all matches the areas further behind. Be nice to have it all filled in like that area, plus the hairline transition fixed. I was just a little shocked at the amount of grafts suggested, but your reasoning makes sense. I disagree a bit about not much difference between 10,000 and 16,000 though. That's a big difference lol. After all the research and comparing others graft count to baldness ratios I was estimating somewhere around 1500-2000, or max 2500 to meet my goals. Thanks for your input. Rambler .

Below are links to photos of my hairloss situation. I sent these pics to H&W for a virtual consultation to get an idea. I'm in California so wanted to get a rough idea before I actually fly to Vancouver to speak to the doc. My goal is to do a repair of a shabby hairline ( rough and also pitted from previous hairline HT of 900 grafts ) and fill in the surrounding thinning areas behind as you can see in the photos. The reply I got was that it was suggested I will need 3500 grafts. $5 first 2000, 4 for the remaining. That's $16,000. I know price should not be factored in necessarily, but damn! For my fairly light hairloss? It looks like I am thinning a bit in the crown on the side pics but I'm really not and do not want any grafts there. The top pic shows the crown area as it really is. If you look at fallenstars recent procedure which was ( and warrants ) 3500, he is way more gone than mine is, almost completely balding up front/top. No disrespect fallenstar. Yes, I want fairly dense, and most of all natural, but I had no expectation of so many. I don't think I look like a 3500graft candidate. What do you all think? I've been comparing a lot of procedures of much less and I would think it would be more like 1500-2000 realistically to meet my goals. Here are my photos... Most of the hair hanging down on the sides is from the first hairline transplant. This will need to be covered up per say as it is messed up and a new hairline will have to be created in front of it. A softer, transition zone, as well as some inside the actual previous HT to help camouflage it. Right side Left side Top Front Donor Rambler .

I sent Dr. Rassman an email on 1/21 inviting him to call me. Not receiving a response I called the office Thursday 1/24. He was not in at the moment, so I left a message for him to call back. Still no contact from him. It's been almost a week with no correspondence. I'm doing what I can to reach resolution with this but don't seem to be getting any cooperation. I would think a the very least a telephone call to discuss this with me would have been an appropriate first step towards an end, in addition, it would show me that some level of concern towards my situation and options are even important to them. I gotta tell you, I am really disappointed with how this is being handled by NHI and its staff. Rambler