Tsakalos

Joe i havent opened up anything online yet, for the reason that you denied to send me MY pics, So i want you to send me a link via email, where i can download ALL the pics and video that you have of ME, becouse i want to make a thread,, when you send me the files in HIGH resolution, i will make a thread (when i have the time to fully document it) regarding my case. whats funny though is that you are asking permission to speak for my case while i havent spoken at all about it yet. I Just want a link to download every material that u have me exactly as it was captured, cause i want to use them alone with mine. I dont see why for 3 weeks now you are not sending the files that i happen to be on them. Its my right to have them. I hope my request is clear.

so spex is not working anymore for dr, feller ?

actually The count Of Baldecristo made it clear and it was 3rd surgery and i am waiting for MY pics from the clinic in order to share the "experience", i want to share it, i have my pics but i also want to use the pics they have of me (the older and the newest" . for some reason which sounds really odd, when i asked for my pics a few days ago, they denied to send them. So i want all my pics they have of my as they were taken, in high resolution. i dont need to say again, plz send me ALL the pics, which i am being presented, the ones from the surgery day, and the latest, thanx

this is a succesfull ht man, enjoy it, how many grafts was it ? are u going for more ?

looking good man, but where r the before pics ?

Yes you remember well, thats right, u are absolutely have a good memory. This is exactly what happened in the past, As far as the second part of your post, regarding the latest HT, i havent shared it so far for various reasons, although those reasons never were evaluated correctly from my clinic. I do not agree with what i am being told regarding my results and i feel that any other person with common sense will agree with me when the case is presented, so right now my decicion is to share it, with COMPLETE documentation, I havy many pics and i also apart from using my pics i want to also use the pics the clinic has. As soon as i get these pics from my clinic i will make my own topic, in order to get opinions, and advice for the future, If my clinic reps sees this, i request that he sends me ALL the pics (older and latest ones) and videos he has of me which i dont have, in high resolution, becouse i want to use them along with my pics, since i am one that is being presented on the pics i request, i dont see any reason why i have to ask again and again to be delivered to me. its my right to have this material on my possession for whatever reason i like. Now regarding the topic about clinic reps, being on salary or commission, imo clinic reps should be both and salary and commision. and i will tell u why. Becouse their job is consisted of 2 major components, 1 is to make hair transplant sales, so its logical to have an extra fee for every patient that they sign up. i dont see anything wrong with that assuming everything is being done proffesionally. 2 Is the patient service they offer, this includes patients who already have ht with them and they are asking questions, or possible customers who are interested in getting the procedure done and also asking questions etc even if at the end they wont sign up. In both cases the clinic rep is spending time talking with them or sending emails, and for this occupation a fixed salary must be paid to them. therefore salary and commision makes more of a logical sense to me. I also need to say that apart from the reps that they are on the forums, most docs have reps in other countries which they are working only part time and they are getting paid only on comission. arround 300-400 per "head" they send to the clinic

Sure, hair clinic reps deny hair transplants to some people. Depends on a lot of factors, such as unrealistic expectations or in some cases, they will deny hair transplants on people becouse based on their characteristics the results will not be good, or even will deny hair transplants on people who dont take propecia for example. In this case they want to avoid 2 things. 1 is the patient disatisfaction and 2 is their online image. Obviously the "clinic's online image" also known as "global domination marathon race" that many of these clinics are competing to, plays an important role in denying a hair transplant to someone, and also on how customer complaints are being "taken cared of" in some cases. Else how can someone explain comments such as "We are dominating the forums", "I am the best", "I am the only doctor who can do this or that" and so on. Who cares ? (apart from them) Becouse i assure you, such things are being told to patients, especially to patients that had surgery to a major competitor before, just becouse in some of these cases the doctor sees a great opportunity to improve or fix the previous doctor's "screw up" especially in cases that patients are known forum posters, since the "cold war" between Top docs plays an important role for them, but not for the patients, becouse the patient who goes to Dr, X while previously has been to Dr. Z, doesnt care at all about who is the best or doesnt care at all about comparing the clinics, he only wants to get a successfull ht, to improve his appearance, and to carry on with his life. I told you that i am a salesman in the health industy, What i didnt tell you is that i have only 2 target group of customers. They are either pharmacists or dermatologists (which means doctors) I do bussiness transactions with doctors for 10 years now, I have such a great experience and you need to know that drs do not like accepting their mistakes, and do not even like to hear any arguments, even though when its clear (or almost clear) that things are completely different from what they claim to be, (at this point i dont want to get into that any further) I do accept the fact the clinics care so much about their online image. I fully understand it. Who doesnt want to be succesfull ? Especially when they have worked so many years and so hard for building a reputation. However patient satisfaction Comes FIRST, and everything else is of less importance. Why do you think that in several "not so great cases" photos are being taken down, and threads are being locked ? (i want to make clear that forum moderators have nothing to do with this) Why in such cases where posters seem to be unhappy, clinic reps from OTHER docs, are sending PMs to us, asking whether we were "requested" to take down our pics, or edit our posts ? Why do they care ? I realize that they care about us, who feel unhappy and they want to help. Ok acceptable up to this point. However why clinic reps from OTHER docs have suddenly such an interest asking questions in order to find out the "conditions" as to why pics or posts of unhappy patients were edited/deleted ? Becouse if they just wanted to help us, their interest whould have ended up at the point where they have seen the pictures, and suggest a possible solution to improve our situations from the doc they represent and nothing more !! But asking questions to find out why the pics or posts were deleted doesnt have anything to do with the patient being unhappy right ? Is this a part of the "cold war" between clinics and the 1st place for the "global domination" thing that we patients dont care at all about ? Isn't this exactly, the well known "not so ethical" sales tactic we all know, according to which the basic rule is "burry your competitor" ??? And always under the table by private messaging or emails, becouse the same people (clinic reps) who are sending pm's having such a great interest about why were the posts or pics deleted / edited, are the same people who claim that they are here in order to help us, using the argument of how they are getting paid (salary or commision) thinking that by this way, they will convince us that they indeed are here only in order to help us simply becouse they are not working with commission (who cares anyway) For the clinic reps, since we are not retarted nor stupid, prove that u actually want to help us, simply by commenting on the case and suggesting a possible solution from the doctor you represent, and not by asking questions in order to find out if we were "requested" to take down our pics or posts, stop asking questions trying to find out if we have come in contact with other clinic reps or if we shared our unhappy situation with other forum posters, becouse it aint your business, becouse we are here to find a solution to our problem, and not to participate into this sick "clinic wars" thing that you so much care about, while our only interest is an acceptable and realistic outcome that will provide satisfaction in order to carry on with our lives.

Certain behaviours as the ones that i have described above, only come in surface when u have personal experience and when things go wrong. if the patient is happy with the product/investment assuming he has realistic expectations, there wont be any complaints, so such examples will not occur.

I had transplants with 2 different clinics, wearing a wig before that, having several "treatments" like lasers before the wig, I have a 10 year "close relationship" with the hair loss industry.? As far as the above comments i havent been specific and/or mentioning specific clinics/reps that post on this board. Have I ? (at least not yet) spex is right though, i never had surgery with Dr. Feller, nor i had any Clinic rep / patient-customer / relationship with spex.

i work in the health industry doing wholesales. not hair transplants but based on my experience and being in the forums many years i ll tell u this. a hair transplant rep is nothing but a salesman who happens to have a hair transplant from the doctor he represents, in some cases they even represent other docs while they had the work done elsewhere. I have nothing against salesmen, cause i am one also. So i ll be honest, Nobody can deny that salesmen of all types, need to be persuasive, smart, versatile into handling problems professionaly. As i said i am a salesman, so what i am telling you here is the real thing. These are some of the basic charectiristics of salesmen. Usually salesmen are given a certain goal for a period of time, in which they need to accomplish, for example making sales of 100.000 a month etc. Salesmen usually work with salary, or commision based on succesfull sales, or a combination of both. While hair transplant reps are salesmen, you can not distinguise easily the successfull from the unsuccefull ones, simply becouse in those type of sales, its not how "powerfull" the clinic rep / salesman is (unlike in other types of sales), but the main motive for the candidate / customer is how good the results are (or how good he thinks they are), so the skills of "persuating" the candidate to "buy" the product are less important since results (at least the ones that the potentian customer sees) play the major role. Considering the above fact, this means that many of those clinic reps, even in "top clinics", had absolutely zero or little experience regarding sales, or public relations before getting this job, and/or they had zero or little special education regarding sales and marketing. Some of the basic rules in sales, is to always respect your customer, always to be polite and patient, always to hear their complaints even if they are right or wrong, and never under any circumstances under estimate your customer's IQ, for the simple reason is that the salesman and his boss, LIVE from the money that such customers are leaving to the bussiness. In this case the clinic rep, the doc, and the clinic, (surgical assistants too) However many of the clinic reps do not take in consideration the above "unwritten rules" of sales. In some cases (not always of course) they are not polite, they are not accurate, the one time they will tell u this and they other time will tell u that, and often pretend to be smarter than everyone else (or smartass if i can use the term), while the truth is that they might be more naive than many (or at least some) of the people they come in contact with. Let me give you some examples. For example, when u ask the clinic rep "Send me the graft count" what does this mean ? It means that the patient wants the graft count, WHen the clinic rep replies " I dont have it" and then when he is being re asked for it, and replies, " I didnt have it in front of me" what exactly does that mean ? It means that he is unable to understand the need of the patient to receive his graft count, else the rediculous reply "I didnt have it in front me of me" doesnt stand, instead a proper reply whould have been " I will send it to you sortly, cause right now i dont have it in front of me" or even better, "hold on, i am looking for it" and so on, Another example, When u complain to the clinic rep about your results, (right or wrong it doesnt really matter, but espessially when the patient is right) the clinic rep should never reply by telling you "Are you an idiot ? If you dont see the difference you are blind" becouse apart from being completely rude and unproffesional, he thinks that you are an idiot becouse you complained about the product you purchased (hair transplant), so in the eyes of an intelligent human being, this shows a complete idiotic behaviour from the clinic rep, since the clinic rep is unable to realize the condition that the unhappy ht patient is being going through (low yield, bad scarring, loss of precious grafts, waist of money, need for a repair etc) although as ht patient himself, he should be Aware of all these things in the first place. Another example is when u ask the clinic rep to send you the photos and videos he has of you, Obviously the clinic rep, must send these files to the patient, for the simple reason that these pics since they show the patient, do not belong to the clinic nor to the rep, and its the patient's right to have them without any arguments. How diffucult is for the clinic rep to understand, that since (for example) i am asking my photos and videos that he possess becouse i allowed him to take, which they show ME and not him or anyone else, he has the right to send them upon request ? How diffucult is for the clinic rep to realize that if I (for example) dont have the right to possess MY photos and MY video, that they happen to show MY head, he doesnt have the right to possess them either, or since I allowed him to take them, Its MY right to receive them upon MY request. So if you want to be a clinic rep, make sure you read the above "Guide" - it might help solve peoples problems, or at least not creating more..

you are SO wrong for one more time.

A good job is the one that grows over 90% , that is natural, and that it doesnt contain donor complications. So untill you get this or the opposite, nothing can be called a good or a bad job, especially in the first days post op..

great stuff man. congrats

great stuff. he had great hair even before the HT also. this factor *the pre existing hair" always plays a key role to the final outcome.

i am not getting you . you mean what ??

Hey lorenzo. I ll tell u what. Instead of going back to the clinic for pics, why dont u make your own photos, out in the natural light, from all corners, they way i do them ? Its really easy thing to do, the sun must not hit the scalp, just natural light instead of room light. Its really an easy task. IMO i dont mind whether u will make more pics or not, but since u said u will, why going back to the clinic and not making your own pics ?

i saw Megatron;s pics and i think this. that for the number of grafts used it should be thicker. i also see that the artisty in the left temple is not good, becouse the transition between the hairline and the temple is like having a sharp corner which should have been worked in another way for smoother blending

are u talking to me about megatron pics ? if u do show me the link and i will comment after seeing the pics, but when the time comes, u will also comment on MY pics ok ?

Well i voted for someone that hadnt had work with. (Rahal) Regarding polls let me tell u something. When people go and vote for president, the one who gets elected is the one who gets the majority of votes. This doesnt mean he is the best, history has proven that so many times. As to why he was elected by the majority of the voters, many factors can play, for example. Campaign based on misleading statements, Fake promises before the elections that couldnt be delivered after The stupidity of the voters.

Are you saying that i shouldnt have brought up the obvious FACT that the lightening / hair style was different pre and post op ? Becouse if you do, you are indorsing that pre op pics must be presented with different hair style and lightening than post op, which isnt really a realistic way of evaluating before and after results. So unless you see me writing that someone is purposely deceitful, stop making assumptions whether i am suggesting things u imagine, and make sure you read my post again carefully.

Sorry lorenzo but i disagree with this comment 100%. What kind of "agenda" are you talking about. The before / after pictures that YOU posted, do not have the same lightening, hair style conditions. I simply observed it and mentioned it.

lorenzo if u are happy with your results thats all it matters. One observation though, Your pre op hairstyle has a part in the middle and the hair is combed half on the left and half on the right side. The after pics have a forward "combover" style, which renders the preop - postop comparison a bit unfair since the forwardish combing style tends to make things better than they are, while your pre op comb style tends to make things worse than they are. Also the presense of lightening in the pre op pics, is clearly evident, while the in the after pics the light is much less evident, You can clearly identify the lighting difference even from the colour of the blue wall. see how brighter the blue wall is, in the before pics, and how darker is in the after pics. the more light the thinner the hair shows. the darker the thicker... thats why before and after pics must always be under same lightening conditions and same hair length and hair style Just an observation..

looking good..

I really do hope that u arent implying that this "poster" was me or something ? Becouse whatever i have to say, i say it by my own nickname (not anonumously) and behind this nickname you happen to know my full details (Full name, adress etc). dont you ? First of all, i never asked why Fingers Crossed took down his pics. that is his own decision. My questions where regarding Phil malscalpen case, which they have been left unanswered. So lets say that u never saw my question up to now. I accept that. But obviously now you have seen it. If your comment was meant just for him, then why it wasnt sent by pm or email ? However your comment was made in a public forum with title (By and For Hair Loss Patients), in a thead that Phil created for the posters, so the "my comment was meant for him" really doesnt stand, becouse i do happen to be a hair loss patient myself (as the forum title states) Forum posters have the right to ask questions dont they ? Becouse by saying "isn't really any of your business" its like denying posters/patients to make questions, furthermore denying then to participate in discussions (unless they participate the way you like), furthermore adopting a point of view in which a forum (Which stands for "Content being generated by the user base") must only have questions/posts only from the Patient who's results are being presented in the specific thread, and any other should just watch and not post/ask "becouse it aint his bussiness" and i have a feeling that this is not what the Forum management wants. But when you (or other clinic reps) are posting results and other people commeting/ asking questions, you do not reply to them by saying "isn't really any of your business", do you ? Becouse if its not our bussiness, then why are you posting them ? Obviously you are wrong here. Yes i Do have a problem. And i will tell you why. Becouse the same patient Phil, (Unless Dr. Hasson had also another patient who happened to be using the nickname Phil Malscalpen) on another forum he wrote. So based on what you say, and based on what Dr. Hasson said to the patient, the "but I'll tell you that he had a very big problem with is hairline looking unnatural because of his plug hairline from so long ago." doesnt really stands at all, if you take a look at the above quote from Phill, there is a huge contradiction dont u think ? While i do apologize to Bill for replying in the thread regarding Phil, while this thread is about Fingers crossed, i had to , becouse Joe didnt reply to Phil's thread instead he replied here. For the Forum Management. As i said before Forums are sites where "the user base generates the content". The user base has to follow the forum rules, nobody denies that. On the other hand any forum owner wants to have a good user base in order to produce good and valid content, furthermore producing a Good Quality Forum. The forum user base needs the respect of the owner, after all, its the user base that produces most of the content and not the forum owners nor the clinic reps. Due to the nature of how things really are in the HT Industry, i am really sure that the Forum Management wants constructive discussions that tend to inform other patients for the better (assuming they are based on facts and not in false or unexistent claims), and not to have questions or important issues being left unanswered or unexplained. As far as posters do not insult others or do not break the forum rulles, the Management should indorse the reps answering important questions (even the difficult ones), should allow the user base to submit questions and / or critisism in cases where things simply didnt go as well as they should have been, becouse i am really sure that the Forum owners do not want people proceeding into such expensive life lasting surgeries, unless all questions or issues are well explained in details, including cases that unfortunately can not be characterized as "success stories" thanks

I am not sure i understand the expression "put your money where your mouth is" and what the meaning of it is, maybe you can explain to me, but the way i see it is that u are being somewhat disturbed with the fact that my posts are "irrelevant" . What makes u think that my post was irrelevant ? becouse the post had to do with Megatron's post wondering why h&w isn't willing and isn't comfortable to discuss less than optimal results ? Becouse i had also answered questions. So if my post was irrelevant, so was Megatron's. So it had nothing to do with my case but with the fact that i am disturbed (and not angry) becouse questions arent being answered from clinic reps, who btw are obliged to answer to questions and not to avoid the "diffucult" ones Are we allowed to ask questions or not ? And since you are disturbed that i am asking questions, are you also disturbed when questions arent being answered by clinic reps ? As far as my story (which has nothing to do with my post in this thread) i will probably meet my doctor soon, and after that i will post it.