lost my swagger

you dont play the victim card, you accuse others of such... sorry for the confusion ronny... thana, i wrote a long reply to your last couple posts then because my comp cord was not connected it did not go through and i lost the whole thing you are right, you accused ME of trying to paint GIR as a victim, which i think is is silly but hey.... you say you are just stating the facts of the case as you see it... thats fine, i actually feel im doing the same...your right for being pissed at the comment i made about feller being your doc, i got rid of it BEFORE i read your last post believe it or not... i should really proof read my posts whan im running on only emotions...but i seems in past situations we have been involved in you post with a less dr driven tone, i dont know how else to say it. i very well could be exaggerating the differences im talking about.. i know your a giant help to PATIENTS on this site, we all do i understand that the concept of the ILLUSION of density is discussed on this forum, but here we have a photographic evidence and instead of posters seeing it for what it is the act as if GIRs picures are meaningless since its POSSIBLE to style his hair better... not it changes ther FACT that density in the transplanted area IS lacking...... for refrence THANA and ron, AS IM POSTING THIS the last post i read from this thread was thanas that he posted at 7:39 so i dunno what else has been said and because i work graves and type slow i cant go back and forth more tonight, but if need be ill reply to whatever tomorrow..... ron-- glad your happy, if you want to provide me a link to your pics or whatever sure id love to see them and again i was not saying that YOU play a victim, but rather that you accuse others of doing such for merely expressing their displeasure over their own situation, as if you feel they are not allowed or that YOU in their shoes, would handle the situation "right", but hey were all different.... and your right. im not gonna go back and find you 3 examples of you doing this... but that does not take away from the fact that my eyes have seen it..... congrats on your HT progress... GO!!! H@W!!!!!!whos with me?

john malloy, you are not the only person who comes to share their not so good experience, and trust me you are not the first poster to be labeled 'negative'..... it seems its common practice on here to label guys like you negative, or my personal "favorite" is when the posters really turn on you and start labeling you a "victim"... RonJ is a great example of a poster who uses the victim card when one is doing nothing more than RIGHTFULLY sharing their concern about their situation. either way i dont really care.. alot of posters are afraid to mix it up, or dis agree with guys like thanatopsis or RonJ because they are SOOOO good with words, seriously the vocab with those guys is enviable. and as alot of you know RonJ is never wrong in his mind and NEVER stops beating posters down with his articulate opinions.... ever..... ever..... aint nobody throwing pitty parties here thana, all im trying to do is my best to make sure cases like this happen less and less...and if they DO happen, which as you, GIR, john Malloy, aaron1234, the emperor, and and many others know to well that they DO happen, that changes be made..that PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION. i dont care if the changes come from the indusrty itself, the DR. himself or the posters here.. WHATEVER!! as long as some change or progress is taking place so that a SHIFT is made where the people who come to sites like this seeking TRUTH and answers about this indusrty and this procedure ACTUALLY GET IT.... in all of its forms. simply saying that the procedure is risky and to do research is not enough...

THANATOPSIS--ask GIR about his "more natural" head of hair.. i read a post from him on another forum where he talks about how unnatural NOT JUST HE feels about his look but the feedback his friends/familiy gave him about his situation.... im harping on HIS SITUATION ONLY, as i see it... i guess i could ask you why your trying to create such a lopsided view point yourself, as you are trying pretty hard to point out that its the POSSIBLE loss of native hair, and the sloppy styled pics that are making his result look less than stellar..maybe the underlining point here IS THAT YOU YOURSELF COULD TAKE PICTURES OF YOUR OWN TRANSPLANT THAT SHOW HOW FLAWED IT IS TOO. it pisses me off that people dont want to understand that this procedure under ANYONES skilled hand OBV has fundamental flaws that are to seldom talked about... then we ACTUALLY GET photographic evidence that all that can be done is illusion, and everyone makes excuses for what they are seeing, and alot of these excuses lean in the direction of the beloved DR???? these excuse clear the dr?? what?? GIR is the one who has to live with his situation, he is the one who must make the tough decisions for himself not.. NOT feller....this is NOT about being a victim bro. this is REALLY what GIR is facing... what dimension do i live in? cause i dont like it and i want out....

bspot--"mad" prob was an elementary word for me to use but there is NO doubt a different reaction from alot of posters depending on the dr being discussed.. its annoying to me.. this "credit" you believe certain clinics should be allowed does GIR absolutely ZERO good and he is who we are discussing here.. he is the patient at hand..looking at the big picture lessens GIRs value in some ways IMO. also you make note that feller was kind enough to post this for us, as if we should thank him.. i dis agree... dr feller posted this AT THE PATIENTS request.. over on HLH GIR simply did it himself...i really dont see how credit should be given to the dr for simply posting something that he VERY LIKELY KNEW was going to 'hit the net' anyways... yes GIR is a repair patient, but so would i be apparently because i went to bosley and recieved a pluggy, thin hairline and front third... if a dr elects to take my money and tell me that the area can be thickened he has a responsibility IMO to hold up his end of the bargin.. you can talk about further NATIVE hairloss all you want but the TRANSPLANTED AREA to me shows little improvement if you ask me... how about all this "transplants should stand on their own talk" we always hear from your side of the pond?... so the rules change if you have had previous work apparently.. is this what your saying? dr feller is not responsible for this outcome because it was another dr who first worked on GIR??? if this is the case why do we, as a site, keep sending all these "repair" guys over to YOU at SMG or to feller.... if things dont turn out the patient has no valid complaints it seems.. all while the DR is defended and let off the hook thanks to his reputation alone?? bspot-- you also make note that Dr feller will "100% take care of the situation" and "do the best to clear up the issue"......... are you suggesting that you believe that Dr feller will compensate GIR in some way?? if so how?? discount on a future procedure? or flat cash back.. i HIGHLY doubt feller would consider the second, so really all were looking at Bspot is THIS: 'well GIR, i know things did not work out like we had hoped, so if you want to TRY ANOTHER RISKY PROCEDURE WITH ZERO GUARANTEES, ill do it a little cheaper than i usually do'.....hmmm ...thanks?....... is this what you mean when you say that GIR will be taken care of?.... dr feller has shown in previous threads and now this one that he is MORE than comfortable with this OUTCOME for GIR, and he does so with stubborness that is unmatched from any other dr ive even seen post here.. so why would a doc who who time and time again comes off as someone who never fails his patients throw a bone GIRs way... and honestly if he did id still be cautious as to what bone he was throwing anyway..

hilarious to me the differences from our little community when results like this come from "top" docs as oppose to if this guy went to a percieved hack, or bad clinic..... since its feller, we can all point out RIGHTFULLY SO that a transplant is an illusion for most of us... Bspot said exactly this in his post above.he is right.. Dr feller said that HE is "proud" of the result and the photos speak for themselves... he then makes note of how styling is PARAMOUNT just to create a simple ILLUSION...he is also correct... hair transplants ARE FACTUALLY one thing, yet marketed to us as another, yes even on this site.... this is crap ive been saying for a long time, things that got me my lable from alot of you as a 'negative' poster. there are a MILLION exuses and variables that can be used to explain EVERY failed hair transplant case.. and these reasons somtimes but not always act as a crutch to fall back on for the dr... 'errr, scarring in the recip'... 'errrr, bad phisiology'..... these excuses are only validated by you guys when its a Dr you all care about and love.....i see this SAME reaction from the posters on another forum where GIR has posted his pics..... its sad because GIR want unbias feedback from real guys but mostly all he gets its how its HIS fault for showing us his situation when styled LIKE FELLERS PRE OP.... its HIS fault and he MUST have put product in his hair right??? no spex, he has now said NO PRODUCT... its HIS fault that he had previous procedures right?? WELL LET ME ASK YOU ALL SOMETHING!! DID DR. FELLER STILL WORK ON HIM?? YES, SO OBVIOUSLY THE DR FELT THE SCARRING WASNT BAD ENOUGH THAT HE COULDNT TAKE GIRs MONEY... YET WHEN THINGS END UP "NOT SO STELLAR", YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT DR FELLER WILL ABSOLUTELY BRING UP THAT GIR HAS RECIP SCARRING...its convenient.. what i dislike worse is how so many of you allow yourselves to be spoon fed these same excuses EVERY TIME a case like this pops up from docs were all supposed to love just so you can keep on believing whole heartedly in your "top" guys and the illusional 'miracles' they show you they can produce.... all you guys would be telling GIR how sorry you feel for his situation and trying to pick him up emotionally had he posted these results saying he went to a crappy clinic... then you would point him in the direction of H@W, Feller, or SMG so that they could "FIX" his situation................ ok guys, your plan B didnt work for GIR so whats next huh????? I GOT IT!!!! lets blame GIRs phisiology or something, OR lets get mad at him because he exposes his ACTUAL WORKED ON AREAS, instead of combing over his hair pretty for us all, even though we always ask for thorough documentation..... believe it or not this post of mine is much more of a slam on how we as posters ALLOW, this forum, our place of gathering to find TRUTH to be manipulated, and LESS about the actual dr in question... i feel for GIR here, after all, while his dr will be sleeping quite well its GIR who is not as happy with his decision as he had hoped going in...... in time this case will sink and fade, just as they all do and be replaced with several, WELL COMBED, results illutrating the ILLUSIONAL importance that both dr feller, and Bspot are speaking about, and all of you guys can go back to feeling more comfotable about the life changing decision your wrestling with.

couple things.. 1... dr feller, i LOVE when you say STYLING IS EVERYTHING WITH A HAIR TRANSPLANT....... you are correct, sad that not everyone undergoing these procedures today is made aware of this fact. 2.... i do NOT think GIR has said that his 'after' is with WET hair... so speculating seems pointless... 3. thana-- givin your wording about GIRs "horror" pic that he posted i take it you feel as though GIR set out to provide the WORST possible photo of his situation to illustrate his case... while there is maybe some validity to that im curious how GIRs pic is ANY different to the pre op pictures that dr feller took.. or any other HT doc for that matter... they ALL(some go way to far) take pre op pics with the hair looking its absolute worst, would you not agree?? i see feller all the time parting hair certain ways or pinning up hair to reveal the the 'problem' areas with his patients pre op pics...... all GIR has done is the same thing with his post op.. he has kept it consistant..and GIRs "problem areas" show very little improvment UNLESS combed in ONE particular style... it makes no difference to me if GIR has lost native hair or not(which really cant be determined anyway), this was not a successful transplant...GIR is confined to the ONE style that can make his hair look decent... and the wind better not be blowing or he looses that look aswell...

take a look at dr fellers pic above(that Bill posted) to me it seems if you simply MESS the hair it will absolutely 'open up' density wise.. all 'gettingitright' has done differently is removed the comb forward style.. this is a CLASSIC case of how pictures can mislead and be easily manipulated... i would bet my left testee that if any of us were to see Gettingitright in person we would agree that his density is severely lacking..at best i bet he can do little more than make it look 'Passable' when styled correctly. im so glad that gettingitright posted his pic, AFTER everyone got a chance to say how 'amazing' the result was..because it is not.... he is right to have concerns, his result is no doubt NOT what he expected, NOT at all what he was hoping for, and NOT what he was told he could expect...... ps...im not sure a mere 1500 more grafts will get him where he wants to be either... perhaps another doc would be a better choice. IMO a larger session(if possible) is needed if you want acceptable density... all the best 'gettingitright'

So you think charging 800 dollars for an unprovan treatment with no photographic evidence is alright? i guess its up to the readers and lurkers to decide how they feel about fellers intentional lack of response.... some here just love siding with the "top" docs.. some go the opposite direction.. it is funny to me tho that some can view JJs post to feller like HE is in the wrong or that HE is some sort of bad guy for raising questions.. or hes whats wrong with this place. it seems to me that to few of you realize the industy we are dealing with here..... for better or worse feller is a part of this indusrty... infact forums like this were essentially CREATED OUT OF THE DISPICABLE, GREEDY, DESRTRUCTIVE force that was and is the HAIR TRANSPLANT INDUSRTY..we as patients demanded better, because lives were being hurt badly. has the indusrty gotten better in the last 30 years? absolutely.. and places like this have played their part.. WE ALL KNOW ABOUT FELLERS ability because of THIS place. we have a better idea who the BEST in the business are because WE ASKED TOUGH QUESTIONS, because we as patients, demanded we not be taken advantage of, or lied to.... if WE did not demand such, then the indusrty has a PROVEN TRACK record of how little it gives a s*** about us.... whatever motive JJ has behind asking this question and creating this topic should take a back seat to the fact that much of his questions are quite valid and deserve to be asked.... ask questions if you want answers.... if the source itself elects not to answer that in itself can be telling also..

bullit-- thanks for the clafification, im sorry if my tone or assumption offended. truly...like many on here, im very in touch with your story and what SMG has done for you... what i saw was 13 videos posted, 10 of wich were featuring OTHER SMG patients with links of how and where to find SMG... the other 3 vids were your terrible norton experience.. i likely got a bit to nosey on this one but i have always felt it important for new posters to know where all the poster are coming from especially those who may be compesated within the industry somehow..thanks again all the best.

this is a classic example of the dangers of deceptive marketing in this indusrty... akuma is under the impression that he can recreate and lower his hair line and it will blend perfectly with his THICK ass head of NATURAL hair... hes under the impression that he is a canidate for this, just like so many who dont know any better, and IF akuma really wanted he could find plenty of clinics who would tell him exactly what he wants to hear, take his money, scar him for life, and change the course of his ENTIRE life... akuma-- you should NOT even consider this. im telling you right now you will regret your decision. take it or leave it. but alot of guys, myself included, on here had to learn the hard way. as a result our lives have drastically been altered due to our past mistakes...... you have more hair than 99.8% of the people on this site.... be thankful you found a site where informed individuals can advise you.. many still today are not so lucky...... run away from the hair transplant idea as fast as you can, and enjoy your scar free, COMPLETELY NATURAL, full head of hair... BTW should you ever start REALLY showing signs of miniturization in your crown or top, you will regret having such a low hairline.. and to get that hairline as thick as your thinking you can get it will require a few thousand grafts, leaving you only 2-5 thousand left for the future... and IF you are lucky enough not to lose another hair your whole life you will STILL have a hard time matching your current natural density... it may take 2 procedures and many thousands of dollars, as well as 1 to 2+ years of your life spent in "down time" waiting for your new hair to come, and waiting for results that are not a guarantee in the first place..... going thru with this will NOT ease all your "hairloss?" worries... you will NOT just get the procedure and that will be the end of it, problem solved forever and ever... that scenario is largely make-believe and is a SERIOUS exception to the HT community...

dr feller is gonna do plenty of speculation into the OPs character and who feller thinks has "sent jimjohnson here to destry him".. that how feller rolls. the man has never been wrong you know that.... i will say this.. no matter who the OP is, he is not the only person out there who feels this way about fellers PRP at this point...and while i personally dont agree fully with JJ, it WOULD be nice if feller would document his PRP better like hes expressed he would... its been many months now and hes had MANY patients of whom have paid 600 to 800 bucks for this treatment... im really hoping we dont hear from feller that ALL of these guys have simply refused to share their results.

headstart-- thats SUPER FANTASTIC!!! im psyched... if i didnt know better id say this hand held device is TO GOOD TO BE TRUE, but im sure if it didnt work you would not have burned so much of your own personal time creating your account on here to help us all with your knowledge... thank you so so much and please post a link to this new product because i simply cannot wait much longer before i give my money to this company.... I GOTTA HAVE IT!! i dont care what it costs!.........

Bspot-- i appreciate the response... i also agree that repair guys(like aaron1234) should not be included in my question. they are a completely different catagory.. BTW im looking foward to seeing what you guys can do with aaron1234 because his situation so closely mirrors my own..... i understand what you are saying about FUE wavering the line, but let me use this guy as an example http://hair-restoration-info.c...=491108824#491108824 his level of loss(at this point) is very minimal IMO, and his native is thick... but lets assume in ten years he begins to show signs of SERIOUS loss...what im implying is NOT a far stretch and very well could happen... do you agree??? yes or no.... the lower hairline he has now has cut his options drastically IMO as well as ensuring that, should his hairloss progress he will infact have ZERO choice but to have many future procedures as his created hairline OBV will not be a natural look without the native hair behind it... is this patient aware that in this senario STRIP will be the best option for him? or do you feel you can "keep up with his progression via FUE only? also quickly lets take a look at PharmD's recent procedure http://hair-restoration-info.c...21087683/m/934106824 all one must do is look at the 2 topdown preop pics to see he will indeed have progressive thinning in the crown as well as all throughout the top... while its obv that you have given him a higher hairline is pharm under the impression that FUE alone will tackle his future loss?? actually, are YOU under this impression of do you believe he will require a strip procedure.. because as pharm continues to lose the hair behind his transplant(which IMO is only a matter of time) his FUE alone will obv not be enough to sustain a 'natural' look, or any kind of natural looking balding pattern.... would you mind shedding a little light on what SMGs future plans are with pharmds case aswell?? thanks

bullitnut-- i found a video on youtube of this patient. your name was the poster of the video.. i get the impression that you are now employed by SMG as you seem to be promoting patients of theirs now..or have you been working with them for sometime and i simply missed it..... thanks http://www.youtube.com/user/bullitnut1

bspot--actually to be more specific with my question, what % of SMGs patients are 26 or younger, and could you give some basic criteria as to why SMG feels these patients are suitable for a hair transplant.. thanks

bspot---- how many 20 somethings do you guys turn away?? or better yet do you have any ACCURATE numbers on what % of your patients are in their 20s? we have seen you guys do hairline FUEs on NW2s, and now its apparent you are giving it a shot on diffuse thinners also.... b spot-your post was the 1st in this thread to be useful, IMO. other than that its mostly filled with replies from guys(knowingly, or unknowingly) steering the OP directly into SMGs lap, IMO... i know what a good rep you are and the sound advice i see you give, and its your words that make me "like" you...but how are we to truly know that when it comes to 20 somethings SMG truly is as ethical as all these posters say?? alot of them have no first hand knowledge of SMG.... are there any young posters on this forum that have actually been turned away from SMG because they felt you were not a suitable candidate?..

this poor guy likely made a big mistake.. he had better pray hes the first person to ever STOP the balding process, cause it looks to me like an outrageous amount of grafts used to foolishly lower a hairline and its STILL not very thick... if that is what Rassman does with 7000+ grafts its easy for me to see why that poor young guy who THOUGHT he was winning a life changing free transplant on that tv show got such a terribly thin outcome also.... terrible future planning, i dont care if its what the patient wanted.OBV patients dont always know whats in their best interest. the doc should have declined... instead he just kept taking his money 4, count em, 4 different times..your a saint doc, bravo......... to top it off we get that deceptive band that pulls the hair straight back again.... MY HT hair looks like that when i pull it back and my HT sucks.... how was this guy ever highly regarded in this industry?? anyone??

and one more thing... you will have ONE.... count them, ONE styling option...the "comb back"

ok, your a NW7. you yourself state that you have been quoted as having 3500 grafts available... you yourself understand that you very well could continue to experience donor thinning... right?? the reality is this... 3500 to 4000 grafts of a NW7 can get you nothing more than a decent conservative (and still thin ESPECIALLY in direct sunlight or overhead lighting found in restaurants or just about anywhere actually)hairline with decent coverage over no more than half your entire balding area.. you will be able to to do little to NOTHING for your crown, and it likely would not be worth it cosmetically even if you could get the crown.... not to mention you will have a liner scar that will be visible should you elect to go back to the shaved look.... there is your reality, and its your decision as to if that look and lack of styling options is worth it to you... personally i think you can guess what i would do in your shoes... you have a hot wife, with kids, you have a life. your fully functional and your hairloss while it suck does not cripple you.. the risks BY FAR outweigh what you could potentially gain with that graft count... the homeruns you may have seen on NW7s all have similarities that dont seem to be present with your case... the #1 being that they ALL have had 8 to 10 THOUSAND+ grafts moved over multiple procedures... anyone why feels you sould go for it.. ought to rethink their position IMO... that said its your head and your gamble so should you take the gamble go with hasson @ wong.

jmorgan-- any chance the results your referring to can be found online? if so, any chance i could get a link? i myself am a diffuse thinner and would love to see examples... your decision to move foward with a dr with a strong reputation is a wise one. and SMG obv has a very sound reputation... i very much believe that your dr will do the very best he possibly can to get you a result that will satisfy you.. i like Bspot he does an excellent job representing his clinic IMO...and while SMG seems to be on the better side of the industry ethically, that alone should not qualify them as a TOP FUE clinic just yet IMO.. on this and other forums ALREADY im seeing poster after poster telling every FUE potential patient they ought to go to SMG.. and i just cant help but ask myself why?? what are we basing it off of?? the immediate post op pics they post that look clean?the few 6 month results we have seen on a couple NW2, or just the fact that they produce quality strip work?... i hate to come off like im bashing here because i like SMGs approach to FUE, im just not sure i agree with how fast they have apparently elevated themselves to FUE expertise in the minds of so many posters so soon.

yeah, no kidding!... anyone who has spent ANY decent amount of time on this site ought to be smart enough to realize that TC17s presence on this forum is overwhelmingly positive..we should all care about the good of the site, and right OR wrong, TC17s points about potential shilling are more than valid given the industry we are talking about here.... none of you are perfect, setting me aside of course, so i just cant believe some of you have felt it necessary to crucify a good poster over something so very minor..

that would be nice. have there even been very many final results posted from SMG??? ive seen alot of IMMEDIATE post ops on low NWs tho.. but jmorgan is a DIFFUSE thinner... any cases posted on here or other links where i could see a diffuse thinner FUE result from SMG? im seriously asking here because SMG has been able to move itself into nearly everyones "top" FUE considerations in the US quite quickly.... i remember when SMG just started dabbling with FUE not long ago.. but long enough.... i was gone for a while so maybe i missed all the final results the clinic has been posting that show their FUE consistancy and overall results.... any links to help me out? or are we all still just assuming SMG will produce great FUE because they have an excellent STRIP track record?

i agree hairadv, i applaude this forum for allowing the open discussion they do. anyone know how things are for UHT at this point....after his recent one sided HT that feller decided was the best course of action

...edit..oops

Bill my opinion that every single solitary doctor has "plenty" of unsatisfied patients is comes from nothing other than my 4 years of searching the online forums as well as my personal experience... thru my time ive found myself in contact with several ht patients via phone, e-mail, PM,... we have shared experiences views and opinions, and had candid conversations... make no mistake, i do believe that HTs can be the "right" option for some... but a question i think you should ask yourself is WHY people on this site may develop these unrealistic expectations you speak of...even people who surf this and other sites come back post op and express that their result was not what they had expected.. the express that their outcome lacks density or is "thinner" than they thought... im not saying this will always be the case but this is NO DOUBT a concern than anyone who spends enough time on here will see pop up time and time again....without saying things that may get me into trouble ill say i believe the industry does more than its part to help perpetuate these unrealistic(in many cases) goals............. i know, i know Bill, you feel the top docs dont do this as they are "ethical"....... but thats where we disagree... i believe they do it, just on a MUCH softer, and perhaps less life shattering scale..it does not, in my view make it ethical, all i see it as is the lesser of two evils. and i DONT BELIEVE A DOCTOR DESERVES THE TITLE "ETHICAL" SIMPLY BECAUSE HE GIVES MORE TRUTH THAN A BUTHCER.. these dotors that we all put in our the infamous "TOP 5"(for now anyway) all work on guys in their 20's and some have ZERO problem lowering hairlines aswell... something we all just LOVE TO KILL ARMANI ABOUT dont we?... these top docs.. these SKILLED docs are in no way in the same class as the MANY still practicing butchers out there......and i want to make it clear i believe there is a tremedous difference between the two.... i dont believe every clinic covers up their bad results online, though i do absolutely believe it does happen still..and these doctors try VERY hard to maintain their online status as it makes them quite wealthy. there are deals made and and behind closed door agreements than i feel are more prominent than the majority of us posters and lurkers are led to believe, again that statement nothing more than what i believe to be my well informed opinion. i dont have any charts, studies, grafts, or numbers to support what ive said in this post or my previous one... if thats a quallification i must have inorder to make the statments ive made then i give you permission to edit accoringly Bill...just let me know what and why if possible....