THE TRUTH

Glad to hear you're doing well bro. Definitely an easy fix for the chin. 100ish beard grafts should do it. 👍 Try the straightener, comb your hair forwards, take a few pics and let us know how it goes. All the best and good luck bro 🙏

Sure they are not in the industry. But the advice they give to young folks is the absolute hairloss Gospel. Trust me Mike MANY people could have completely avoided all these suffering, trauma, emotionnal stress, money spent had they started treatment early in the process.

Another thing I have to say is -Your hairline has been rebuilt very nicely with only 600 grafts. Objectively speaking, looks nice and natural. 👍 -I took a close look at your beard extraction pattern. While I do agree 100% with Melvin about the fact that this is basically a trade-off, I must say they performed the extractions way too high slightly ABOVE the chin. Who performed your extractions ? Was it Dr. Arika or the techs ? Beard extractions should never be performed that high. It should always be below the chin unless the patient asks specifically for it (which is rarely the case...) I am a bit surprised that they did that. Had you discussed that particular aspect before consultation ? Let's be honest....Sometimes the extractions s*** at Eugenix... I have seen 2 cases of botched temples from theirs technicians on this forum. That being said, your slight beard patchiness is not the end of the world. You can always ask them to repair it for free by implanting some beard grafts from below the chin back into the thinned-out area.

I read your thread man. I feel really sorry for you. Honestly. Androgenic Alopecia is a curse. I feel ya and I can relate to your story 150%. People often criticize Kevin Mann and Derek from MorePlates because they preach in favor of Finasteride/Dutasteride... But at the end of the day getting ahead of hairloss before it gets ahead of you by jumping on 5AR inhinitors and AA very early on is the ONLY way to win the hairloss battle and not let it ruin your life in the long term... Once you are far gone and start playing catch up by getting multiple surgeries, depleting your donor, spending thousands of dollars then it becomes extremely consuming... Both financially and emotionally. The biggest mistake most of us make is starting Finasteride way too late. I saw your pictures. Doesn't look bad considering your starting point and your limited donor supply. I think the coverage is there but it just does not blend very well. Your beard seems a lot curlier than your hair. Like Melvin said, using a straightener is probably the answer goo. Try to straighten those beard grafts in the morning and then comb it forwards, that way it should allow you to get better visual coverage. You could gain A LOT by doing so. I think the hairs grew in nicely on the crown. It's just a matter of how to optimize them and use them strategically. You know what I'm sayin bro. I'm curious to see Pradeep's and Arika's take on all this. I understand they were working with a very limited donor supply to begin with. So can't blame them for trying to use beard. I wish you all the best.

Yeah looks nice and solid 👍 And like you said the angles are correct too. Do you have any pre-operation picture from the angle ? I mean before your 2nd surgery

How was your result on the recipient area from Dr. Bekir ?

Not all of Couto's results are that great... Check out Belicapelli and fororecuparartupelo. There are some average results from Couto. He is a great surgeon and true artist but just because you see these cherry picked results on his youtube channel does not necessarily mean you gonna get the exact same. Keep that mind.

Actually I get why you are concerned. Like I said your donor area at the back looks on the occipital region looks fine and no need to worry about it. Your little bald patch on the LEFT temporal side is fixable. However on the last picture that you uploaded it does appear that there is a thinned out area on the RIGHT temporal side. Your surgery with HLC was 6 months ago, right ? I circled that area in red. Was this specific area already looking like that after Hattingen ? Is this the consequence of the strip ? Or did you notice it after your 2nd surgery with HLC ? You mentionned HLC extracted 500 grafts from each temporal side correct ?

Wow really sorry to hear about that Jan... Now that u uploaded your Ieft profile pic I see exactly what u talking about... Yeah the strip caused some permanent shock loss in a small area... If your 1st surgery was in 2019 and that little bald spot still hasn't recovered then chances are it's permanent Hattingen is a worldclass clinic. I always recommend them but this is another cautionnary tale that s*** happens everywhere....including in the best clinics... At least they proved they are ethical and offered to fix it for free. I understand it bothers u but the good news is your surgery was very succesful with them on the recipient area ! You were pretty damn bald my man like Norwood 5 and I saw your results on the german hairloss forum and they are amazing ! 👍 Also like I said your donor still looks fine. Since you are transitionning and no longer interested in keeping your beard hairs then why not get the remaining beard grafts below the chin transplanted into that small bald patch ? I think that just a couple hundreds grafts from the beard can help fix that pretty easily. Also that would allow you to save the remaining hairs from the donor area for further surgeries in case you need them like 15-20 years down the road even though I highly doubt you will ever need additionnal surgeries on something as strong as Estradiol + Androcur that is literally Derek's nuclear protocol. 😂 Don't rush into a 3rd surgery with HDC... Let your 2nd surgery with HLC come to a full result. Fix the little bald spot issue with Hattingen first and see how it goes from there. Your situation is by no means dramatic and there is no reason to be unhappy or depressed. All the best and good luck.

Hello Jan, I remember you from alopeziede. Just curiously did you get any significant regrowth on your native miniaturized hairs from Estrogen and Cyproterone Acetate ? I'm asking because I see more and more transgender guys on Transtimelines reddit getting SIGNIFICANT regrowth with the use of oral Estrogen, spiro and bicalutamide. Better results than most surgical hair transplants on this forum... And of course far better results than the classic Finasteride/Dutasteride + minoxidil combo.... By the way how were the results of your 2nd surgery with Dr. Bekir ? He is the newest doc at HLC and he replaced Dr. Akin. There are no reviews of his work yet so it would be interesting to see what he is capable of ! As for your donor area, it's hard to say Jan... On your before picture your hair is slightly longer so it is difficult to make an objective comparison... What do you mean specifically by "shock loss" after your first procedure at Hattingen ? Temporary shock loss of hairs around the area where the strip was taken ? I honestly don't see any of that on the pictures you provided. Sure you have reduced density at the back of the head after so many graft extractions (which is inevitable) but in my honest opinion it does not look "overharvested". Your hair is pretty short in the first picture and it looks like it's pulled upwards (after sleeping on the pillow or rubbing with your hand ?) Sever & Laura Muresanu and Dr. Cengiz (especially Dr. Muresanu) are both very experienced surgeons and I don't think they would even come close to overharvesting. I suggest you cut your hair at the exact same length as in the before picture and comb it normally so we can make a fair assessment. Ultimately if you are concerned you can always get some beard grafts or SMP into your donor in order to homogenize it. All the best

You are young and you have pretty agressive diffuse thinning. You should not rush into transplant. Definitely try medication first. Finasteride is good for maintenance although too weak to give you enough thickening. The following protocol should stabilize your loss and give you 1 out of 5 chances of thickening your native miniaturized hairs sufficiently to the point that you avoid transplant. -Dutasteride 0.5mg daily. 2.5mg is even better since it supress scalp DHT up to 90+ %. -Oral minoxidil 2.5 to 5mg daily -Topical topilutamide (fluridil- eucapil), RU58841 or CB0301 aka winlevi. Fluridil is the best option. -Nizoral ketoconazol (2-3 times per week, leave it 10min) Check out Kevin Mann & MorePlatesMoreDates. There are some more extreme drugs such as oral estradiol, spironolactone, bicalutamide that could reverse and regrow totally your miniaturized hairs but these are definitely not viable options and you should never use them unless you are looking to transition. Discuss Dutasteride & oral minox with your doctor first. Add fluridil or RU on top of it. Give it AT LEAST 6 months. If you see no regrowth then start saving for a hair transplant. Make sure you do a TON of research. Don't rush into surgery. Even some recommended clinics have subpar results. -FUT: Hasson & Wong for North America and Hattingen for Europe -FUE: Couto, Lorenzo, Zarev, Freitas, Fereira, Pinto, Ximena Vila, Bisanga are the best options for Europe For US most FUE surgeons recommended surgeons on this forum are good but a lot more expensive. By all means stay away from turkish hairmills such as Cinik, Serkan, Balwi, Cosmedica, Hair of Istanbul etc etc... They will destroy your limited donor area, give you poor growth on the recipienr area and may even destroy your native miniaturized hairs. All the best and good luck.

I agree 100% on all the doctors you mentionned. And you are right about Eugenix too. Sethi & Bansal are truly amazing on higher Norwood but some of their technicians really s***..... There were 2 cases of botched job on the temples on the forum by Eugenix's techs so I'd stick to the best package which is also as expensive as Couto or Zarev ! Pekiner's work is solid. But he and his consultant have a controversial reputation on this forum. There were 2 bad results from him on the same patient on this forum and his representative was behaving in a very strange manner post op in the thread. Also Pekiner allegedly was offering discounts to people in exchange of publishing their results on this forum...Last but not least there was another very poor job from him on the german hairloss forum when he used to work under hlc. Check out Erfahrungbericht 2× mit HLC nicht zufrieden on alopeziede. Pekiner clearly performed a botched job... But okay that was back in the day when he was still a novice.... HLC has had a significant amount of subpar results on this forum. Not terrible but mediocre. I'm not gonna repeat myself, we all know them and already discussed them many times. Check out Died on the battlefield, EvansLawrence, bloodhound, Andrei HLC, duchaine, etc etc... Not a bad clinic by any means but u can definitely find much better and consistent in Spain/Portugal for the same price. Keser is very expensive. He does only small Norwoods and does not use magnifying microscopes. He is methodical and highly involved though. He does have some good results but also some really mediocre ones... He is good for the most part but hey at 3.5€ per graft you can find MUCH better than him in my honest opinion.

I agree Tony. Gur & Turan are decent too. Ultimately it really depends on your real goal. As someone who is a Norwood 6, if your goal is to get as close as possible to achieving the illusion of normal head of hair then I'd totally forget about Turkey and go with the best of the best immediately. However, if your goal is just to get some baseline coverage on the hairline with a limited budget and realistic expectations and thus make you look less bald then yes Bicer /Gur & Turan/ Demirsoy/ Bhatti are probably all decent "budget options". But from experience, I know the first option is generally what most people are after. But again, it's up to you to decide based on your ultimate goal, budget and expectations.

David please for God Sake forget about getting FUE in Turkey.... Bicer is a decent option when your budget is limited. She seems to be a nice person and people often report she has good ethics. Her work is solid although not elite. But since you are a Norwood 6 with very advanced baldness I don't think you would benefit from getting an FUE in turkey.... FUE will deplete your donor area very quickly making it look moth-eaten and give you poor coverage on top... You need to be particularly careful when choosing your surgeon. Like Gatsby said, I think the only 2 options you should consider for FUE is A) Dr. Zarev in Sofia B) Eugenix in India Zarev is even better in my opinion when it comes to Norwood 6-7. Check out his results. Arguably the best surgeon in the world for advanced cases of baldness. Other than that, I don't think any other FUE hair transplant surgeon could give you a satisfactory result. Certainly not Demirsoy, Yaman etc.... If I were you I'd forget about Turkey. I have never seen an impressive and significant Norwood 6-7 transformation result from Demirsoy, Bicer, HLC, Yaman etc..... The other option would be to get FUT. Hattingen or Hasson & Wong is your best bet. I personnaly think FUT would be more beneficial in your particular case since it would allow to harvest more grafts with a better yield and thus result in better coverage on top. 2 well executed strip surgeries could get you significant coverage. But again it comes down to whether you are able to accept that big linear scar at the back of your head.... I'd go with Zarev or Eugenix for FUE Hattingen or Hasson & Wong for FUT

Karadeniz comes across as a nice guy on youtube. His english is good. But don't u get fooled. He does only the initial planning and opening of the channels. That' it. Just like Koray, Serkan, Balwi, Çinik, Acar and all other hairmills... With karadeniz it's hit or miss. I'll be honest I've never seen disasters from him (like completely overharvested donor areas, necrosis, infections etc...) but I've seen some really mediocre results....Like no growth at all in the recipient area. Hence u should weigh the pros and cons and make a well informed decision. I understand you're looking for a budget option with some doctor involvement who has at least some recognition in the field. I totally get it bro. 👍 But tell me tell ya I've just seen too many really subpar cases from these guys: oguzoglu, yaman, karadeniz etc.... and at the end of the day their involvement during surgery is minimal. I do agree they are somewhat better than the cheap hairmills but again it all comes down to risk vs reward ratio. When it comes to Male Pattern Hairloss, which we all know is an extremely complex and progressive genetic condition that implies working with a limited number of grafts throughout the lifetime then I think it's not worth the risk. Some people get lucky but some get screwed for life. If your hairloss is more than Norwood 3 and you get a bad FUE meaning they take out like 4000 grafts from your donor and these grafts do not grow on the recipient then my friend you may NEVER be able to achieve the illusion of full coverage on your balding areas... So that is something to take into consideration before going forward. What is your Norwood scale bro ? Have you ever had surgery before ? You should try to get it right from the first time. And even if you go with the best if the best you may not be entirely satisfied from the first time and still may need a touch a 2nd surgery if your baldness is already advanced.

Allright fair enough. But I suggest you find the bad results I am talking about from Yaman as well as from Karadeniz and ask yourself the following question: what if I become one of those guys ? What am I gonna do ? If you can't answer that question then don't go with them. Ultimately the only "budget option" I'd trust in Turkey is Bicer.

Well that's true. I have to agree... A top Bisanga result will not look much different than a top result from Vera... HOWEVER if you look statistically at for example 100 cases from Bisanga. How many great results are there with perfect donor management ? I'd say easily 70-80. How many bad results are there for 100 cases ? I think 0. At very worst there might be like 5-10 average results. Now if we look at Vera, Yaman, Karadeniz etc... How many great results are there for every 100 cases ? I'd say 20 or 30 at very best. How many average ones ? By average I mean some growth in the recipient with poor density. At least 50. How many really BAD ones with botched job, overharvesting etc... Well my friend I'd say in the 20-30 range too. So IF you are really lucky you might get a Bisanga type result for 3000-4000$....Sure that can happen. But if we look at things from a purely statistical standpoint, chances are low and again it is russian roulette. It's up to you to decide whether you are ready to take that risk. In case things turn out unlucky then there will be no possibility to restore your wasted grafts. And this time you will have to go back to a reputable place for repair... Not only will your donor be partially wasted forever but also -and more importantly - you will have to pay 3 to 5 times the initial amount to get an average repair result that you could gotten much much better had you gone to the reputable doctor in the first place. You know what I'm sayin bro ? With doctors such as Bisanga, Lorenzo etc... you are basically paying for guarantee of great long term donor management and high chances (not guarantee though...) of great result. At very worst you may get an average result and then negotiate a free touch-up which most of the reputable places do offer. With Yaman etc...you could get a great result if you are really luck but you can also get permanently destroyed for life.

Karadeniz has several bad results on this forum. Check them out. Yaman too. Actually Yaman has had reports of overharvested donor area and botched job on temples. Check out spanish youtuber tenermaspelo he has talked about these Yaman cases. I wouldn't risk Yaman & Karadeniz... Only decent "budget" options would be Bicer or Gur/Turan. They are miles away from Bisanga & Konior but solid if we consider their fair price.

Better stay away from them. Pekiner and his consultant have a controversial reputation. There were 2 bad results from him on the same patient on this forum and his representative was behaving in a very strange manner post op in the thread. Also Pekiner allegedly was offering discounts to people in exchange of publishing their results on this forum...Last but not least there was another very poor job from him on the german hairloss forum when he used to work under hlc. Check out Erfahrunhbericht 2× mit HLC nicht zufrieden on alopeziede. Pekiner clearly performed a botched job... HLC has had many subpar results on this forum. I'm not gonna repeat myself, already discussed that many times. Check out Died on the battlefield, EvansLawrence, bloodhound, Andrei HLC etc etc... Not a bad clinic but definitely not worth the money. Keser is very expensive. He does only small Norwoods and does not use magnifying microscopes. He is methodical and highly involved though. He does have some good results but also some really mediocre ones... He is good for the most part but hey at 3.5€ per graft you can find MUCH better than him in my honest opinion.

Technically it is possible. And I do like your idea. It is better to have strong coverage on top than having a bald top and a horseshoe on the sides and back... You'd basically look like John Cena. Strong coverage on top and Alopecia Totalis on the back and sides. Not a bad look imo. Better than the horseshoe for sure. However there are 2 major problems. 1) You would have to spread it over multiple procedures and choose the best surgeon to get the best possible survival rate. 2) You would need to find a reputable surgeon who agrees to perform such a procedure correctly... And I just doubt any reputable big name would accept. Maybe I am wrong. They would have you sign a consent. If you are Norwood 7 then the one and only doctor I would consider is Dr. Zarev in Sofia Bulgaria. He can almost give you the illusion of full head of hair. Price is 4€ per graft and he is amongst the best in the world if not the best for advanced Norwoods. Otherwise SMP is a good option.

Hattingen is arguably the very best in Europe for FUT. And they are world class level too. Amazing graft survival, good coverage on advanced Norwoods, great yield and good survival rate. Anyone who is beyond Norwood 4 should consider starting with FUT (instead of fue...) with an excellent clinic such as Hattingen. As for Mwamba, I remember he did not have a great reputation back in the day on the hairloss international forum. There were some slight issues with some of his results and more importantly his overall ethics. Very recently there was a very questionable result from him on the Hair Restoration Network too. Check it out. Now is he a good surgeon ? For the most part yes, Patrick Mwamba is a good doctor. I have also seen some a few amazing results from him too. But I personally think you can find MUCH better than him in that price range.... Feriduni ? To be honest I haven't researched him that extensively. I know he is recommended by most forums and considered a good surgeon by most sources. But again that doesn't mean anything. He does seem to provide good results on a pretty consistent basis but I think he is somewhat "conservative". Old school I guess. Which isn't always a bad thing of course. Also I gotta say I have never seen much from Feriduni on higher Norwoods... As far as I can remember, there were some failed cases from him published in this forum too. And the explanation he gave in regards to the failure was a bit questionable. Again same as for Mwamba, Feriduni is a good surgeon and very experienced. But you can get much better in that price range. I'd rather go with Bisanga over Mwamba, Feriduni, Lupanzula and Devroye if you are in Brussells. And if you can afford Feriduni and Mwamba then why not just go with the best of the best ? Zarev, Couto, Lorenzo, Hattingen, Bisanga Again this is just my personnal opinion based on my research.

Hahahaha.... Yes for sure this is "tragicomic" bro... No I have never been there. Just read the reports about Asmed on different hairloss forums... Just curiously bro when you decided to go with ASMED what made you go there ? Had you seen the reports of bad results and poor ethics from them prior to your surgery ?

Bhatti is controversial. I have seen some really good results from him. Not nearly as good as Pradeep Sethi from Eugenix though. But I have also seen several bad results from Dr. Bhatti too.... And there was a controversy on this forum about him. Where I would rate him on that scale ? Good question. About the same as HLC. Good for the most part. Definitely not elite though and fails do happen with him too.

As far as I know, I don't think Erdogan ever performs an entire surgery on his own. I don't think such package even exists. Maybe he used to do back in the day when he worked alone. Like 15-20 years ago. Nowadays ? No way... Erdogan is basically the same as Balwi, Serkan, Cinik etc.....you know what I'm sayin 😂😂😂 Comes in, shakes your hand, draws your hairline. Talks with you for 5min then says farewell to your donor area and sends you to his techs for playing russian roulette. 🔥 That's it. Don't expect more. At very best, he may perform the opening of the channels if you pay a bit more. Koray is not a hair transplant surgeon anymore...He's a businesman and head of the mill. He spends his time building his marketing and going around the world to attend some conferences lol While his uneducated teams of techs are ruining people's lives... That is sad. But that is the TRUTH. That being said, can u still get a good result with Koray ? Yes sure. But is russian roulette. Literally russian roulette. To be fair, I'd say with Koray you have A) 80% chance to get just an average result (some growth in the recipient area but with lack of density). Average lowcost hairmill type of result. Not too bad. Not too good. B) 10% of getting a really bad result. Poor growth, wasted grafts and there have also been reports of overharvesting. C) 10% chance of getting a great result like those that are strategically cherry picked on Asmed's youtube channel as well as on Belicapelli by the administrator named Bola who works with Erdogan.

Kevin Mann is the absolute GOAT. That's all I ever had to say.